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China slams EU on Tibet statement; world protests mount (Roundup)
Mar 31, 2008, 14:11 GMT
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Older Talkback
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The western world is blinded by its media, hope that we were able to see more facts on the event. The tibetan religion is out of date and in this aspect, I'm completely a supporter of the Chinese authority to ban their ritual sacrifices with human lives and the torturing of their believers.
Beijing view the situation so seriously in Lhasa and the Tibetan provinces that a special security coordination unit, the 110 Command Center, has been established in Lhasa with the primary objective of suppressing the disturbances and restoring full central government control.
The center appears to be under the direct control of Zhang Qingli, first secretary of the Tibet Party and a President Hu Jintao loyalist. Zhang is also the former Xinjiang deputy party secretary with considerable experience in counter-terrorism operations in that region.
Others holding important positions in Lhasa are Zhang Xinfeng, vice minister of the Central Public Security Ministry and Zhen Yi, deputy commander of the People's Armed Police Headquarters in Beijing.
The seriousness with which Beijing is treating the present unrest is further illustrated by the deployment of a large number of important army units from the Chengdu Military Region, including brigades from the 149th Mechanized Infantry Division, which acts as the region's rapid reaction force.
According to a United Press International report, elite ground force units of the People's Liberation Army were involved in Lhasa, and the new T-90 armored personnel carrier and T-92 wheeled armored vehicles were deployed. According to the report, China has denied the participation of the army in the crackdown, saying it was carried out by units of the armed police. 'Such equipment as mentioned above has never been deployed by China's armed police, however.'
Air support is provided by the 2nd Army Aviation Regiment, based at Fenghuangshan, Chengdu, in Sichuan province. It operates a mix of helicopters and STOL transports from a frontline base near Lhasa. Combat air support could be quickly made available from fighter ground attack squadrons based within the Chengdu region.
The Xizang Military District forms the Tibet garrison, which has two mountain infantry units; the 52nd Brigade based at Linzhi and the 53rd Brigade at Yaoxian Shannxi. These are supported by the 8th Motorized Infantry Division and an artillery brigade at Shawan, Xinjiang.
Tibet is also no longer quite as remote or difficult to resupply for the Chinese army. The construction of the first railway between 2001 and 2007 has significantly eased the problems of the movement of large numbers of troops and equipment from Qinghai onto the rugged Tibetan plateau.
Other precautions against a resumption of the long-term Tibetan revolts of previous years has led to a considerable degree of self-sufficiency in logistics and vehicle repair by the Tibetan garrison and an increasing number of small airfields have been built to allow rapid-reaction units to gain access to even the most remote areas.
Not sure what the previous comment is suggesting. the only withholding of facts is thanks to the chinese government that has insisted on censoring the news to their own country, and all but closing off tibet from free reporting to the rest of the world. As to old beliefs, I'm not sure where ritual sacrifice comes into play with Buddhists. You may want to check your sources of info!
In all honesty, I hope that the whole world begins to get disgrundled enough to start withdrawing support for the olympis if the Chinese continue to move in the direction they are headed. It's time they begin a dialogue with the western world if they want our respect so badly. I'm interested to see when they will realize that they need to listen to others. So much of this could be very easily solved if they would simply listen to others.
Yew you are entitled to your opinion but your an absolutely wrong about what you are saying. China is an oppressive state and has been for a long time. You should study up on their internal policies regarding human rights before you speak again, and you should consider yourself lucky enough to be able to access this computer network and speak your mind without being arrested. In other words what China is doing is wrong, Tibetans are not even of Chinese descent and the vast majority of them are peaceful, life-loving people that deserve the freedoms that you and I take for granted.
what is so outdated about the tibetan religion?
why should one not protest the chinese government's all out attempts to DESTROY a culture, a race, a people?
beating and killing monks! come on - china can do better. what is so threatening about buddhist monks, falun gong, etc?
(oh, and how is tibet a part of china?)
YEW: At least the western world has a (paritally) free media, and is not just a tool of the state.
The monks are being sacrificied and being tortured. Strange how you think they are to blame, instead of the ones murdering and torturing them. Yeah! Blame the victim!
Even if this was 'just an interal affair', no state has the right to do this to its own people (or that of any other state, which Tibet actually was for most of its history).
The Tibetans have been victims of a cultural and baseless genocide sponsored by the Chinese government for years. The religion is one of compassion and kindness. To suggest human sacrifice as part of the religious practice of Tibetan religion either Buddhism or Bon, is both a demonstration of total ignorance and slander. There is no human, animal or any ritual sacrifice of living beings that is part of the Tibetan practice. To suggest that the religion is dated is to have no concept of the advanced philosophical perspectives advanced by this distinguished culture. It is very dad that the Chinese people are blinded by their own suffering to such a degree that they cannot figure out a way to live in harmony and peace with their Tibetan bretheren. The current course of Chinese action is reprehensible. Save Tibet and march to help them attain a meaningful independence with very real links to the Chinese government as the Dalai Lama has continued to ask for, for many years. Don't be mislead by negative and ignorant propaganda. Do the research. The EU is correct is making the statements it is making. Support them and continue to make the Chinese answer for the humanitarian crisis it is inflicting upon the Tibetan people.
'Tianmen Square - site of the bloody June, 1989 crackdown on Chinese reform activists'
haha, I think the Chinese media should really learn from their western peers this time-How to make the facts speaks for them. I strongly admire the reporting skills of the western media.Yes, all you say are 'based on' facts, and you know how to select the best angle of the issue. The tibetans are crying. Oh, poor guys, i am almost moved by them. But remember, the justice is not in the hands of those who cry and shout. Or, is there real justice in this event?
YEW,
You're foolish to believe the western world is blinded by their media. Remember China is the communist country who controls every aspect of their media and writes propaganda to ensure the intellectual enslavement of its people. That's why America is considered the freest country in the world and why we are held in such high esteem by the rest of the international community. We're far from perfect, but at least we're free and in China you wouldn't even have the right or ability to post such a foolish statement. The very message you've written has been done so using the right's which democracy and freedom allows and which those in China do not have. Fool. Think before you speak.
First of all, the no peaceful protesters were killed. The only ones killed are rioters. The western media conveniently overlooks the ordinary people killed by the Tibetan mob and rioters. What would you want your government to do when there is mob violence on the street? The Chinese government did not stop peaceful protests. In fact, monks protested for 4 days before the riots broke out. The Chinese government only clamped down when Tibetan rioters started burning down shops and killing people.
It's interesting (and depressing) to see how many Chinese contributors to this forum, and others in Western publications, simply regurgitate Chinese government propaganda.
When will they appreciate that one can criticize the Chinese government's actions without being anti-Chinese? I live in Switzerland and am strongly critical of the Bush government. Not because I'm anti-American; on the contrary, it's because I believe that the country deserves better.
Similarly, China deserves a government which allows people to hold and express dissenting views, rather than treating them as children to be dragooned lectured to.
The reason why China is receiving such widespread criticism in the West at the moment has nothing to do with 'splittism' or a desire to weaken the country, and everything to do with the Chinese government's intolerance of independent thought, and its insistence on monopolizing the media.
They may succeed in imposing their agenda within China, but they won't succeed in the rest of the world, and their efforts to do so diminish them in the eyes of thinking people everywhere.
YEW... who wrote that the tibetan religion is 'outdated' is a complete and utter moron. The Tibetans were invaded. Period. Whatever they do... they reserve the right to bring China to its knees for being a tyrannical and ruthless force accustomed to the practices of rape and torture.
