Europe News
Germany issues arrest warrants for 13 suspected CIA agents
Jan 31, 2007, 13:10 GMT
Munich - German prosecutors on Wednesday issued arrest warrants for 13 people believed to have been working for the American CIA in connection with the 2003 abduction of German national.
The 13 suspects were crew and passengers on an aircraft which flew the victim - Khaled el-Masri - from Macedonia to Afghanistan.
El-Masri was detained on the Macedonian-Serbian border in December 2003 and was then reportedly flown to Kabul in a plane which arrived from the Spanish airport at Palma de Mallorca.
A Muslim of Lebanese origin who lives in southern Germany, el-Masri says he was imprisoned by US agents in Macedonia and tortured in Afghanistan, then released. He said the Americans accused him of being a terrorist.
A parliamentary inquiry into the case has been told that then US ambassador to Germany, Daniel Coats, informed Berlin officials on May 31, 2004 that el-Masri had been mistakenly detained, then freed.
© 2007 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
blog comments powered by DisqusLatest Headlines in Europe
- 1. Pope in Easter message calls for peace and religious tolerance
- 2. Magnificent Messi leads Barcelona to ninth straight win
- 3. Pope leads Easter vigil, calls for "true enlightenment"
- 4. Barcelona increase pressure on Real with romp in Zaragoza
- 5. Pope Benedict XVI leads Easter Vigil
Older Talkback
page: 1 2
1984 is here today! The US government can make you go bye-bye forever now, and everyone is asleep. Go back to your TV’s - watch hard-hitting news on FOX and CNN – don’t look out your windows, we are in control now. Sleep my friends sleep. Freedom is work! The great leader will decide - he is now the decider!
As an American - I'm not ashamed at all. I don't apologize for anybody for protecting our nation and if that means torture, then oh well -- maybe the terrorists should find a new line of work.
It is easy to take a headline and turn it into a US bashing party, isn't it? People with an agenda put out stories that influence their point of view, and many Americans want to jump in so fast that they leave common sense behind.
I say let's act like adults, think like adults, and wait for the facts to come out . If we are to be ashamed, it is because too many Americans blame on accusations and act as if there is only one side to the story.
@Trice: We are ashamed. Trust me. More than half of this nation didn't vote Bush in 2000, and now the other half are even starting to regret.
We're not.Some of us are tired over rolling over and allowing the concerns of 1 to kill the innocence of many. Wake up. For you may find your head rolling on the floor next.
Why should the world be surprised if we finally respond in kind to the way our people have been treated globally for the last twenty years?
> I hope Americans everywhere are ashamed that this is happening.
I am American, I am unhappy that this is happening and cannot wait until November 2008, but you would be naive to think that this is an 'American' issue.
Left wing German prosecutors using arrest warrants for American undercover officers smacks of Gestapo 1939. Germany, like most European left wing governments, mix politcs with their justice system. I do not condone the treatment this man recieved but the proper place for justice is in the civil court rather than the criminal. German 'justice' is not justice when you hate America and use your justice system to get even for political differences with us.
i am an american, and i am sad that things like this are done in my name. i am sad that people like the guy before post things like they do. they give all americans a bad name. i wish we could live in a world where there was peace. if you want to see and read about someone who had the right idea go to http://www.billhicks.com/ and read about him. he was a good american.
> Left wing German prosecutors using arrest warrants for American undercover officers smacks of Gestapo 1939.
The arrest warrants are for German citizens who aided in the event, not the American agents. Read the article before spouting crap please.
Not ashamed at all. We're prosecuting terrorists wherever they might be. This includes your backyard. If other governments won't stop them, we will. Plain and simple. Do you like how lawlessness pervades Somalia? There's no one in charge. No authority. Would you like that to happen to your neck of the woods as terrorists flood in?
I've been ashamed for the last six years my friend.
You live in a small part of a big world. There is no peace - recall the terrorists who smashed planes into WTC buildings in order to kill innocent civilians. Not killing troops. Not targeting government officials. Everyday people. They don't discriminate between Democrats, Republicans, Independents. Wake up and realize terrorists don't care about your political votes or what you want for a better world. They want you dead and will do it with cold blood running through their veins.
U.S. does not believe in torture and will not practice it. So they just transport the poor souls to where they can be tortured.Bush is not innocent.
The only shame comes from a media that spreads messages of doubt and wants you to feel guilty. Think for yourself.
No, we Americans are not ashamed.
We may have made a mistake, but not a big deal in the overall context. Wait untill it happens...and it will...somewhere a terrorist cell will do the big one and than you libs will be criticizing the police for not protecting you from the bad guys!
