US Features
US Muslim lawmaker under fire as un-American
By Tony Czuczka Dec 23, 2006, 12:46 GMT
Washington - US lawmaker Virgil Goode says he'll have the Bible in hand when he takes the oath of office in January. But he cringes at his new Muslim colleague's plan to swear on the Koran.
Goode, a conservative Republican, has caused shock in Washington with his open hostility to Keith Ellison, an African-American who last month became the first Muslim elected to the US Congress.
In a letter to voters in his district that found its way into US media, Goode portrayed Ellison as a threat to American values and rejected the use of the Koran at swearing-in ceremonies.
Ellison, a convert from Roman Catholicism who traces his family's American roots back to the 18th century, took it calmly. He insisted that the several million Muslim Americans are as patriotic as any other group and oppose terrorism.
The row goes beyond political sniping - Ellison is from the centre-left Democratic Party - and raises questions about the limits of tolerance in US society after the September 11 terrorist attacks.
'It's a good thing that we have people from all faiths and cultures that all come here,' Ellison said on Cable News Network (CNN) Thursday. 'We should embrace it, not be afraid of it.'
In his letter, Goode called for a crackdown on immigrants to keep 'many more Muslims' from being elected to public office and to preserve traditional US 'values and beliefs.'
The Council on American-Islamic Relations, an advocacy group for US Muslims, urged Goode to apologize for his 'Islamophobic remarks' about the man he calls 'the Muslim representative from Minnesota.'
Condemnations also came from the Democrats, who will hold the majority in both houses of Congress for the first time in 12 years when the new legislature convenes on January 4.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Democratic representative who is Jewish in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, accused Goode of 'bigotry.'
But Goode, a 10-year member of the lower House of Representatives from the southern state of Virginia, has refused to back down. Feedback from people in his district has been more positive than negative, he said.
Ellison, 43, has been on the defensive before. Before winning a vacant House seat in the Midwestern city of Minneapolis, he faced scrutiny for his links as a student with Nation of Islam, a US black group that critics accuse of anti-Semitism.
In the Koran row, the trial lawyer has a strong ally: the US constitution. The 1789 document says that 'no religious test shall ever be required' as a qualification for public office.
Ellison plans to join 434 other members of Congress in the official oath of office at the Capitol building, which involves a group pledge to uphold the US constitution.
'And then later, in a private ceremony, ... I'll put my hand on a book that is the basis of my faith, which is Islam,' he told CNN.
As for Goode, Ellison says he will approach him in a conciliatory spirit.
'I'd rather just say that he has a lot to learn about Islam. I don't want to start any name-calling,' he said.
© 2006 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
blog comments powered by DisqusLatest Headlines in US
- 1. Mitt Romney Addresses Tea Party Summit Pictures
- 2. Seven injured as US Navy plane crashes into apartments
- 3. At least three injured in US Navy plane crash
- 4. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, others to face death penalty trial
- 5. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, four others to face death penalty trial
Older Talkback
I side with Goode on this one. Ellison is the one who has the religious agenda. He should stay with tradition as it has been for 250 years. It is a symbolism but Ellison wants to make it personal. His religious agenda has no place here regarding his elected duties. He is an elected servant of the people of all faiths and should not be using this as a platform to further any cause that he may have. He also has a very 'checkered past' and questionable ties to some radical organizations which understandably makes him suspect. Maybe Goode should point it out in a less antagonizing manor but none the less, it is Ellison who insists on making it break from tradition and there is no place for that here.
Islam is the single most intolerant faith in the world, so it is indeed ironic that they would seek a place at the table on a platform of tolerance. I may not agree with all that Goode says, but he is dead on about the Muslims. Their values, and the traditional values of Western Socity do NOT mix. This is an historical fact. Lets not miss the forest for the trees.
If he doesn't believe in the bible, of what value would his swearing in be? For Keith Ellison it might be akin to putting his hand on a stack of paper. This is a story about religious intolerance more than anything else. Our founding fathers would have sided with Keith Ellison on this issue.
They are all prohibited from swearing in on ANY religious text. That’s why these “holy book” swear-ins happen in private ceremonies. If you feel they should be using one religious book over another, or the religious book of their choice, you’re taking the un-American view. Americanism calls for no religious tests for holding office. I think you’d be happier in a country like Iran or Afghanistan.
'Their values, and the traditional values of Western Socity do NOT mix. This is an historical fact.'
No it isn't. Precisely the opposite would be more accurate. Contemporary Muslim values mix very well with traditional Western values. Intolerance of other faiths, homosexuality, subjugation of woment etc. were all prevalent in pre-Enlightenment Europe. The point is more that many of the values of Islam do not mix well with current western values, as we have become more secular.
'Islam is the single most intolerant faith in the world, so it is indeed ironic that they would seek a place at the table on a platform of tolerance.'
Ever hear of the Inquisition? I'm amazed at how soon those of Judeo-Christian descent forget their own faith's violent and intolerant history. Just because there are militant Islamists out there does not mean that the entirety of that religious community should be condemned as intolerant. Hell, just read the Old Testament, seems pretty intolerant to me.
It's ALL a bunch of superstitious nonsense and just keeps fueling wars.
SM wrote: 'I side with Goode on this one. Ellison is the one who has the religious agenda. He should stay with tradition as it has been for 250 years. It is a symbolism but Ellison wants to make it personal...'
Oh, really? And how would you feel if you had been elected to office and were asked to swear on a Koran?
No one said Keith Ellison doesn't believe in the bible, it's just not his primary source of spiritual guidance. But what he does, or anyone else does in a private ceremony, is private. There is no official way to swear in on anything. And thank goodness for that. I hate to see politics corrupt faith any further.
They should be swearing on the constitution, period. We are supposedly a secular country. And, all religions are intolerant. In the past 10 years, the christian right has ruined this country. Thanks to them and their election of Bush - for religious reasons only - got us in the Iraq mess, and thanks to them 3,000 american soldiers and 500,000 iraqis lie dead. All because that idiot Bush is pro-life and anti-gay marriage. Virgil Goode, is moron as is anyone who supports his ideas.
It would appear that contemporary American christianity in the most intolerant sect in the world. Goode is just another ignorant bigot, there is no book required for the swearing in--the swearing in involves stating that the Constitution will be honored--not ANY religious preference. More and more we seem to be devolving into a society of fear, ignorance and hatred.
I suggest studying the crusades for an interesting comparison of Christian and Muslim values.
Perhaps those who feel that Ellison should swear on the Bible should consider whether they would be prepared to swear on the Koran if that happened to be the 'tradition'. To swear on another religion's Holy Book would be likely to cause great discomfort to any deeply religious person; so much so that if it was a requirement it would likely dissuade persons of that religion from even taking office, which is plainly discriminatory.
Swearing on the Bible is tradition because congressmen have traditionally been Christian. To suggest that everybody should swear on the Bible is pretty much to say that congressmen should only be Christians. The tradition of Christian-only congressmen has been broken, and the tradition of only swearing on the Bible should now be broken as well.
