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Riots rage in Tallinn as monument protest boils over (Roundup)
Apr 26, 2007, 23:27 GMT
Tallinn - Riots broke out Thursday night in central Tallinn as demonstrators protesting government plans to move a war memorial battled police and looted shops.
By 1 am (2200 GMT), rioters were 'committing acts of vandalism all over the city centre,' and six police officers had been injured in separate clashes, police spokeswoman Tuuli Harson told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.
'Most of them are pretty young, teenagers, and they're under the influence of alcohol. This isn't about the monument any more - it's just vandalism.'
The Red Army memorial has been at the centre of controversy since Estonians and Russians scuffled in May 2006 on the site.
Ethnic Russians say it honours Soviet troops who died liberating Europe from fascism. Estonian nationalists say that for them, Soviet victory brought Soviet oppression, not liberation.
Earlier this year, Estonia's nationalist government pledged to move the monument and the unknown number of graves it covers to a less central location, such as a military cemetery in Tallinn.
Despite the furious protests that the plan provoked both in Estonia's ethnic-Russian community and in neighbouring Russia, riot police fenced off the controversial war memorial and graves at dawn Thursday in preparation for the first exploratory excavations.
During the course of the day, up to 100 protesters gathered at the monument, some chanting anti-Estonian slogans. The protests remained peaceful, though nine people were detained and six subsequently charged with minor public-order offences.
The situation changed toward sunset, as up to 1,000 more protesters poured into the area, and the crowd's mood grew more aggressive. Once, demonstrators tried to break police lines but were driven back by blasts from a powder fire extinguisher.
Soon after sunset, a group of protesters began throwing stones at police, Harson said. Officers responded by throwing flash bombs and firing water cannon, and the crowd scattered.
The result was chaos, as gangs of rioters rampaged down narrow streets, skirmishing with police, smashing windows and breaking into cars and shops.
According to the website rus.delfi.ee, one of the first buildings hit was the headquarters of the Reform Party, whose leader, Prime Minister Andrus Ansip, initiated the move to relocate the memorial.
Security forces used water cannon, flash bombs and tear gas in attempts to restore order.
By 1 am (2200 GMT), more than 100 rioters had been arrested with reports of more still coming in, Harson said. But the violence continued, with gangs scattering across the city centre, setting fire to newspaper kiosks and damaging tramlines. A Hugo Boss fashion store, a cosmetics shop and a computer dealership were among the shops looted, rus.delfi.ee reported.
Five civilians were reported injured during the clashes, Baltic News Service BNS wrote. One had a broken leg, and the others had head injuries caused by flying projectiles, the wire said.
At midnight, Interior Minister Juri Pihl told ETV television that the situation was under control and that police 'would cope' with the disturbances.
An hour later, fresh reports of clashes were still coming in, with police sources saying that the situation was changing minute by minute.
With an unknown number of rioters still at large in the city, and more than four hours to go before dawn, Friday morning looked likely to bring Tallinn a grim reckoning after the night of the 'memorial war.'
© 2007 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
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Older Talkback
page: 1
Why they do that? why?
it was 2 from the spot
They did it because they have been brainwashed by the Russian propaganda machine.
The statue itself is not in any kind of danger and will be preserved anyway; the government is just trying to find an appropriate final resting place for the buried (presently the burial place is right near a traffic junction at the city centre). Nobody is going to destroy this statue like Estonian monuments were destroyed by Russians in the 1940s, when Estonia was occupied by Russia.
Please do not believe the Russian propaganda machine, which is trying to show these drunk marauders as victims.
Hey Tallinner what is your propaganda?
When i came there at 6 o'clock nobody was drunk.. Maybe few people who drunk a pint of beer.. that's all... There were families, teens, old men, estonian-speaking people too.. About 2000-3000 people who came there with flowers, to show their protest.. Why they do that? Is it important for you? You live with in one city.. Why you doesn't want to understand me?
This monument is symbol of people who died in WWII.. it is written on it.. millions of people who died for saving whole world from fascism... and now you want to pull down it?
Dear Dennis,
I think that after what you did there is nothing to understand. The world is now full of videos where everyone can see that the Russians were drunk, they were wild and this had nothing to do with the monument!
You have no more justification, the Russians have shown their real face.
The Russian 'liberators' did not liberate anything in the 1940s. My grandmother remembers that they were just as crazy and wild as those Russians who marauded yesterday in Tallinn and can be seen on the videos. Wherever Russian 'liberators' went, they did not leave but established new occupation.
