US Features
Bush veto brings out fringes, from the left and right
By Frank Fuhrig May 2, 2007, 14:14 GMT
Washington - Mary Lou Greenberg gripped a slotted serving spoon and took out her frustrations over the Iraq war on a cast-iron skillet.
The makeshift percussion instrument delivered a piercing rhythm to lead the chant by protestors Tuesday evening outside the White House in Washington.
Another woman tooted to the beat on a whistle, while Greenberg and about 10 other people chanted: 'Impeach Bush for war crimes - stop the war now.'
They gathered, Greenberg said, in anticipation of US President George Bush's veto of legislation that would have forced him to start withdrawing US troops from Iraq by October. Inside the White House, Bush did address cameras to announce that he had rejected the measure.
'Pots and pans have been used by people around the world to protest things when people are dissatisfied with the government,' said Greenberg, wearing a hat with a rainbow-coloured pin and a black T-shirt with photos of Bush on a wanted poster.
'We were not satisfied with that legislation (to force an eventual withdrawal), ... but we're protesting the veto because it indicates that Bush is not willing to consider pulling the troops out. We're saying the troops must be pulled out now. That's our deadline.'
She identified most of the protestors as members of the Washington chapter of The World Can't Wait, an anti-war group with alleged links to a Maoist revolutionary group.
More than four years into a war that has lost popular support, the scene outside the White House underlined the lack of resonance of the protest movement, even after the issue helped the centre-left opposition Democrats take control of Congress in last year's elections.
Sunny Chapman's grey and white rabbit, Bugsy, sat placidly on a purple leash and twitched his nose outside the wrought-iron White House gates. Chapman called him their anti-war mascot and a 'bunny against Bush.'
A few metres from the anti-war group, a handful of counter- demonstrators waved US flags, held placards and ridiculed their rivals across the granite sidewalk. Kristinn Taylor lit a yellow cigarillo and contrasted Tuesday's rally with the massive Vietnam War-era protest movement.
'If I were Bush, I'd be looking out my window going, 'Oh, no! This is just what Nixon faced in Vietnam,'' he jeered at the chanting group. 'There must be six or seven of you.'
Both sides blended into the usual evening bustle of joggers, bicyclists and tourists riding Segway scooters on historic Pennsylvania Avenue, closed to traffic in front of the White House since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.
Taylor said that he and the counter-demonstrators with him were members of the Washington chapter of Free Republic, a controversial right-wing internet forum.
'We figured there'd be a few anti-American leftists,' said Taylor. 'We figured we'd come out and root for the home team in the war on terror.'
A woman in a red blazer tapped his arm as she walked past and said, 'Thank you guys for being here.'
Chomping a cigar, another counter-demonstrator shouted at the anti-war group in a mocking, whiny tone: 'Freedom is too hard. Stop the war now.'
© 2007 dpa - Deutsche Presse-AgenturCOMMENT
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Older Talkback
page: 1
'By the way, how does anyone really expect the very inexperienced Obama'
Lemme guess, you are a big Michael Steele fan?
To the commenter above, would you care to illuminate us on the skills and experience the current President brings to the table in such a dangerous world?
So, exactly how many people from the right wing pro-war group actually were in Iraq, fought in Iraq, had children fighting in Iraq, are nursing disabled wounded children from Iraq, Buried murdered children who were killed needlessly in Iraq?
War on terror my butt. There have always been terrorists and there always will be. It's just now, someone has managed to package it and market it successfully to the sheep of this nation. It's just like when the Catholic Church created hell in the Sixth century to keep the populace controlled by fear of an afterlife of fire and brimstone.
Wake up you so-called freedom fighters. War is profit. Pure and simple. Peace is non-profitable. JFK planned a pull out from Vietnam in 1963 and he was killed a week later by the government. Johnson is sworn in and reverses JFK's withdrawl policies to ensure a nice, long profitable war.
illuminate? great choice of words
how about ' enlighten ' , intelligence isn't
a promise .
I didn't know the world can't wait was another RCP front. How disappointing.
hey BR, how much experience do you think Bush had when he became President? It wasn't much, yet righties insist on denigrating opponents with that line. Funny.
Thank you Bob, but I have and did and proudly so! Think about that when you safely go to sleep tonight!
Bush is experienced enough to be Commander-in-Chief??? A fence post can standby and do nothing but that doesn't make it fit to be Commander-in-Chief!
I am stunned at the way democrats and republicans are making war a political issue.
i guess we as a human beings, have still not become smart enough to realize that politicians are treating us all like sheeps.