The Germans really don't need us anymore ..after we protected them for fifty years and airlifted food to keep them for starving via the Berlin Airlift. The list goes on and on as the young Euros have no clue as to why their not goose stepping during May Day Parades.
You in Europe have large Muslum populations to deal with.....Just consider the headlines from today 1-31-07 about the planned beheadings in Great Britain and keep complaining about the mistreatment of one guy....
Many of us in the states consider high taxes more important than the mistreatment of one Muslim. Not a very big deal!
Arizona, U.S.A.
> terrorists don't care about your political votes or what you want for a better world.
That's an ignorant point of view. You've been brainwashed by Bush-ocracy my friend.
FBI Info Update!Jan 31st, 2007 - 14:25:42
Shoot first!
Those are the names of reckless and cold-harded serial-killers:
James Faring
Jason Franklin
Michael Grady •
Lyle Edgar Lumsden III
Eric Matthew Fain
Charles Goldman Bryson
Kirk James Bird
Walter Richard Greesbore
Patricia O Riley
Jane Payne James
O Hale
John Richard Deckard
Hector Lorenzo
AAhh the american way... Why not kidnap those terrorist? The CIA takes action on reliable intel, because the German government doesn't have anything close to an agency like the CIA. This guy who wrote the statment above sounds like a block-headed European (with exception of the great United Kingdom and the Swiss). Germany has a soft government and the citizens are living day by day happy and unprotected until that one terrorist, and all it takes is one, gets his call to murder them. Then I guarenttee you that you would be accepting these policies because they protect German's and our way of living. When the guy says he's been tortured, then let him prove it then pursue those individuals because those individuals did it malicously outside the CIA's policies.
We, the best friend and closest neighbour to the USA have cleared Maher Arar of the injustices done against him and have paid him compensation for his rendition to Syria by the USA and his torture there. He is still listed on the American 'no-fly' list with assertions that the USA has other evidence. That evidence has not been offered to our public or to him.
If there is strong evidence that the allegations against him are true, let them be known; do not hide behind patriotic rhetoric and political ass-covering.
The USA has been and should continue to be a champion of freedom and rights for the individual. Let your laws prevail.
Alan
. . .forgot to put Angela Merkel on the Urgent FBI Info list. Shoot at first sight!
>No, we Americans are not ashamed.
Please don't speak for me, I have my own voice. You war mongering, dumbed-down Bushites might not be ashamed (probably because you lack the intelligence to realize you should be...or perhaps you're too busy watching NASCAR and pursuing a harder hard-on and bigger SUV) but I am.
. . .those Germans responsible for ordering and issuing the arrest warrants will be liquidated. This is not a game — it's BLOODY serious.
Villanus...why aren't you in school today?
The second part of your handle is quite interesting......and appropriate!
And...like...Oh, my Gosh!...he actually lived to tell the tale!...Unlike our fellow Americans who have been kidnapped by terrorists, used as propaganda, and then beheaded. When are we going to stop pandering to the 'politically correct' mentality and just do what needs to be done to take out terrorists. Assuming what this guy is saying is true, I could only thank those involved. Regardless of whether or not he is lying, this development makes the world less safe because it makes those fighting terror hesitant to take the extreme measures necessary. If he's not intimately involved with terrorists, he's at the very least aiding and abetting - and so is the German government. With friends like the Germans and the French, who needs enemies?
'Please don't speak for me, I have my own voice. You war mongering, dumbed-down Bushites might not be ashamed (probably because you lack the intelligence to realize you should be...or perhaps you're too busy watching NASCAR and pursuing a harder hard-on and bigger SUV) but I am.'
This is the kind of talk that all intellectually lazy liberals resort to when even the slightest scrutiny reveals the flaws in their arguements.
Common Sense is like Good Taste - you have to actually have a little to understand it!
Hand-Tied America said:
'If he's not intimately involved with terrorists, he's at the very least aiding and abetting - and so is the German government. With friends like the Germans and the French, who needs enemies?'
Where is your evidence for that offensive assertion? Be very careful or you might find yourselves completely without friends, including other democracies.
A Canadian conservative and retired military officer,
Alan
Bravo Germany for taking such action. Of course you will not be surprised when Dubya and Company laugh in your faces. The US administration is out of control because greed = oil = world domination = the United States Government.
This, from one who lives there. The travesty is only just beginning.
>Villanus...why aren't you in school today?
Perhaps if we had spent the 362 billion dollars we have squandered in Iraq on the 17,581,946 college scholarships it could have paid for I would be in school. By the way, nice grade school humor with the anus thing, moron.