Dear Dennis, it seems that you too are a victim of the myths distributed by the Russian propaganda machine. How can Estonians live in one city with such people who do not give a damn about our history, our feelings and our sufferings? You seem to forget that in the years 1940-1991 Russians were occupants in Estonia. Do not forget, Russians have devastated our country before! Before you speak of understanding, please try to understand others' feelings yourself. There is no justification to what RUSSIANS did here in Tallinn yesterday! SHAME ON YOU!
And nobody wants to pull the statue down. You have been brainwashed. The statue will be preserved! I said it before and let me repeat it: the statue will be preserved for people like you! Traffic junction in the centre of the city is not an appropriate place for a grave. Graves should be in peace at cemetery. Russians should rather refrain from desecrating their own burial places by actions of meaningless violence.
now now, dennis just needed a new pair of jeans
I must say I'm with 'on the spot' and Tallinner on this one and have little sympathy for the estonian russians (or whatever they want to be referred to, CCCP citizens maybe?)
Greetings from across the gulf and I hope peace will be restored in Tallinn. All the best.
I am a foreigner living in Tallinn and what I saw yesterday left me disappointed and embaraced. I had to reassure my mom about my safety. Everybody, please tell me: both the Estonian government and those Russians rioting have nothing more important to do in their lifes than to think so much about a statue ??? Why the government do not think instead to fix the Estonian roads which are a shame or to solve the problem of a still astonishing poverty which surrounds the rich tallinn city center ??? and again why the Russians instead of always complaining and crying of their situation do not finally start to accept that their are not living anymore in the Soviet Union and they should start to integrate in the Estonian Society ??? All of you...it is time to let your brains work and cut those bullshits out. THE SECOND WAR AND THE OCCUPATION ARE FINISHED, YOU ALL LIVE IN THE EUROPEAN COMUNITY NOW. DO NOT LIVE OF MEMORIES BUT THINK TO THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE OF YOUR COUNTRY IN A MORE POSITIVE WAY.
Well put Steve.. but then again stuff like this happens in every country.
You are right Finlander, but sorry this does not happen in every contry but only in those where the people let the ideology to replace the intelligence in their brains.
Hi
think that before people start commenting negatively about the Estonian government. They should take a good look at the history behind it.
Firstly they are not destroying the statue at all they are just relocating it.
Secondly that statue is of a Russian RED ARMY soldier. The same red army who murdered, raped, pillaged and euthanized tens of thousands of people all throughout the Baltics, not soldiers but civilians. They also occupied the countries of these people and sent members of their families to Siberia. This happened in Estonia as well as other countries. That statue while to a small percentage of the population might represent the army that fought the Germans. To the majority it represents the murder and deportation of many of its citizens and 50 years of occupation.
The fact is that the Estonian government is merely relocating it.
Think of it this way it is the equivalent of having a statue of a Japanese soldier in the Sydney city centre or in the centre of Washington.
as an outsider looking in I commend the Estonian government on how they have handled the situation and I hope that the Russian community in Estonia will see that they are only hurting themselves and their own standing as a race by needlessly destroying public property.
Instead if they want to do something then they should protest peacefully, like civilised people.
Dear Michael,
Nothing to comment about the history that everybody knows very well, but than why French, Spanish, Romanians, Israelis, English, North-Africans, Greeks, Portuguise are not removing the roman statues, monuments and walls they have in their countries, which have been occupied by the Roman Empire for almost 1000 years ? (yes not 40 years but almost 1000). Right or not what provoked this high instability (in both Ethnic Estonians and Ethnic Russians), in a otherwise very calm country, is just right the decision of removing a statue. The result now is that the relations with Russia (that is just a too big and powerful contry to have a confrontation with) are as more broken as ever before, the tourists are scared to come to Estonia, my clients are calling me to postpone commercial meetings and all this is slowly turning against the economy of the country. Well what can I say more ? a very good start for a just newly elected government. Tell me, is it possible the the first 'important' decision from a new goverment is the removal of a statue ? I repeat, is there nothing more important to think about ? For how long again we have to assist to this 'hate' between Estonians and Russians ? When all this will end ?