Show me the experience of King George when he was coming to the white house.
Or mey be you should choose experienced Dick for new presidente.
Nobody is experienced till he or she get to it.
President Bush is NOT the commander-in-chief of the PEOPLE, but of the ARMED FORCES - a very important distinction, essential to the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship. It's scary that he doesn't seem to get that, or doesn't seem to care. Or perhaps he does understand and is just taking advantage of the fact that many unthoughtful people don't get it. I'm sure the people pulling his strings get it.
Why do many people like these 'Free Rupublic'ans seem to think that being anti-war means you are anti-American? Was America founded on freedom for everyone or was it founded as a military base? Is it anti-American to think that the 3,200 Americans killed so far in Iraq didn't need to die--not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqis. And why do war sympathizers constantly tout this was as our 'War on terror' when the decision to go to Iraq had nothing to do with terror. Why would we go to war with Iraq over their presumed possession of weapons of mass destruction when North Korea has flouted UN regulations, has tested REAL weapons of mass destruction, and has threatened to use them? ...Maybe if they had more oil. I'm not saying that we should go to war with North Korea either, just that there is a readily apparent discrepancy that the American people are choosing to ignore.
Pathetic red-baiting crap. Who cares if some militantly anti-thinking Freeper can chom cigars and yell? The question is, who's telling the truth?
If it takes a communist to tell the truth about this war, then I say we need more communists.
We sure as hell don't need these so-called journalists who absolve themselves of the task of uncovering the truth, and prefer to just present things as a 'he said, she said' drama. Save that for daytime TV.
We need a truth surge!!!
Please give me a break. Bush has you living in fear. Kerry would have done a significantly better job than Bush for many reasons including the fact that international relations are his mother ship. Bush on the other hand is a global failure & moron that does not listen to his people, but dictates to them. His head is stuck in the ground, he fires honest workers so 'his people' aka 'Bush agenda supporters' hold power. He surrounds his self with 'yes men' b/c he fires his staff otherwise. Bush is creating a mess for the next president to clean up - I swear, I could do a better job leading. How? B/c I care about what the people want. Bush only seems to be concerned with himself and his Christian followers.
The majority of attackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian. Attacking Iraq to fight terrorism was like blockading Cananda to stop illegal immigrants from Mexico. The occupation is a failure and the surge is only bringing about the deaths of more of our soldiers. The fight against the Taliban continues in Afghanistan all but unnoticed as the Moron-In-Chief keeps the focus on his lost cause in Iraq.
Once again it's 'The Fringes.' What would opinion mongers do without them?
Why not call for an end to fringe analysis (So predictable, so hackneyed.) and ask: What does the bog of inaction and indifference in the bloated center offer as a way _out_ OR a way to _victory_ in Iraq? Forced to actually do some thinking, take a stance, the masters of the meaningless middle would quickly gravitate to the fringes. I happen to believe that migration would be toward _out_, a clear tactic and strategy with benefits,immediate and long range, rather than toward _victory_, a vague, undefined, unachievalbe hope which saddles us to pain and loss for years five, six, seven . . . ?
Whichever would turn out to be the case, point your finger at the middles, not the fringes.
Whackjobs young and old are coming to complain - I think there's another village out there missing its idiot...
What is an anti-war group with Maoist tendencies anyway? The Chinesse aren't Maoist anymore. They are repressive and totalitarian but hardly on the path towards inner harmony.
Since when do we care about an internet chapter of 'nut-jobs for America', anyway? I guess they had nothing better to do than show-up to protest a dozen or so granolas who had the day off their commune.
Sounds like two groups of people I'm glad don't live near me.
First, let's get one thing straight - Iraq at the time Bush attacked it had nothing to do with terror. Second, TERROR is NOT a country, it is tactics. You can't start war on it. Third, I don't know about Obama, but almost anyone will do a better job than the 'Mission Accomplished' guy, occupying the White House at the moment.
You can't have a war on a concept. You can have a war against a people, you can fight a war against a political movement, but you cannot fight a war against an EMOTION. Terror is just that. So long as people are capable of being frightened, there will be terror. It would make just as much sense to launch a war against people who write horror movie screenplays.
The war in Iraq is nothing but a political ruse to distract from the many things going wrong in the United States. There is no ideal. There is no clear goal. We are simply fighting to fight because it is sort of profitable. We had no reason to go into Iraq in the first place. It is not our place to enforce OUR beliefs onto other nations. It would be quite another if the people of that nation appealed to us for help and support. Rather, we forcibly removed their political figurehead and removed the one person that held the warring factions and tribes of that nation apart.
