South Asia News
South Korea, Taliban hold first direct talks on hostages (Roundup)
Aug 2, 2007, 14:39 GMT
Kabul/Seoul - The purported spokesman for Afghanistan's Taliban insurgents said Thursday that their members had the first direct talk by telephone with South Korean delegates aimed at securing the release of 21 remaining hostages held by the rebels for the past two weeks.
The spokesman said that the conversation was held between the South Korean ambassador to Kabul and a representative of the Taliban rebels after the South Korean government announced its readiness for direct negotiations.
'Today there was a contact via telephone,' Taliban spokesman Qari Mohammad Yusif Ahmadi told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa by phone from an undisclosed location. 'Actually they have not asked us for face-to-face talks yet, and if they ask us for a meeting and specify the place and time, our representatives are in Ghazni, they are ready to meet them.'
Ahmadi, however, said the group had not resumed negotiations with Afghan mediators on Thursday. 'No, we had no contact with the Afghan government mediation side, because they have said that they don't have any authority to handle this.'
He said the South Korean side had promised them to try to convince the Afghan and United States governments to accept their demands of a prisoner exchange.
Ahmadi emphasized that they would not offer any substitute demand other than eight of their jailed comrades.
'There will be no change in our demands. Now they (the South Koreans) should ask the international community for assistance. They should pressure the Americans and ask (United Nations Secretary- General) Ban Ki-Moon for help.'
At a conference in the Philippines, South Korea and the US ruled out military action to rescue the 21 South Koreans held hostage by the Taliban militants in Afghanistan.
South Korean Foreign Minister Song Min Soon and US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte agreed that they will continue to work for the safe release of the hostages, adding that the US is not preparing any military operations in the case, Song was quoted as saying by the South Korea's Yonhap news agency in Manila.
Song and Negroponte talked about the hostage crisis, which is now entering its third week, at the sidelines of the Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN) Regional Forum in Manila.
'South Korea and the United States agreed to rule out any military operations,' Song told reporters after the meeting, according to Yonhap.
'I think the cooperation between South Korea and the United States in sharing information is going very well. The countries will continue to work to solve the hostage crisis at an early date and safely,' he said.
On Wednesday, both Afghanistan and South Korea rejected speculation that a military rescue mission had been launched. The Afghan army confirmed it had begun an operation against Taliban militants in south-east Ghazni province, but insisted it was not aimed at freeing the South Korean captives.
Ahmadi told dpa, however, that should violence befall the remaining hostages, two of whose compatriots have already been shot dead, then the governments of South Korea and Afghanistan would be responsible.
No new ultimatum was issued for the militants' demands - which include the release of eight Taliban prisoners held by the Afghan government - to be met. The Taliban spokesman, however, did not rule out that a fresh deadline would yet be set.
The latest deadline had expired at noon on Wednesday (0730 GMT).
Meanwhile, the president's spokesman said Thursday that Seoul is willing to diversify its direct contact with the Taliban abductors and South Korean delegates are on their way to the US to ask Washington to play an active role in efforts to free the hostages.
The delegation, which includes leaders of the four largest political parties, want to meet, among others, Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi.
On July 19, a group of 23 South Korean Christians, including 18 women in their 20s and 30s, were kidnapped while travelling to the southern Afghan city of Kandahar from Kabul.
© 2007 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
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Older Talkback
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Agree to the Taliban demands of releasing prisoners. Make sure you know who is being released, his hometown, relatives, etc. Upon the exchange videotape it , make sure you know as much about the hostage takers as possible. Upon the safe return of the South Koreans and their passage out of Afganistan, take 100 Taliban prisoners now in Afgan jails and execute them. Do not choose small fry prisoners. Make the re-capture or elimination of the released prisoners a top priority as well as the hunting down of the hostage takers. Western standards and Western sensibilities mean nothing to these barbarians. In fact, such morality works against success with islamists. The Chinese say: One Learns to Fight One's Enemy From That Enemy. The application of Western standard of morality in Iraq is the main reason this war is going on as long as it has. Muslim fanatics look forward to killing as many innocent people as possible. To grant such people Geneva Convention-type rules and regulations is absurd. When they capture a non-Muslim, they execute him. One doesn't bargain with madmen. By being as cruel as they are, lives are saved and less innocnet people die as a result.Groups like Amnesty International may want to rush to the defense of people who lobe off heads, remove passengers from buses at roadblocks, make then kneel in front of ditches and shoot them in the head gangland style and explode bombs in weddings and malls but it is not necessary to join these fools in protecting the rights of serial murderers who display no morality and scorn every right and value we cherish in civilized societies. How many totally innocent people do you need to see murdered in cold blood to take the necessary steps to stop it? Christian martyrs may offer their necks to the Muslim sword and even rejoice in their own martydom but it is cruel and arrogant to subject others to this same fate who do not hold such beliefs. Even if they hold these beliefs it is still cruel and arrogant to allow it to happen.
I agree with Jeremy regarding the Geneva Conventions. They were rendered obsolete as of Sept. 11, 2001.