Why the hell is anyone questioning the U.S. Whats even more sad, is when those people questioning us gets in a conflict guess who they turn to first. Lets see WWI, WWII, Cold War, the list goes on and on. When your little country gets there rights violated and you come crawling to us for help, even after all the shit talking, I will stand up, bleed, and fight for your rights, family and country along side you and these strong, heroic americans.
The Uniyed States Government is run by the world corporate conglomerate.
It is all about power. Whoever controls the oil has the power. It is not about money. It is about power. Human beings do not matter. Flying human beings around the world blundfolded does not matter to these people.
POWER is what matters. THAT is what human beings the world over are up against.
> Why the hell is anyone questioning the U.S.
Because not questioning your leadership leads to situations like Nazi Germany - abuse of power and fear of having an opinion. You can't just sit back and assume that everything is ok and they know better than you do.
Go back to school and learn to think for yourself.
-Ford, proud American, ashamed of America's leadership and blind right.
usa_123, please check your history and learn from it. The USA was extremely slow to enter the first and second world wars. The first countries who responded other than those directly attacked were from elsewhere in the world. During the early Cold War, the first and best lines of defence were here and in Europe.
Don't give us the crap about how you saved the world with your John Wayne cowboy antics. You have always needed allies who set the field for you to look like heroes. Don't blow us away with your arrogance.
Alan
To usa_123:
It's not even worth wasting the water to pee on that shitty little country named Germany — believe me. We Americans sacrificed 406,000 of men and trillions in dollars to free the Germans from Hitler and Soviet domination. All we've been getting in return are knives in our backs — so srcew 'em!
What is a shame is that such covert operations were exposed, America should be eliminating those who uncovered the rendition program. The stakes are high and the terrorists took the gloves off sometime ago.
Hahah.... Whats even more funny is this damn Canadian is under USA protection... I guess you must be high on the weed you've been smoking up there and the free prescription drugs.. Does Canada even have an army?.. Oh well, bottom line is we went over seas and helped the cause, did we not? I wonder what Canada would do if some planes ran into there building, sit there and cry? Or come begging for US's help.?
Hey, U.S. Patriot:
'We Americans sacrificed 406,000 of men and trillions in dollars to free the Germans from Hitler and Soviet domination.'
The Soviets lost millions in the second world war, as did the European countries. Their sacrifices allowed you to step in an look like heroes later. Your late intervention was very welcome of course.
But you're not the only ones who fought against communist or fascist ambitions. In fact you have fostered several fascist regimes.
Have you read any history? What do you know about geography? Apparently very little.
Alan
No response... Typical, let me repost this....Hahah.... Whats even more funny is this damn Canadian is under USA protection... I guess you must be high on the weed you've been smoking up there and the free prescription drugs.. Does Canada even have an army?.. Oh well, bottom line is we went over seas and helped the cause, did we not? I wonder what Canada would do if some planes ran into there building, sit there and cry? Or come begging for US's help.?
usa_123, we also lost people on 9/11.
Let's try to talk about fact rather than fiction. Canadian armed forces have been among the best in the world. Who do you think is handling the most difficult areas of Afghanistan? It's not you.
Alan
usa_123 yes and the liberal government would not provide them funds so the Canadian Navy decided to play the game of politics and pulled from NATO exercises citing lack of funds.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2007/01/26/navy-nato.html
Hey guys... Can you imagine this doped up Canadian on the battle field... haha.. Damn in general, can you imagine any Canadian fighting... LOL
We choose our wars carefully.
Alan
US patriot forgets that at end of WWII the USA got Werner von Braun & his team, plus a load of V2 rockets. To the Moon without Werner? I don't think so.
Of course, the USA also has a record of refusing to extradite terrorists. Remember all those cuddly IRA guys? And these state sponsored CIA kidnap gangs were active in Italy as well as Germany.
>This is the kind of talk that all intellectually lazy liberals resort to when even the slightest scrutiny reveals the flaws in their arguements.
Just wondering, what flaw was that? Also, I saw no slight scrutiny, I saw some jingoistic bellicose slow wit putting words into my mouth as an American citizen, decided to act on it and was confronted with potty humor and an accusation that I was uneducated. So far as the same talk goes, if we're all saying it perhaps it could be true?
Alan,
Seems you've been popping too many funny pills up there in Canada — one of the nasty side-effects of socialized medicine.
With regards to WWII: In order to fight the Nazis, the Soviets received both military and humanitarian aid from the USA on an unprecedented scale without which the Russians would have all ended up in concentration camps and Siberia Germanized.
Learn your history, dude.
