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US seeks to contain fallout with Turkey
Oct 12, 2007, 2:39 GMT
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Older Talkback
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Just the democratic congress trying a back door way to lose us the war, They couldn't undercut our troops enough, now they are trying to lose us the bases we operate out of.
Concerning the genocide against the armenian people ,how can that possibly be able to upset the contemporary turkish people ?They were not blamed by anybody .
Neocons have the guts to claim it is a bad idea to draw attention to the armenian genocide whilst at the same time critizicing Achmedinedjad for denying the holocaust .What kind of selective indignation is this ?
Is there no limit to the cynicism of the neocons ?
'Concerning the genocide against the armenian[sic] people ,how can that possibly be able to upset the contemporary turkish[sic] people'
Gee idiot, display your ignorance more.
'Neocons have the guts to claim it is a bad idea to draw attention to the armenian[sic] genocide'
Neocons? Your all purpose bogey man... Look, moron, the USA has already condemned the Armenian Genocide. Congress is doing it again now in order to undercut Turkeys support of our mission in Iraq.
'whilst at the same time critizicing[sic] Achmedinedjad for denying the holocaust'
We have never denied that the Armenian genocide took place, in fact the USA recognized it as such while Europe was ignoring it to be 'diplomatic'.
'What kind of selective indignation is this ?'
You are just so completely ignorant it is pathetic.
The above commentator might be open to less ridicule if he/she actually presented some sound arguments. Resorting to personal insults and name calling is at the level of the school playground and just demonstrates the immaturity of the writer
Right out of the old libnazi book!
Complain about people who have been dead for 7 decades instead of dealing with those dying during your own term of office.
(Move 1) do this while a republican is in office, then magically come into office and smooth it over AFTER they are out! This is so sick I even like it! These people have been studying Bush! It shows!
(Move 2)Show up and complain about foreign relations offering to fix them, after you f--ked them up. The only thing missing here is Gore.
How about addressing some of the current human righrs issues
Mynammar
Iraq
Darfur
Zimbabwe
It's all part of the libnazi doctrine of misdirection:
Clinton goes to a 300 year old slave colony, walks around looking solomn, making solumn comments and acting reverent, while, in reality there is REAL slavery in his own century in the Sudan, Sierra Leonne, chattel slavery in numerous Islamic nations, etc. Did he lift a finger to deal with that?
No. THAT takes a real statesman.
I'm not fooled, just you, Tonny.
@Phil
'The above commentator might be open to less ridicule if he/she actually presented some sound arguments.'
I notice you didn't try to rebut the arguments... beeatch.
'Resorting to personal insults and name calling is at the level of the school playground and just demonstrates the immaturity of the writer'
Fine, I am immature, So F-U too Phil, and thanks for absolutely no articulate contribution to the topic at hand you sniveling, half-witted, lead paint chip eating vinegar and water rinse.
I am immune to insults ;no problem .AGain what credibility is to be given to a predident that claims that the Armenian genocide is subject for histoians,not for politicians ,carefully avoiding the word genocide even,try to find that word in his statements .At the same time his croneys lash out at Iran for denying the holocaust .Two sets of standards ,typical neocon stuff .I already knew that your president is somehow different from the rest of the american population,no need for some simpletons to have me say what I did not say .One of the foremost spreaders of the genocide was an american consul .He did his best to mobilize the world's opinion to save the Armenians from the Ottoman slaughter.To no avail .Bush is not America,as I distinctly remember A lGore had the popular vote but unfortunately your president is nor elected by the people .Too bad.I suggest that anybody taking interest in the Middle East get a copy of the books written by Robert Fisk .Excellent reading stock on the topic .
This site is bringing out the garbage talkers big time - real intelligent people!! The past is the past - let it stay there - aren't there more important things to give attention to than some declaration that won't make a hell of a lot of difference other than cause more grief for the U.S. - something they don't need!
Again, you mouth breathing euro-parasite: It has already been declared a genocide by the US government. The democrat controlled congress are just bringing it up again to lose us access to our bases in Turkey to make it even HARDER then they already have for our troops to complete the mission that THEY sent them on.
'At the same time his croneys lash out at Iran for denying the holocaust'
Again, you moron shiite, in your case spelled with one less i and one less e...THE USA HAS ALREADY DECLARED THIS TO BE AN ACT OF GENOCIDE. We are not 'denying' it was as that iranian chimp is as with the previous European genocide. (The one in Germany, not the one in Kosovo that you pusses just ignored.)