It seems plain to me that the actual issue here is that Goode is unhappy about there being a Muslim in congress at all. The issue of which book to swear on is a diversion.
There is no evidence that George Washington used a Bible for swearing in and the fundies' claim that he did so is specious.
Using any allegedly 'holy' book in such ceremonies is superstitious nonsense. The only document used, if any, should be the Constitution of the United States.
I have a muslim friend whose family and he are regular folks who practice their faith and don't care what you do. And there are plenty of Christians who would relish burning heretics and homos at the stake again. How about people just swear on the constitution?
I can't believe that people are saying that they should stick with the tradition of using the bible, while completely ingoring the fact that the first settlements in this country and the foundation it was built upon was Freedom. This included mainly freedom of speech, expression, and, MOSTLY, religion. Yes, there are dangerous Muslims in the world, as there once were crusading Christians who forced non-believers to convert or face death. However, it was the majority of morally upright Christians that helped further civility and society. There are many more righteous and upstanding Muslims in the world than the ones we see each night one television committing terrible inhumane crimes. The type of intolerance represented here just reminds me of what Hitler thought of the Jews in his nation.
If his is co-erced, forced, or required to use the bible to be sworn in, then clearly the US is much futher away from the separation of church and state that our forefathers had implemented in our government. Instead, we will be enforcing not a tradition, but an ideology. The tradition of freedom of religion far outweighs the importance of using a Christian bible. If we enforce one religious ideology, we become Germany, 1938.
I wouldn't trust a Muslim who swore oath on a Christian bible, because his beliefs would also allow him to rescind on his oath. Instead, let him take his oath with the Koran. At least then he'll be required to keep his promise by his own faith, and not that of another persons.
I believe the reason our founding fathers included the clauses that protected ALL religions is because they believed in tolerance towards all religions. During the first 250 years of our nation other religions were until recently a very rare minority, which made it almost impossible for people of other faiths to make it into the two houses. Just because we've been swearing on the bible for the last 250 years does not make it tradition.
I would trust a man who swears on the book of his faith than a man who swears superficially on the book of a faith he doesn't subscribe to.
And even if Islam is the single most intolerant religion in history, Senator Ellison's ascension into American politics is a sign of change. Senator Goode is opressing Ellison and everyone who belongs to the Islamic religion by imposing his own religious beliefs, which in turn encourages more violence and bigotry.
Evil begets evil and as far as I'm concerned, Goode threw the first stone in this case.
As a Christian first, an American second, and a Republican somewhat lower down the line, I am distressed by this attitude. This goes against God’s Word and the Constitution of the United States. If Mr. Goode professes to be a Christian, I hope he will re-examine his thoughts and be a better example of a servant of God. If he is not a Christian, I hope he will uphold the constitution and be an example to the Shiites and Sunnis on how to co-exist with people of different beliefs. And finally, as a Republican, I hope he remembers that at one time, Abraham Lincoln, one of the greatest Republicans ever, was viewed as a threat to American values by about ½ of the country.
Yep, we're almost at a religious war right now, and it's against the Christians.
America is NOT a Christian country, and anyone who says it is is a traitor to American ideals...those ideals separate church and state.
The founding fathers were all Christians. Many of the early settlers were refugees from religious intolerance in Europe, and these same Christian founding fathers had the wisdom to see the problems associated with a 'state' religion.
Jesus Christ himself saw the problem and discussed it when he indicated to 'render unto Ceasar etc.'
As the first poster said, each individual swearing into office in this country should swear by what that person holds important (in my mind they should ONLY swear by the constitiution, but I try to be tolerant).
The fact that 'traditionally' a Bible is used, and a Koran has never been used is perhaps more due to the fact that we haven't had a Muslim elected until now.
Muslims are no more dangerous than any other religious followers...the problem is with Muslim EXTREMISTS...and with Christian EXTREMISTS...both varieties are nuts...God help spare us from both!
oooo...that guy from virginia (goode)...has gotta go. scarey that in today's day and age we can have elected officials that are as ignorant as they are...and i am not sitting here typing with rose colored glasses, there are major security issues to be addressed based on current climate, those scrutinites should also be extended to the conservative right, hmmm, the nra...now there is a group of upholding citizens...on that note...MERRY CHRISTMAS
I am dumbfounded that any American could support the religious intolerance displayed by Virgil Goode's criticism of the new Muslim lawmaker's wish to be sworn into Congress on his 'Bible' -- the Koran. Doesn't anyone remember American history, which speaks to the pilgrims who fled their European countries to escape from the religious persecution from which they sufferred? Does 9/11 make it okay to hate all Muslims now? Shame, for shame!
If you were to do a similar act of swearing in at any of the Islamic world's constitutions or political bodies , it is unthinkable for a Christain to take an oath with his Bible, in hand . The Islamic World will nto tolerate it, for a christian to be a law maker int heir coutnries, unless of course , by submission . why should America tolerate a Muslim to be on American Political Instituin .I'm not being racist here , but in the Islamic World (i.e 40 coutnries on Planet Earth ) , they will not care to listen to a Christian , unless he takes the effort to be tolerant to them ,Muslims .Go see the open discrimation and racial comments on other races throughout the Arab World , and you will wonder if Mohammed was ever God's Prophet, or an Arab LawMaker. Why should Ellison ( a converted )be given the chance to stand by his Koran .Ellison, don't you know it was them Arabs , who sold your forefathers in Africa to the white man . It was the Christian's land that taught you freedom and self respect .Go and see in allthe Gulf countries , who cleans the beautiful streets , or washes the Muslims's Car .Ellison , in mordern times , you call him/her a servant , but for the Arab Muslim , it's his 'slave'.Tell me , what are you doing in the land of Chrsitans that you freedom and self respect , why do'nt you go and point your fingers at the law , that you worship . you cannot Ellison . Can you .Good luck if you can
Elected representative Keith Ellison (D-Minn) spoke at the North American Imams Federation Conference last month where according to the World Net Daily, “his talk flowed into a breakout session listed on the agenda simply as 'American Open University.' The American Open University was founded by Jaafar Sheikh Idris, who in an article writes, “Separation of religion and state is not an option for Muslims because is[sic] requires us to abandon God's decree for that of a man.
(http://www.jaafaridris.com/English/Articles/separ.htm)”
As Americans it is time we start speaking up, asking questions, and demanding answers. How can Keith Ellison, an elected representative of the American people work with an organization founded by a man that denounces the separation of church and state?
In 1960 the Democratic Nominee for President, John F. Kennedy responded to questions of his ability and intent to serve this country as an American first and a Catholic second by stating: “I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute…I believe in a President whose views on religion are his own private affair, neither imposed upon him by the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office. Whatever issue may come before me as President, if I should be elected….I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be in the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressure or dictate. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.”