We made a mistake, plain and simple. We cannot clean it up. We don't have the ability or the compassion to do so. Rather than squandering billions of dollars that we don't even technically have (hello, huge federal deficit) we should pull out, cut our losses, and assist on DIPLOMATIC terms. Pointing a gun at people will not get the desired result, it will simply foster more resentment and belligerence. Pulling out now truly is the best option. We must apologize for our mistakes, oversee the negotiations, and assist with THEIR decisions rather than try to FORCE them to use ours.
But that's not the American way.
How the tide has turned. Now it is G.W. who is flip-flopping. First he was for the war and supporting our troops, now he is vetoing funding for the war. Typical....
Most Americans that side with Bush and his administration do not want to show a charecter of defeatism. They live in fear and have been assurred through political rhetoric that if we defeat them over there they won't be able to follow us back here to America, or if we cut and run they will follow us here. These individuals also follow the reasoning that since 911 and our invasion of Iraq there have been no more incidents in the USA, I beg to defer. All of the anti-american groups currently fighting us in Iraq welcome the fact that we are there on their turf in their environment killing our young sons and daughters one by one, day by day without having to travel, plot, and scehdule our demise in the USA. It's what hey do best, and we allow it to go on through politics. Over 3,000 lives pledged to protect American citizens any where in the World, but who protects them? It's not a bad thing to lose if you've put your best effort forward and learned from your failure. We made a mistake, a terrible mistake and unleased a cultural, religious divide kept in check by a dictator no different than the dictators around the world who rule by fear and extemination. We did have other motives that the common American is unaware of, simply because International politics is not their forte'. We all suffer in the end because we are a Great Nation, we have a giant ego. Because we are Rebulicans or Democrates we must save face, because we were once active soldiers we remain warriors to the end, how unfortuante that we remain blind.
I think this really shows what Bush really wants to do.... Finish what his daddy started.
If Bush tells his wife and kids to go fight for his victory in Iraq then whatever he's doing makes sense.
Hello out there is anyone really paying attention. This 'war on terror' is a lie, it started as a lie and is still a lie. This president is a disgrace. If anyone thinks he's doing a fine job, then you are a absolute idiot. You have no clue what's going. This war is all about profits and the neo-con agenda. There were no WMD's then they said we were spreading freedom and democracy. Only if they elect pro western leaders that we like. We also interfered with other counrties democracies if they elect leaders we don't like.
The 'resonance' of the protest movement is that this war went from having massive support to basically none.
It has been the dogged activists and leaders, like Mary Lou Greenberg, who have refused to be bullied into passivity or mocked into silence.
On February 15, 2003, in NYC where I live, over 500,000 protested this war before it began. Police attacked the crowd, the mayor refused to give permits. But still the overflow crowds made it clear that Ground Zero didn't support their war.
Now, we see who was lying and who refused to be suckers.
It takes some nerve to make fun of the people who came out to protest. 70% are against this war here, the majority of Iraqis support attacks on US occupation forces. But to the conservative/liberal media, we supposedly don't understand what's going on...
I think we do.
This war is about empire and we reject it. It's a losing war, and that loss is going to reconfigure American politics for a generation.
Thank you Mary Lou and every brave person who is ending this war even if the Democrats refuse to listen to the electorate.
I mean, how can you 'spread democracy' (with cluster bombs and puppet governments) when you refuse to practice it?
Bob... with you 100%; but why is more than half the nation blind to this fact? Oh, that's right they weren't yet bush still got to power... what happened to democracy?
SHD-UK, even his daddy realized that it's not worth it. But the 'moron on the hill' finds this too complicated to understand, therefore he listens to the mouthpiece of the petrol lobby - Dick the Hunter.
This war is being fought for and on behalf of Israel, let no one fool you otherwise; The U.S and UK troops will only come home when the Jewish and Israeli lobby decides so.
Impeach Dick Cheney!!!
THIS MAN HAS NO BUSINESS BEING A PRESIDENT AND HE SHOULD BE IMPEACHED IMMEDIATELY.
I AM A VIET-NAM VETERAN, HE IS A DRAFT DODGING YELLOW BELLY WHO HASN'T GOT A CLUE OF WHAT WAR IS ABOUT AND NOTHING TO PERSONALLY LOSE IN IRAQ. WE HAVE LOST FAR TOO MANY MEN AND WOMAN IN IRAQ NOT TO MENTION THE REPULSIVE AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT HAS GONE INTO THIS WAR.
