Middle East News
Insurgents would negotiate with US; "gap" with al-Qaeda (Roundup)
Apr 11, 2007, 23:23 GMT
Amman - A spokesman for an Iraqi insurgent group said Wednesday that his group was willing to negotiate with the United States if the power withdraws from the country.
Ibrahim al-Shemmari, spokesman of the predominantly Sunni Iraq Islamic Army (IIA), also said in an interview with al-Jazeera television that there was a 'widening gap' between his group and al- Qaeda forces in Iraq.
And he claimed that insurgent forces have killed 25,000 Americans - a number that is disputed by carefully kept US figures.
Al-Shemmari described his group as including 'faithful elements' from the dissolved Iraqi army but excluding 'all Baathists.'
The Sunni insurgency formed after the ouster of president Saddam Hussein in 2003, who had ruled Iraq with an iron hand that kept the minority Sunnis in control over the majority Shiites.
Since then, all-out lethal conflict has broken out between the Sunni insurgent forces and Shiite militia, with the US-led coalition forces struggling to dampen the violence while foreign Sunni al-Qaeda fighters seeking to sew chaos wherever possible.
Al-Shemmari charged that the gap with al-Qaeda came about after it had killed 40 IIA fighters, but vowed that the group was seeking reconciliation to unify all the insurgent groups and fight until the US troops leave the country.
'We are keen on the unification of all resistance groups. We have written for this end to Osama bin Laden and other scholars,' al- Shemmari said.
Al-Shemmari offered to enter into negotiations with the United States under certain 'conditions' provided that an outside body like the European Union, Russia or Turkey hosted talks.
He said the group was prepared to enter into negotiations if the US Congress made a 'binding decision' to withdraw US troops, even as it was seeking to unify the insurgent groups.
'Our second condition is that the Americans recognize the resistance as a legitimate party,' he said.
US Congress has set a timetable for withdrawal of US forces from Iraq by 2008, as part of a funding bill for the war. US President George W Bush has threatened to veto the bill. Al-Shemmari called the conflict over the financing of the US troops in Iraq a 'good omen'.
The IIA official claimed that about 25,000 Americans were killed in Iraq since the US-led force invaded the country in 2003, according to the number of American vehicles its fighters had destroyed.
'We only count the occupants of US vehicles completely destroyed in our operations,' he said.
In Washington, the private think tank, Brookings Institute, which keeps a widely respected tally of deaths in Iraq, reports only 470 deaths of foreign non-Iraqi private military contractors. In all, it estimated there were more than 20,000 private military contractors serving in Iraq, but did not specify their nationality.
Another website, Iraq Body Count, estimates Iraqi civilian deaths at 61,000 to 67,000.
Al-Shemmari faulted the official figures of the US military command in Iraq, which officially puts the number of troops killed in the past four years at about 3,243. He said the number neglected 'the mercenaries and personnel involved in the logistic services.'
Al-Shemmari said that the former Iraqi army 'included both faithful personnel and corrupt Baathists,' which was why Baathists were excluded from the IIA. He dismissed as 'propaganda' reports that Baathists, belonging to the ruling party of former President Saddam Hussein, represented the backbone of the Iraqi insurgency.
He pointed out that the IIA had 'benefited' from all previous guerrilla warfare experiments, including the Vietnam war, in its operations against the US-led multinational force in Iraq.
He blasted the government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, a Shiite, as a 'sectarian cabinet which is part of the Iranian project'.
© 2007 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
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Older Talkback
page: 1
Well, some of the insurgent elements naturally have little to do with the Pan-Islamic aspirations of Al Qaeda, et all...They have far more 'earthly, nationalistic aims, despite certain tactical interests in common with the outsiders.
Since most secular arabs 'rather like' indoor plumbing, music, art, sex, education, money (and the freedom to shave), they have little reason to long for a Wahhibist victory. They just want the westerners out.
So, yes, I imagine that they would, in the long run, be better off striking some kind of 'Afghan warlord'-type deal with the states in order to gain some sort of power advantage. (That's part of Saddam's secret to success all those years).
Like Blue Lady said, They like our stuff but they want us out- I always find it hypocritical when I hear of people bashing the west ie. US, UK but you see them wearing Western products- If they don't like what the west stands for, don't buy our stuff- I especially love it though when I hear them bashing the West and the Jews and they are wearing products made by Jewish designers- Ralph Lauren, Levi Strauss etc- It makes me laugh! If they only knew but they are that ignorant!
The only thing (sarcasm) that makes me wonder about the intentions of these 'freedom fighters' is the fact that in Iraq for the first time there is a political process that would include them whole heartedly with no need for a recourse to arms.
