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Bill Clinton's old pardons roil 2008 campaign
By Tony Czuczka Jul 5, 2007, 19:40 GMT
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Older Talkback
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All I know is that in 18 months we'll have a new administration in place to start the clean up process. It will take decades to repair what this bunch of idiots messed up, but what can you say-somebody voted them in.
It is entirely disrespectful, uncalled for, tacky, below the belt and unforgiveable of Tony Snow & other republicans to refer to PRESIDENT CLINTON as the 'guy who used to be govenor of Arkansas'. He was PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA for TWO TERMS and is considered highly as a GLOBAL STATESMAN. Did Democrats refer to former President Reagan as 'that 'B' rated jelly bean eating actor from California'? I do not like President Bush but I refer to him as President. This is the PROPER AND RESPECTFUL way to refer to a SITTING or FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE FREE WORLD.
Tony Snow is a little bitty man - something he confirms himself almost daily. Maybe I'll start referring to him as Snow Blow. How would he like that? Maybe I'll take the 'w' off my keyboard and call BUSH 'dubya'.
I am sick and tired of the Republican Party trashing a former PRESIDENT. I am sick and tired of the lack of proper etiquite & conduct used by people in politics. Use your manners, Snow Blow - your mouth is conduct unbecoming.
For all the DEMBHOLE DOOFUSES out there(operant/relevant portions of words ^SSHOLES+DUMB-DEMOCRATS=DEMBHOLES) let us remember that one MARK RICH was represented by his attorney LEWIS 'SCOOTER' LIBBY then convicted by prosecutor PATTY FITZGERALD - AND THEN PARDONED BY PRESIDENT D^CKHEAD CLINTON!!! Whereupon RICH fled to EUROPE and his wife 'contributed' monies to the CLINTONS!!! Was it 'revenge' thay caused FITZGERALD to 'go after' LIBBY even after AFTER he knew it was RICHARD ARMITAGE at STATE DEPT. who mentioned PLAME's name to NOVAK and set-off this kerfuffle - who knows??? One thing for sure VALERIE PLAME and her hubbie JOE WILSON weren't covert when they listed themselves in WHO'S WHO '...as the former ambassador and his C.I.A. wife'!!!
Maybe you're just upset because you can't handle hearing the truth.
Clinton was an adulterer, who committed perjury, sold secrets to China for political contributions, pardoned his half brother of cocaine conspiracy charges, pardoned Marc Rich, who fled the US after being indicted for tax evasion, and pardoned a 30 year old cocaine cartel boss whose parents gave to the Clinton library.
I understand that some people feel there is some corruption in politics and I’m sure there is, but please don’t think they started with President Bush, there was far more corruption having to do with Bill and Hillary Clinton than any other president in office.
Adulterer
Committed perjury
TravelGate
The list could go on and on…
You want a fresh start in politics, maybe that’s exactly what we need but I’m sure that it won’t happen with another Clinton in office.
Clinton was an adulterer, who committed perjury, sold secrets to China for political contributions, pardoned his half brother of cocaine conspiracy charges, pardoned Marc Rich, who fled the US after being indicted for tax evasion, and pardoned a 30 year old cocaine cartel boss whose parents gave to the Clinton library.
I understand that some people feel there is some corruption in politics and I’m sure there is, but please don’t think they started with President Bush, there was far more corruption having to do with Bill and Hillary Clinton than any other president in office.
Adulterer
Committed perjury
TravelGate
The list could go on and on…
Oh, and Bill & Hitlery killed Vince Foster right in the west wing, and had his body dumped in the park.
Murderers.
You want a fresh start in politics, maybe that’s exactly what we need but I’m sure that it won’t happen with another Clinton in office.
Both Dems and Reps indulge in these dirty tricks, and I doubt if either of them can claim the moral high ground here. Sure, if someone wanted to split hairs, s/he could come up with differences between Clinton pardon and Bush pardon, but the fact remains that both of them are/were beholden to corporate money and both know very well which side their bread is buttered on, and who paid for that butter. ;)
Vote for third party candidates next time who are not beholden to corporate money.
Peace.
As for ^ickhead clinton, him and his ^lowjob whore should get out of this great country. We don't deserve to live among trash like them. He was never a President and to my dying day I will diss that SOB every chance I can. GOD only help this country if all the stupid people vote for his ^hore wife. Just a reminder folks, it wasn't long ago that Monica was crawling around the White House floor putting everything she could get her hands on in her mouth!! Nice man, that clinton guy!!