Will Mr. Ellison say he is an American first, a Muslim second? If he is unable to do this, he should not be entrusted to have a leadership position in our government. It is our responsibility to insist that Mr. Ellison address this concern and tell the American people if he intends to uphold our values or his religious ones.
After reading the comments here, some from Cons and Libs alike, it seems like Goode is the one who will eventually feel the political heat. He just opened a can of worms that could essentially bring down much of the GOP in 2008.
Remember: If you are a decendent of Italian, Irish, Scottish,...heck, almost any foreign country, your ancestors were more than likely oppressed and treated with racism when they first arrived in this country.
They would be ashamed of how far we've come, and yet how intolerant many of us still are.
The Constitution is a perfect framework of government, be we have never managed it to perfection. Sadly even those who claim to defend it miss its deepest values.
I don't know this, but do we have any Mormons serving in or being sworn into Congress? What would be Mr. Goode's response to one of them swearing in on a Book of Mormon is they so chose? Has he any choice words for the two Buddhists being sworn in this year? If a Jewish congressperson decided to be sworn in by a rabbi instead of a Christian minister or priest, or a judge, would he get bent out of shape? Some folks don't like to think about it, but we Christians have had our share of violent outbreaks in recent history too. Northern Ireland is a good example. Muslims have become the 'flavor of the month' because of what has been happening the last 7 years but let's not forget that lynching of blacks in this country was considered a proper Christian duty not too long ago.
The Constitution is clear on this: no swearing on any religious text will be required of anyone. A congressperson can swear on a carrot stick if he/she chooses. You're searing to uphold and defend the Constitution. You're not swearing to God or Allah or YHWH or your ancestors or anyone else.
Besides, with all the complaining that Muslims do not assimilate, you would think we would want them to be actively engaged in things like government service so that they were strong and active advocates and participants in American life, not pushed to the fringes fomenting justifications to strike out at the so-called land of freedom because they're not considered 'American enough'.
Religion has killed more people and caused more suffering than any other cause known to mankind. History is fraught with man's inhumanity to man based on religious faith. What makes all this really sad it that it is all myth and superstition. I am saddedned that people elected (read 'hired') to govern me are so truly unenlightened that they feel they have to swear to uphold anything but the one document that sets the US apart from most other nations - the Constitution.
What exactly are these 'traditional values and beliefs' that conservatives are always going on and on about? Do they have a list of them somewhere? Because I'm curious if they would include 'tolerance,' 'religious freedom,' or even--these days--'democracy.'
Another thing: Didn't Rep. Goode vote for Americans to go to war in Iraq? And isn't the stated Republican objective of that war to bring democracy to that mostly Muslim country? If that is so, why would he be so vociferous in his opposition to Muslim-Americans joining in the democratic process in his own country?
Or is he just another transparently hipocritical Republican?
Is the globalization-diversity lobby so powerful we don't see the hidden agenda in Muslims? Finally out of the Beltway Shadows of Political Correctness steps a man. Our president, still singing the praises of the religion of peace continues his cheerleading while our country gets invaded, yes invaded by the carries of this dreadful epidemic called Islam. There are 48 hot spots in the world today and this religion of peace is involved in 46, count them 46! They invade the host country under the freedom of religion acts, pretend peaceful coexistence, demand sharia law, and then takeover. This is their standard modus operandi. Asks Indonesians, Thais, Sri Lankans, Filipinos, and in the next 10 years Swedish. Wake up America these people are not here to live the American Dream, but to destroy it. Diversity is wonderful if the purpose is to become American and live the dream, but when you arrive here you bring your religion, customs, and get greeted by TV, Radio, and Newspapers in your own language, there is no longer the need to become American. Rome was destroyed by this diversity and by a religion not disimilar to Islam CONVERT OR DIE!
Once again another conservative politician created a way to divide the country over a non issue. The founding fathers created the law and a the tradition of seperation of church and state. We should stick with that tradition. Attacking Islam, especially a US citizen is akin to what the Taliban wants to do. Lets rise above this silo thinking and become one people as our founding fathers designed our country to be. Who is next on his list?
Goode's comments should be taken as what they are: Anti-Semitism. It's no different from saying we should try to prevent the Jews from overturning our traditional Christian values and getting elected. You know those Jews: controlling the media, acting in Hollywood, killing Christ, wearing those funny hats and what's with those beards?
I applaud Wasserman-Schultz for calling a bigot a bigot.
im with the peacefull people aka the ones who arent complaining why blame all the muslims maybe the terrorists are just mentally ill
It will be interesting to observe Keith Ellison and his faith in action. I have been 'told' the only true interpretation is the written Arabic version and any other version in any other language is blasphemous and impious. Therefore I hope the Koran that Keith Ellison uses in his private ceremony is really the Koran and not some Americanize English version otherwise his display of faith is just another ploy and sham. Watch his actions, the parties that he attends, the food that he eats, and what he imbibes.
According to the Bible, Matthew 5:34, Jesus strictly commands not to swear on anything. Maybe some people actually need to read it.
Jay, your arguement is weak for this one reason: How many countries have been converted in the world to the Christian agenda? EVERY religion at its extreme wishes to create a religious utopia. Were the natives of South America Christians before the Europeans arrived? Catholisism dominates every corner of that country. What about the Christians in South Africa? Have you ever noticed at how much the moron belief dominates the laws of the state of Utah?
Every religion has an agenda to convert. To point your finger just at Muslims or believe otherwise is severely ignorant, and quite foolish.
some people say that muslims and western society dont mix very well but they do, in the late 1800s some muslims migrated to britain and thats how it has bathhouses and soap an iraqi scientist invented soap
fra59e,
This is taken from the Library of Congress:
April 30, 1789 -- George Washington
1.Oath of office taken out-of-doors.
2.Pronounced the words, 'So help me God' after taking the oath; other presidents have followed this example.
3.Set the precedent of kissing the Bible after the oath.
4.Fireworks concluded the day's celebration, all of which was paid for by private citizens.
5.Because of pressing public business, the inaugural ball was held on May 7. The president's wife, Martha, did not make the trip to New York.
Looks like the 'fundies' were right.
More interesting information on presidential inaugurations can be found here:
Inaugurals of Presidents of the United States: Some Precedents and Notable Events
If Islam is an intolerant religion, what did the Americans have on their minds when they entered Iraq and destroyed the country, pillaged its wealth and looted even the museums. Are they very holy and tolerant or are they belonging to the religion of devil. Is their bible the book of loot, murder and carnage on which they swear and wish to prevent another in his tracks of humility to God from existing.
When you represent a religion that says to its followers you must kill, tax, enslave, or convert non believers and that any other treatment of others is not permitted then you deserve to be kept out of the legislative process.
Americans must wake up NOW to the threat of Islam before it is too late for our children and grandchildren. Look at ANY country that has a MUSLIM majority and you will see how other faiths are treated in those societies. THe ONLY reason MUSLIMS in America are a 'religion of peace' is because that are a minority. Any statements from anyone disputing this is not based in fact but delusion. For further proof immigrate to a Muslim majority country as a Christian, Jew or Hindu and see how well you are treated.