Where do you think all of those airplanes landed on 9/11 once the USA finally figured out that they couldn't intercept? Canada.
The NORAD of my day wouldn't have hesitated; they'd have been on their mission with the right precautions but those towers would still be standing if not for incompetency within your government and bureaucracy.
Alan
I'm going to bail out from this conversation. Jingoistic attitudes are something I have little patience for. I've said my piece earlier, with patience and history backing me; to USA citizens, consider whether your post 9/11 attitudes, actions and laws are what you really need in this world.
A friend of the USA,
Alan
I don't hold everything our goverment does to be completely legal or in the view of the entire world unobjectionable. I do expect our goverment to continue to fight against terrorism where ever it is found. Goverments are as people, sometimes right and sometimes wrong. I think maybe we as people, not American or German or English or Arab or Muslem or Jew or Christian need to wake up to the fact that extremism is the problem here. The American people, of which I am one, cannot control the world, nor for the most part do they want to, Business does though. So ask yourself if business is running your country? Tell me a country that does not respond to it's financial interests and I can tell you of a countrty that lacks the means to do, not the desire.
haha.... This Canadian is trying too hard and his arguments are not based on anything except his doped up head.... Lets move on to the article at hand..
Kidnapping and Torturing...
You're the one with jingoistic attitudes, Alan, so it doesn't surprise me that you're bailing out from this conversation. And before posting next time, do us a favor and learn some basic history.
I think we're gonna enlighten the Canadian guy, and for the other Canadian Army guy, who do you think is securying Afghan, its not you?
Anyway, I personally did not vote for Bush the second time. I agree for the war in Afghan but not in Iraq, but it is to late for that and obviously now its about finding a solution to the mess. We can't leave now.
About the article.. I think they should kidnap the Canadian guy... j/k
Criminals accuse others of what they themselves are doing. Take a moment or two to really ponder this. You might be surpirsed at your answer.
It is about time we start fighting fire with fire. We send our money and our civilian people all over the world to help. We receive no acknowledgement for anything and little if any help from other countries when we have a catastrophe. This is not a perfect country nor a perfect government but it is the best in the world. The freedom that we have allows for speaking out in forums such as this, in many countries around the world this would not be permitted. God Bless America
To be ignorant about the history of ones own country and then to adopt my 'country right or wrong' as the banner of that country boy attitude is shameful. Give the Man child a gun mix that attitude with the well documented brutality of America, Britain and Israel then what hope for freedom and democracy?
The leaders of the Axis of Evil (as above) have committed International Crimes against Humanity .. Any time .. Any place .. Any excuse ..
We are the ruling race of the world. We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, under God, of the civilization of the world. He has marked us as his chosen people. He has made us adept in government that we may administer government among savage and senile peoples.
Senator. Alfred Beveridge Indiana
The Zionists and Evangellyfish have a lot of blood on their skirt and tentacles .. and a lot of murder on the mind. But its all coming apart the crimes such as the slaughter of 665.000 Iraqi's and the ongoing bestiality has become so great that it can no longer be covered up.
Iran should be the second ass kicking for the global bully it appears that nothing was learnt from Vietnam.
What are you talking about? I mean, I've read your post a few times now and I cannot for the life of me figure out what you are trying to communicate.
Sounds like this guy has been brainwashed. Interesting that he says give a boy a gun when Hamas and other middle eastern countries recruit 16 year old and younger children and now they are fighting with each other in Palestine. Killing isn't the answer, its communication and peace. Its sad to see a religious and historical great region go down the toilet for the beliefs of the few and the violent nature of them. what do you think?
Both last posts are absolutely right. We are a great country and with such greatness comes great responsibility. The current leadership has transformed America into a loose and dangerous cannon. Not only has America decalred 'war on terrorism' America has also declared a covert war against the citizens of it's own country. There is more at work here my friends. The ole heee haw mentality of 'love it or leave it' is just whistling past the grave yard and at the end of the day just cowardice.
Hey we will take who we want when we want. We are the greatest country in the world!! We should round up the libs and ship them to camps, they could be used as slaves to build our SUVs.
Conspiracy theory.... Very typical for a crazy nut.
Asd,
Keep your head in the sand bro. Like I said..... Whistling past the graveyard.
Mirror,
that will be your job at the camp. Bolt on my new mirror. Move if you dont like it you looser!!!
There's no way you can be serious with your responses. You either are just trying to wind everyone up or your a nazi commie. Either way your nuts. You should just go find a monster truck pull or something.
LOL..... Are you kidding me.. Mirror is a fat slob that runs to the window everytime a car passes by...... THERE OUT TO GET ME.... THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!! Give it up.