The vitriol in these comments takes me back to the 'bad old days' when Bill Clinton was President and every able-bodied Republican not only hated him . . . but they also hated his wife, his politics, his administration and, of course, his success.
This deep-seated hatred is probably why Hillary, in the end, won's stand a chance of winning the general election.
Move on, America! There are other candidates to choose from. Let's stop the car, open the door and leave both sets of these idiots in the dirt by the side of the road and get-the-hell on with the life of our nation.
What all of you miss as you're firing shots at each other, is that they are all liars, who will say whatever they think will play to the audience they want pander to.........they all cheat, shade the truth, exaggerate and work hard at not doing the work of the American people. But no one wants to hear that do you? All of you are either one one side or the other. Where, in our Constituition does it say there are only to be two political parties? No where, that's where. And until there is a third, viable political party that actually represents the 75% of the people who think George Bush squandered our good will after 9/11 by invading the wrong country..... a third political party who is afraid the other political party doesn't get that there are actually bad people in the world, who really do want to kill us, and that can't be cured by sitting around the campfire, holding hands, singing Kubaya and giving peace a chance.......we're screwed. You partisan political hacks should put your effort into finding us a third party or fourth party candidate who cab tell the truth, and knows how to solve the problem of Muslims who want to us.
It must really 'roil' all of you neo-cons that 6 years after he was President Bill Clinton is and has always been more popular that GWB (except of course after September 11 when anyone in that position would have been highly rated).
Even after September 11, 2001 if the current administration would have done the right thing, concentrate on Afghanistan, eliminate OSB and then put the time and effort to secrure this country from within, not attack countries for no reason, they could have been regarded as some of the best in history.
But no, this group lives on daily lies. Impeach the lot of them!
We can sling mud at both Clinton and Bush (there is plenty to sling on bothe sides) but there is only one place we should start regarding the elected or to be elected officials and that is in Ccongress. It is time for a complete overhaul, and I mean kick them all out on their duf's, in both Houses (Senate and House) Lets start with getting some sensible people running the country that CARE for the People and the Country. One thing for sure, Hillary is a dangerous person and so is Obama, just look hard at their backgrounds.
Bill more popular, of course he is, probably because every woman in America wanted a red nose ride and still dreams of it.
I'm afraid to even comment here because the Clintons might have me whacked.
Clinton's wrong doings make Bush's wrong doings proper, how exactly?
Don't just make a general statement like '... a dangerous person and so is Obama ...' without backing it up.
Show us what you got.
It really gets my goat when I hear some people say that because William Jefferson Clinton or some other jackass before him did something wrong; that it's ok for them to do it too. Two wrongs DO NOT make a right.
Thing Bush's statement on Libby showed contempt for the Rule of Law and the American people. What he really said was-fxxx you, I will do what I damned well please.
I am incensed by this outrageous and flagrant abuse of executive power!
If there was ever a cause and a time for the American people to come together as one nation and march against King George that time is now!
This trial was not a witch-hunt or a partisan political attack. The decision to pursue this case was made by a special prosecutor who is a Republican who was appointed by a Republican attorney general and the judge that presided over the trial was himself a Republican. Additionally, there was a unanimous decision by the appeals court to deny Libby's request for a stay of his sentence that included one of the most conservative appointees of President Ronald Reagan's administration.
In his book ``A Charge to Keep,'' President Bush said no verdict should be touched unless strong new evidence emerges. In Texas, he denied all but one death-sentence appeal out of 153 made.
This administration has now without question, proven that they have no respect for the rule of law. This decision is an affront to all Americans who have struggled to make this country great. Now is the time to organize a civil and peaceful protest across the entire country to show the criminals that run the White House that the American People are proud, ethical, and just and will not take any more lies, deceptions, and abuses of power.
Untill some reforms are made there will never be a system thet stands for democracy .THe whole funding of the candidates,the system of electors,the existence of only two parties ,the meddling of chuches in politics,the corrupt system of lobbies intervening for corporate bizness,the lack of focussing on content when debating political issues,falling back on mudslinging and character assasination,etc,etc.All that makes for a system that reveres democracy but does not practise it .It is enough to look at posts describing Hillary Clinton as a whore (must be the final argument ) to be convinced something is very wrong with the way discussions are conducted .