Congressman Goode did not say if he wanted to use the Koran he couldn't. What he said was Virgil Goode would be using the bible. He also did not say Muslims should not be able to hold office. He said if Immigration laws were not tightened that we would see more Muslims being elected to office. Immagration was a valuable tool in the formative years of the United States. Years when there were many resources and land that could and should be populated. That is no longer the case. This country is full its infustructure is strained. Just as we no longer need families with 12 children who can work the fields we no longer require a large influx on immigrants. That is what Congressman Goode is saying. The jest of his letter is stop illegal immigrants and control legal immagration. Simple as that.
I would want a Moslem to swear on the Koran. I am a Catholic. If I were in a situation where I was forced to swear on the Koran, and then I told a lie, I would not consider that I had comitted purgery (a mortal sin), but just lied (a venial sin).
Whatever the traditions of the United States are it is DE JURE (by law) a non-denominational country.
Would he also object if a Hindu swore on the Vedic, A Latter Day Saint on the book of Moroni, A Jew on the Old Testament or, (shudder) I on the Douai Bible?
Guys,
If we are truly promoting tolerence, freedom and what we believe differs us from other nations, so what the hell are we doing here. I fully agree with the 'Swearing on your mama's grave' comment. The guy should simply use his own HOLY book. By the way, I heard that MOhamed the Prophet of Islam messages were one of the sources of wisdom for the Constitution!
This should be a message to the world how our core values in the US are more than values - They are principles which we do not change because of a few crasy Muslims. Remember We are stereotyping too much which means we are definitly moving backwards. AB
It's good to see a Congressman have the courage to defend our Christian values. Would a Christian be allowed to be in office in a Muslim country and swear on a Bible?
We have seen/are seeing how tolerant Muslims are if someone disagrees with them! We Americans must be politcally correct, as we are slowly getting devoured.
Right on. About time for someone to stand up to Islam and what the Muslims are all about. which is nothing peaceful. Only hatred, chaos, senseless killing and war.
They even kill other muslims.
America needs to wake up and stop this political correctness BS.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like aduck, its probably a duck! quran is hate propaganda. if you dont convert, you get killed. if you do convert, another muslim faction will kill you. Letting muslims into out congress and senate is going to be the start of the end of a free america.
Fact: Islam means submission
Fact: There is NO RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE in Islamic countries (try practicing Christianity in Saudi Arabia)
Fact: Many Islamic leaders/muftis/clerics have declared Jihad (religious war) on the west.
Fact: Islam is a religion of violence, read any newspaper on any given day.
Fact: Muslim scholars have explicitly determined that the concept of an offensive war to spread the faith is the essence of Islam. Islam is at war with the west in: Somalia, Sudan (Darfur), Isreal, Iraq, Thailand, Indonesia (Bali bombings), Spain, Great Britain, United States, etc., etc., etc.
Go on and feel good about yourselves for being so open mined about Congressman Ellison's faith. Just try not to lose sight of what his faith is about.
Western countries have always been a melting pot for other cultures. What to do when one culture refuses to melt?
Goode speaks to a frustration that most Americans feel. Immigration is out of control because of Political Correctness.
Doesn't anyone know the Koran teaches Muslims to LIE to Infidels/non-believers, i.e. Christians? Ellison is wrong to insist on swearing to uphold the U.S. Constitution on a non-Christian book so he can represent his district in a Christian country. What worth is an oath taken on a book which teaches its adherents Allah permits LYING? Other non-Christians have been sworn into office via The Bible, so what's Ellison's problem? For those who don't know anything about the Koran, there's a free copy online to read or to download either by single chapters or as the complete work. It's horrifying to see people talking about something they know nothing about! Use the URL below to learn the Koran before you comment without knowing what you're talking about!
http://profetofdoom.net/pdf.aspx?g=401&i=41002
A Keralite, who was reportedly facing death sentence in Saudi Arabia, has been set free due to timely intervention of Indian authorities.
Jojo Joseph of Edathua in the district was on Monday ordered to be beheaded for entering the holy place of Medina despite a bar on non-Muslims.
According to Jojo’s family members in Edathua, the Saudi authorities later took a lenient view of the case after they were convinced that he did not deliberately commit the mistake.
Jojo, employed in an electronic shop in Jeddah, ran into trouble while rushing in a cab to a hospital where his wife had given birth to a child. The taxi driver took a wrong route and strayed into the prohibited area, his family members said.
The Indian was then spotted by religious volunteers, who handed him to police
I can't say it much better than this:
'Jim Dec 23rd, 2006 - 13:51:42
They should be swearing on the constitution, period. We are supposedly a secular country. And, all religions are intolerant. In the past 10 years, the christian right has ruined this country. Thanks to them and their election of Bush - for religious reasons only - got us in the Iraq mess, and thanks to them 3,000 american soldiers and 500,000 iraqis lie dead. All because that idiot Bush is pro-life and anti-gay marriage. Virgil Goode, is [a] moron as is anyone who supports his ideas.'
Let's wake up and realize that the separation of church and state is at the crux
of tolarance.
OUCH!!!! ERRATA of my above URL:
http://prophetofdoom.nt/pdf.aspx?g=401&i=41002
If you are one to call on history then you would know that Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew. And if you were to truly follow the teachings of Jesus then you would know the true route to God. The so called American religious right are not following the teaching of Christ. They follow a distorted vision of the way to God. Jesus was always amoung the oppressed and would have been glad to hold the Koran as a Muslim swears his oath to God. The point is God is the father of Christians and Muslims. The resurrection of Jesus was to be our salvation from those who worshipped icons. The American religious right worship the icon of the cross and not spirit of the Holy Father.
All the Goode backers should read the document that is most relevant to this debate: The US Constitution. Article VI Clause 3:
'The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.'
If all elected officals have to swear on the Bible because it is the 'tradition', it would contradict the religious test clause, making the act Unconstitutional. Goode backers would you agree or disagree? Why or why not?
Don't ya just love it when the Bush haters draw comparisons between the brutality of Islam and Christianity!
Mmmmm, let see, name one human, cat, dog, elephant, insect that has been kidnapped, tortured, forced to convert or beheaded in the name of Christianity in the last 100 years or so.
Didn't think you could.
Now lets name Christians, Jews, Hindus that have been kidnapped, tortured, forced to convert or beheaded in the name of Islam. Daniel Pearl, ABC reporters, Nick Berg, etc., etc., etc.
That's easier isn't it.
Al Qaeda has sent a message to leaders of the Democratic party that credit for the defeat of congressional Republicans belongs to the terrorists.
In a portion of the tape from al Qaeda No. 2 man, Ayman al Zawahri, made available only today, Zawahri says he has two messages for American Democrats.