HE SAYS ' MISSION ACCOMPLISHED'. WHAT MISSION ? ,WHAT ACCOMPLISHMENT ?. WE ARE NO CLOSER TO WINNING THIS THAN WE WERE SIX YEARS AGO. ITS TIME TO GET OUT AND CONCENTRATE ON OUR OWN PROBLEMS STATESIDE, SOMTHING HE HAS BEEN A MISERABLE FAILURE AT. ISSUES SUCH AS HEALTH CARE, CARING FOR OUR OUR AGED PEOPLE, DOING SOMETHING ABOUT OIL PRICES ETC. ETC. ARE ALL THE THINGS HE HAS IGNORED.
OUR LEADERS TOLD US THAT IF WE DIDN'T STOP COMMUNISM FROM ENTERING SAIGON, COMMUNISM WOULD BE IN CALIFORNIA THE FOLLOWING YEAR. THAT WAS 40 YEARS AGO. WE LEFT VIET-NAM COMMUNISM INFILTRATED SAIGON AND WENT NO FURTHER. AS A MATTER OF FACT, COMMUNISM IS DEAD. OUR PRESENCE IN IRAQ IS FUELING AN ETERNAL FIRE. LETS GET OUT AND DE-FUSE THE SITUATION. LET THE IRAQIS DO WHATEVER THEY CARE TO DO WITH THEIR GOVERNMENT. LETS IMPEACH THIS MISERABLE FAILURE OF A PRESIDENT AND GET ON WITH OUR LIVES GETTING THE U.S.A.BACK ON TRACK AGAIN.
Bush has violated the US Constitution, Statute law, and international treaty - the Geneva Convention on torture, for one. A former attorney general of the US in promoting impeachment, is most certainly not a 'fringe group.' Neither should Americans who know the law be characterized as such by the writer and publisher of this article.
His Vice-President and higher-level appointees of his administration are culpable in defrauding the American people through manipulating and changing text in documents concerning Department of Interior issues, and scientific findings, in order to benefit certain corporations.
This crook and his cronies should have been impeached and tried years past. Partisan politics have prevented sound ethical judgment on the part of nearly every member of Congress.
Please do not write ignorant commentary, but instead, study the actions, pertinent laws and Articles of the US Constitution.
Dear Bob,
While I was not at the rally I do support those individuals who support the Presidents position on the war in Iraq. First of all I am not a 'right wing pro-war' member of any group. As a veteran and the father of two sons who fought in Iraq I can honestly claim the right to speak.
I agree on your assesment that this war is being extended for the profit of the military-industrial complex that Dwight Eisenhower our 34th President warned us about. I do not agree on the fact that terrorism is not a problem and can't be defeated. Just because it may always be with us does not mean we lay down our arms and give up. It can be by fighting a war the way it should be fought. Someone once said 'War is Hell'. I say that to win a war you make the opponents hell far worse than your own and you will win.
No one hates war more than the soldier but to win you must have the population and the opposing army to the point that they lose their resolve to resist or that they die. Either way the results are the same....Peace!
By the way neither myself or my sons murdered children or anyone else during our terms of service. By the way....were you even there?
I think when 70% of Americans want an end to this debacle in Iraq, it is fascistic media propaganda to call the American people fringe right and left.
pResident bush, by his veto, has shown that he does not support the troops. We now know that this war was for oil (since the 'war on terror' is a hoax, based on bush-cheney's 911 conspiracy).
We know what the neocons and their republican chicken-hawk supporters stand for: big business and greed. By not supporting the troops they have shown that they are not patriotic and not for freedom at all. Freedom is free unless you are a republican, then it costs lots of un-ending wars.
I recommend finding an emergency MoveOn protest today, most are at 5 or 5:30 PM, and GO. If your senator is one of the republicans, demand they vote to over-ride the veto of support for our troops.
if you support this, shut your mouth. your military is falling apart. people are tired for multiple tours of duty. they need human bodies to maintain this so do your duty as a supporter of this war, and sign up and support your country, show the military your support and join them. if you are not able to do this, sign up your child, or another family member.
if you are unwilling to support bush's war in this way, then please climb back under your rock and shut up. and allow us to support the troops the best way possible. in the arms of their families, safe at home, bring them back now.