Why are there no more discussions about health care,education,the war in Iraq,the miltary industrial complex without mud slinging ?
I am afraid people using these tacts simply lack cognitive capcity to understand these issues ,yet they are willing to voice an opinion.THeir failure to understand the true nature of things is in fact a failure of the system,a failure of democracy .
I notice these malfunctions more in the arguments more in republican cenacles .Enough evidence is given by the whole Lewinsky story ,which in fact was a bubble not even meriting more attention than the casual Paris Hilton affair .Yet it was wipped up and blown out of proportion for more than a year ,a very special Kenneth Starr was even introduced by neocon troops to 'investigate ' this heinous crime ( a blowjob like tenthousands occur at this very moment ).That my friends was all that mattered in american politics for too much people .
When such trifles are becoming the issue of heated debates and paralyse a country something is teribly wrong,agreed ?
Why was never such energy put into more relevant issues ?After reading the sorry state of healthcare and the tenthousands people maimed or having their lives destroyed by it one question remains :how come all these fine gentlemen and mininsters find the private matters of a president more important ?Again,makes one wonder about the existence of democracy,doesn't it ?
in 18 months we will have voted in another ass-hole
and it then starts all over again
How do you think Clinton got the tag of 'Slick Willie'? From his honesty and integrity ? He made America a standing joke around the world. His attack on ANY administration after his own is the definition of hypocrisy. If Hillary thinks she can get elected by polarizing this country then she is doing everything right. Personally, I hope she gets the nomination. That makes 2008 a sure thing for the GOP.
Since when did two wrongs make a right? Didn't Barbara teach her boys anything?
...just admonished Bush for not obeying the law.
Libby and Clinton should make a movie. It could be called 'liar, Liar.'
Ken Starr was appointed by Janet 'Buck' Reno. Suck on that a while and, by all means, get back with us!
Our democracy is strong. These posts are living proof. Both parties, regardless of the drivel, have good intentions and that drives our process. The half empty glass crowd can bay all they want.
America has a vibrant, colorful political process. The people who serve, are performing the highest duty this nation offers. This body freed us from our colonial oppressors, abolished that oppressors slave trade, won two world wars, built the Panama Canal, went to the Moon, provided equal rights other nations STILL don't have, rescued millions from death, slavery and destruction, and provides security and prosperity for our allies EVERY day. Our soldiers, the most patriotic in the world, VOLUTEER repeatedly, to serve in a conflict that has an uncertain outcome. There isn't a better deal on the planet. Liberals AND Conservatives built all of this.
Boy, these posts really come out when the Clintons get slimed, eh SP? Some of these are just hilarious.
Tonny, crying for the republic, like a little girl, as if he was really from Belguim. They just let these guys off the hook for everything.
re: your comment ... 'They just let these guys off the hook for everything.'
Please tell us how you support not letting Bush off the hook ....
The important thing to remember about the Clintons is that Hillary won't be elected, Bill will be reelected. Just look at the Campaign already. She is relying on him and it's not even the primary season yet. Even her most recent appearence was panned in the liberal press.
Given the party you are dealing with, if they smell loser, they will run away faster from her faster than you can say 'Whitewater'.
Someone had also better notice that Obama seems to be able to still raise money. This is an indicator that all is not determined for Hillary, like her machine would like. All he needs is a few wins in the primaries.
Unfortunately, it will be another republican administration. The one election when it should be a sure thing. The democrats will be running two unelectable candidates.
Look at American politics:
In 1968 we got Nixon!
Then he resigned in disgrace and we got an ol peanut fahmah!
Then, we threw him out and got Reagan!
Still think the dems can't win??? The 8 ,or so, million who determine an election would disagree.
Dick Morris thinks Barack the magic negro and Hillary are going to join up. That would change everything.
Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich was interesting, to say the least.
Bear in mind that Rich was charged with manipulating oil costing between domestic and foreign sources. His shell game was to call domestic foreign and get a better spread. Needless to say, he was caught, and promptly ran to Switzerland.
Reagan, correctly, saw this market management as folly and deregulated crude oil production. This was no longer a crime, but the govt still went after him.