While I agree that the US should take action against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in their Pakistani safe haven, I don't think that the US should get militarily involved in the release of the 21 South Korean hostages, unless more hostages are killed of course.
We already know what the kidnappers value, namely 8 named persons they want released. I suggest that the two top value prisoners be immediately shot and the bodies thrown on the roadside. They will then recognize that further killing of innocents carries with it a price tag. Maybe the remaining 6 prisoners will ask the kidnappers to release the hostages in good health. If this doesn't work, i.e. the prisoners opt for martyrdom, I suggest it be done in a less dignified manner. Force-feeding them pork products comes to mind, prior to actual execution.
I posted this a couple days ago, I can't add any more....you guys are right on! Sorry to repeat but I simply can't fathom the crass nature of the Korean response. What are THEY going to do besides point fingers?? Do they only get mad at North Koreans?
' Unreal! The Koreans allowed these people to enter into a known war zone! Why are they looking at the US instead of the Taliban?? They should be ready to join the US and wipe out these lunatics rather than looking to the US just because they hold known homicidal jerks? Do they want the US to let them go so the Taliban will have back more of their kidnapping murderers??
They need to stand with the US to right the wrongs of these Islamunists!
The fact that the Koreans denied any evangelical motives says a lot to me as a Christian.
I hope that Korea can stand strong and fight for those captives and stop being so afraid of the Taliban!! I guess what I heard about the character of Koreans must have been wrong. Even so; God is in control and I am praying for HIM to intercede rather than the US.'
No negotiations with Terrorists under any circumstances. Once opened, this is a door you cannot close.
Do not answer phone calls from Taliban. Don't even respond to their threats. This way, they will see the uselessness of using hostages to exchange for prisoners. Make this a useless tactic. This is counting on the fact that human beings have emotions.
I agree with all that Jeremy has written and the suggestion from another that two Taliban prisoners should be executed and thier bodies dumped at the roadside. However, why stop at just two. Make it a ratio of 25 Taliban to 1 hostage. See then how long these murdering scum bags want to play.
Make sure you shoot them with bullets rolled in pig fat....
and watch how fast these guys stop all that BS!
But that will never happen because idiots are running things today everywhere!
Thats fine, but, how do you think the KOREANS should be handling this specific situation??? Not just generically about how the world should deal with these islamunists...
Just to reiterate- I said to agree to all hostage takers demands first. Military rescue missions just endanger the hostages. Make sure the hostage are safe then choose 100 - that is ONE HUNDRED taliban and execute them. And do everything possible to apprehend or kill both the released prisoners and hostage takers. The more cruelly you treat them the sooner the dying and killing will end.
By the way the South Korean government has asked the Afganistan government not to issue any visas to any S.Koreans under any circumstances.
For those who advise the -wrap them in pig skins - which is good advice I share a story about General 'Black' Jack Pershing prior to his pre-WW I heroics and the Phillipine Muslim insurgency he was called in to quell ( ( The Phillipines came under US control after the Spanish-American War of 1898) . There were a lot of ambushes, hostage taking, etc. even then. He ordered his men to capture insurgents. When he had prisoners he had his soldiers coat their ammo with pig grease and use those shells to kill all but one of the insurgents. Then the insurgents were buried together with the entails and remains of the slaughtered pigs. The last inurgent was set free and allowed to tell his fellow insurgents what happened. There were no further problems with Muslim insurgency from that time - 1911 or so - until the recent present. So, the pig idea may work. Especially with ultra primitive religious like many of the Taliban.
I wholeheartedly agree with every one of the above posts. Especailly the one about executing two of the high value Taliban and dumping them on a roadside somewhere - then if they want to get the rest of their 'friends' back let them release the Koreans.
Mitch, are you kidding me? I also believe in the power of God, but you can't just pray about it and pretend everything is made of cotton candy. Do you even know why these Koreans were there? Do you even know why Korea sent their troops in? Do you even understand why the Taliban chose to target Koreans in this situation?
Unbelievable...
Do you have an answer for my last question Tina? Lets see how much YOU understand!
To Jeremy:
Are you willing to endanger any American prisoners in other countries with inhumane treatment? The Geneva conventions obsolete? If the U.S. were to leave them, who is to stop dictatorships around the world to disregard them as well? More, the standards applied by those conventions gave us the moral right to get involved in Cambodia, Vietnam, Kosovo, Bosnia and Iraq. It wasn't that long ago that people screamed on the streets what a monster Saddam was. The fact that Saddam tortured and killed prisoners was touted as a reason that he should be brought down! Are you willing to give leave to U.S. politicians to become future Saddams? All in the name of security?
The Geneva conventions are recognized by international law and precedent as one of the building blocks of modern democracy. Any country not implenting those conventions is currently being classified both within and outside U.S. institutions as a dictatorship. How do you think we would classify ourselves if we sanctioned the indiscriminate use of force and torture? What would be the difference between us and the lets say the Iranians? Maybe you are willing to live in such an America as you are describing, but the vast majority of Americans would prefer to stick with democracy. Democracy is never obsolete. That is why we fight terror - to secure the future of our children and make sure they live in a free world. You don't fight terrorism by becoming a sponsor of terror.
