Europe News
Outoing Dutch cabinet to propose law banning full veil in public
Nov 17, 2006, 18:52 GMT
The Hague - Dutch Immigration and Integration Minister Rita Verdonk announced Friday she would put legislation before parliament to ban clothing that entirely covers the face, such as the burqa or niqab worn by some observant Muslim women.
Verdonk said there were no legal impediments to implementing a ban of this kind. Earlier this year, she initiated an inquiry into whether the burqa could be banned.
Current regulations prevent the wearing of full-face helmets and masks in public places, such as public buildings and public transport.
The issue is a topic of controversy in the Netherlands, even though the burqa and niqab are rare sights on Dutch streets.
Commentators have suggested a ban could run into difficulties with regard to guarantees on religious freedom.
There are around 1 million Muslims in the Netherlands, most of them of Turkish or Moroccan origin, in a population of 16.3 million.
Verdonk appointed a group of experts to look into a ban and it had long been known that the cabinet was considering the issue.
The announcement comes just five days before a general election. The campaign has been dominated by bread-and-butter issues, although smaller parties have sought to capitalize on the vexed topic of the integration and assimilation of the Muslim minority.
© 2006 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
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Older Talkback
page: 1
This is just show that Europeans have no tolerance and oppress women just as European accuses the Muslim of doing. Banning a woman to wear veil is same as forcing a women to wear veil, both are oppressive to women and violates women's right. Congratulation Dutch people, you guys are just like Taliban.
It kills the Westerners to think that Muslim women actually choose to wear it. Only thing they want to believe is that women are forced to wear it by men.
Look at the countries like Turkey or Tunisia that government banned it and discourage it. But the Muslim women continue to wear it with big numbers. In the BBC news, they said 65% of the all women in Turkey wear veil.
Very, very small percentage of women are forced to wear it by men but nearly all women wear it because they choose to wear it.
We all know why they can't ban the full Muslim veil or hijab because Nuns wear the same veil for the same reason.
Why is it when nuns wear veil, people consider them holy and pious but when Muslim women wear veil, people consider them 'submissive and oppressed'?
While I disagree with this policy, it's the Hollandses country and culture, and they can run it how they want. The Muslims are the latecomers there, they need to respect the culture they are joining.
I read a while back that a gay man was beaten in Amsterdam by a group of young Armenian males. A gay bashing in Amsterdam, unthinkable! Will one of the most progressive societies on Earth revert to the middle ages for a bunch of backward foreigners in the pursuit of 'tolerance?' What exactly does this signify for the future of the Netherlands, Europe, the world?
It is reasonable decision. Actually, covering all the face in public is a kind of lack of respect to others because people can't identify such kind of person.
If you come to another country and culture, adopt the culture or stay in your country.
Mumbo Jumbo.... wheres the privacy
In most places in the USA for example you can wear a face covering, except in federal buildings (or, in commission of a crime, common sense.) As long as you cannot refuse to show your face for identification purposes, and government photo ID features the uncovered face, I don't see the problem. Unfortunately in places like Florida, a woman wanted to have her drivers' license photo taken with her face covered, which of course undermines the entire point of photo ID. This is a minimum social requirement that foreign immigrants need to adapt to.
But I don't see why there's a need to ban religious face covering unless it really is because of intolerance for other, almost completely personal choices. Who's being hurt by women covering their faces? Who is being oppressed? I don't see anybody. I assume that forcing a woman to cover her face is already illegal by some standard in the Netherlands.
why come to a country thats missing all these traditions from their own homecountry and then complain about it,why not do a bit of research before you move your family there,then when you not happy with that country go to another country or maybe even stay in your own country,the reason i dont go to turkey is because i dont like the traditions, so i dont go there with my family and then tell the turkish society to change their way of living. Actualy what would they think of me and my family if i would ask?Would they react maybe the same way as we Dutch react to the full covered face veil??We all know the answer dont we?
Face-coverings make breathing, seeing and communicating more difficult. Of course they should be banned, whether a woman 'chooses' to wear one or not. And let's face it - no woman chooses to wear a veil unless she's been terrorized at any early age. Terrorism begins at home.
..it angers westerners when your medieval, bigoted, ignorant, Luddite kool-aid drinking, hateful, religious leaders, cow them, right at the chattel level, into SAYING they like to wear them.
As for Holland, whats next... book burning?
Yes, from the same folks who killed that dutch writer.