Clinton comes along, and Louis Libby (remember him!?), seeing justice for sale by everyone in Clinton's employ i.e. Berger, etc., seizes the opportunity. Predictably, they roll for $1 million to the DNC, and Rich is out. No Dept. of Justice review or anything.
This is the ironclad measure of the Clintons. It was predatory, it was for money, it was for all the wrong reasons. Does it haunt Hillary. Yes. That is because it should.
Is Libby a hell of a lawyer or what? Guess who was holding Rich hostage?
Fitzgerald. Remember him?
Look you stupid repubs you are all either not paying attention or have your head in the sand. Bush is the worst president in history. Sure Clinton committed adultry and lied about it. Who wouldn't lie about it, you are all hipocrits. Like you wouldn't lie about something like that. It was none of the peoples buisness anyway, how many other presidents have cheated on their wives? Who knows? Who cares? It's none of your damn buisness. This president, who by the way didn't even get elected in the first place, lied about WMD's and lied about a Saddam connection to 9/11, got us into a war that is unneccessary and a total money grab for him and his cronies in his administration. Look who he puts in his cabnit, people with no qualifications and who do a horrible job, 'heck of a job Brownie'. Republicans suck and are egotistical, idiots who don't care about thier fellow man and have greedy self intrest.
Yes we are present and accounted for 'dumbass'
--thats all we ever hear when a liberal is taken out to be whipped
---the same old didn't win the election--The Supreme court of the US said he did--dumbass
As for the qualifications--look at Janet BullDike Reno--the Waco killer
Or Donna Esther Shalala --health and human services--who had been a professor of politics---Real qualified for the job in healthcare
Madeleine Albright--who had really done nothing but teach college-was made Secretary Of State--out of the blue and allowed the worst case of genocide in history to happen--Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass extermination of hundreds of thousands of ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutu sympathizers in Rwanda and was the largest atrocity during the Rwandan Civil War. This genocide was mostly carried out by two extremist Hutu militia groups, the Interahamwe and the Impuzamugambi, during about 100 days from April 6 through mid-July 1994. At least 500,000 Tutsis and thousands of moderate Hutus died in the genocide.[1] Other estimates put the death toll between 800,000 and 1,000,000.[2][3]
Clinton went through Cabinet Secretaries like bubblegum , because of their lack of qualifications--3 in Tresury
3 in Defence
4 in Commerce
3 in energy
Need I go on??????
You really need to do some research before letting loose with the rocks--You Assclown
The idea that Clinton can lie to a judge because it was sex, is perfectly acceptable to the Garden Variety Leibnazi.
The Libnazis never bother to address:
FBI records scandal,i.e. Vince Foster.
Sandy Berg(Lars Chinese and Russian campaign fund money.
Sandy Burglars pimping influence to AMOCO, while holding stock.
Whitewater.
Hillary's Commodity trades.
This is because they can't defend those. Then again, they seem perfectly willing to continence lying to a federal judge, when it is their guy and a crime they feel is ok. Consider applying this logic as a libnazi lawmaker. No wonder nothing gets through Congress under the democrats.
Is Bush the worst President in History? Only if you never lived under Carter. Besides, take a look at your economy: Huge job creation, Huge tax revenue, Lower taxes...
Wait until this is gone...
As for throwing rocks...sticks and stones...
SP4---as usual using false information to try and prove your point. You are a great representative for all the neo-cons on this board and the current administration---you all are a bunch of liars!
The only defense you have for Bush is to mention Clinton (geez, you just on and on about him ... have you forgotten he ain't the prez no more? hasn't been for a very long time.)
Well, since I don't think Clinton was justified ... and I live in the present timeframe (as opposed to you constantly going on about the past) ... How are you gonna justify Bush's wrong doings TODAY? (without mentioning someone who did wrong in the past)
I am surprised that no one has assassinated president Bush. This president has set this country back 15 years. The only thing Bush is interested in, is oil. He backs the Saudis because of oil, he attacked Iraq for oil, he is thinking about attacking Iran for oil and he hates Hugo Chavez for supplying cheaper oil to low income families in the US. Bush should be impeached and hanged for causing the deaths of 3,000 plus soldiers. Iraq didn't threaten the security of the US. Bush just wanted a reason to steal their oil.
re: your comment ... 'This president has set this country back 15 years.'