I support Estoniangovernment 100 per cent. It is only Estonia government elected by it's citizens can decided what to do in Estonia and not a neighbour from the east. Of course taht statue they could moved silently like here in lithuania we moved all soviet statues silently and put them to teh park of soviet sculptures, now people patys money to watch them, lol. and liek in latvia they had problems with russian schools. here we diminished number of russian schools silently even nobody said anything.
anyway keep on moving estonias and deport all those riot makers out of the country. they should understand that they not living in ussr no longer and that they go back to russia if they don't ,like here or accept rules of the country they live in.
Dear steve,
as living in estonia you should know very well situation about russian and estonian relations. The things is that russians themselves do not want to integrate to the society, second think they are not and never were loyal to estonian government. second thing that the the most 'protestants'(too good word to call them though) are not even citizens of estonia.
one more thing to add that local russians in baltic states are used by russian government to make instability in those countries and try to make preasure on those countries. and the less relation estonia willhave with russia there will be much better for teh country.
i have been to tallinn few times, last time i was there last summer and belive me local russians were also agresive then. and no doubts it is the most big number of criminals among them.
and if they say that they are treated so bad in estonia why they just do nto leave back toa countries whose citizens they are or where originaly they are from.
Dear all,
I tried to let everybody understand that for a stupid matter as a statue is, all the people in Estonia (when I say all I include all the Estonian citizens including the ethnic Russians and the foreigner citizens making business in Estonia) are now suffering of a very bad situation. Today afternoon, that is saturday, I saw most of the shops in the city center closed, very few people on the roads and unfortunately very few turists around. It would never happen in the past to see an almost desert Tallinn during a hot saturday. This is a very bad sign and the Estonian government should think more about that. The consequence of an act which was intended to be for the safety of the country (at least this is the official explanation from the prime minister) have just made the safety of the country unstable. If you do think that this is an illuminated decision, well I don´t. Even if a government have been elected by the citizens this does not means that it´s gonna take the right decisions (it is not god).
The problem is that the Estonians do not want to integrate as much as the Russians. When all of you will finish to fight for the past and will look instead to the future ???? Is there any possible way to let all of you understand this for god sake ????
Just to finish, tonight, like yesterday and the day before, instead of going out to enjoy the only free part of my life, as the rest is dedicated to work, I am obliged to stay home and this surely not for my fault.
i understand what u trying to say, but the thing is that the past is not so easy to forget, especially that there are lot's and lot's of witnesses who sufered deportations and repretions of soviets are alive. and that broze solder are no more than a memeory for that. i am sure almost every estonian family had sufered from it. so it is not so easy to just to forget it.
I understand the sufference of the Estonians but the life must go on even if it is sad. Those stupid young people I saw breaking everything do not even know what happened during the occupation and they are just doing this because nowadays the young people miss the correct education from the parents and do not have good ideals to follow. I have a suggestion for the Estonian government, instead of inventing stupid excuses like the country safety for removing a monument, say the true by showing to the people what in reality happened during the soviet union time in the schools, TV, public conferences etc. Show to the people what kind of hell have been Estonia under the occupation (both the nazist and communist). Convince them that actually the first ones suffering under the communist soviet union have been the Russians themselves and they should be the first ones to blame the past. I tell you what I think deeply: The second world war have been for the communists leaders in Russia the best thing that could happen to them in order to cover their internal brutalities and the best way to brainwash their own people. Today they are still using the memory of it once more to let the people believe in a model which tries to revive itself from the death. At the end however show also some mercy for those old people that goes on the 9th of may just to put some flower and make some prayer to those poor young people who died during the second war.
Dear Steve,
No offense, but are you really so naive? The CCCP killed thousands of innocents less than eighty years ago. Do you think that is something people can just forget? Family members were lost. Do you think Estonians are going to just move on when thirty percent of their country are Russians? When they were living with imposed politics and cultural restrictions until 1991? That was less than twenty years ago! They are trying to recover from severe oppression. I don't trust your naive and simple view because you don't seem to really care about Estonian culture. Go back to where you came from. You don't understand the Baltics.
well well, than live of memories forever...and I go back to my country when I want not when you say so stupid idiot. If all the peole investing here like me will leave, like you say, you´ll go back to eat shit like in the 90s (I have been here and I saw it with my eyes). Once you have scared away all the foreigners coming to invest tons of money in Estonia, what you will do ? you will go back to Russia ?????