The difference , in the west, is that, if they decide not to wear them, they, likely, will not be raped, beaten, or killed, and if they are, they will face western justice.
Take that to your holy men and shove it right up their heiney.
when will muslims see that while americas policy toward the islamic world can be flawed and destructive, it is europe that is filled with hatred toward them. This
is typical of anti-islamic legislation that is being passed all over europe. They
marginalize their immigrant populations, forcing them to assimalate, but never granting them full membership to society. All this only proves that america is still the most free nation on earth. Holland may be more permissive of certain illicits(drugs, prostitution, etc.), but it remains an elete club for the dutch and, like most of europe, a breeding ground for discrimination and oppression.
OMFG...what are the macho Muslim men gonna do..they won't be able to hide under women's clothing...its time to put 'Democratic' pressure on these morons..either adapt to 'Western' life..or GO HOME.
peters comment is correct . muslims livung in western countries should tow the line or get out . thousands of people fought and died in wars so that we in the , ' west ' , could enjoy our freedom and secular life-styles . i'm sick and tired of muslims , and all organized religion for that matter . stop living in a fairy-tale world , and come back down to earth . we got freedom . you want freedom ? then join us or get out .
basically i think bannin the scarf or whatever is just plain stupid....
i mean on one side you'll b havin ppl sayin stuff about human rights and freedoms and nxt thing u know.
either adapt the so called western wat of life or go back home.
this is meant 2 be a fee world. you should b able to eat wear follow etc whatever u want
how wud you guys like it if sum1 came up to u and told u wat 2 do??????
surely if some ppl belive in the right 2 take it all of they shud respect the fact of keepin it all on.
go target som1 else for gods sake not only muslims...
ps what bout the nuns who cover there heads....
hey 'unknown' your a complete moron..sure most of the world is free..except the muslims countries..and yet these islamic morons want to come to a free country and make there own laws and whine and cry..bottom line is you obey the Countries Law...if not..then go back to your own Muslim Country....if you want to hide under garments..then go back...if you want to hide in a free country...find a rock to crawl under and STFU.
its like some idiot muslim women..cried and whine about having to remove her veil for a drivers license pic...well 'duh' ya idiot...did ya plan on wearing your veil and share your drivers license pic with the 'chicken' males...so they could drive and use it for an ID....ignorant Muslims don't belong in a Democratic Society with 1000yr old idealogy.
If I had my clitoris ripped out without anesthetic around age 8 or 9, I'd willingly believe beyond a shadow of a doubt whatever the imam mullah or similarly-indoctrinated parent told me was 'right'. I'd gladly wear a burka or headscarf, having been told it's the will of the big pervert in the sky. Oops, that's not my view, that's yours.
And with my culturally reinforced communication talents, I'd do everything to make you feel guilty (and succeed, it is so easy) for my feeling bad, pretending the problem is yours and not mine.
And when you look at me in public, I would continually fail to see that it is my own shame and repressed awareness of the obvious wrongness in my ways that makes me feel bad, and not something in your gentle regard making me uncomfortable.
Remember, I (may have) had my clitoris ripped out, or my best friends did. I'm not even about to consider that I am in the wrong. I'm not about to ask the imam if he's sure he's correct. I'd choose the easy route and blame my uneasiness on you. I'd love to change, but can't. I'm too afraid. Please help me. Please help us.
I am not a muslim, nor a woman, but the above reflects what I see in the eyes of most covered women. It makes me sad this continues to flourish under the protective umbrella of religious freedom. (Does every rule have an exception?)
Education (humour is a great educator) is essential to ensuring that tomorrow continues to carry the pulse of life. Only death doesn't advance, change, progress. We cannot remain stuck in (nor held back by) a rigid mentality trapped in a pre-middle-ages mentality. Humour? They certainly laugh at us for our patsy naiveness. We
No more burka in Holland? Movie stars will need to find other disguises.
When we fail to grasp the necessities of dealing with a mentality which quietly condones or overlooks those unfortunates who've been duped into martyring themselves and taking a dozen or two innocents with them, certainly we've earned the right to laugh at a cartoon depicting Mo running out of virgins in heaven. We should find a way to laugh at burkas and submission to the point of slavery, but it sure isn't funny. The comedians have quite a job to do.