What else is new?
Oh yeah, Ivor... All that crazy talk will probably have you in the crosshairs of the CIA and FBI then probably Gitmo Bay. Then you, the chosen one will have a comfortable cell.
Your confused and a communist. I hope they raid your house and find all your porn and arian nation stuff. Even your friends have made jokes about it.
Even Babe Ruth struck out... So we made a mistake, the man is still alive, so it's just too bad he went through some discomforts, that's life. As far as warrants for Us CIA people like they used their real names. DUH... Like those warrants will sit in a file for ever. Now let someone like Hiliary Clinton get her hands on something like this and she would most likely turn over the agents to Germany. Whatever happend to guts Americans used to have. I think they all died off or are process, all of our World War II Vets. Those were patriotic men and women. We need soemone to tell Germany and the rest of the World, 'Stick in your rear' 'Don't mess with us or you will get your ass kicked.' Sonny Barger from the Hell's Angles has the right philosphy on life..
'Treat me nice and I'll treat you nicer' 'Treat me bad and I'll become your worst nightmare'... So Germany stick it, tough poop, just go about your business and don't worry about America... You and France, two coward nations...
Some of the Americans writing on here are as ignorant as the stereotype for Americans goes - their government is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity left right and centre, and they still buy the terrorist threat nonsense. The only terrorists threatening the world are those in the Bush administration and Blair's government (which is thankfully crumbling). America is becoming a fascist police state right under their noses while their military attack sovereign nations with no (or fabricated) evidence, and they still buy every bit of trumped up propaganda the media spills out. When will they learn?
usa123..
We are the ruling race of the world. We will not renounce our part in the mission of our race, trustee, under God, of the civilization of the world. He has marked us as his chosen people. He has made us adept in government that we may administer government among savage and senile peoples.
Senator. Alfred Beveridge Indiana.
Just in case you didn't get it first time. Then tell all of us what it is that you do not understand about that despicable attitude as demonstrated by Beveridge.
I served my flag for 9 years with the same sort of dumb cluck attitude displayed in some of the posts in this forum. The awakening when it came was painful .. I was on the honor guard and firing party for 3 of my comrades on separate occasions.
The screaming and the dying was a Gothic nightmare initiated by bloody business men, politicians and clergy. Wake up your country needs you at home.Whatever these CIA thugs have been doing in counties around the world is also being done to Americans and this inside America. The CIA practice on lesser nations first.
Homeland Security have already built the internment camps for American Citizens .. please be careful .. when one can support rendition .. it indicates an advanced case of brain rot along with that of Senator Beveridge. and more recently by such people as Bolton with his heartless and public remarks about Iraq.
When America rescues the Constitution the whole world will give a huge sigh of relief. Oh and I hope the German Courts ensure that justice is done.
President Bush happens to be our currant Comander and Cheif. As a Vetran of our great country's Armed Forces, I support him and all of our combat troops. I am willing to bet most of you folks making your negative coments, have not, nor would you stand up for yourself, let alone our awsome Nation. So go back and talk your trash to all who will listen, because I for one will not. Pray you don't talk your trash in front of our Vetrans, I would'nt blame them for giving you a quick lesson in Hand To Hand Combat.
You say this and that... Explain to me why is the majority of the violence even prior to the invansion lie in the middle east. They promote violence (they meaning the terrorist). Lets think, World Trade Center bombing, kidnapping of jews during the olympics, bombings on other muslim nations like Lebanon, Turkey, Pakiston, Iraq, Afghan. The list goes on and on. Why can't those countries be more like Kuwait or Saudi Arabia.
You're right. I cannot determine from my seat who is right and who is wrong. As in Nazi Germany, the media is the political mouthpiece to say what ever moves their agenda. Reading between the lines is a difficult but dangerous game. Following the crowd is even worse. Look what happened to Jesus! We are incapable of discerning for ourselves whats really going on due to lack of information. WHat can we do?? Always look to the past to see into the future. Fascism, Communism, Marxism, Capitalism, it really doesn't matter when voices are silenced and hope begins to fade, the people always fight back in the end...have we Americans met that end, yes but the beauty of our nation is that we have a 4 year RESET button. 2008 is coming...RESET.
Never be ashamed to be an American but never be too proud of the fact either. Your heart, and your mind are all we CAN control. If we all strive to be the best Humans possible, Society will prosper.