'One of the foremost spreaders of the genocide was an american consul .He did his best to mobilize the world's opinion to save the Armenians from the Ottoman slaughter'
Your English is just plain pathetic. Seriously, once, after mangling a phrase I was told not to even bother with french in paris, you should follow the same advice regarding a language that you clearly have no affinity for.
' .Too bad.I suggest that anybody taking interest in the Middle East get a copy of the books written by Robert Fisk'
Propaganda for leftist, antisemitic idiots... You are a parody of one at this point.
I still would like the same standards set for the armenian genocide and the holocaust .Both an undeniable reality .You president has never recognized the armenian genocide .He states the whole question is relevant only for historians . Read his statements well,I never said the american people did not recognize the genocide.You president does however,too busy waging an illegal war and grooming terrorism where it never existed before .That is the only result of his years in the White House .Ooops I forgot;he leaves you all with trillions of dollars to pay off.What a fine result.
'I still would like the same standards set for the armenian genocide and the holocaust'
No, what you would like is to see the USA lose Iraq to islamist terrorists, because you are an idiot.
'too busy waging an illegal war'
Illegal according to whom?
'Ooops I forgot;he leaves you all with trillions of dollars to pay off.What a fine result.'
So did the Marshall plan... We are used to paying the bills of obnoxious parasites.
now that america is responsible for the deaths of nearly one million Iraquis
and the displacement of over 3 million when will they call that a genocide.
perhaps because the Israelis are behind a lot of this war it cant be called genocide because those poor people can only point out the genocide they faced before 90% of them were born. The russians lost 19 million people to hitler but they werent given any free countries and full authority by the bully general to take whatever neighbouring countries they wished.
'now[sic] that america[sic] is responsible for the deaths of nearly one million Iraquis[sic]'
If you are going to make up numbers why don't you go for the gusto-
Why not claim that America has killed a googolplex of Iraqis... Indeed, if you are going to toss any and all allegiance to the truth out the window why not just claim that Dick Cheney and his cadre of 'neo-cons' set up death camps in Iraq to get rid of a googolplex of Iraqis? Oh you will still be obviously full of jealousy borne vitriol and excrement, but at least you will have used a little imagination, you dull witted paddy half-monkey.
'perhaps because the Israelis are behind a lot of this war it cant be called genocide '
Aaaah yes, the usual suspects. Tell us oh conspiricist, how are the Israelis responsible for you being a bed-wetter?
'The russians[sic] lost 19 million people to hitler[sic] but they werent[sic] given any free countries and full authority by the bully general to take whatever neighbouring countries they wished.'
Again with the numbers... And 'Free countries'? What about Belarus Ukraine, Romania, Moldova, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary,
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, the Republic of Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, East Germany...? Remember that you idiot?
The Turkish government seems to be a bit touch about this whole event.
It happened around WWI and was committed by the Ottoman Empire, not the current Turkish government.
So what's the point of this resolution?
Besides being on a condemning streak with Moveon.org and Rush, all I can think of is what other posters have said. It is an attempt to piss off our biggest staging area and supply route without the political fallout from directly underfunding the troops.
Personally I've never been a big fan of the whole Iraq mess. It doesn't take more than basic history or cultural knowlege to know that neither an occupation nor a capitalistic democracy will have much hope in that area of the world, but that's beside the point.
If the Democrats want to end this thing they should do it directly, rather than through an undercutting subterfuge in the name of 'moral highground' .
I insist that Bush is too much of an opportunist to recognize the armenian holocaust ,he and his noeocn cronies are ad oçdds with the rest of the amricans and history .Ther fine excuse he delivers is that this matter is for historians ,not politicians .What a gross insult to the victims that is .You r president is an opportunist who will rewrite history if it suirts himnrewrite the Geneva Conventions for the same reasons and even rewrite contemporary political events according his neocon dream of world supremacy and unilateralism .Since when are the Iraqsi population labeled as either islamist terrorists or jihadis ?Since Bush and the neocons failed to impose the Pax Americana in Iraq .Has it still not dawned on the neocons that the Iraqi's simply want you out ?Is that too much asking ?TEll me which arguments give you the right to be there ?WMD?Nuclear bombs ?Al Quaida ?All lies .You can blame FOX for spreading the paranoia that seems to grip you .Get a life.
Back to the subject at hand.
The liberal mindset is guilt assuagement. Guilt assuagement means addressing grievence, whether it's Duke Lacrosse players who get victimized or a whole nations relations with another foreign country.