I applaud the Tibetans and every ignoramus they can chuck a brick at.
China your fooling no one!
People, can't you see that Yew is a Chinese name. He's probably a Chinese student studying here in the U.S. Of course, he has been brainwashed in his country, communist China.
America is not free like you said!
Think Abu Ghraib
Think Guantanamo Bay detention, which still continues today
Think invasion of Iraq. Hundreds of thousands of civilians killed.
I am sorry to point out, but big nations always bend the rules when it fits them, then criticize others for doing the same thing. America does it in Iraq, Russia does it Chechnya, India does it in Kashmir, Israel does it in Palestine, Spain does it too in Basque Country and Catalan. The only difference is America is powerful enough so nobody can do anything about it.
I do believe that western media is biased when reporting events in Tibet, and in China in general. It sees China often through tinted sunglasses: everying appears darker than it is.
I have witnessed tremondous progress China has made in the last 30 years. Everyone needs to have things in perspective.
I also believe that the China needs to take this opportunity to review its policies in Tibet. There is huge space for improvement and changes.
The Buddhist religion's two chief tenets are generosity and compassion. Definitely not out of date. The Dalai Lama does not hate the Chinese, despite how he and his people have suffered at their hands, because he lives his belief in compassion. He truly feels compassion for the underlings who have been forced, by their gov't, to kill innocent monks, refuse basic education to Tibetans, refuse jobs to the Tibetans, destroy Tibetan monasteries. Before the Cultural Revolution there were 4,000 monasteries in Tibet. After the Red Guards were finished there were 13 monasteries and one million Tibetans were dead.
Now, the Han Chinese have been paid with grants, jobs and free education, to move into Tibetan parts of Western China. Lhasa's population is now primarily Han Chinese. In addition, the monks are restricted in the Monasteries that remain. The largest monastery in the world, Drepung, had 6,000 monks. Now after much rebuilding, only 500 are allowed to live there. and those few are watched by Chinese spies who pose as monks and report any 'splittist' activity.
The Dalai Lama, who is considered the instigator of the riots, has no means to do so. In addition, he is not calling for the 'splitting' of the Tibetan region from China. He merely wants opportunity and freedom for his people to live and worship. Unfortunately, the Chinese can only see that they have poured money into the region and have lifted (for some people only) the standard of living and the Tibetans are not grateful. It is hard to see where there is a basis for negotiation.
Not agreeing with Chinese goverment does not mean 'Anti-Chinese'. That is the last thing in the world that any other country want another unstable China. Think 1.3 billions Chinese immigrants spreads out the world. Every single city of this world aldready has a Chinese town. They aldready conquered the world.
Chinese expect their citizens to work for the harmony of the state by conformance to standards including non-violoence and no protests. This is a part of Confucianism filial piety where the children are supposed to be subservient to the family.
The Dalia Lama as a cohort of CIA attempts to overthrow the government of China has already shown his cards of wanting to create his own serfdom based upon the practice of slavery that is ancient in Tibetan culture. The heart of the Maoist revolution was to forbid a class in society that rules over the general population very much unlike this Tibetan past.
Hence with these two principles of the Tibetan Buddhist's worldview is in direct conflict with the majority Chinese culture. Add the fact that western nations always viewed and supported Tibet because this was the doorway into China via military conquest. China will not yield in their demand of continued sovereignty over Tibet.
Tibet has been part of Tibet for all of modern history. Check out newschecker.blogspot.com
Google 'ST Circus' to learn about more of the CIA and Dalai Lama attempt at violent terrorist actions in China.
Brainwashed or not is an objective call. Could it be that the people in the west are brainwashed into thinking Tibet was ever an independent country? It was part of China dating back to the 13th century. It is recognized as Chinese territory by all the nations in the world. In fact, no western government is delusioned enough to suggest Tibetan independence because all of them have recognized Chinese sovereignty in Tibet for decades. Speaking of public support, the people in China are overwelmingly supportive of their government's policies in Tibet. In fact the main complaint in China is the government has been too soft on the Tibetan rioters. Again, this has nothing to do with being brainwashed. No sovereign government can allow it own territory to secede. The current Chinese government cannot allow it, and any future democratic Chinese government will not allow it.
Yew you’re obviously a Chinese communist with your propaganda you spew on this comment page. The difference here is that we are a free people who can think for themselves so your lies and cover up don't work here. Keep it to your own people that you want to keep depressed and stupid. What was China thinking when n it wanted the Olympics in the first place opps BIG miscalculation on Chinese power. By the way any fool knows that when China expels all foreign observers from Tibet it is because China is covering up the bloodshed it causes!
1.3b han-chinese living all round city in world? very stupid thoughts.
Whether the Dalai Lama instigated the riots himself is not important. The fact remains his followers caused deadly riots that killed many innocent people and caused tremendous property damage, and the Dalai Lama did not stop them. If the Dalai Lama is not in control of his followers, there is no reason for the Chinese government to negotiate with him. In fact I would strong oppose any kind of negotiation at least until peace and order has been completely restored. If any lessons were learned in Israel or Chechnya in dealing with rioters and separatists, it is that you never appease the enemy and you never negotiate under fire.
For those in the West who are critical of China in this recent actions. You have failed to understand both the historical and cultural context of why the Chinese government needs to do what it does. Are you completely sure that the Dalai Lama and his exiled Tibetan followers are not on the payroll of western intelligence. Read up on the history of Tibet and how the British and Americans have used Tibet to foment violence and caused strife to serve political aims of western interests. Freedom comes with responsibility. Not all who disagree with the Western Media are brainwashed by the Chinese government. No country will tolerate anarchy. The Tibetan violent protesters have much more sinister agendas. The primary importance is that most Chinese overseas and in China are no longer buying the Western press. That is good news. That these so called riots occurred around the time of Taiwanese elections is of no co-incidence. Fortunately, even the Taiwanese are acutely aware of this and the Tibet riots did not succeed to sway voters there from the more pro-China party. The PRC government is far from perfect, but if you look at how far they have come and how the West have tried to undermine them on slightest impulse; i have to give them credit for what they are doing. You can remain naive to the real issues of national security confronting China, but you will not be entertained by those who know better.
Alex, you make a lot of claims, do you have any proof for anything you say? If not then please STFU.
YEW, your comment clearly shows your ignorance and stupidity. Please do some research before opening your mouth rather than completely relying on extremely biased Chinese media, which seems like what you are doing. If you had done a little bit of research, you would find that there's no such thing...and there never was...as human sacrifices in Buddhism.
The Chinese, besides Japan, has a long history of aggression in the Orient, and this is just another example of it. I applaud the EU and others for supporting the Tibetans by comdemning Chinese's actions. Hopefully, enough disgruntlement from the rest of the world will knock them off of their high horse and get them to develop ways to end this thing peacefully.
The Chinese took over Tibet by military force. The Chinese government and military are cowards for using such force to take over a peaceful, mostly un-armed nation. Their defamation of the Dalai Lama clearly shows their disgusting nature. Their abusiveness in Tibet was what caused these protests. We are not living in a time of land conquest; that time period is long over. Stay in your own borders. Lands like Tibet and Taiwan are NOT yours to conquer! I spit on your cowardliness.
I do not understand how people can believe all the propoganda they are fed. The conspiracys you say exist only exist in you minds.
China's claim on Tibet is bogus. Greece was a part of the Ottoman empire. Should Turkey invade and appropriate Greece? No. It is wrong for China to claim Tibet just because Tibet was a part of the Qing Dynasty. This the reason quoted by China in order to legalize their appropriation of an otherwise free nation of Tibet before 1950. Moreover, China should be held responsible and China's leaders tried for war crimes for committing a genocide of 1,278,387 Tibetans until 1983 and counting... The media, for politeness sake, usually discounts all those Tibetan lives lost while only claiming 'cultural genocide' of Tibet by China.