I'd say Bush has set us back more than 230 years .
He's abandoned Habeas Corpus rights ... he's violated laws requiring warrants ... he's violated Right to Due Process etc ... the list of Constitutional violations goes on and on.
And he does all of this while saying 'He's defending the USA.'
Bull! ... The truth is he's abandoned the very things that make the USA what it is ... or I should say, was.
Bush has not broken any laws.
There are no wrongdoings. If there were, he'd be impeached, like the last president, who actually DID break the law, not some mushroom high libnazi fantasy, like you wish for.
Everything in my previous post was TRUE.
Clintons did ALL those things. They are on the record. There is no debate as to their actuality.
Oil is a good thing for the President to think about, since you and I require it. What kind of car do you drive?
Bush freed 50 million people. 230 years? Another libnazi mescal fantasy.
SP4, I would think that in order to be true they would have had to be convicted of these 'crimes'. How many convictions do you have on this 'wish list'? As usual, SP4 spreading lies to support his lying neo-con administration!
...are stubborn things' - George H.W.Bush
FBI records scandal - Congresional testimony - fact. The little cupcake, on national TV stated, when asked by the Congressman as to who ordered up the 800 files on Clintons enemies 'Vince Foster'. Fact? Who asked Vince to get them?
Whitewater - Smack, are you daft???
Sandy Berg(L)ar. - As written in Robert Bear's 'See no Evil' Fact? If not, Sandy could sue him and win. You seen any suits yet Smack???
By the way, O.J. was never convicted. Another court decided it was true. Which court defines your truths Smack?
SP4, again any convictions? I know your side does not need facts to exist, your whole existance is predicated on lies, you lie-lie-lie and then you hope it becomes fact.
When you can show me a conviction by a Judge or jury then you have something constructive to say.
You are trying to make me believe you only accept facts born from courts.
What a child.
Convictions come from facts not supported by evidence, only witnessed testimony, just like, Libby.
Chew on that and, by all means, get back to us Smackie.
SP4's right, Smack. Your rants are just bomb throwing. Those references of Sp's are real, and the testimony IS real. Whitwater WAS real. Baer really wrote that, and while it may be a lie, it's on the record, for everyone to scrutinize. Let's see some of your supersharp facts Smack. Go ahead and impress us.
looks to me that the way you guys fight if you guys where face to face you would kill each other.see the world is nuts and things have no way to go but down...
...debate is healthy. It has served this nation well. If you're the half empty glass, so be it, but the rest of us re forcing improvement.
'I know your side does not need facts to exist, your whole existance is predicated on lies, you lie-lie-lie and then you hope it becomes fact.'
I can not believe you have the audacity to accuse anyone else of lying here when YOU have been shown to be the liar yourself.
Good god, you are too stupid to be ashamed of yourself you dirty little liar.
It is a sad day when people defend the yellow belly coward, and his administration of criminals, by trying to to compare two way different pardons. Yes Clinton pardon criminals, if that makes you feel better, but none of the criminals were protecting the Clinton administration. But poor Libby was set up to take the fall for the current administration, who seemed to feel they have a lot to worry about if Libby talks. I do not care if you are right, or left, you should be very concerned about why Bush pardon Libby? By the way, this bit about Clinton lying under oath, give me a break, he was asked if he ever had sex with Monica? He answered with no, and it would not had matter if he answered yes either, because the question was illegal to ask in the first place. Where does it say in the law, that 2 consenting adults, have to answer those type of questions, except divorce court, or unless someone gets knocked up. What did sex have to do with white water, NOTHING, then why was the question allowed to be asked? If anything Bill is guilty of is cheating on his wife, and that is between him and his wife, and it has nothing to do with running the country. When you really think about it, it is none of our business what people do in their private life, but that changes when they do start affecting others, and that is a big difference between Bush and Clinton administration, and this is not about Bush having sex, it is much more serious...
All of this mindless, useless, inconsequential partisan bickering that falls into about the same low category as the Paris Hilton crap. It ought to be moved over to the entertainment section because it's a non-story that has nothing to do with real news.
Understand? Nothing of importance is addressed by this bullshit.