Here're some facts about the US for you:
Their secret services tests chemical weapons on the American population
They put mercury in the vaccinations your children are forced to take, causing an unprecedented increasing in cases of autism
They're putting flouride in your water
You are all viewed as terrorists - READ THE DEFINITION OF TERRORIST IN THE PATRIOT ACT
The government intends to introduce ID cards for all citizens. These will be graded on how important you are
Military equipment is being sold to police departments across the country for use against US citizens
Fox News is a propaganda front run by elements of the CIA
FEMA camps are being set up across your country to house dissidents
Your government has nothing but contempt for its citizens
I could go on for hours but I don't have the time...
Wow... Sounds like that guy really pissed you off and you have hate in what you say there.. Hate blocks reason and all the emotions your expressing clouds your judgement. How can you say all that about 'the chosen ones' and point your finger at the US when your bitching and moaning like a woman on her period. Get your thoughts right and push those emotions aside. Then I will respect and try to understand your position.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
This guy doesn't know what the hell is going on in reality... World Order is loony. Do you know what day it is? Okay, where is the hard facts to your insane accusations. Let me guess, you had a dream and thats good enough.
I don't agree with everything he's saying either, but don't be a fool. All government agencies LOVE blind people like yourself, which makes you a dangerous citizen for the rest of us. Liberty is always silenced.... Jesus, Dr. King...even John Lennon. The citizens who make sure they are not pushed around (Even those who take it over the top) are absolutely necessary to keep the government honest.
Hey i just think it's funny that people with such large amounts of information at their fingertips can't stomach a little bit of research about things before they post crap about american bashing. Wake up and realise that ignorance and national pride are two different things and only one of them is the reason that americans are disliked. Pig headed political views espousing crap about terrorist threats doesn't condone illegal behaviour that you couldn't commit in your own backyard. Ha!! And your the people that waffle on about democracy and Justice. Go buy a dictionary....
...who figured it out. Anyone who thinks Bin Laden and his band of right wing, anti working class, religious fanatics had only small support among a billion Muslims is either a fool or a liar. What happened to this unfortunate German citizen has happened thousands of times before at the hands of essentially the same people. And it didn't start with 9/11. Some of the faux leaders of the Muslim world only display their political bankruptcy by engaging in terrorist acts against working people. They could care less about the differences between Stalinism, imperialism, 'democracy', capitalism--they have no more to offer working people of the world than Pat Robertson! Viva Cuba!!
What the hell are you talking about. Alright I'll start thinking like you guys.. My 90 year old grandma is a danger to all, I hope the CIA takes her down quickly and the Jessica Simpson is the most dangers of them all, she's a sleeper cell... LOL.. You guys are a joke. Please keep this forum with opinions you can back up with facts or actually some decent theories. I'm waiting to be intrigued.
I always find it amazing when a group preaches against intolerence, then in the next sentence makes fun of an ethnic group, ie. making fun of those who go to monster truck rallies or NASCAR events. It seems the only group it is PC to make fun of now is the white christian male. Equality should be fought for, but not by putting down another group.
As for the fellow getting tortured, I am against torture for any reason, ask some of our Vietnam veterans that were POW's why that should not be practiced, but not against the US dealing with terrorists threats. As stated before, he may have been mistakenly detained, but he was released alive. not beheaded on video.
Former debts, ie. the US coming to the rescue in previous wars, provide no free pass for future irrational actions, but all countries. ie. Germany and France should use common sense with dealing with these situations. Politics, compounded by media glamoritization, are killing us. Personally, I'm tired of seeing only US criticism on the news. Let's give some equal air time to the good things being done by the US, such as fighting for equality among religous sects, women having rights in the middle east, and taking a murderous dictator out of power. Let's not go to far with our crticism of our president either. Many forget that the foreign policy of a previous non-conservitive president contributed largely to the 9/11 attacks. Weakening the CIA aside, he sent troops to the same areas, but pulled them out at the first sign of blood. A lot of people forget that Clinton did use the US military, I myself was dropped inot the middle east meat grinder when it was time for his re-election. It wasn't a humanitarian mission either, you don't send in an artilleryman to provide humanitarian aid.
Sorry for being all over the place, I came in late.
SGT MAC
U.S. Army
....'taking a murderous dictator out of power?'
Were you referring to Augusto Pinochet? The Shah of Iran? Anastazio Somoza? Francisco Franco? Peter Botha? 'Papa Doc' Duvalier? Batista?
No wonder you're a military lifer. Cynics don't have to think for a living and it's easy money!!!
In regards to New World Order,
It is easy to sit outside the USA and make comments like that. When you get all of your information from CNN and Micheal Moore. That kind of 'fact gathering' leads to great misinterpretaion of culture. How would other contries like it if we based our opinions on other countries from movies made by citizens that hate their own country. Unfortunatley, the reports from those who have actually been to the Middle East don't confirm those from most of the American Media. This leads one to question the rest of the news.