The human rights record of Communist China is near incomprehensible. The toll begins with between 6-10 million deaths as a direct result of Communist actions. Over 20+ million counter-revolutionaries perished in prison camps and a further 20-43 million perished as the Great Leap Forward collided with the greatest famine in human history. The Cultural Revolution consumed a further million. Then a genocide of Tibetans, Sudanese, Burmese, and the list goes on... Free Tibet NOW~!
I would like to express my view of this topic
1. Tibet is part of China.
This is the truth that Tibat is part of China. Every country in the world agrees with the truth. If you don't agree with that, you have the right to express your own opinion, but it will not change what the truth is. And we don't have any common ground to debate.
2. Western media are biased.
We have read Tibetan's protests again and again reported from western media. But they have never reported Chinese protects against Tibetan separatism. If you have the chance to get involved in oversea chinese communities or websites, you will see how much chinese people support China government on this issue.
I am amused that West actually buys into the superstition of the Dalai Lama and his cohorts. He is just an opportunist on the payroll of the Americans. I guess for a while, i too thought that he is advocating peace and so on by his position and writings, but there are forces whether under his control or not which are violent, ugly and out to destroy a peaceful society. This remains a fact. There are also many fake Buddhists whose actions do not gel with Buddhist principles. Hence, the recent riots. I am glad those so called immigrant Tibetan exiles remain the West. You can feed them and cajole them and even subscribe to their propaganda in the West. China will remain stable and continually improve their systems and governance. The West do not have a monopoly on virtue and certainly laughable to preach morality to the Chinese (read up on the Opium War, CIA testimony by Knaus etc.).
What do you need proof of? That the rioters are followers of Dalai Lama? They are chanting his name and holding up his picture, right? I assume you have seen all the videos floating around on the Internet. In fact, if they are NOT his followers, then the Dalai Lama is irrelevant, so why should you negotiate with someone that's irrelevant?
If people really care about democracy, they will notice people in China are overwelmingly supportive of their government on the Tibetan issue. People tend to support their government when under foreign pressure. To say that foreign media coverage has been even-handed is a joke. I see one news article about the Chinese victims of the riots for every one hundred that talks about Tibetan being arrested. What do you expect a sovereign government to do? Just allow people to riot and let mob violence rule the street?
I truly don't understand why some so called democracy activists want to isolate China at every turn. I guess they are not very good students of history or just don't care. Just look at what happened in Cuba for the last half a century. Castro is still in power and in fact he merely uses the western isolation as the excuse all his failings. By any measure, engagement has made China a far more open society than Cuba.
Isn't Africa to be considered as the most urgent issue than Tibet?
When it comes to question of national sovereignty and security, the Chinese government have no need to humor the 'white man's glee' about the riots in Tibet. Those who cause troubles internally will pay their dues in time. Having lived in the West for a long time, and by the way i am not Chinese, and having some understanding on the history of China; i am not surprised at all by the Western media and governments hypocritical approach to China. What the Chinese needs to learn from is the Israelis handling of terrorists, especially in public relations. Maybe they can hire PR firms like what the US presidential candidates have done.
Tibetan buddism is a heretic branch of mahayana buddhism. It had many superstition and borrowed ideas Tantric sexual practice from india and shamanic practice from the shamanic Bon religion of North Eastern India. It had many so called secret sutras brought to Tibet by the Lotus Born in 7th cen ad. This is why even as buddhist I never really believe their saying. I rather be hinayana thai buddhist than a tibetan shaman with no theological basis for their sutras.
Tibet is one of a hundred reasons I hate the government of China, and 'hate' is not a word I often use. Besides the arrest, torture, and summary executions of hundreds of peaceful Falun Gong practitioners, the iron grip preventing free expression, the implicit acceptance of Iran's terrorist leanings, and the tacit approval of Sudan's genocide, the Chinese government has the gall to occupy another country for 50 years and act outraged when the people there oppose their tyranny. The Chinese have blocked all the recordings of the confrontations they can, and refuse to acknowledge that any innocent Tibetans have been hurt, despite reliable reports of nearly one hundred dead.
The Tibetan rioters are killing innocent people, which is terribly wrong, but their guilt does NOT absolve China of being guilty of tyrannizing those people to the point of desperation. China obviously doesn't understand the point of the Olympics if they think their crimes should be ignored in light of the games. The games are supposed to bring our ideals to a higher, international level, not mask our atrocities.
Every human on earth knows what Freedom is and there is no freedom in China.
American business should be ashamed to do business with a country like China after so many Americans have died to promote Freedom in the World.
Liars at M&C deleted comments on their coverage of Tibetan riots. Keep deleting.
What a mad world we live in. On one side we are provoking unrest an problems about the countries which were ocupied or taken in by the other sates decades ago and forget about the current events like ocupation of Iraq or Afgnistan. Europe or America has got no right to this propaganda when they are the people who are ocupying lands and killing millions in this century right infornt of our eys. good luck to this world where butchers are talking about animal rights.
Slavery is out of date, period.
I agree Israel has been far more successful in their PR and I generally support the actions of sovereign governments facing separatist movements. It does help Israel to have the most powerful country on earth always on the Israeli side. I support China's gradual move toward democracy, but to argue the right to secede by Tibetans or any other region is not democracy. A democratic China would probably have a more hard-line approach in a crisis like the current one, judging from the mood of Internet bloggers in China. To Tibetans, stop your pipedream of 'Free Tibet'! Tibet is already free. Tibet will always be part of China. No democratic government will ever allow its territory to secede.
Stop all your nonsense!!!!
Please see Buddha quotes as follows:-
'All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain?'
'Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.'
Buddha.
The reality is these Tibetan protestors are mostly non-Tibetans. They have never been to Tibet, they don't know what the life is there. Their knowledge about Tibet is all from Tibet-exile-government, which is very biased in its reporting.
I debated Tibetan issues with several Tibetans. They can not think clearly. When I questioned them about what they know about Tibetan history, culture and local people’s life. They can't answer any of that, they SIMPLY have no idea. All they have is anger, then, they felt they were embarrassed by me and they started using F words and profanity, even accusing me as a communist! So this is what freedom means to them:
They have freedom to speak, while others disagree with them have to shut their mouth.
I am very disappointed at these Tibetan activists. Their movement will never succeed.
**After I posted my comments, a Mr.Rasputyn angrily called me Chinese ambassador. The following is my reponse to him.**
To Rasputyn and all people who read my commentary,
See what I mean?
I disagree with them, so this Rasputyn started calling me Chinese ambassador. Mr. Rasputyn, your name says you are a Tibetan. You come to this country and you should learn some manner and the real meaning of democracy. What you said is all accusation and not any different from profanity; whatelse you call me? Al quaida?
I certainly make you disappointed again, because I am an American. Being an American doesn’t means I have to support your cause.
Your comment makes me even more disappointed. It’s not even worth to response to you.
The Chinese communist government use the Olympic game to glorify its self, the very same way as Nazi Germen did some 70 years ago.
It's very sad that under the all kinds of lies of the communists, a lot of Chinese people have been brain washed to the point that they no longer can think independently, and no longer can tell what is right what is wrong.
A new China free of communists free of lies and corruption and killing is long over-due.
The problems caused by the Chinese communist rule have to be solved one way or another!