You are wrong noharness ,I guess you know that .This debate is about politics ,not about Paris Hilton like news .As a matter of fact it is very interesting as it once more demonstrates the tactics used by neocons and republicans to conduct a debate .It shows the way politics are debated in the USA;by smear campaigns,mudslinging and other vile tactics .I guess it remains a very effective tactic when you are afraid to discuss content .
Agaib what else can you use when you are siding with somebody illegaly invading another country after knowing the evidence you gave to justify so was all forged by your own cronies,and you knew about it .Rather than admitting facts you will try to wiggle out by draaging your opponent in the bathtub .Not abnormal,I'd say .
I just read Rupert Murdoch is about to take over the Wall Street Journal,another fine gentleman appreciated by SP4 ,who greatly helped Bush spread his lies regarding Iraq .Where will you read what really goes on in the world ?Is there any free press left in the USA ?My guess only the internet escapes from the conservative strangling grip .But they will eventually find a way to control that medium too,soon.
You are wrong noharness ,I guess you know that .This debate is about politics ,not about Paris Hilton like news .As a matter of fact it is very interesting as it once more demonstrates the tactics used by neocons and republicans to conduct a debate .It shows the way politics are debated in the USA;by smear campaigns,mudslinging and other vile tactics .I guess it remains a very effective tactic when you are afraid to discuss content .
Agaib what else can you use when you are siding with somebody illegaly invading another country after knowing the evidence you gave to justify so was all forged by your own cronies,and you knew about it .Rather than admitting facts you will try to wiggle out by draaging your opponent in the bathtub .Not abnormal,I'd say .
I just read Rupert Murdoch is about to take over the Wall Street Journal,another fine gentleman appreciated by SP4 ,who greatly helped Bush spread his lies regarding Iraq .Where will you read what really goes on in the world ?Is there any free press left in the USA ?My guess only the internet escapes from the conservative strangling grip .But they will eventually find a way to control that medium too,soon.
'This president, who by the way didn't even get elected in the first place,'
Yeah that's the bottom line right there.
One of the true beauties in the world is how so many people snapped after losing the 2000 election.
RE:'You are wrong noharness ,I guess you know that .'
Actually, Tonny, I KNOW I am right. Once again, you are demonstrating your ignorance of how politics works in the US.
RE:'This debate is about politics ,not about Paris Hilton like news.'
Okay, I'll give you a half-point for this one. It's Paris Hilton like politics.
RE:'As a matter of fact it is very interesting as it once more demonstrates the tactics used by neocons and republicans to conduct a debate.'
Oh, give me a break. It's how politics to often done by BOTH sides, if not ALL sides, including the Libertarians, Socialists, Communists and even the Rational Anarchists. There isn't anything interesting about it. It is a COMPLETE waste of time, like watching a goddamned soap opera.
RE:'It shows the way politics are debated in the USA;by smear campaigns,mudslinging and other vile tactics. I guess it remains a very effective tactic when you are afraid to discuss content.'
Wait a minute. I'll discuss content with you whenever you are ready and I know that you KNOW that I will. The ad hominem is YOUR favorite tactic.
RE:'Agaib what else can you use when you are siding with somebody illegaly invading another country after knowing the evidence you gave to justify so was all forged by your own cronies,and you knew about it .'
Here you are assuming facts not in evidence. I have two excellent sources that show these claims to be both bogus and politically motivated.
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-823814647184745554&q=%22al+gore%22+ iraq&total=141&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6916812079755110706&hl=en
I'll bet you never listened to Doctor Zawahiri, did you, Tonny? I think it is well past time that you did.
RE:'Rather than admitting facts you will try to wiggle out by draaging your opponent in the bathtub .'
Huh? Why would I drag Hillary into the bathtub?
RE:'Not abnormal,I'd say .'
Yeah, well, you say lots of stuff.
RE:'I just read Rupert Murdoch is about to take over the Wall Street Journal,another fine gentleman appreciated by SP4 ,who greatly helped Bush spread his lies regarding Iraq .'
Rupert Murdoch is in the business of helping exactly one person--Rupert Murdoch. Anyone who spends a few minutes watching Fox News understands that instantly.
RE:'Where will you read what really goes on in the world ?Is there any free press left in the USA ?My guess only the internet escapes from the conservative strangling grip .But they will eventually find a way to control that medium too,soon.'