“The first is that you aren’t the ones who won the midterm elections, nor are the Republicans the ones who lost. Rather, the Mujahideen — the Muslim Ummah’s vanguard in Afghanistan and Iraq — are the ones who won, and the American forces and their Crusader allies are the ones who lost,” Zawahri said, according to a full transcript obtained by ABC News.
Zawahri calls on the Democrats to negotiate with him and Osama bin Laden, not others in the Islamic world who Zawahri says cannot help.
“And if you don’t refrain from the foolish American policy of backing Israel, occupying the lands of Islam and stealing the treasures of the Muslims, then await the same fate,” he said.
linky
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/al_qaeda_sends_.html
I am curious ! For members of Congress other than Christian or Muslim, what is used at those private swearing in ??? Why has no one ever referred to those instances as unamerican ?? Deep mistrust and even hatred of Muslims is the only reason this subject has been brought up. Its saddens me that the once champions of tolerance are now the bigots.
Intolerance is widespread, I personally don't put any weight on what book they decide to use. Christians and Muslims alike have killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined. Hopefully these folks can get beyond this and give us some productive input for stopping the killing everywhere in the name of good manners and not in the name of any God. Bush has taken this country down a sad path in the name of God (Christian), maybe a Muslim will have a new perspective based on intelligence and not monomania.
Congressman Goode's comments are a little extreme, but at least he's willing to bring to light the increasing tolerance of 'intolerant' people in this country. We all know Ellison has a checkered past, one that wouldn't be tolerated if he leaned right instead of left. While Goode's comments may seem intolerant, Mr. Ellison's actions over his career are aguably extreme intolerance. It's sad to see our society become so secularized that we can not even recognize the cancer that is growing in our country - we are getting so far away from our judeo-christian values it's more acceptable to bash christianity then it is to step on a muslim's toes - e.g. movies like Dogma and Black Christmas. You can try to make the agrument islam is a peaceful religion, but the proof is in the teachings. Fundamentally Isalm is not about love or tolerance, it's about rules, intolerance, subjugation of women and even violence. Yes, Christianity has been abused in the past, but this was completely against Jesus' teachings. If we're going to bash Goode, why don't we at least apply the same standard to everyone.
I always get these two guys confused...and for good reason:
KKK scum Virgil Griffin:
'They breed like rats, worse than niggers, and send their money back to Mexico,' Griffin roared. 'Only thing I got for them is a bullet right between the eyes. Ship their dead butts back to Mexico.'
Congressional scum Virgil Goode:
'I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States if we do not adopt the strict immigration policies that I believe are necessary to preserve the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America and to prevent our resources from being swamped.'
They're both ignorant rednecks, one's just a little redneckier than the other.
All this tolerance is well and good, but knowing that being Muslim is not exactly a vote-winner, it seems Rep. Ellison carefully masked that truth from his constituents. No doubt he would have ahrder time getting elected had his name been Kieth Muhammed Ellison for instance! It seems disingenuous to use a 'christian' name and proclaim you are a muslim after getting elected. Maybe he did not hide it but the media did - whoever it is, the truth is that Rrep. Ellison was and is well aware that being a muslim (converted one at that) is not a popular thing and it seems the birds have come home to roost.
Never mind, for the moment, the use of the Bible or the Kor'an for swearing in formalities. Rather, keep a very critical eye on Ellison and his associates, contacts, and relationships. This character holds a very checkered past associating with violent, criminal organizations. It will be illuminating to observe the development of his agenda. His true colors will become evident soon enough.
Your intolerance will not be tolerated and met with extreme prejudice.
What any person of faith does in a PRIVATE cermony is there own damn business and really does not affect anyone else.
The OFFICIAL cermony is done WITHOUT any refernce to any particular religion or book.
Christianity, Judism and and Islamism are esentially the same religion that hase been localized to particular geopolitical regions. In their most basic forms they are all positive forces in the world. However, at any one point in time (both past, present and future) they all have been or will be subjugated for a particular groups desire for power over others.
If any one faith kills one of the other two faiths, he is killing his own faith and history.
Never has there been a better example of seperation of church and state.
They should be sworn in on and obey and defend the constitution of the USA.
firstly of all, we are at war with terrorists and ellison has not voiced his support for the war on terror; so as a muslim who has remained silent about the war on terror, i suspect he shares the terrorist views of our society's 'moral depravity and ungodliness'; he must share their view that we must be destroyed as the final solution; christians similarly hold the view that we are morally corrupt but they don't agree with the muslims' final solution; another issue i have with ellison and muslims in general, is his view of women; virtue and modesty are desirable things in women and men, yet muslims see fit to treat women as if they are the cause of non-virtuous behavior in men
It is not the tradition of 250 yearss to swear on the bible that began, I believe in the late 1800's or early 1900's. The official swearfing in prohibits religious texts (which is the 'tradition' of this country as well as the law.) Evangelical christians have created an alternate history which has little to do with fact. This is why history should be taught carefully and deeply.
Why is this not viewed as a clear case of a politician pandering to the biggoted redneck demographic? Just another round of 'They' want to ruin 'our' country. The founding documents of the United States are pretty clear on this. No religious test means just that. This is the same group that worried about JFK being 'too ethnic' because he was an Irish Catholic. Wake up folks, the 1860s were a long time ago.
To all you leftist, quisling traitors...read, re-read, and then read again the following post from 'linky' above. Hopefully, you might hold some rudimentary capacity to comprehend the significance thereof.
AlqaedacratsDec 23rd, 2006 - 15:03:46
Al Qaeda has sent a message to leaders of the Democratic party that credit for the defeat of congressional Republicans belongs to the terrorists.
In a portion of the tape from al Qaeda No. 2 man, Ayman al Zawahri, made available only today, Zawahri says he has two messages for American Democrats.
“The first is that you aren’t the ones who won the midterm elections, nor are the Republicans the ones who lost. Rather, the Mujahideen — the Muslim Ummah’s vanguard in Afghanistan and Iraq — are the ones who won, and the American forces and their Crusader allies are the ones who lost,” Zawahri said, according to a full transcript obtained by ABC News.
Zawahri calls on the Democrats to negotiate with him and Osama bin Laden, not others in the Islamic world who Zawahri says cannot help.
“And if you don’t refrain from the foolish American policy of backing Israel, occupying the lands of Islam and stealing the treasures of the Muslims, then await the same fate,” he said.
linky
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/al_qaeda_sends_.html
'In the past 10 years, the christian right has ruined this country. Thanks to them and their election of Bush - for religious reasons only - got us in the Iraq mess, and thanks to them 3,000 american soldiers and 500,000 iraqis lie dead. All because that idiot Bush is pro-life and anti-gay marriage.'
Jim, it is very obvious you are a staunch left-wing Liberal. You all never cease to amuse me when it comes to a political debate. One thing I've come to realize is that when you Liberals have nothing to say, you resort into name-calling. And by the way, do your have facts to back up the claims you made above? I doubt it. You Liberals always go around whining about people of faith being intolerant, now tell me why is Christmas so much under attack and some other things that's associated with faith.