If I were a Tibetan I would be protesting about the past slavery and torture of the Tibetan monks and slavery society that they had to endure for centuries.
If I were a Tibetan I would praise the Chinese government for trying to bring prosperity and peace to the region and for allowing me the freedoms that were non-existent during the reign of the Dalai Lama and his predecessors.
Tibetan's will be rewarded for hard work and peacefull coexistent with the many ethnic minorities in China. These minorities have social welfare programs aimed specifically at them being able to keep many cultural traditions as long as they do not revolt against the state. Better access to education is one of these privileges. Wake up Tibetans and fight against the tyranny of the Dalai Lama and get educated for the changing technological world that is all that much smaller than it was before. Don't let the Dalai Lama and his cohorts push you back into the dark ages of serfdom and slavery that was so common many centuries ago before China brought peace and prosperity and a better life for you all.
The brutal treatment of Tibetan protesters in Kathmandu demonstrates that Maoists obviously control affairs in Nepal. This doesn't bode well for that impoverished country. Doctrinaire authoritarian communism will only
impair diplomatic, cultural and economic relations with other countries who would otherwise be in a positon to assist Nepal. Besides, Maoists seem more interested in pushing their political agenda for self serving purposes, while other Nepalese are neglected. What seemed recently to herald a new day for Nepal following the dissolution of the monarchy has now been shown to be no more than a totalitarian power grab. Tibetans and Buddhists have an important place in Nepal's culture.
I love my country, I love my country doesn't mean I love the current regime.
There is no human rights for the poor and minorities, the law only speaks for and protect the rich and the corrupted officers.
Not everyone knows that the CCP did very bad thing to the Tibet people in the 50's; the current developments there did not take consideration to reserve the natural beauty and culture treasure.
I will cry for the Tibet.
I will be shamed by you - Yaw as a Chinese!
Thank you all western media. Thank you for intending to make my home country China a better state. Thank you very much!!!
But please let us, let our own legal government deal with our own problems, okay? Please leave us alone. We have our own values and philosophy.
Care more about your own business.
China will be united joyfully and peacefully!!! That's a voice from 1.3 billion people.
@ alex.....'America does it in Iraq, Russia does it Chechnya, India does it in Kashmir, Israel does it in Palestine, Spain does it too in Basque Country and Catalan.'
It appears you either suffer with poor knowledge or deliberately hiding the facts! America does it in Iraq for known and hidden reasons, for which poor Iraqis are suffering now. What Russia did with Chechnya is known for good. Israel does it in Palestine for ages, not just Israelis mistake. Looks like you are closing your eyes by saying India does it in Kashmir. Did you means Pakistan a holy nation? Better ask Pentagon and CIA. And fitting Spain in this equation is totally a mindless act!
China is growing as a irresponsible power. It is threatening it's neighbors. Going logger heads with US & EU. It doesn't like Japan and some Asian giants like India. Chinese use age old cheap trick to fight one nation with another, in the end to get benefited out of these fights! That's why Chinese are arming Pakistan secretly. If with the same attitude, China will cast huge shadows on the Global security aka triggering potential WW-III. China MUST BE tamed for Global peace.
@ Meditation
you are 100% correct! But these jack asses think something else, this destructive nature of the 'Human Being' will wipe out this planet one day....you see already count down started in Antarctica. Hope these Morons wake up and stop fighting with each other!
There is no question Chinese needs to be more democratic. China is moving in that direction and the Olympics is a great opportunity to do that. But people who argues for Tibetan independence or boycotting of the Olympics, they must be deluded or have some anti-China hidden agenda. Do you really want China to turn inward and become isolated? I am sure they will crack down on Tibet even more if the welfare of Tibetans is what you want. There is no way China can allow Tibet the kind of autonomy that the Dalai Lama has asked for. No sovereign nation can allow it. And all the China-hating propaganda in the western media, they merely make people in China more suspicious of western countries.
Can anybody explain how hacking to death, burning alive of Han Chinese shop keepers is a peaceful protest. What so bad this people did to Budhist monks to deserve this. Just do not tell me that Budhists express their frustration with Chinese government this way.
Hey Western Wisdom
you got some great points and I think many will agree on some but one point of information; communism is an economic system not a political system and you should know that China now has a market-based economy. 'As of 2005, 70% of China's GDP was in the private sector.' (wikipedia).
While communism is arguably the cause of many problems in China it's not the reason for media control and the other terrible crimes of the Chinese government. It just so happens that the name of the sole ruling party in China is called the 'Communist Pary' but it's important to distinguish the two. Communism is not the problem in China it's an authoritarian oligarchy.
China's historical claims on Tibet are tenuous at best and the arguements supporting it border on the fantastic, and their rationale for their so called liberation of Tibet are ludicrous. Lets see, because old Tibet was not exactly a wonderful modern place to be, that justifies the Chinese invasion to help the Tibetans (already the racist idea of Han superiority manifests itself by the view that Tibetans cannot take control of their own affairs)modernize. So, by this logic, because imperial China had backwards traditions like foot binding, etc, Western nations would have been right to invade and impose their ideas of modernity on China? Further, the idea that the Dalai Lama wishes to restore the old system is plain stupid, it couldnt be restored in its entirety if Tibet were independent today. Tibet, like all other nations, should chose its own destiny. Of course it would have changed anyway had it not been invaded, as has every other nation on the planet in the last 50 years.
Sorry, but for those mindless minions who actually believe what the Chinese gov't tells them, the crimes China commits in Tibet is most certainly everbody's business. The tired line that no gov't recognizes Tibet as an independent state today only serves to illustrate how beholden the nations of the world are to China for economic reasons, but that may change if and when a worldwide recession settles in. One day the Chinese people will see through their gov'ts lies, just like the citizens of the now defunct Soviet Union did. And then another old empire reconstituted under the ideology of Communism will be consigned to the trash heap of history, and then the Tibetan and Han nations will both be free and hopefully live alongside each other as good neighbors.
Akula2:
I guess you must be misunderstanding me because I am not suggesting India shouldn't be controlling a large part of Kashmir. I think they should. Every nation should look out for their own interest and stop blaming other people for their problems. However, it is also clear to me that a sizeable majority of people in Kashmir don't want to be part of India. I don't support their right to secede from India, nor do I support the right of secession anywhere else.
Is China more irresponsible than other big nations? America goes to war in Iraq, and previously in Vietnam and Korea. Nobody did anything about it. You can't hold superpowers to the same standard as other nations. In this world, power and money talks, and American power and money talks louder than anyone else.
It is the mindless minions that believe China has committed crimes in Tibet.
It is the Tibetan Buddhist monks that have been criminal. With the ideas of terrorism and murder these monks have denigrated everything that Buddha ever stood for.
The Chinese people have been to patient with these terrorists and Western nations interference into Chinese internal affairs will only harden the Chinese peoples unwillingness to appease the monks determination for violence.
Tibetans need to appreciate the vastly greater freedoms that they have ever had in their history. As Chinese they need to understand that the good for the whole is more important than the good for a few. Stop listening to the Western idealization of Machiavellian politics and the nature of western nations to be selfish individualistic consumers.
The Chinese government has an 85% approval rating by the citizens of China. Far higher than that of many of the so called modern western nations that only wish to denigrate the great advances China has made in the past 20 years.
Alex:
America is not free? I think you are very wrong. I think the USA is a free country and the citizens have numerous freedoms. Unfortunately, like everything it's not perfect and it has many flaws. One such flaw is that its people have put economic freedom ahead of personal freedoms. Another problem is that individuals are given a false sense that they have a greater impact on their government than they actually do have. Another is that the country has committed many crimes against humanity and the international community over the years but has undo influence in the international community and is able to get away with it.