Okay, Mitch, buddy. I think you're a little confused... well, your post confused me a little, at least.
First off, the South Koreans are not pointing fingers at anybody. They are looking for help in a desperate situation. They have 21 of their countrymen who are abducted by a group of radical extremists. They do not have the political clout that the United States has in Afghanistan, and are therfore imploring our help with the situation.
Second, the country no more 'allowed' those people to enter into Afghanistan as we 'allow' our countrymen to enter into Egypt or Iran. If they have their passports and proper visas they can go where ever they please, especially on an aid mission.
And what are 'Islamunists?' I don't understand that. I think you have created a portmanteau with Islam and Communist, but, clearly, the people of Afghanistan, including the Taliban, are not communist, so this particular moniker is meaningless to you, me and everyone who sees it.
By the way, who's god do you want to intercede? Allah or Jesus? Because both have resolved so many hostage situations in the past. I'd say with their track records, neither diety is a good crisis negotiator. Christ would be better off resurrecting Carter for this job.
You are right, they are far worse than the communists ever were, it was all I could come up with and not use potty language. The Bible states the early islamunists and Jews share the same God, yet the offspring of ishmael are destined to be at odds with everyone, living like wild donkeys( see the book of Genesis...Thats the God I was talking about, he is Jesus's Dad.
Now I am confused, what do you think the Koreans should do? Now and after this is over, just to pile on a bit.
To Leo:
I did not say to abandon the Geneva Convention rules and regs. I am all for honoring them with other nation states. I am not for honoring them with terrorist combatants - especially those who choose to torture and execute any and all prisoners they capture and who indiscrimately bomb civilians and kill men, women and children. These are not 'soldiers' as we know them. They are sadistic murderers. It is decent people like yourself- at least I believe you to be one - who simply cannot comprehend who the enemy is we are up against in the Muslim world.
The Geneva Accord were applicable to the German Army in WW II despite examples of summary executions of US troops in the field from time to time and even to the Japanese who were especially brutal in their treatment of British and American POWs. But even the Japanese did not torture and kill all their prisoners as the jihadists do. What liberals do not understand is one doesn't grant rights to an enemy who not only does not reciprocate those rights but who scorns them.
Islamists have an agenda that has nothing to do with the First Amendment, Geneva Accords, respect for humanity, etc. The more extreme advocate genocide openly - such as the Iranian mullah regime seeking nuclear weapons or practice genocide as the Sudanese regime has for the past 30 years- first on Black Southern non-Muslims and now Darfurian Black Muslims. Everything a liberal person such as yourself holds dear means nothing to Islamists. The world for them is divided into Muslims and Infidels. The latter have no rights and no standing.
In the past, there was the opportunity of dialogue with our enemies. Such a possibility does not exist with our present enemy. They must be subdued and the worse among them must be killed. Although you are probably a decent person there is an indecency about you which you fail to understand. Your demand to fight by our rules and not their rules cost lives- innocent lives of people trying to carry on their daily lives.
Most people think the first part of our invasion of Iraq was succcessful and only later did it turn sour. That is not exactly true. If Bush had any understanding of who he was dealing with in Iraq he would have carried out assassinations of important Baathist leadership by our sleeper cells ( Bush 'only' had 10 years to think about this) before one US soldier set foot in Iraq. The prior elimination of the organizers of the insurgency would have meant a less violent future. He would have made sure that the very rich Baathists who escaped into Syria and who fund a great deal of the insurgency from there, were killed. They live quite openly and it would be very easy to assassinate them. Doing so would save lives in Iraq - both American and Iraqi. And during the period of looting- which I consider the turning point - he would have shot looters. Cruel, you say? By not doing so the Iraqi opposition realized our weaknesses and the insurgency followed. A firm hand then would have saved lives later.
And one story from yesterday's news. Sudanese refugees who had escaped Sudan and were trying to enter Israel from the Egyptian border were shot by Egyptian border guards as they approached the border area. Several refugees still managed to reach the border fence separating Israel and Egypt. The IDF- Israel troops, actually got in a tug of sorts holding onto the Sudanese refugges and trying to pull them into Israel while the Egyptians were pulling them back into Egypt. The Egyptians raised their weapons towards the IDF and the Israelis backed off. The poor Sudanese were then beaten to death in front of the horrified Israeli soldiers. Kicked and stomped by the Egyptians until dead. Israeli soldiers said the Egyptian troops were laughing as they brutally killed the refugees. These were not terrorist insurgents but regular Egyptian soldiers in uniform. That should give you an image of what we are up against when facing the Muslims.
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religion of peaceAug 2nd, 2007 - 16:05:03
One possible solution is to ensure that there are no more Taliban prisoners, ever.
How long does it take to understand that when dealing with people who have no respect for any life, let alone anyone or anything non-muslim, only by being more ruthless than they, will we erradicate this vile ideology.
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