As an independent thinker, I don't always agree with most of the things both the Republican and Democratic parties do on our behalf in Washington but the hypocrisy of you Liberals is something else. personally, I think this country do need a third party aside from the two agenda-driven ones. it's just a shame how divided this country has been over issue that we should all unite over. By the way, Iraq is not so much mess as the media portrays it -- we all know the media is biased anyway. Peace!
Some of you people are completely ignorant about Islam. Try doing a little research on Wahhabi Islam. Ellison is staunchly backed by Wahhabis. All I have to say is that those with liberal progressive views is watch out. You will be the first to become dhimmis. At least some of us will fight but alot of you seem to be ready to become dhimmis.
Goode is another Republican macaca - who are slowly, but surely being kicked out of office. Racist Senator Allen is out. Next in Sen. Warner in 2008.
Islam and the koran specifically teaches death to any non-muslim. I believe this might suggest intollerance, thus the absurb arguement of the critics of Mr. Goode. The proof lies in the world-wide jihad that is presently underway. The Constitution of the United States will not tolerate this type of lawless activity that the newly elected congressman will promote by default as a muslim. Taking an Oath of Office upon such a book as the koran is a public statement in support of lawless intolerance such as is supported by Mr. Ellision - by default.
Some of these post's just go to show you that Americans are still terrorfied of Muslims and have no idea what their own constitution has to say about religion. Show no tollerance of others, and don't understand the true history of the country or for that matter the world that they inhabit. Reminds me of a movie called eyes wide shut.
First and foremost, if anyone has any kind of logic, it makes more sense to swear on something that you fully believe in. Does it make any kind of sense to swear on a book that doesn't wholly embody your beliefs? Aren't we a secular society where we are free to practice any and all beliefs? If so, why do we have to be bound to swear on the Bible?
wow, the level of ignorance about what the koran says is amazing here. People like Cattledog clearly have a bumper sticker understanding of religion. Islam and Christianity are NOT the same, never were, never will be. In fact they espouse a polar opposite value system. Ellison wants to swear to uphold the constitution on a book the clearly claims to supersede the constitution,and commands it's followers to wage war for it to do so. Even the most cursory reading of the koran will show you that. Read the koran first, then let's talk. Clearly few of you actually have. (yes, I have, and the Bible as well. There is NO equivalence there)
Exactly what do the Crusades or the inquisition have to do with Muslims' butchering hundreds of innocents around the world TODAY? Muslims routinely kill more innocents per month then the inquisition did in it's entire history, but don't let that stop you from setting up your straw men, it is after all, all you've got.
I amazed and appalled to discover how much intolerance continues to exist in a country whose constitution specifically promotes tolerance, particularly of the religious type. We are *all* immigrants here. The only people who are not are Native Americans who we managed (in all our tolerance) to slaughter in huge numbers. Until one has read through the Christian and Jewish bibles (which are not the same, though superficially they may appear to be) and the Koran in their original languages, I don’t think one can accuse one of being more violent and intolerant than the other. All have sparked fanatic adherents to commit violence in their defense but the majority of adherents to any of the three are not so inclined and just want to live out their lives in peace.
I work with and for people of all faiths, and have traveled extensively for work and pleasure meeting people of all faiths, not with tours but by venturing into communities on my own, and universally I have overwhelmingly found ordinary individuals of all faiths to be curious about the culture of others and individually tolerant of my difference. As Americans we should applaud and welcome that rather than suppress it and persecute those who would champion it.
Shame on us….we of all people should know better.
My guess is that most of the mass murders in American history were 'Christians', and I don't think that is reason to disqualify Christians from holding office. I believe there are a few blood thirst episodes in the Bible as well.
I'm a Muslim Canadian originally from Pakistan. While growing up there I remember a Catholic Christen was the Chief Justice of our supreme court. I also remember, watching on TV, a group of Christian law makers swearing in on bible. I still believe that America is a great nation and we Pakistani Muslims can learn zillions of things from your experience. However, I would suggest, the Americans should also learn a few lessons on religious tolerance from Pakistani Muslims.
He sounds like he has a lot in common with Joe McCarthy. There was a commie behind every bush, now he fears a Muslim behind every Bush. Let the man be sworn in with what he holds sacred. We have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. That applies to all, not just freedom of Christian religion. I happen to be Christian and my Bible teaches love and tolerance to All, not just those who believe as I do. Don't be guilty of the same thing you criticize.
It's no coincidence that Goode is from Virginia, the old heart of the slave-holding Confederacy. That's where all the preachers and good Christians so much believed that Jesus approved of the holding of another human being as property that they were willing to kill for that belief. Fortunately, their army was broken by the hand of Freedom, but some of those old beliefs die hard with types like Goode. As a constituent of Mr. Ellison in Minneapolis, I say he can swear his oath on whatever book is sacred to him, America stands for religious freedom and if Mr. Goode doesn't like it maybe he'd be more comfortable in another land. Mr. Ellison is an American, elected by us to represent us in Congress. And no I am not a Muslim, who cares? Muslims who are loyal to America are welcome citizens in my book.
islam is an insect religion suitable for insect societies, americans have evolved beyond that; ellison, along with others, has chosen to align himself with this insect faith, goode is right in sounding the alarm
And another thing while I think about all the posts in this thread. Perhaps we should count dead bodies associated with their respective faiths. The fundamentalist El Queda Jihadist are responsible for 9/11 and the deaths of 3,000 plus individulas since the terrorist attacks. The born again fundamentalist christian, ex alcoholic/cocain user in the white house is responsible for, depending on which study you read, between 50,000 to 500,000 deaths since 9/11. Who is, and by what definition, is winning? No one in this country seems to care about all the dead bodies as long as it isn't an american service man who died. How many people have died in the same time frame because of Iranian forgien policy? Syrian forgien policy? Isreali forgein policy? If you want to use body count as a basis for judging I think we all know who wins. Americans love a winner don't they. Have the ends justified the means. Is America safer now or does America have more enemies? Is America now more isolated or more integrated into the global community?
Interesting comments. Tradition in the swearing in? The traditional swearing in for the Congress is close to that of a juror or witness in a court case, raising ones right hand and taking an oath of truth and/or service. the Bible, Torah, Quran or a stack of papers is not a part of it, it is something added by the individual to 'make it personal'.
As for Rep-elect Ellison having an agenda, I am sure that he does. If he didn't, he would not have been backed by a major party or elected by those that he is to represent. Let's give him a chance before we begin mudslinging here!
As for Congressman Goode, I hear the voice of fear and insecurity, not logic or values. Unfortunately, that voice is shared by many, worldwide. There may very well be a threat from radical Islam, but we will not beat it back with hateful rhetoric.
This too, shall pass.
When in Rome, do as Romans.
If you were to go to their country, i.e. the Middle East you would be fully expected to obey their laws and customs, or face extreme punishment. Our laws and customs should be observed as well; they are not half as intolerant and strict as those in Muslim countries.