Muslims in the Netherlands have criticised a government proposal to ban Muslim women from wearing the burqa or veil in public places.
the boat to Muslim Country leaves at 11:00am....you can wear your veil.
tarikur Nov 17th, 2006 - 22:28:41
We all know why they can't ban the full Muslim veil or hijab because Nuns wear the same veil for the same reason.
hey goofball..show me a nun who covers her face?....then crawl back under your rock.
Reversal of direction considered, should the Burka be required by all human-kind, the 'outlaw' of wearing Burkas would then be a requirement for all to 'wear burkas' making it illegal for anyone to go uncovered.
Florida concealed weapons permits allowing people to 'carry' has diminished the amount of crime.
Criminilization of Burkas carries an extremely heavy toll on Islamic populations of the world, as it is in direct proportion to how 'uncovered' a woman is, as to the degree which she is then found to be a prostitute. Outlawing Burkas for Secular reasons, then 'forces' an unhealthy concept of whoredom on the Islamic populations.
Consider reversal of said ban on the Burkas, and making them Required for all females everywhere, then you have an imposition on the freedoms of those who wish not to cover themselves.
Although they are not immediately badly thought of by those Secular Institutionalists of the world governments, they are not often considered to be 'Nice' girls by the Islamic populations, and those 'uncovered' are often considered to be the 'Cause' of males being overtly obnoxious. You even see the news concerning Imams making their case that uncovered women are like raw meat for the cats?
Where, perchance, is the middle ground on the issue of Protection of Religious Freedoms, and the imposition of Secular law upon the masses? If, in fact, there were truly a seperation of Church/State, then Banning the Burka (By law), is very much the same as telling the females to 'Hire themselves out', or is such a thing forbidden in European countries? No, in fact, it is freely practiced, and there is a marked distinction between the 'Married, or marriage-aged' females of Islamic faith system, and those of Holland, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc., etc., etc.
Demands for 'Inclusiveness' by way of 'undressing', thereby precludes acceptance within the Islamic populations, immediately targeting those Moslem women for 'actionable offense' to Islam.
Sharia, being a law within the Islamic faith system, 'Takes care of' such unbelievers, or apostates of Islamic belief. Relegating all Moslem women to a 'Rape' in direct proportion to their 'Nakedness'.
Bravo, let the dance begin. Never in a thousand years would I have suspected that the populations of Europe would have been DIRECTLY responsible for the fulfillment of Nostradamus' predictions of a HOLY WAR in Europe, induced by a simple law that states, 'Let your hair down, Girl'.
The country has a perfect right to dictate what traditions and what values systems are compatible with its own. Whether the masses of religiously deluded cretins allowed into the country like European liberties or rules is irrelevant. They are not European if they choose not to be. Therefore, their choice is to comply, leave, or to not show their faces by staying away from free people.
Islam and the people from those countries which place its thoughts on 'god's will' above humanity belong in a place where their ideas are compatible. Where the followers of Islam have been rejected in their will to impose beliefs and traditions on others, they should leave.
Murder, willful ignorance in defiance of education and demands for monetization of the protection and teaching of their beliefs as separate but subsidized thought regimes should be stomped out. Become or begone!
rock n roll rules the world , or atleast it will , untill all of you religious fear-mongers ascert your fairy tales again . but we've been kickin bozo's ass for thousands of years ; and i guess we'll just have to keep doin it , untill you may overcum your fear . Quote , ' if you don't like rock n roll , i'ts to late now ' . yes yes ; you can believe in me . we've got nothing to lose . baseically what i'm saying here is , it is , going to be turned-up to 10 , one way or the other . ya'll dig ?
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MatthewNov 17th, 2006 - 21:41:34
At the outset this issue seems like an utter violation of individual expression, and under the bill's current form, it probably is. But the issue really needs to be framed by Holland's ultra liberal unemployment benefits. The true issue is that women wearing burkas are difficult to hire due to the obvious communication and representation issues that come with concealed identity. Since women wearing burkas are harder to hire -- the issue of 'freedom of religion' translates directly into a huge burden for the state. This is a massive problem with no easy answer. Rather than ban the wearing of burkas, a more sensible solution might be to reduce unemployment benefits for those who wear burkas. Religious freedom must be respected and tolerated -- but when that religious freedom represents a great cost to all other taxpayers, society as a whole is 'paying' for that religion. What if a hypothetical religion forbade women to work at all? Would society be willing to shoulder their unemployment benefits? Clearly not. Therefore a religion which restricts the ability of women to work by some degree, should also benefit to a lesser degree.
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