Both 'conservative' and 'liberal' are relative terms, Tonny. They are so relative any more that both terms are nearly meaningless unless some benchmark is given for the reader to gauge the biases. I struggle mightily to find what I can and I surf into the oddest corners of the internet on a daily basis. I will agree with you that biases are hard to weed out, particularly individual biases. This job is even more difficult when you start trying to analyze what you find on the internet.
In truth, this is a situation where the full spectrum of the news media should be heaping scorn on both sets of politicians and pointing out that it is a trumped up tempest in a teapot. Think about it. What does it take to get a Presidential pardon? There are only two ways to acquire one. The least common one is when there is huge outpouring of public sympathy for the accused. The more common, and still damnably difficult to acquire is for the accused to have enough political pull to suck a golf ball up a half-inch water hose.
Anyone with any sense knows and understands this, but our less-than-objective news media plays it up to suit their own interests. Rather than labeling this nonsense for what it is, they play it up for something of monumental importance when it is nothing more than a lot of political drumbeating by both sides. This is a situation in which both political parties should be held up for shame and ridicule, but the news media deals in partial truths so that they can sell more ad space.
The Libnaizi rambling, kitchen sinking everything from Bush, to Murdoch demonstrates the weakness of the left:
They are afraid of their own shadow. They hate everything except their own narrow view. They are the bigots of the 21st century, attacking everything from religion to the weather.
'we have everything to fear including fear itself'.
They are so frightened, they shiver constantly. Every election will end the world if they do not gain power. They have the majority in Congress but are cowed by a president with a 29% approval rating. He says 'Boo' and they crap their pants.
And thay want to lead. Please, get started soon, would you?
Faced with, specific, meaningful facts for discourse, the libnaiz launches into a rambling diatribe of anti-neocon (they've never met one) drivel. it rambles on in a koolaid orgy, sating their lust for the smoking gun of a Nixonesque ending to their fantasies. Flagellating themselves in their mom's basemants, with their tinfoil hats, they delude themselves into hoping for a leader, melting at the thought of Hillary, the best they've been able to produce, taking the reigns of power. How pathetic is that?
The article was about Clintons pardons. They were terrible, for money (Rich) and they happened. He deserves every bit of criticism for them. Libby saw Clintons dishonestly and bought Rich his pardon. He read Clinton(s) correctly. He got what he KNEW he could get. After all, if there was one thing Libby knew, it was how predictable slick willy was, and, face it, slick Willy delivered.
And who happens to be ranked as probably the least intelligent of our Presidents - a grinning puppet who is an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth - a President who soon will have NO approval rating? I agree that if Hillary or Obama wins the nomination, a Republican will again be President
This country will never allow a woman or black to hold the office regardless of what so many say, thanks to the 'good old boy' mentality of the U.S.
When the conservatives have to defend the indefensible, they always defer the 'But Clinton!' line - as if two wrongs make a right in the first place. The notion that convervatives aren't moral relativists is obviously completely false.
I know that you guys defending Bush on this board belong to the lunatic fringe - with Bush's dismal 26% approval rating and all (according to Newsweek). In contrast, Bill Clinton had a 65% approval rating when he left office - one of the highest in history.
The difference between the Bush pardon and the Clinton pardon is that Bush pardoned Libby to cover up the crimes of his own administration.
Bush has been protected by the Republican congress for the last 6 years. Now that the Dems have congress, congress is finally starting to peform it's duty of congressional oversight. Bush can pardon, can try to extend executive priviledge to everyone in his administration, Cheny can claim that his office is not part of the executive branch. These guys are some of the biggest crooks in history and will face justice in time.
Oversight is good. You want to have hearings on Libby? Go ahead, right next to the hearings on Sandy Berg(l)ar.
Bush, gets up in the morning knowing, full well, that you and the rest of the libnazis are such cowards that he still rules with a 29% approval rating. Go check Congresses rating, and compare. This is really not such a bad thing, because it forces them to compromise. Having said that, go check and see who are the one's still getting results: The Republicans.
As for his supposed lack of intelligence, consider the brain trust he's beat into office. Gore, Kerry and Richards, sit dumbfounded in their living rooms, wondering how it happened.
I think Hillary was the one who pushed Bill to pardon all those drug dealers, including her own relatives. Bill was just a pawn of Hillary and has been from the start
Get real!!
I wonder how long it will be before Bill gets caught with another woman?