As far as the Crusades, that was a very unfortunate event in history. But who is doing the killing now? Thousand of innocents have been killed by intolerant Muslim terrorists, and they continue to kill dozens on a daily basis. Research the killings in other countries - they don't always make the news. People are killed everyday in the south of Thailand by the Muslims living there, in the name of their religion.
Such hatred and intolerance ---tsk,tsk,tsk... The American experience is a choice of tolerance over intolerance, often failing, always trying. These people who have lost power and want someone to pay for it are seemingly so hate filled that they cannot remember basic civics lessons learned in PUBLIC school. Their children are being taught to hate, and that is NOT Christian, though they profess to be christian, while essentially worshipping an evil icon named Bush and his enablers, called Republicans. In spite of the previous comment that our founding fathers were all Christian, basic history tells a different story, most being deists, not Christians, most intolerably afraid of established religions in Europe, with their warring ways and enforcing of their particular weapons of religion. It is just possible, that this country was founded on the best interests of people. True, their major heritage leaned more to the European attitudes, but as John Adams asked Thomas Jefferson to write the attempt at the Declaration of Independence, having been rejected himself so very many times, (Adams was probably the foremost Christian there), the effort was essentially successful, probably because the Christian was excluded. Not that there was a real zeal to exclude Christianity, but there certainly was a zeal to prevent the establishment of a state religion. Reading this series of diatribes about just who hates the most and possibly why, leads to the belief that the media's efforts to not report the truth about those demons in the White House, and the truth about their enablers, has created a sect of hatred not easily countered in our society today. What passes for FACT as described above is really belief from indoctrination by hatred and the supposed Religious Right, whose Christianity amounts to crying on TV for money, their real god, andd being laughed about by their users in the Whit House and Republican Party.
America, Rep. Goode has a right to his opinion, and he has a responsibility to his enablers, the voters of that segment of Virginia. They must correct his attitude or encourage it. He can be recalled, if necessary. Bigotry is unfortunate, for the rest of us, but I'm certain he can no longer don his white sheet and sit astride his horse during the lynching he so profoundly seems to want. He will have to find another way, and the way chosen by his Party, seems to be to send our young soldiers off to create a battleground and training ground for terrorism, while murdering innocents. Of course, his conscience can be made much more accomodating if those innocents he is responsible for murdering can be thought of as extremists. Especially those under the age of two, as they would probably become extremists if their parents and siblings are killed for being in a country where we want the oil. If Rep. Goode cares to look at the back of the Bible he likes to clutch, he might just read about a and example of non-hatred. Of course, he wont get the oil that way.
We are not a secular country and the Constitution does not say that 'no religious test shall be required for office'. It says that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor preventing the free practice thereof. Members of Congress do not swear on any religious text when they become members, only in an optional photo opportunity. If they choose to express their faith at that time, they are free to do so, especially if their faith was part of the basis of their election, as it has been with many conservative republicans, including Congressman Goode and President Bush.
How can anyone that is paying attention to all the Islamist killings and bombings around the world not agree with Goode. There is no room in this country for their sick thinking and no more should be allowed to enter.
Our nation is based on the Rule of Law. Not the Rule of Islam.
The roots of our legal system have a foundation in the 10 commandments.
Therfore, swearing in with your hand on the bible represents a vow to uphold the rule of law. It is not a religious thing, it is an historical thing. Placing your hand on the Koran symbolizes that you place the Rule of Islam above the Rule of Law.
i think we should just round up all the muslums, put them in a cage and make thems listen to christmas carols 24hrs aday. i mean who do they think they are?
i think we(the christians) have proven over the years that we can kill more peaple than anyone in the name of god, so our god is definetly the one we should be swaring to. just wait till the old white guy with the beard finds out people in HIS government are swaring in to a loser.....were all doomed!!!!
The Media is creating this story. Americans could care less what the Congressman puts his hand on. I have not heard about this story anywhere among the people I work with, at my church, among my neighbors, or anywhere else. This is a totally media driven story. To go a step further, terrorism isn't caused by Islam. Osama is about as Muslim as Charles Manson is a Christian. Osama and deranged lunatics like him are murderes. I guess the media is having a slow holiday season and editors decided to make a story where there really isn't one.
Let us not forget the issues that have been maintained in the spirit of 'tradition'. Slavery, a woman's right to vote, all protestant religions, among other 'progressive ideas'. Is it such a radical idea that a person chooses a different book of a moral code based on stories of a less that total fact? Before we condemn the Koran for not having a strict moral code, we should: A. read it. B. Check out some of the Old Testament stories. I seem to remember quite a bit of killing and persecution in there. Bottom line, let's see how he does the job of representing his prople, rather than the God he chooses to worship.
OK....if all Muslims are bad.....I call for each and every Muslim serving in the US Military to be discharged immediately. They obviously wouldn't put their lives on the line to protect Christians.
I'm sure they have some covert mission they are carrying out in the name of Allah....all the while pretending to protect the USA.
Seriously, most of the Shrub Lovers always talk about supporting our troops....what...only the Christian kind? I suppose that you don't notice that a huge number of soldiers killed have HISPANIC names either. I was taught never to generalize-there are good and bad people everywhere, and that white trash is the worst kind of trash. (I'm white, ex-military, and I prefer The Golden Rule to religion.)
Mr. Ellison was ELECTED by AMERICANS of all faiths.
The fact that Goode linked Immigration to this swearing in biz is ridiculous....Mr. Ellison was never an immigrant, and I bet his ancestors didn't come here of their own free will. Back then, immigration was fine, huh?
I'm actualy astounded (and frightened) that anyone sides with goode on this. This country was founded by indviduals fleeing religious persecution--and the constitution guarantees the right to practice our faith as we see fit. To agree with Goode is obviously a stand against the constitution, a violation of all that is good about this counry, and, in the final analysis, a lack of patriotism, disrespectful of all those who fought and died to keep these freedoms for future generations.
'Ever hear of the Inquisition? I'm amazed at how soon those of Judeo-Christian descent forget their own faith's violent and intolerant history.' and that happened when? middle ages to be sure. Islam is still stuck in medieval times....they are extremely intolerant. This is not even a point for discussion, just look at muslim societies everywhere. Other faiths don't count.
Should not a basic education, literacy, and coherent discourse be required to post comments on this extreme leftist-Ellison topic? Buzolibre's misspellings below include: 'post's [posts/postings], terrorfied [terrified], constitution [Constitution], tollerance [tolerance]. Stir in mixed metaphors, grammatical errors, botched punctuation, and incomplete and run-on sentences for a real treat. This level of imbecility must be that of an Ellison suckling. His commentary is more appropriate for some obscene scribbling on the wall of a public toilet in Al-Quaeda-ville. Instead of 'eyes wide shut' consider an education wide shut. Just keep your critical eye on elliptical Ellison and his ilk.
buzolibreDec 23rd, 2006 - 15:37:03
Some of these post's just go to show you that Americans are still terrorfied of Muslims and have no idea what their own constitution has to say about religion. Show no tollerance of others, and don't understand the true history of the country or for that matter the world that they inhabit. Reminds me of a movie called eyes wide shut.