They have been given the vote. They don't need to fight for that right. They may organize political parties. So anyone fighting for power against the elected government is fighting against that process and the rule of law. We know what the alternative is - autocracy or theocracy - with historical precedents of sadistic brutality thrown in for good measure.
These people do not want freedom - they are fighting against it.
Its like someone shooting up the neighborhood and claiming its because someone stole their car - but then an annoyed neighbor points out that the car is sitting there in the garage in perfect shape.
Its a tragic waste.
You are absolutely right, Charles, all the more reason for the troops to be withdrawn and soon. This whole mess is hopeless at best!!!!
'.They have far more 'earthly, nationalistic aims, despite certain tactical interests in common with the outsiders.'
Yeah, returning to the good old days of baathist rule, rape rooms, plastic shredders, gassings, ect... John Wayne Gacy had earthly aims as well.. The police should have 'negotiated' with him as a way of keeping the missing children to an acceptable level.
'Good to see the Islamic Army has developed a political wing hopefully across the middle east.'
Isn't an Islamic 'political wing' a bit redundant?
Since the 'Occupation Forces' can't leave as long as there is chaos in Iraq, and since the 'insurgents' are creating the chaos with indescriminate killing in markets and schools, it is actually the insurgents forcing the occupation in Iraq to continue.
I think the fact is the 'insurgents' want to negotiate something before they are willing to allow the occupation forces to leave. I would almost be willing to bet it has something to do with Israel.
GET real
Get real,..who in their right mind in Iraq would want to talk to Israeli..It was their coercion and phony intelligence delivered by that meat head Kissinger that helped give us a bum steer in the first place.
Well Robson, if you have any better ideas on how to obtain intel from this neck of the woods- please advise the rest of us because the only TRUE ally of the US over here would be Israel- Their Intel and Mossad? make our guys look like pansies
(Shrug) Hey, I never said the nationalistic (local Iraqi) component of the insurgency were 'noble of intent'; just that their secular agendas are not to be confused with the Pan-Islamic outsiders fighting beside them...And the fact that it they may well be quite serious about getting into an alliance with America out of self interest.
Saddam Hussein did very well out of his alliance with America for many years, after all.
Hey georgeeboyrobson aren`t you the one who loves the terrorists and bad mouths the americans,i thought so.
Victory to the third world
we 'inferior races' will gain economic emancipation
I am looking beyond Iraq the sooner US loses the less likely there will be continued Western complete domination of the world. Since the Iraq war economies of the gulf and middle eat have been booming. China as well and russia. Chavez is liberating South America from economic imperialists. So I happy.
Long live the 'inferior races'
'Victory to the third world
we 'inferior races' will gain economic emancipation'
LOL! Good luck with that, now go get my dry cleaning...
Reply to the funny guy above
Q, What was americans saying about the Japs now they are making some of the best civilian tech. Look at US industry is closely aliagned with the military(not very peaceful) Recently i read a Pakistani company was exporting a large sugar processing machine to USofA lol. The low tech industries have gone from america , now the mediam tech industries are under threat. Oh wait recently Intel has opened a chip facility in China.
Question how many American or Israeli brands are there in the majority of peoples homes in the west???
The only asset left for the west that they are superior in is in warfare.
GeorgeRobson, I think you missed my point. So, why do you think the insurgents are purposely creating chaos so that the 'occupation' force is prevented from leaving?
'Q, What was americans saying about the Japs now they are making some of the best civilian tech'
As an American I can say: 'It's a good thing for the Japanese that they didn't have some insurgency where they blew themselves to pieces for years after we won the war. They were pretty smart to embrace democracy and work with us to get rich. Not like those moron sand monkeys. Heck, the islamo-nuts have natural resources, they could be rolling in our sweet, sweet trade deficit but nooooo, if brains were dynamite they couldn't blow the fuzz off a ripe peach. Then again, if brains were dynamite they would put all their heads together and try to blow up the nearest kafir.
The Japanese are pretty cool too, even though dad got paid $210 a month to splash as many as he could they still know how to party down in Tokyo. Let me tell you about this one Japanese chick I met, aaah the sweetest brown eyes..... '
Then I would stop myself and blush.
'Look at US industry is closely aliagned[sic] with the military(not very peaceful)'
Humm, Governments aligned with the military are not to your liking? LOL. The extent of US industry is obviously something you do not quite understand. Everything from Jumbo jets, satellites to oven mitts and pez. And yes, military hardware.
'Recently i read a Pakistani company was exporting a large sugar processing machine to USofA lol.'
Congratulations, you exported sugar processing machine... And the September 11th plot. We put a man on the moon. You export sugar processing machines and terrorists. Well done. Did you get my dry cleaning yet Achmed? I didn't think so.
'The low tech industries have gone from america[sic], now the mediam[sic] tech industries are under threat.'