..hasn't it? 15 years ago Hillary's private machine would be able to gag a liberal press. To some degree, the old networks and libnaiz papers do exactly that.
Now, however, you are going to see artilces like this one. Not very pretty, especially if you're dirty from your toes up.
This kind of article would have never been able to be published in any media with any high circulation. Now, with this technology, we can splash it all over the world. Plus, there's always Fox...
Partly an enjoyable debate .At leastn oharness has logical arguments,even if I disagree .But what to say about the phenomen SP4 ?What kind of intelligent being is so elaborate in working against his own interests .He is exactly what I had in mind when stating that neocons favorite tacts are insults and smear .Could not find anything explaing what a libnazi is ,sorry,you will have to produce some explanation for this figment of your brain ,SP4;unless somebody else knows and is willing to provide for a decent explanation .Anybody ?
...what is a Neocon supposed to be? We have Conservatives, but I never saw the term Neocon until Reagan was elected. Reagan was a Conservative. Neocon? Never met one! It's a press construct. It's a stereotype,liberal bigotry.
You see Libnazis are bigots. Any point of view not theirs is the result of the bad people. These could be anyone, and usually is, but they need an enemy. The three reason rule applies:
1) stupid (Bush)
2) crazy (Perot)
3) Radical (Bush, after 2004 election and we saw Kerry)
If you are an infidel to the church-of-the-divine-liberal, this is your fate. Perot couldn't be called stupid, because it got hard to explain his 3 billion dollars he made on his own. Bush, however, could be called stupid because of his halting speech. Imagine if Moses lived now...
No, Libnazis are folks like you Tonny. Pseudointellectuals masquerading as smarter than the poor infidels, your insights sharper, your intelligence keener, until someone skewers your arguments (like me) and then you retreat behind the cloak of your insults. You are like the adult, wearing the childs Halloween costume pretending to be a superhero. One good belt and you start crying.
Libnazis are like you, Tonny. Go look in the mirror.
Zig Heil
SP4, you really need to get a life. The one you are used to is slowly fading away---goodby you neo-con life hater. Maybe the rapture will save you?
Except to a handful of Republicans who can't think of anything else to say.
Would apply to the ultra-moronic SP4
....makes me wrong.
When you spew mindless dribble like 'You see Libnazis are bigots' ... you are flat out wrong.
If I listed all of the incorrect statements and examples you've posted on this forum, the list would be pages upon pages long.
You inability to comprehend that you're most often completely wrong, doesn't change the fact that you are.
I am very sorry SP4 but I am afraid your case is a bit too complicated for me at this moment .I will have to take a more psychological approach in understanding you .Your logics are too rudymentary .From your blind defense of every person that made a fortune in life ,be it Rupert Murdoch,Ross Perrot and a few others you seem to derive the notion that if you are rich you must be holding a particular truth .You used people's wealth a few times as the final argument to gain some points in a discussion .Yet I take it you have little fortune yourself,probably not even a job,not much social life either ?If I were to use the same logics on you that you seem to adopt on others,what exactly would you look like then ?
You are a bigot Tonny, a liberal bigot, but a bigot nonetheless. Bigotry itself is not stupidity, but the result is the same. You know nothing about me, but draw wide conclusions from zero facts, whether it be polticians, climate change, or any other subject. Your ramblings are the calling card of the libnazi bigot, cocksure he is right, passing judgement on those he's never met. (I've actually met Perot, have you? And Robert Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, etc.) It's an old story, with a predictable ending.
Tonny You are the example of the four levels of enlightenment:
1) you know nothing and you don't know you know nothing
2) you know nothing but know you know nothing
3) you know something but don't know you know something
4) you know something and you know you know something
Now myself, I could be at any one of these at any time but Tonny you are, perpetually, at number 1.
Try explaining why even one of my statements is wrong, instead of bomb throwing. Since you included none, my conclusion is you have no retort.
Run, Hide
SP4
SP4---again where are the convictions??? There are none!
Now I'm supposed to produce convictions? Anything else???
ALright, Here they are:
Government needs to be smaller.
Government needs get out of our lives, as much as possible
Privatize government wherever possible to achieve increased tax value
Reduce government interference in private enterprise.
Reduce trade barriers for increased trade
Defend, vigorasly, the USA
How's that for a start. I'm not even concerned about which party does it, as long as one does.
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