Fox News may seem like they cater to the Conservitive crowd, but CNN doesn't draw fire for catering their news to the Liberal crowd, why is that?
PS. In the USA the New World Order is a now extinct group of pro-wrestlers, so get out the tights and knee length boots, we'll oil up and break out the steel folding chairs.
Actually, I'm an engineer. I got out after almost a decade of service. I put the rank and branch to show my affilliation. I'd be happy to compare IQ's, common sense, or even arm wrestle. The dictator I was speaking of was the one in Iraq who didn't have any qualms about exterminating larges groups of his own people.
usa_123, you are very quick to criticize others for not reporting factual history. Let's hear some of those supposed facts from you. I'd be happy to rebut. Your view of history is rather different from mine.
Yes, I said I'd bail out from this conversation earlier, but I'd like to get it back on topic with evidence, not just posturing. I started this with my reporting of what had happened to Maher Arar, a Canadian with dual citizenship, previously Syrian. Let's get back to rendition and violation of treaties with friendly countries rather than just your patriotic vitriol.
The USA has triggered violence against innocent citizens of your friendly democratic allies and has not recanted or apologized in the face of damning evidence.
A friend admits his hurts to others else he does not remain a friend.
Alan
Thanks for your service. However, the man on the ground is not the one the world is pissed at, and being number one in the world requires a little bit of humility. The remark that the previous non-conservative president is responsible for this is not true...this crap goes way back to the Eisenhower years. When the 1950s mentality of confrontation of communism started painting the world in a monochromatic pallet. And we picked up all the pieces of all the imperialistic states that previously occupied the world's 'lesser' nations, with glee might I add. Why because capitalism loves a deal, and the same reason we proclaimed a 'manifest destiny'. Just ask the REAL AMERICANS whom we displaced with deals that were lies, booby trapped treaties that were coerced. Anyhow, at first the world really did believe in us over the commies. And rightly so, for we were not like them. We did export peace and prosperity, and people even invited us to help them. This went on a long time until Viet Nam, that war caused the skepticism that fouled into cynacism....and once you go cynic, you never go back...
Anyhow, that is the history of how we got here because by the end of that era, Reagan was dealing with the same regieme that held american's hostage for 444 to counter a threat with illicit money in this hemispehre. By trying to play one arabic dictator against a theological state to fund religious extremists fighting an atheistic tyrannical state that neighbored both of them, over what??? OIL....rant rant rant
Bottom line is WE adopted EVIL tactics....
Be more specific on that Mr. Canada. Which allies, what treaties, and what evidence?
In regards to SGT,
There religion and people are there own business. Your just making an excuss to cover up the damning evidence of the 'weapons of mass destruction' we didn't go over there to free there people.
USA 123 ..
spoken like a true Zionist/Evangellyfish .. As for the veterans that have posted here .. tell me .. have the nightmares started to break through the psychic defenses yet? Its called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
But what it really is .. is Conscience oozing through the brainwashing.
And when you start talking of cross hairs that could be construed as a threat .. typical! If you are an evangellyfish then I suggest you read the words of your spiritual master.
Oh and a couple more facts to add to your corncob pipe.
Between 1898 and 1934, the Marines invaded Cuba 4 times, Nicaragua 5 times, Honduras 7 times, the Dominican Republic 4 times, Haiti twice, Guatemala once, Panama twice, Mexico 3 times and Columbia 4 times,” Washington has intervened militarily in foreign countries more than 200 times.
Then add Britains Imperial past and the Zionist bestiality .. that makes for a rather large pile of bodies that cannot be swept under the carpet. By those actions one is in no doubt as to how the real terrorists are .. It is common knowledge that many in the American Gulag of shame .. were rounded up and sold into slavery .. they have no rights whatsoever .. no respect for the rule of law .. no respect for the Geneva Convention .. the first corner stone of any true democracy is habeas corpus.
The renditions of the CIA have shamed America and revealed how paranoid a section of the USA is ..
The nightmares may come, but not because of conscience. Shooting some one of the same age and level of commitment to their cause isn't as easy as it looks in a movie, but sometimes it has to be done. I make no excuse for politicians, I think they should be on the front lines, maybe there were no nukes in development, I wouldn't rule that out completely, but the guy did kill his own people. We enjoy an insane amount of prosperity and safety here, I personally didn't mind helping a whole nation get a little back. Maybe I'm brainwashed, or maybe I'm not as narrow minded as some.
usa_123
I'll try to keep this current rather than historical.
Allies: Canada, Britain, western Europe including Germany and France. Recently many others who have become members in NATO.