Frist it was the fear of WMD that justified this war. Then it was the fear of civil war in the region. Now it is the fear that 'they will follow us home if we leave now.' This administration is stuggling to justify a huge mistake. As governments have often done in history, this one is using fear as the largest element of every justificaiton. I am just sorry that so many in our country choose to live in fear. I do not make that choice. Instead, let's live in hope, confidence, and faith in the values that founded this nation.
i was brn in america 1944 .now retired .
for some reason and i know what it is i hate the u.s.a and wish i had some place to go .the lucky ones are the friends and family who died before bush and 9-11
This 'dangerous world' as you describe it, has gotten far more dangerous as a direct result of Presidunce Bush's absent-minded policies.
He squandered the greatest opportunity presented to the U.S. since WWII in the aftermath of 9/11. Instead of improving America, enhancing our energy independence, and providing security by marginalizing our enemies, he took the ignorant cowboy route.
It wasn't 'head them off at the pass,' it was 'chase them into the hills, where we'll never find them.' When the only thing your enemy has to sell is oil, is it smarter to engage in a war that consumes copious amounts of the enemy's product? Or is it smarter to spend that money on making oil a product of the past.
With reduced need for oil, our adversaries in the Middle East would rapidly discover that their patronage was waning, and would over time, start changing their tune. Remember also, that prices reflect who is eager to buy and who is eager to sell.
Finally, by marginalizing oil, we balance the relationship we have with these nations, and in doing so, as Lincoln said, 'the best way to destroy an enemy is to make him your friend.'
The world is dangerous when you make and keep enemies. Keeping enemies is a vital tool of power, as it gives the government a means of distracting the people and grasping more power. Ultimately though, it is removing enemies that conveys greater power through prestige.
Dick Cheney has been served articles of impeachment that has not been publicised in mainstream media.
If Bush were to be impeached then Dick would be president and you dont want that to happen.
Call your local newsmedia and ask if they have any news on the impeachment.The newsmedia is complicit with the Bush Gang and Americans need to get media control back for honest news reporting, even if it means a boycott of some outlets
Why do democrats, and anyone who has ever voted for one or ever will, keep pretending they don't like bombs or when people get shot and killed? Why do they keep blaming republicans for that? Pretty weird.
money makers deliight! lets bring out all the nut case nazis. we need war-war war! I like making money! I am a patriot who enjoys the green stuff, and war material is a great way to riches.
boy, the mere mention of Bush sure brings out the lunatics.
that tells you how much he is hated.....wake up
bush's war needs to be stopped.
impeach him. pull the funding bring the troops home. this is not a war for freedom, democracy or standing up to a threat to the world.
they deserve better then being over worked, put in harms way for nothing but ego and pride. these men and women are our hero's they have done what was asked of them. we should do them justice, bring them home and take care of them. support the troops and bring them back home ALIVE.
Please send Rod back to that village that called earlier.
Wing-man, you are really O Reilly aren't you.
What kind of name is 'Wing-man'? you read too many comic books, the men in white coats are looking for you.
dear get a job May 2nd, 2007 - 19:09:45
that tells you how much he is hated.....wake up
Hated by people who have enough time on their hands to do nothing but rant incessantly about it on the internet? There is a word for people like that: 'Loser' is the word.
Just be grateful that you have your government check and your food coupons and other people doing the earning and fighting for you. We all know that you hate Bush, we get it. You are a good consumer of the media and you are right that Nancy and Harry will probably give you more of my money to sit and complain on your internet porn break.
'Just be grateful that you have your government check'
Are you suggesting that he should get paid to shut up?
'enough time on their hands to do nothing but rant incessantly about it on the internet'
We are all ranting, so you must be a 'loser' with the rest of us!!
By the way, have the 'other people doing the fighting for you' killed Bin Laden yet?Remember him? The mastermind of 9-11? The reason for war.
damn ill be glad when that sob is out of office
'Are you suggesting that he should get paid to shut up?'
No, that he should just shut up. You too 'Rod'.
then we all need to get on our knees and ask president bush to forgive us.?
I mean seriously...the lowest form of debate is name-calling...in this case, red-baiting. Are we supposed to stop thinking, and run, duck and cover because you say a group has 'allegedly Maoist' ties? The question is NOT, 'What do these people call themselves?' The question is, 'Are they telling the truth?'
Christ, you people are worse than Bush.
I mean it though...who owns this website?
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BR -New YorkMay 2nd, 2007 - 14:55:12
That the Commander-in-chief is commanding should not be a surprise to anyone. That's what we (as a nation ) expected in the last election and voted for in 2004. Does anyone think that the appeaser John Kerry would have brought our response to terrorism to anything better than what we have today?? I do not think so. By the way, how does anyone really expect the very inexperienced Obama
to lead us in such a dangerous world?
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