Having said all that we must recognize that the beautiful thing about the USA is that I am citizen of the USA and I am uncensored and able to publicly criticize the country. I'm not going to make excuses for a government out of silly national pride. I also respect the Zurich poster who criticized the US government (the government of my birth) after all what would we be if we couldn't accept and consider the critique of our fellow humans from varying perspectives? To paraphrase a wise wise man, If I am only for my country what am I, but if I am not for my country at all who am I?
I am on a website hosted in the USA. I am reading news and information from around the world uncensored via the Internet (which was created by the US government and later used and further developed by universities). This resource was made public and international and is uncensored. This would be unheard of if in many places around the world. I know that the USA is not innocent in many things and I welcome intelligent dialogue about the issues but I would hope that my brothers and sisters from other nations would be able to do the same about their countries.
In the end we are all humans and governments, economic systems, geographic boundaries, flags, and languages are all human inventions and can just as easily be rearranged, shifted etc. so maybe it's time we all truly recognize this human connection irrespective of arbitrary borders and social constructs like nationality and race.
reality:
I agree that China's claim on Tibet depends on which side you are on. To some people it's not convincing. But guess what? Large nations use suspicious reasoning to justify their actions all the time. America just used some contrived justification to invade Iraq, continues to occupy Iraq, and according to John Mccain, will occupy Iraq for the next 100 years. Nobody raises their voice against America because they all know how rich and powerful America is. Yet people accuse China for throwing its political and economic muscle around? In this world, power counts. That's the way it is and the way it should be.
I know there are all these calls for Tibet independence. Did anyone who calls for Tibet independence think about how Tibet will survive once it is on its own?
Let's set some facts straight:
1) China invaded Tibet in 1949. Tibet's invasion was condemned by America, Britain, and the vast majority of UN nations. Before that, Tibet was NOT under the rule of any foreign country.
That includes China.
Read that again you brainwashed Commies.
2) Tibet was hardly a bastion of peace and love prior to China's invasion. It was a feudal society where the Dalai Lama lived in a fourteen story castle with a thousand rooms while the peasants toiled away in the fields. There was no education, health care or civil rights. Peasant women were sexually abused, dissidents were tortured, life sucked as it did in any feudal society.
Tibet was not Shangra-la
Read that again you brainwashed Yanks.
3) Free Tibet.
They've endured thousands of years of abuse by both their former tyrants, and their present ones.
Free Tibet.
Everyone deserves freedom.
Everyone deserves the right to free thought, free speech, and free assembly.
Chris, Once Tibet is 'freed' as you wish. Who do you propose to feed Tibetans? Who is going to put in infrastructures? Who is going to provide military support?
So Alex, if I live next to you, and I take over your property by force, abuse your family members, make them do slave work, etc., decades later, will you tell your kids and grandkids that they can't be disgruntled and upset because your property has already became mine and that they shouldn't try to kick me out?
Exactly. Didn't think so. So do some research on the treatment of Tibetans from the Chinese government. Then perhaps you'll understand more on where the Tibetan protesters are coming from.
I was born in China and lived there for first 20+ years and now live in US and have lived here for 20+ years.
I agree with Alex that this World is shaped by powerful nations. In the past 2+ centuries it was and is Western countries. They have sent troops to every corner of the earth. The crime committed by Western countries are countless. Many conflicts existed today in Africa, Mideast and other part of the world are the consequences of these events. When they learned that military alone may not maximize their gain, they will find other means such economic exploitation.
The war in Iraq is illegal by any standards other than the United States'. There are more than 60,000 people killed there (not sure how many were killed under the former dictator). The killing is still going. Americans has obligations to protect civilians there but they stayed in Green zone for their own safety because one American is probably worth 1000+ Iraqis. This war was supported by many Western governments. I know many of us in West have protested the war, but the fact is the war was supported by the government we have elected. And I have not seen many of us jumping up and down to boycott American sport events and products. And at one point American was thinking about to bomb or send troops to Iran!!!
Now coming back to China issue. We can argue back and forth whether Tibet is part of China. The fact is >90% of the countries in this planet agreed that IT IS, the same goes with the United States but not native Indian, or the Australia but not native Australian.
Does that mean I agree with the way Chinese government handle Tibet? No! Nor do I agree with the way Western countries handle the world business!
Someone has accused China been an aggressor. Please get some facts strait before making that statement. As I stated the Western nations had been, have been and are the greatest aggressor in the modern history!
Once learned some facts lets ask ourselves: Are we using different moral (or whatever) standards to measure ourselves and others?
We may argue that Western countries have learned from past and are doing better than Chinese government. I would like to get into that but am out of time.
How much do you people know about Chinese history or Tibet history? How do you know what's better for China or Tibet? All you know is what's written in those biased report or distorted news or pictures. You must be so innocent to think that media report is always objective or they don't take side. Of course everything from the communist party government is wrong to you. Of course whoever cries the loudest gets more sympathy and attention. This just proves the poor judgment of yours and how narrow-sighted you are.
Feel lucky that Indians haven’t asked for their independence or their land back. Remember when you point finger to others, the other three are pointing back to yourself!!
Google ST Circus and learn about how the Dalai Lama and his followers were trained by the CIA and provided weapons in the 1950's to help overthrow the Chinese government and help establish USA military bases in Tibet.
Then you can understand why China will always exert control over the Chinese Tibetan province.
The only way the Tibetan province of China will be allowed greater autonomous power is by cooperation and coordination with the central government of China.
Fighting a terrorist campaign of violence and murder will do the opposite. The chinese people as a whole will demand more control of the region.
This is the great mis-calculation of the Dalai Lama, because he is still supported by the CIA his followers think they can use the exertion of Western nations to gain more independence.
China remembers well the last time foreigners invaded China, Western nations , Americans and Japan tortured murdered and stole vast amounts of Chinese cultural heritage and wealth and forced them into slavery and opium houses.
These Western nations attempts at supporting terrorism and murder in China will only bring less freedom and more control over remote provinces of China.
human connectedness:
I did not say America is not free, I meant America is not the democratic Utopia that people constantly use to contrast with China. I guess plenty of people who have never been to China feel as though the country is like a prison camp that nobody wants to have any part of, and that's just not so. People over there are very supportive of their government, especially with issues such as Tibet. So Tibet is not a matter of democracy in China. What the Dalai Lama and his followers want is independence for Tibet or at least autonomy that's practically indistinguishable from independence. Well, that's not going to happen. No sovereign nation will allow that. The Dalai Lama seems intent on engaging in a test of will against the Chinese government to achieve Tibet's independence, and use violent means if needed. The sooner he realizes Tibet will always be part of China and stop inciting Tibetan violence, the better it would be for Tibetans.
Biowizard: The war in Iraq is also illegal by US standards and that's why Bush and his cronies and anyone who voted for him a 2nd time should be tried for war crimes!
HN:
First of all, I don't agree Tibet is occupied. Tibet has been part of China since the 13th century. China has plenty of legitimacy to claim Tibet that all the nations in the world recognize it.
Second, nations have lost territory or even statehood throughout history. Palestine just lost a big part of its territory to Israel and continues to lose more of the West Bank. People in western nations are perfectly OK with this arrangement because Israel is an ally.
The Chinese propaganda never stops.
That's OK, for at least we have the freedom to dispell the ignorance. China took Tibet by force in 1949, if anyone wishes to dispute this fact ...
They are arguing for their own ignorance.