You have my vote. And while you're at it, do we really need 'In God we Trust' on our currency? Separation.
'In constitution we uphold' would work for me. Freedom OF religion is one thing, but we also need freedom FROM religion.
You wrote:
'They should be swearing on the constitution, period'
RJones (12/23/06, 14:28:56) said:
Look at ANY country that has a MUSLIM majority and you will see how other faiths are treated in those societies...For further proof immigrate to a Muslim majority country as a Christian, Jew or Hindu and see how well you are treated.
I don't get the impression that RJones has actually followed his own advice here. I lived in Guinea, West Africa (85+% Muslim, the rest Christian and animist) for two years, and found that other religions were largely tolerated and appreciated. Most Muslims I worked and lived with were interested in discussion of other religious beliefs, and emphasized the similiarities across religions rather than the superiority of one faith over another. RJones, I think you've been watching too much FOX News...or taking it too seriously.
'It is a symbolism but Ellison wants to make it personal. His religious agenda has no place here regarding his elected duties. He is an elected servant of the people of all faiths and should not be using this as a platform to further any cause that he may have.'
In Washington, they are all elected servants of the people of all faiths. Why don't the bigots try to force Brownback of Kansas to swear in on the Koran, since he represents Kansas Muslims? And if Brownback prefers to swear in on the Bible, tell him his religious agenda has no place here.
There is no place in America for those who would force a fellow American to embrace any religious symbol, much less swear on it. Think about that. Get over it.
Judge the Muslim congressman by his future legislative record, rather than by the warped rules of narrow, bigoted religous intolerance.
Coming for the Minneapolis, it was very interesting to watch the campaign of Mr. Ellison (a Democrat, black Muslim) against Mr. Fine (a Republican, white Jewish person). While I personally would not have supported either if lived in their district, I think this really is an issue of religious tolerance. The Christian right believes that the separation of church and state is a fallacy. To them we are a Christian nation. But what kind of Christian nation? Mainline Protestant males who traditionally held positions of power? These people are no more tolerant than those they condem.
Jesus was tolerant and preached charity to all. The real message is love thy neighbor. That means respect their ways, not hate them. I think using the Koran has the same meaning ( reverence ) that the Bible does for the Cristian lawmakers, and should be honored in the swearing in ceremony.
Simple Christian Logic.
Muslim Hindu Christian Jewish Peace Plan By William Glick www.equalsouls.org (The Jewish Hindu Dialogue)
The desire to bring peace to the world is most likely the inner mood of most of us today. To-do that we need to come to a common
understanding of religious terminology and beliefs.
For example most of us have no idea that the name Allah comes from the Hebrew letter Alef, our A, in the English alphabet. This simple
point contains enough information for every Christian, Jew and Hindu to accept Allah as a name of God.
I will explain further, in the 'Old Testament' which Jewish people call the 5 books of Moses, God explains that He is the beginning to
the end. This same idea is expressed in the New Testament. Revelation 22:13, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the
Beginning and the End. This English usage of Alpha is based on the Hebrew Alef. Also in the Hindu (Vedic) scripture, Bagavad Gita,
Krishna says 'of letters I am A.'
Has God sent so many messengers each with a different message? Is He sitting in the Garden of Eden laughing at us? I think not! We have
twisted His message based on our own material desire, creating our own Hell on Earth.
The objection we find from our Muslim brothers and sisters today comes from the desire to bring the world back to God and His ways. We
find this mood in our Jewish-Christian tradition also. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools
despise wisdom and discipline.
This lack of discipline, this foolish rush of insane materialism is what every deeply religious person objects to, no matter which faith
he or she is coming from. We can take good example from our Amish brothers and Hindu (Vedic) sages.
An error of modern society and religion is to identify the body as the self. The Bhagavad-Gita clearly explains that we should see and
accept the spiritual essence (the soul) of each living being as spiritually equal. There it is said, 'The humble sage, by virtue of true
knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle Brahman, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcast].' [Bagavad Gita
5.18]
How does the learned sage see every living entity with equal vision? He sees the spirit soul within the heart of each of God's
creations. He understands that although living forms may appear different, those appearances are only the external coverings of the
soul, and that spiritually we are all equal.
A careful analysis shows that all problems result from our first mistake of identifying the body as the self. If we identify ourselves
by race, religion and ethnic group we will then suffer or enjoy the results of that identity, but the fact is we are spiritually equal
and the bodily identity that we accept is both temporary and insignificant compared to our eternal spiritual identity. We suffer due to
birth, disease, old age and death; we need not identify with the body, which is being afflicted by these difficulties.
If everyone understood and acted on the level of the soul rather than the body, the world's problems would practically cease.
Understanding the difference between matter and spirit, and that God is the controller of all things, is the essence of knowledge.
It is natural that when we become overwhelmed by difficulties, we become aware of our dependence on God. Unfortunately, due to our deep
attachment to materialism, we are drawn to perceive religion in much the same manner, as we perceive ordinary social activities. That
is, we become attached to identifying with the external or social side of religion, while we forget its essence-loving service to God.
Our modern use of the word religion, expresses an external alterable faith, while the Sanskrit word dharma, implies an internal or
essential eternal relationship with God. Our religion or faith can change but the soul's relationship with God is eternal. For example,
I may claim that I am a Christian today, but I may adopt the practices of a Hindu or of a Jew tomorrow. However, whatever faith you my
follow, the essence of that faith is loving service to God.
We must understand that our Muslim brothers and sisters who have come to understand the true message of Allah accept all of us as
children of God based on this verse from the Koran. 2.62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the
Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear
for them, nor shall they grieve.
We should also understand that as a nation, nay as a human race if we do not come to follow God's laws and develop our love for Him and
His creation, our future is all too clear.
For Our Lord says: Isaiah 46: I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will
stand, and I will do all that I please.
Thank You William Glick www.equalsouls.org
The concern here is that conflicts may arise between the US constitution and the Islam 'constitution' as outlined in the Qur'an (Koran). Also known as the 'sharyah law'. Most Muslims believe that the 'syaryah law' is 'Allah's' law, and hence is superior to any other law and must be obeyed as the 'supreme law' by all faithful Muslims.
In Aceh, for instance, the Sharyah law in now the law of the land, and not the law that governs other parts of Indonesia. There is no guarantee at all of separation between religion and state. 'Allah's' law is the supreme law in Aceh.
Do we want 'Allah's' law to be the laws of our beloved country, USA?
GabeDec 23rd, 2006 - 13:31:22
Intolerance is a very dangerous thing. I would want someone to swear on the book that they considered most sacred, not a book someone else holds sacred.
Wouldn't you believe someone more that swore on their own mother's grave and not
'I swear on your mama's grave.'
Report this comment