Gee, Seeing as our GDP is bigger then the next 5 combined I am not all that nervous, Our 'medium tech' is undoubtedly your 'magic'.
'Oh wait recently Intel has opened a chip facility in China.'
Yup, so they can get around the environmental laws in the USA. Photo-lithography leaves cyanide, sulphuric acid, PCB's and Dioxin as waste. Intel was going to build that plant in Mexico, but they said no way.
'Question how many American or Israeli brands are there in the majority of peoples homes in the west???'
Well, there are plenty of American brands here. You see, the real money is in creating something like the I-pod and licensing its manufacture. Not in swimming in plastic manufacturing byproducts for pennies an hour.
'The only asset left for the west that they are superior in is in warfare. '
Not the only one by a long shot. Now really boy, get my dry cleaning before you taste my riding crop again.
You know what drove Japan to develop an empire?. Commodre Perry in the mid 1800s this guy commanded a number of United States warships which he used to force the Japanese to open up their markets. That was a short term cause in the Meji restoration. So you see force breeds resentment. Japan was a developed country when it went to war with the west unlike iraq. Japan had a punishing civil war between the clans to establish the Meji firmly. Please do not try to package history by assuming after 1945 the world was completely reborn.
What do you call Sony, Toyoto, Samsung, Haifer, lenovo. they have been developing their own technology. So when jobs go abroad please do not complain just tell americans and europeans be happy with working in low paid service jobs. Please note Apple is a high tech business so is Intel which i was not implying the US has lost their lead. However High tech jobs do not provide the masses with work, only a few.
Instead of refuting all your points i am not domagmatic as you might think I could refute them by citing some evidence because people can prove or disprove if they wanted, to back up their argument. Last point about the laudry thing you referring to Chinese. Chinese were brough over to do slave work. Now they are very successful worked from the bottom to overtake the mass vermin who are the major in North America.
So your defense is to imply i am a pakistani terrorists lol. Thats the typical response over the internet from americans, when they face an anti imperialist. P.s do not use the poken or written world because it was developed in Babylon.
'You know what drove Japan to develop an empire?. Commodre Perry in the mid 1800s this guy commanded a number of United States warships which he used to force the Japanese to open up their markets.'
LOL... Somehow it had to come back to blaming the west, eh? Well your theory is idiotic.
'Please do not try to package history by assuming after 1945 the world was completely reborn.'
Japan was reborn and Japan was what you brought up, which had basically nothing to do with the topic.
' So when jobs go abroad please do not complain just tell americans and europeans be happy with working in low paid service jobs. '
I have investments in Sony and Toyota... I have made a lot of money off them. One more detail, you half monkey, look at the Japanese debt load versus their GDP and you will see that trade surplus doesn't necessarily mean economic strength.
'Please note Apple is a high tech business so is Intel which i was not implying the US has lost their lead. '
They are simply stamping out our designs there. Take a look at our unemployment numbers and our purchasing power numbers...Good lord, they don't teach basic economics over there do they? We cannot pollute our environment the way the Chinese seem perfectly willing to do. That is why Intel is opening up a plant there, that and the pathetically low wages. Whatever little 3rd world crap hole you inhabit, Ill bet you would kill to have my lifestyle.
'Instead of refuting all your points'
Lol...Like you could you lazy coolie.
'i am not domagmatic[sic] as you might think I could refute them by citing some evidence because people can prove or disprove if they wanted, to back up their argument. '
English doesn't come easy to you, does it? That didn't make any sense.
'Last point about the laudry[sic] thing you referring to Chinese. Chinese were brough[sic] over to do slave work. Now they are very successful worked from the bottom to overtake the mass vermin who are the major in North America.'
Ill remember that when I pick up my laundry since you are too lazy to do it.
'So your defense is to imply i[sic] am a pakistani[sic] terrorists lol.'
Make up your mind on what I am implying, will you? Paki/Chinese/whatever, the main bullet point here is that you are a resentful little turd.
'when they face an anti imperialist. '
AAAh, so that is what you are, I thought you were a clown. 'Anti imperialist' Eh? That is what you fancy yourself? Well you get right on that Che, socialism has always worked soooo well wherever it has been tried that you can't help but have great success in thwarting my evil imperialist intentions. Just don't come begging for help when you can't feed yourself due to your own stupid decisions.
'P.s do not use the poken[sic] or written world because it was developed in Babylon.'
BS.
You shouldn't use them because you are an idiot.
page: 1
NoharnessApr 12th, 2007 - 00:14:51
Oh, brother! These guys are bigger liars than our Democrat legislators. Of course, this load of horse-apples was invited by the limp-wrist behavior of our Dear Speaker and our Dear Majority Leader. Way to go, Harry! Way to go, Nancy!
Huzzah!
Huzzah!
Huzzah!
Not.
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