Certainly Tibet is a part of China ... now. That generally happens when 40,000 troops move in, and your population is displaced by 90% Hans.
But that will not silence those who know their history. Those who cherish freedom, and those who have the audacity to speak out against the atrocities committed against the Tibetians.
Free Tibet.
The fact is that no any west government, media, and activist condemn those who killed innocent people and caused tremendous property damage,
instead that they are treated as heros. Why? Because the people they killed are Chinese? Chinese people don't have human right to live in this world?
The Chinese have every right to freedom.
Everyone has the right to freedom.
I just wish that the 85%-90% of the Chinese that approve of their current government would understand this.
I'll leave you with this:
'From a legal standpoint, Tibet has to this day not lost its statehood. It is an independent state under illegal occupation. Neither China's military invasion nor the continuing occupation has transferred the sovereignty of Tibet to China. As pointed out earlier, the Chinese government has never claimed to have acquired sovereignty over Tibet by conquest. Indeed, China recognizes that the use or threat of force (outside the exceptional circumstances provided for in the UN Charter), the imposition of an unequal treaty or the continued illegal occupation of a country can never grant an invader legal title to territory. Its claims are based solely on the alleged subjection of Tibet to a few of China's strongest foreign rulers in the thirteenth and eighteenth centuries. If other countries were to make such tenuous claims based on their imperial past, how seriously would they be taken? Are we not, in even considering the merits of China's arguments, accepting the right of powerful modern rulers to invade foreign countries in order to recreate lost empires of their ancestors?'
Peace,
Chris
one picture worth a thousand words
go to what really happened.com scroll and put in key word
'Chinese-soldiers-posing as riot-monks' Then boycott the games and the sponsors this has to stop we must not be a part of this madness
Chris,
What makes you think you know better than the majority of Chinese?
And you did not answer this, or don't you know the answer?
Chris, Once Tibet is 'freed' as you wish. Who do you propose to feed Tibetans? Who is going to put in infrastructures? Who is going to provide military support?
The idea that Chinese soldiers dressed up as Tibetans and rioted and murdered is the most laughable lie to yet come from the Dalai Lama's group.
If they want to continue their lies they really have to do much better than that.
LOL
Oppressing Jews was popular in Germany.
Communism is a western philosophy, not an eastern one.
China is moving in its own people to try to displace Tibetans. Anyone in the world would be very angry over this. Communism is pretty much against religion. Any religious person would also be very angry over this.
The exiled government is not calling for independence from China, they want autonomy over their affairs. Wouldn't you if your people were being displaced? China has also dumbed toxic sludge from America up there. The investments China has made in Tibet are completely suspect, and very likely done to entice the Han to move to Tibet.
The Himalayans provide water to hundreds of millions of people, so it is going to become a very strategic point in the coming era of water shortage.
From what the rest of the world can see, the Chinese were very brutal in Tibet and other parts that it has 'reclaimed'. We will not support China because of this. In the end Communist China will fall, the same as the USSR. A democratic and free China will emerge, and hopefully they will not go down the same route as western powers, who are destroying the world through capitalism.
The Tibetans and Chinese deserve better than what Communist China has given them. China was once the home of the greatest craftsmen in the world. Now they create low quality items. Is this progress?
Tibet has been a province of China for all of modern history. It was neither occupied by force or by illegal means. Every nation on earth understands and recognizes that Tibet is part of China.
The Chinese did not use military force in Tibet until the 1950's after the Dalai Lama with the CIA provided weapons, explosives and training started to use terrorist actions to overthrow the Chinese government and create a place for USA military bases in China. Of course the Dalai Lama fled in 1959 after Americans would not formally enter into his war against Chinese authorities.
Look at the maps of China over the last several centuries that can be found at newschecker.blogspot.com and you will understand that the statements trying to rewrite history - that Tibet was ever an independent nation is a lie.
@ Alex:
Yes, I agree that Tibet is not occupied...not legally. China having a military presence there means that they are in that country illegally, just like the U.S. and Britain in Iraq.
Also, I agree with you that throughout history, nations have lost territories, but many times, new nations are developed from them. Just because Tibet was part of the Chinese empire back in the 13th century doesn't give the current China rights to reclaim lost territory. This is like saying Russia should re-invade a country that was part of the Soviet Union to reclaim their lost land.
As far as the world was concerned, before the Chinese re-invasion, Tibet was a recognized independent nation. When the Chinese attacked, Tibet didn't put up much of a resistance either because they had no organized military. They were a peaceful country. The fact that China invaded an almost unarmed country proves its nature of aggression and shows its cowardliness that should be condemned by the rest of the world.
Comparing the American occupation of Iraq to the Chinese province of Tibet is nonsensical. Like saying Americans are occupying California.
While I agree that the American occupation of Iraq is not only stupid waste of Americans taxpayer money and we should remove our military from Iraq as soon as possible and Americans should be protesting this occupation - it is nothing like what is going on in the Chinese province of Tibet.
Tibet has and always will be a province of China. It is not occupied by force and it was not conquered by force. The borders of China and India and Nepal are geographical borders. The Himalayan mountains separate these countries very much like the Atlantic Ocean separates America from Europe.
The Chinese internationally recognized borders are a natural border and helps keep harmony within the country of China by being a military obstacle to invasion by foreign countries. China has been invaded by foreign countries looking to enslave the Chinese people and steal the wealth of the nation many times in history. Hence China is very sensitive to foreign involvement in internal affairs and intends to maintain sovereign rights over all of China, to protect the people of China, including those in the province of Tibet.
I'm sorry Zephon...but where are you getting your facts from? facts claiming that Tibet was a province of China? That is just absurd. Your comparison between China's occupation in Tibet and California being a part of the U.S. is laughable and makes absolutely no sense. I'm not going to even bother explaining how ridiculous that comparison was.
If you think that Chinese occupation of Tibet was not without force and abuse, then please do some actual research from credible sources rather than just making blunt statements.
I agree that the Chinese have the right to handle internal affairs without interference from outside forces, but this is beyond internal affairs because it involves another country...and yes Tibet IS a country...NOT a Chinese province as the Chinese government (and you) believe. So China deserves to be scrutinized by the rest of the world for their affairs with Tibet.
@ Alex
There is no misunderstanding from my side, maybe am little too straight. Okay, coming back to the discussion:
> I am not suggesting India shouldn't be controlling a large part of
> Kashmir. I think they should.
Kashmir problem to my understanding India has clear title of possession aka Alignment with India under Instrument of Accession signed by then Kashmir King. Problem here was Pakistan, which is more or less like a rogue nation protected by USA! Later, China too secretly developed ambitions against India. That's why China has close links with Pakistan and continuously arms it with Missiles and Nuclear weapons, which could be used against India! So, my *archives* say that Kashmir is only India's business. Period.
> However, it is also clear to me that a sizeable majority of people
> in Kashmir don't want to be part of India.
Does this make sense? Let's see *through* your logic! Okay, imagine 1/3 Kashmiri people are willing to break-off. It's the same case with Tibet too. Is China ready to part away with Tibet? Then what right China or Pakistan have with Kashmir? Why are they occupying India's Kashmir? They do they support direct/indirect methods for unrest in Kashmir? If China does that, why shouldn't India do with Tibet? If India gets a super strong leadership in the coming years to counter all the threats, what would happen? Any answers?
> Is China more irresponsible than other big nations?
China had/has problems with then USSR, USA, EU, Japan, India etc. Worst betrayal was with India. They have cheated them will full of lies! But those Indians still believe these Chinese, disgusting.