BTW, the term naive, comes from the Latin word Nativus, which etimologically means 'Not Artificial' or 'Natural' (sorry for the short lesson). Well exactly so, the things I am saying are not artificial and natural because they come from the heart, while I see that the long oppression have unfortunately transformed yours in stones.
Actually, the problem is more far-going as it could seem at the first sight. The relocation of the monument of the Liberator of Europe from Fascism is the last drop which overflowed the cup of non-ethnical people's patience. Estonia has celebrated Fascism from 1992, the year of its 'freedom'. 2/3 of its tiny population are Russian-speakers with various roots, and since its 'liberation' Estonia has started the politics of oppression of these people. Russian was forbidden in establishments, and recently the company for closing Russian schools has begun. The special Inspection was created to kept under observation all those who pretends to obtain a good position but obviously is not estonain. All these are constantly examined in Estonian language until their Estonian was declared to be poor enough to have this or that work. The course of Estonian, by the way, costs 200-300 euro (usual salary 300-500 euro). Estonia didn't give the citizenship to all its people in 1992. Only those who had relatives living in Estonia until 1940 became the citizens. All others (at least 1/3 or more of population) were given ALIEN's passport. Nobody still knows where this country is, I guess somewhere in the universe. What happened last week was no suprise to anybody except Ansip. Sooner or later, the problem should come out.
P.s. one of the favourite estonian carnical costumes is of fascist garment. Just look at the private parties' photos or to estonian magazines.
Russia is igniting internal conflicts in neighboring Estonia
This has happened never before in Estonia, small peaceful country in Northern Europe, member of NATO and EU since 2004.
A Bronze Soldier, the statue in Soviet Red Army uniform standing until last Friday on small green square in centre of capital Tallinn, was for Estonians the symbol of harsh Soviet occupations from 1940 - 1941 and 1944 to 1991. Ten's of thousand people were deported without court decision to Siberia or killed in Soviet state-terror during that regime as a part of ethnic cleansing.
But part of the Russian community, migrated here within same Soviet occupation in search of better and European-style life, is following cold-war time Soviet history concept. For them these events and statue meant memorial of 'liberation' of Baltic States Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, as well as whole Europe in WW II.
Nazi equals Soviet
The problem is that Baltic States, but also Poland have suffered both from Nazi-Germany and Soviet occupations in WW II. And defeating the Nazi-Germany did not mean that Baltic countries were liberated, but that German occupation was changed by other, Soviet occupation, which in some cases was even worse.
Therefore Bronze Soldier was a symbol of Soviet empire and simply could not been tolerated any longer in centre of capital of EU and NATO member country. Especially because within last years it was increasingly used by Putin propaganda-machine as a Russian symbol to generate tension in Estonia between whole society and less integrated smaller part of Russian community.
So it was inevitable to relocate it from Tallinn city centre, leaving still chance for those, who have different opinions, chance to visit the statue on military cemetery in Tallinn, where also the remains of dozen Soviet soldiers will be reburied.
Heavy violent propaganda and co-ordination from Russia
Government planned to relocate the statue last week in peaceful manner with holy memorial ceremony. But about thousand people, demanding not to touch the monument at all as it was symbol of Russian power, started to attack police and throw the stones. This confrontation coordinated by Russian embassy in Tallinn and turned on heavily by numerous Russian TV-channels frequent and unbalanced emotional reports, widespread quickly and turned into street violence, vandalism and shop raiding, never taken place in Tallinn before. Almost everybody and everything, not being Russian origin, was labeled to be 'fascist'. Also, the windows of Estonian National Opera and main square located St. John's Church were stoned.
Shouting: 'Russia! Russia!' the shop raiders were stealing the alcohol, premium brand clothes (Hugo Boss, Giorgio Armani, Gucci shops were raided). About hundred shops were raided and stoned, dozens of cars beaten. As a result, almost 1000 people were arrested in three days, amongst them number of experienced criminals with long track record.
Considering the situation, the Bronze Soldier statue was relocated on Friday morning and is standing now on Defense Forces cemetery where it's accessible to everyone.
But this has not stopped the propaganda war from Moscow.
Massive hostile media campaign from Russia against Estonia has now reached advanced stage, accusing Estonia in re-evaluation of WW II results, of course not speaking a single word about Soviet-run mass crimes, killings and deportations in Baltic States during Soviet occupation. Also, shop robbers are shown in Russian TV as 'fighters for our memory and against fascism' and Estonian government and police are accused by Russian TV as 'state repressive organs, humiliating rights of Russians'. It's No. 1 news topic in all Russian TV channels already for three days.