Treaties: NATO, NORAD, UN.
The current issue of this posting is rendition and torture by another from a close ally (Germany) or one of my country-men a citizen of Canada, your closest ally, to a regime that tortures. The USA refuses to acknowledge the reasons or to defend them. If there is solid reason to maintain this extreme ostracism, let it be known, now.
Otherwise, you risk our friendship. No matter what you might believe, we have been the fiercest and most effective soldiers in modern history. We came to the conflict when we were needed and delivered. Ask the Dutch. Ask about Vimy. Were you there when we burned the White House in the first war you lost, in 1812?
In the meantime, challenge me any any question about military history and I'll be glad to debate the facts with you.
But that's not what this about. An innocent civilian has been torn from country. Don't get excessive.
No One ..
and for that 665,000 human beings men .. women and children have been slaughtered in Iraq?
As the American General of Marines said .. 'I was nothing more than a high class hit man for big business'.
I guess he should know.
Smedly Butler was the General that had the balls to tell the truth.
Man, I might as well call you a Zionist. Seems like you are obsessed in America. Hurry up chosen one and jump in the shower to cleanse yourself. LOL.. So let me guess, all of the past conflicts involved in the middle east through the centuries was okay because you did it for religion.. Your one dumb fuck.
Usa .. hup two three four ..
your mother obviously dropped you on your pointy head as a child.
My condolences.
To Ivor,
Keep in mind 90% of the 655,000 civilians killed are because of Iraqs. In detail IEDs, secreteran killings, Sunnis, Shites, there own people. What in the hell are you claiming, we're making Iraqs kill Iraqs? Your not so bright.
To Mr. Canada (I'm gonna start calling you dopey because I can tell you've been taking those free drugs and legal weed)
Are you kidding me... LOL.. One of the best militaries in the world. Sure.. The 300 soldiers and 2 helicopters you guys have.. But I sort of see where you might be going with the whole alley point. Your saying the US is taking into custody 'suspected' individuals, or what your refering to innocent citizens. Thats because they have the power to do so, thanks to the fact that the president authorized them with the power, only if it is based on evidents including large amounts of intel. I agree on it depending on what intel it is, but don't get it twisted and say this is America's vision as a whole. There is a lot of people who feel the same in different aspects, but its the presidents choice to exercise his power and there is a lot of things he does that is dumb as hell, but he's in that position. Don't get things twisted and say that the president's views is Americas view. Thats just like you running over a cat maliously and me saying thats Canadas views of animals, instead of pointing out the individual responsible. Thats where your arguement dies.
Haha... Ivor.. and your mother jumped on the head of my dick and created you child.
Usa hup two three four.
think Fallujah .. get a uniform on pick up a gun and get out there .. Armchair Generals with medieval mind sets are 12 a penny .. or a dime if you prefer.
You are obviously the product of an inferior education system .. and as for being obsessed with the USA .. yes .. in the same way that one keeps an eye on a rattle snake.
Usa hup two three four ..
I am well past my use by date and my digestion is not quite up to that of the young sprogs but I can handle rattle snakes .. let me assure you that they dont taste anything like muffins.
My mother died many years ago .. so just have a little respect for the dead .. oh duh! and double Duh!! 665,000 dead Iraqi's .. there is definitely no respect for the dead.
I can tell from your remarks about rocks for chairs and a brainwashing cleric, that my supposition about the quality of your education was bang on target. You cannot see your own predicament ... what with brainwashing clerics and saluting the flag at school .. Fortunately I think the majority of Americans have seen through that. That is why the want American troops back home and with their families. That is what the majority of troops on the ground wish too.
You have leveled a charge about preaching hate against America? It appears my remark about rattle snakes was on target ... Trying to finger me to the Feds eh?
You are despicable .. piss off and stop wasting my time.
Since when has telling the truth been considered preaching hate .. I seem to have heard that tired old Zionist line on many chat boards. In case you have not yet bothered to look .. the truth is plastered all over the internet not just words .. but video evidence as well.
I think the German Justice Department did the whole world a favour in taking this principled stand against the American Secret Service. Because Rendition is the concept of a reptile mind.
page: 1 2
TriceJan 31st, 2007 - 14:21:09
Ahh democracy at work. I hope this gets completely blown up into an international incident. Abductions and torture should be looked upon with disgust and condemnation by everyone. If this is a war against terror by the United States, perhaps they should reconsider who the terrorists are. I consider anyone who kidnaps people and tortures them to be terrorists. And sadly this is not an isolated incident. I hope Americans everywhere are ashamed that this is happening.
Report this comment