> America goes to war in Iraq, and previously in Vietnam and Korea.
With all due respect to my fellow Americans, my 2 cents for their stupid policies! Now they are messing up with NATO and ex-USSR regions. By such actions USA will eventually sow the seeds for Cold War II with Russia and/or China! Is that all necessary?
Let me tell you again, some policies of USA are really stupid. First they invest into a country which can't be trusted at all, China! Later it grows with a 10% plus GDP rate for over a decade, in this process slowly but solidly arms and grows into a big monster. Is that all necessary?
Remember, till date expenditure with Iraq war is $500 billion, analysts estimated another $500 billion would flow!! How many people can be fed and bettered with that money on this planet? Whole Africa can be been turned into prosperity. Sigh! Is that all necessary? Anyone can answer?
For those that are still confused that Tibet is a province of China look at these maps created by western cartographers over the past several hundred years. All show Tibet as a province of China. These maps are at: newschecker.blogspot.com
China never used military force to occupy Tibet. To learn more of the military force China did use to stop terrorist activities from the Dalai Lama and his forces armed and trained by the CIA in the 1950's google 'ST Circus' which is the name of the CIA operation to train Tibetan terrorists to help overthrow the Chinese government and help establish US military bases in China. There is also a good Youtube British documentary on the subject that was broadcasted a few years ago on TV. Search youtube for ST circus, CIA & Tibet.
Sorry so many of you are still confused on the history of Tibet.
@ Biowizard
> Someone has accused China been an aggressor. Please get some facts
> strait before making that statement. As I stated the Western nations
> had been, have been and are the greatest aggressor in the modern
> history!
Please gimme a break and keep such facts with you only! I know China was clearly an aggressor at least on TWO-CLEAR counts, ignoring Vietnam and Korea (here meddling was the issue, not aggressor).
#1 China has cheated India even after friendly agreement or Panchasheel (maybe any Indian can add more details here). Those days Mao clearly deceived & cheated Nehru. India was made to believe Chinese, eventually India paid a heavy price for doing that big mistake. Now, they won't do the same mistakes, if anyone can stop China in ASIA it will be India! Get ready for them. And, my proofs are my *archives*, don't try to put a defiant and stupid YES, which Chinese do it most of the times!
#2 China continues to occupy India's Kashmir, which it has NO right, according to my knowledge. Who property is Aksai-Chin? Who is Pakistan to gift India's land and who is China to take and occupy the same? I have learned China now disturbing India's North-Eastern states like Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim. And they are trying to threaten India by increasing border patrols aggressively. Do you have any answers?
Tell me something. Does Chinese think that they can threaten India in the 21st century's nuke age? Just try to imagine China without Russia on its side for most of its requirements. Period.
@ Openyoureyes
> How much do you people know about Chinese history or Tibet history?
> How do you know what's better for China or Tibet?
Are you asking the content writer or people here? I can give you tons of info here based on my *achives* and other *sources* which I can't disclose!
> Feel lucky that Indians haven’t asked for their independence or their
> land back. Remember when you point finger to others, the other three
> are pointing back to yourself!!
Yes, you make sense here! I meant the same in my responses to Alex and Biowizard. There is one simple saying which is very enlightening:
'if y beat x today, z will beat y tomorrow!'
Hope all these silly morons put some thoughts on that saying and progress for a better world. If you want to fight, there are dozens of issues on this planet, like education, poverty and most importantly planet got screwed up with Global Warming! Think on those lines!!
Hi, folks. Shut up and listen. No more cheap talks. No more stupid dialogue. It's time for us to DO something now.
The U.S. should stand up for Tibetans and show the world that we are the true leader of freedom and democracy. We at the very least should re-open the CIA military training camp for the Dalai Lama's resistance fighters at Camp Hale near Leadville, Colorado. His Holiness Dalai Lama worked for the CIA in 1950's-1970's. It's time for us to reward a long time friend and his followers.
We can ask Japanese to financially support the Free Tibet operation. The Dalai Lama loves Japanese people. He enthusiastically endorsed a Japanese spiritual movement, 'Aum Shinrikyo', in 1980's-1990's.
We can also ask Germany for some substantial support from Europe. Germans had deep connections with Tibet in 1930's and 1940's. The Dalai Lama's tutor in 1940's was Heinrich Harrer, a member of the 'Schutzstaffel'. These people are closely linked together. We can form a huge coalition force for sure to change Tibet back to Shangri-La.
We can't wait for any longer. Let's all dream together for a
Free Tibet!
Wanting to bring cold war imperialist strategies that failed even back when America was strongest 60 years ago is the most inane idea I have ever heard.
As if we have not learned anything from our past mistakes.
Fact is, the Dalai Lama is a joke, cares more about his return to power than his people.
If Americans want to lead the world they had best start back home and lead by example rather than to promote war. Instead of wiretapping without warrants and consolidation of the media and arresting protesters like we did ant the Republican National convention 4 years ago we should be stopping the mergers of big business media conglomerates, encouraging freedom of the press and letting those that criticize the government have a voice. And stop torturing prisoners and holding them without trial.
Americans should set an example back home and should not be supporting terrorists like the Dalai Lama.
Akula2:
I don't know enough about Kashmir to dispute what you said, but I do know most people in Kashmir would rather not be part of India if they could. I don't believe they should have the right to secede, just as I don't believe Tibetans should have the right to secede. I make no bones about benefiting from China's development and increased commercial ties with America. I think engagement and development is the best course for China to become more democratic.
As for the relations between India and China, I think there is a great deal of mutual suspicion. As both countries become more rational and more focused on improving people's living standards, the relationship with improve. If India choose to support Tibetan's right to secede, it will greatly increase China's suspicion. Fortunately that's not the position of the Indian government. Remember China-India relation was great, but then there was the Tibetan uprising. Once Nehru decided to give refuge to Dalai Lama, everything soured and eventually the countries went to war. I think both China and India are finally acting rationally and focusing on economic issues.
I see no point in arguing with someone who lacks so much knowledge of the topic that his arguments are no longer credible...actually going to the point of calling the Dalai Lama and his Buddhist followers 'terrorists'...hahahahaha oh my gosh...such ignorance and idiocy.
The Dalai Lama is a terrorist because he supported an uprising by his people with arms and attacked the government of China that had supported him and his people's rights.
With funding and training by the CIA in Samoa and Colorado these terrorist fighters were defeated by the Chinese Army and went into hiding in India where to this day they have been fomenting terrorist activities that resulted in the killing of innocent civilians, burning and looting of stores and anarchy and chaos in China.
That is why the Dalai Lama is considered a terrorist by the vast majority of Chinese and many others like myself.
The Chinese government calling the Dalai Lama a terrorist...go figure.
It's interesting how it's only you, few others like you, and the Chinese government see the Dalai Lama as a terrorist, while I, many others like me, and many of the rest of the world see him as a great spiritual person, who always promote peace and harmony, which are 2 of the biggest things that Buddhism teaches.
Oh and to your comment about the Tibetan forces fighting the Chinese army. Well...if there's an aggressive foreign army coming into your territory, what do you expect them to do? just stand there and wave? Tibet had no military, which was why they seeked the support of Western nations, to supply and train them to fend off the Chinese army. That's just common sense. If I come to your house with a gun, are you going to just sit there, let me go in, and do whatever I want? And if you arm yourself to defend against me, does that make you a terrorist?
THINK.
You should obey him absolutely, and have your family practice the mystical art of Tantric with his followers. yes, it will last forever.