The fact, that statue of Bronze Soldier has been removed and erected already in new place (Defense Forces Cemetery) where everyone can visit it, has not changed the attitude.
Hysteric reactions from Russia
Russian Parliament has demanded to place the statue back to where it was before, also that Estonian Government has to step down. Needless to say, this is clear interference to Estonian internal affairs by all means.
The Russian state accusations by now (Tuesday, Wednesday) have become absolutely hysterical and expressing complete lies. The member of Russian Parliament, Gosduma, Mr. Kovaljev accused after seeing the monument yesterday on its new location, that 'statue has been sawed and holy memory disgraced'. According to workers, giving an interview in Estonian TV, nothing such has happened as statue was relocated in one unit and as soon as possible.
Also, massive scam and internet attacks against Estonian state authorities’ websites and media channels IT-systems have been started from Russia. 'It's identified now that in some cases IP-addresses are related directly to Kremlin-run organizations and structures related presidential authorities of Russia,' said Urmas Paet, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Estonia, yesterday on press conference. Also, it's proven that many people confronting police forces before events went violent, were paid by Embassy-run organizers a 80 EEK (app. EUR 5) per hour.
Estonian embassy in Moscow is on under heavy 24h protest waves, psycho terror and attacks of Kremlin-supported youth organization 'Nashi', getting minimal formal defense from Russian Militia. Estonian ambassador Mrs. Marina Kaljurand was attacked physically today (Wed, May 2) while trying to give a press conference. 'Nashi' even declared that demolition of Estonian embassy in Moscow will start on June 12!
Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Vice Chairman of Russian Parliament said yesterday: 'Russia should organize major military campaign next to border with Estonia. And some troops may be mistakenly happen to be in Estonia and demolishing many cultural and historic sites. After which we will apologize, of course.'
It's important to note that despite all of this, most of the people in Estonia are still calm and there are no cases of violence from Estonian community. The importance of situation is illustrated by fact that almost 2000 people by now in Estonia have applied to become a member of Police Support Organization to protect the country from internal conflicts, coordinated from abroad.
Soviet monuments not relocated, but demolished in Russia
As a curiosity, Russian overreaction is hypocritical because on very same time, WW II monuments for Russian soldiers are demolished (not replaced) in Russia itself. It has happened in Moscow satellite city Himki a few weeks ago, also in Stavropoulos in southern region on last autumn.
So all in all - it's symbolic war against Europe and another clear evidence of former KGB agent Putin tactics to show the world that Russia has not changed and need to show a power.
We hope that all people reading this information will make their move on their home countries by demanding Russia stopping interfering immediately to Estonian /EU internal affairs. Also passing this info to as many people and media channels as you can, because Russian (population 150m people) TV propaganda is exceeding Estonian (1,3m people) explanations.
You forgot to mention that among those 1,3 million of Estonian inhabitants almost half is Russian-speakers :))) So, nothing to do left to those who remained (no million even!)but only go to Uncle Sam, who generously give money for such provocations as removing Soviet monuments and so on.
Totally agree with Steve thoughts! Shame on the Estonian goverment! They don`t care about the people, they care only about their ideology and complexes of being occupated! Living at the present time you should take care about the present life and actual problems, about your people living in the country, russian/estonian/other nationalities. The past is just a history, a memory, you just have to know it and remember in order to avoid the same mistakes again, but you don`t need to make any changes to it! Living in such conditions and treating people like this, the goverment begets anger and hate! Not all people are smart and kind, but the goverment is the face of the country, intelligent people are supposed to rule the country! But what I can say, shame on them!
page: 1
from the spotApr 27th, 2007 - 01:27:27
When this article calls Estonian government 'nationalist', the same term should also definitely apply to the rioters but I think nationalist would be too weak. I am writing from Tallinn right now and I would call all this Russian fascism or chauvinism. The Tallinn city centre has been totally vandalized by drunk Russian youth mobs who were shouting 'It's all ours!' and 'Russia! Russia! Russia!' These Russian-speaking mobs literally devastated the city centre, looting shops, breaking windows and setting fire on kiosks. They were not sad or mourning, they were drinking and laughing. Anyone speaking Estonian was in danger in the city centre. Journalists and photographers were beaten by the Russian-speaking vandals.
Take a look at
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and
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(please remove the spaces in links to use them).
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