Bush arrives in Russian resort of Sochi for meeting with Putin

andrewApr 5th, 2008 - 17:20:18

bush want's to teach putin how to be a prick like him.

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What are the implications of a -road map-?Apr 5th, 2008 - 20:33:49

(Bush seems far more interested in 'legacy' than achievements. We've had a 'road map to nowhere' for Palestine and Israel, and the Annapolis conference which likewise accomplished nothing of substance. How can two outgoing Presidents 'sign' anything binding on their successors?)

'The two heads of state are due to have a 'farewell' meeting in which the two will sign a road map for future cooperation between their countries.'

(More specifics from elsewhere, but officially there are no details)

www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1206632388186&pagename=JPost%2FJPAr ticle%2FShowFull

Moscow expects a weekend meeting between the Russian and US presidents will produce a document setting out a 'strategic framework' for relations as both leaders prepare to leave office, a Kremlin spokesman said Tuesday.

Officials on both sides are working on the document and Russia is confident it will adopted when Vladimir Putin and George W. Bush meet Sunday in the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, Dmitry Peskov told The Associated Press. 'We proceed from the assumption that we will succeed in completing the work and that it will be adopted in some form in Sochi,' Peskov said.

He said the document would set out a 'strategic vision of the future' of ties between Russia and the United States, which have been seriously strained during the Bush and Putin presidencies despite what both say are warm personal relations. The document is meant to be a blueprint for cooperation that Bush and Putin, who both leave office within a year, can bequeath to their successors. Peskov called it a 'strategic framework' and said it would touch on all the main issues in bilateral relations and the international agenda.

(Then, cones this)

voanews.com/english/2008-04-05-voa19.cfm

White House officials say they do not expect U.S. President George W. Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin to reach an agreement this weekend on a missile defense system that the U.S. wants to place in Central Europe. VOA's Kent Klein reports from Washington.

The U.S. and Russian leaders are meeting in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, where the U.S. missile defense plans are on the agenda. A White House spokeswoman traveling with the President said the talks were on the right track, but more work will be needed after Sochi.

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lanceApr 5th, 2008 - 23:26:47

'What are the implications of a -road map-?'

You are right in your comments. However ... look at history.

Nixon started a gig with China and [his legacy] can now take credit for all US-China relationships. Other presidents and politicians have learned from that.

Now, before they exit they jet around all over the place and drop little seeds (payed by the taxpayer). Most of the seeds die off, but some germinate and they take credit for them no matter what. Even though the taxpayer paid for the seeds.

Perhaps one of these days Bush will be seen as the seeder of the world. Some people will give him credit for any place he dropped a seed, even if it did not germinate while other people (intelligent people) will see if that seed germinated and how it grew. But, by and large Bush will be known by the seeds he dropped and not by the seeds that blossomed (into beautiful flowers) because the mob sees what it wants.

Of course, the seeds he dropped and are growing in the middle east seem more like stinging nettle than anything else; worse than not germinating at all. But, most americans don't want to see their country like that.

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Nixon and Kissinger polar opposite of BushApr 5th, 2008 - 23:49:44

Nixon and Kissinger had a plan to reverse a prior relationship, and used quiet diplomacy to get there within a relatively brief timespan, as such efforts go.

Bush makes grand pronouncements, and then gets sidetracked. Bush first made some proposals about Mideast peace back in 2001. Admiral Fallon was involved in deflecting the Neocon plans for war with China into a relationship, and ran into flak because of therefore reducing the need for existing weapons programs funded by Congress. Vanity Fair has an excellent interview with Fallon, where he explains how he had to fight 'the system' in order to achieve progress in diplomacy.

You'd be hard-pressed at this point to make a list of 'successful' outcomes for Bush insofar as 'road maps' with anyone. Ukraine has backslid, and Pakistan has become a problem post-Musharraf. NOW Bush is looking for troops for Afghanistan, after walking away after Tora Bora.

If photo-ops were the measure of success, Bush would score high. He could have spoken with Putin before announcing the anti-missile policy, and avoided what he's doing now - mending fences that need not have been broken. Look at how the Russian press portrays him; and since their press reflects their government, one has to assume it's an 'official' opinion:

www.kommersant.com/p-12288/NATO_Ukraine_Geogia/

Washington Doesn’t View Defeat the NATO Rejection of Ukraine, Georgia

The White House won’t take as defeat the NATO refusal to admit Georgia and Ukraine to the MAP in Bucharest, a top-ranked official announced.
'It's not a question of defeat. I think the question will be if the alliance can come together and show that the door remains open,' a senior U.S. official said in Bucharest after the NATO leaders failed to agree on admitting Ukraine and Georgia to NATO's Membership Action Plan.

U.S. President George Bush suffered the humiliating diplomatic failure Wednesday, when, led by France and Germany, the allies opposed his effort to grant the MAP to the former Soviet republics, Ukraine and Georgia.

At least seven members of the alliance rejected the proposal of the U.S. president during yesterday’s dinner which lasted two hours longer than expected. Italy, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg backed up Germany and France in the decision not to speed up the entry of these two nations into NATO.

In contrast, here's Gingrich in 2003:

www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/04/22/gingrich.powell/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich blasted the State Department Tuesday for a series of what he described as diplomatic failures leading up to the war with Iraq, and warned that the pattern is poised to repeat itself.

In a speech delivered at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank in Washington, Gingrich contrasted the experience of the State Department with the Defense Department. He said the State Department had failed in its efforts to apply diplomatic pressure to persuade Iraq to disarm and comply with U.N. resolutions, and it is time for 'bold, dramatic change' at the department.

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