IDIOT
China had no legitimate excuse to invade Tibet. It gave two excuses for it. First of all, it said that it was liberating Tibetans from slavery, and from foreign domination. There is no evidence to support the claim of slavery, and the only foreign domination was in the form of pressure from China.
Secondly, it said that Tibet was always a part of China. This was never the case. From time to time, Tibet was an unwilling part of the Chinese empire, but it was never actually Chinese. Other imperialist powers have now let their empires go. It is time for Imperialist China to do the same.
Whether Tibet was always part of China is debatable, but the demographic reality is there are millions of Chinese of multiple ethnicities in Tibet now. That's called 'facts on the ground' in the Israel-Palestine context. Looks like Israel will hold on to their settlements in Palestine in any future peace settlements. With the backing of America, the world has not even been able to force the withdraw of Israel, so good luck forcing China to give Tibet more autonomy. A more realistic course is stop rioting and focus on improving the lives of ordinary Tibetans. If people choose to put their head in the sand and call for totally unrealistic goal of Tibetan independence or quasi-independence, the only net result is less freedom for Tibetans and even more anti-western sentiments in China.
First the Chinese never invaded Tibet. The Dalai Lama was part of the Chinese government and recognized as a political leader of the region before he conspired the the CIA and tried an failed coup/uprising against Chinese authorities.
So there was no need to repel an invading Chinese Army, the Chinese Army only came to Tibet in the late 1950's after terrorist activities and armed insurrection by Tibetan seperatists funded with arms and explosives and trained by the CIA in Samoa, and Colorado (camp Hale near Leadville).
As far as slavery in Tibet that the Dalai Lama serfdom supported and existed in Tibetan culture far back there are some great pictures at newschecker.blogspot.com. Go to the bottom of the website and see the arrticle from Oct 21, 'Dalai Lama, hero in the western world', with pictures of babies skinned and made into toys and drums, pictures of Tibetans with their eyes gouged out for not following their Tibetan buddhist masters orders. Stocks and chains for keeping Tibetan slaves to be managed and controlled by the Tibetan buddhist masters. All under the supervision of the Dalai Lama. What a great peace loving beatnik guy. These Tibetan buddhists spit and piss on the venerable Buddha and have taken this great spiritual leaders teachings and blasphemed them for their own personal benefit.
The Dalai Lama is nothing more than a manipulator of public opinion and will say and do whatever is necessary to keep himself in the public spotlight to help him return to power.
Zephon, where do you get your facts from? Of course Tibet was invaded in 1950, at about a half a dozen points in the Tibetan province of Kham. Chamdo, the provincal capital, was captured shortly thereafter. Tibet did have an army, a rather poor one, that lost perhaps 5,000 soldiers to the advancing PLA troops. After seizing a good chunk of eastern Tibet, China forced the Lhasa government's representatives to sign the infamous 17 point agreement under duress while they were negotiating in Beijing. Tibet had no choice but to capitulate to Chinas demands, as the world was not willing to help her fight China. Most powers of significance were exhausted by WWII and India's Nehru foolishly believed that China would be a benevolent power and not overly abuse Tibet, so he sacrificed Tibet for his ultimately doomed 'Panch Shil' policy. In so doing, he left India prey to border 'disputes' with China, India's new neighbor, that remain as threats to India's territorial integrity to this day.
As for the CIA's involvment, it was a minor distraction in the struggle for Tibet's freedom, basically Tibetan guerilla fighters took help from wherever they could get it. The help was small and woefully short of what was needed to seriously confront the Chinese occupation forces. The USA was never serious about liberating Tibet from China, had it been serious at the time, China would not be in Tibet today.
Don't get all cranky and rant on about Western media, Chinese values, other countries failings, etc, maybe the Tibetans are protesting and even rioting sometimes because China has been so mean to them for so very long. Yes, they are not grateful for your 'liberation'. They never asked for it. Yes, they are disgusted and angry about the disrepect that Han chauvanism displays to their national history, culture, language, and religion. And for the one who keeps wondering about how would a free Tibet manage its infrastructure and feed itself, well just like any other nation does. After all, the only really calamitous famine in Tibet's two thousand year history was the one Mao brought to Tibet (and China as well) in the early 1960's. No amount of material stuff (most of which is enjoyed by the Han settlers anyway) can make up for the murder of over a million Tibetans since 1950 by Chinese forces and Chinese policies in Tibet. Many Chinese think of Tibetans as ungrateful for what China has done for them, maybe they need to think about why Tibetans seem so ungrateful. Perhaps the history they learn in China about Tibet is as full of lies as what the Soviets taught their captive nations about their place and history in that failed empire.
Tibet was never invaded by the Chinese.
Tibet first became a part of China during the mongol dynasty of China in about the year 1239.
It was not until 1569 that the Dalai Lama lineage came into existence under Chinese rule. That lasted until the current Dalai Lama supported armed insurrection against Chinese rule. Of course they capitulated to the superior Chinese army in the 1950s. If the Dalai Lama was intelligent and caring for his people he would never have supported the failed CIA backed uprising. At the time China had many problems due to the famine of the cultural revolution and the need to manage an back woods province like Tibet was not on their mind.
But the Chinese would never let the province of China go to foreign governments especially as the Dalai Lama's goal of complete independence of Tibet through military conquest with American CIA backing.
This is somewhat a continuation of the British colonial power, India, that invaded Tibet and tried to establish Tibet as part of India in 1904-1911. When the British/India invasion got to Lhasa the Dalai Lama at the time fled to Urgu which was part of China at the time but is now part of Mongolia.
Tibet was confirmed as a part of China by a Sino-British treaty in 1906 by which the 'Government of Great Britain engages not to annex Tibetan territory or to interfere in the administration of Tibet. The Government of China also undertakes not to permit any other foreign State to interfere with the territory or internal administration of Tibet.' Moreover, Beijing agreed to pay London 2.5 million rupees - Britain and Russia agreed that in 'conformity with the admitted principle of the suzerainty of China over Tibet both nations 'engage not to enter into negotiations regarding Tibet except through the intermediary of the Chinese Government.'
Stop buying chinese good and products, no amount of state censoring or idiotic lies of the pro China posters here can stop or lie about that. I already have.
Thing that makes me laugh is the stupid propaganda posted here about how nice China is being about all this. Guys, stop it, you live or were educated in dictatorships, you had to beleive the crap they fed you, the rest of us don't.
First I was born an American Citizen and raised in the United States and have an education from the finest universities this world provides. So don't label me as from china or being Chinese.
Next, China is not a dictatorship as some unknowingly want to believe the propaganda and media here in the USA. The peoples national congress is elected to 5 year terms. The elections are by a electoral system very similar to the American electoral college that selects the President of the US.
For more information read: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People's_Congress
One of the reasons for the lack of response from the Chinese government to the violence from the Tibetan buddhists is because Tibetan government officials were meeting at the time in Beijing at their congress. Local authorities did not have weapons and could not quell the violence against innocent civilians because they do not have the training or weapons needed to do so. It took several days to bring in special military police units to the scene that then the violent protesters were able to be arrested for their crimes.
The Chinese people are furious at the lack of response and expect that this violence will be met with much more force next time. Much different expectation than that of the pro-Tibetan western media expectations. I expect the Chinese government will side with the majority of Chinese and use more force rather than less. After all it is a democracy. I only hope that the Tibetan Buddhist leaders can get some sense and find a more peaceful path rather than go against Buddha's wishes of peace and harmony that is so central to Chinese culture.
As well do not forget that all nationally recognized ethnic minorities in China, including Tibetans get special privileges in China, including social welfare (basically a monthly stipend), advanced placement in higher education, etc...
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