This is so much easier than addressing the issues in Zimbabwe, or Mynammar, or Vietnam where people living NOW face what the Armenians faced. After all, if a liberal president needs to, they can always go to a slave colony and walk around looking somber. So much eaiser than addressing slavery in the present in the Sudan or Sierra Leonne.
It's also a terrific politcal play, i.e. make up a problem, stick it to Bush, and us too, then show up to fix it in 2008.Good old fashioned politics, democrat style. I don't suppose anyone here knows how the dem front runner voted on this war, eh?
Just like the Iraq war, the democrats compromise the american people, once again, in order to gain power.
everyone's opinion isn't political - bull!
Before all you loyal and long suffering Americans wave your little flags and continue dying in your 1000`s for that precious oil in Iraq and elsewhere, just consider this ; -
The total eligible number of voters in the US is 218 M.
Draft dodger Bush got 62,040,610 votes in 2004 and Kerry got 59,028,111, so diddy Bush got in by 3,012,499 votes, which gave him dictatorial powers over a nation of over 301 M !
Bush got 51% of the votes cast and Kerry ~ 49%.
Considering that only 56% eligible voters turned out, that means 44% never voted for either of these candidates ; or 96 M people abstained.
Only 122 M actually voted.
So although your modern-day Charlie Chaplin Bush got in, he only did it by a paltry 3M votes out of a population vote total of 218M !
If we consider it properly Bush only got 28% of the available votes and Kerry 27%.
SO, my American friends, YOUR country is ruled by a man and party who only has 28% of the American public support. WHAT a democracy ! A great nation of over 301M people committed to the whims and fancies of a party led by a little turd ball who only has a 28% backing of the American people and only 3M votes above his electoral opponent.
This is more like a banana republic than what we expect from the greatest nation on Earth.
SLEEP WELL YOU LUCKY PEOPLE and give your devoted loyalty to the White House Mouse that Roars.
So voter turnout is the only thing that makes a democracy? Humm, Not voting is also a choice. As for 28% of the total vote, well, what was your 'leader' elected on in your parliament? (Considering that you also don't have 100% voter turn out.) Ill bet the percentage is smaller. Regardless, since your country doesn't matter neither does the outcome.
Funny, I don't recall reading about any resolutions passed in the House about the Soviet engineered famine in the Ukraine during WWII.
Nor do I recall reading about any resolutions passed in the House about the Armenian Genocide when Turks were fighting alongside our boys in Korea.
Was there a House resolution condemning the Rwandan genocide? If so, I must have missed it at the time. Maybe there will be one when Rwanda is a crucial supply base for our troops in Iraq.
The Ottoman Empire slaughtered over a million Armenians, yes, we know. But the Ottoman Empire moulders on the ash heap of history.
While it's true that Turkey denied us access to a northern front in the initial invasion, and allowed the Sunni terrorists er insurgents to mount a defense, that's been more than balanced by the success of the surge. Those who were fighting us then are fighting Al Qaeda now.
The Democratics in the House are on the verge of doing something Saddam could only have dreamed of. Cutting off a vital supply line to the troops.
An army with it's supply line cut off is doomed to disaster.
Go ahead, Democratics, show us how much you support the troops by passing this meaningless resolution against a regime that no longer exists. Deny them the vital necessities they need to assure victory.
Because if this passes, I surely won't dare to question your patriotism.
We are a republic, not a pure democracy. I don't care who votes, because my vote means more, if fewer people vote.
From what I have seen in these comments, everybody in America seems to think that SP4 is a proverbial prat and the other cabbage brain, who cares.. Now I can understand their views.
The only difference between an absolute dictator and the Western so-called democracies is that although 70% + of the people do not vote for the ruling party, so we have a minority determining the fate of the majority, we can at least kick the bastards out every 5 years and start again.
Perhaps one day we will see a system whereby the majority have their say, but with the voting procedures rigged like they are, it will be a very long time coming.
'Perhaps one day we will see a system whereby the majority have their say, but with the voting procedures rigged like they are, it will be a very long time coming.'
And what country are you writing this from? I happen to be quite happy with representative republican democracy. If you are not, you should try the alternative. Reminds me of a quote:
'Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.' -Winston Churchill
I agree entirely with the practicality of democracy you have described, because democracy is defined according to individual opinion. For instance try telling that stinking ape Knobhead Mugabe that Zimbabwe is not a democracy ! But don`t try it in Zimbabwe.
Say what you like in good old YOO ESS HAY, you seem to do this with the same bravado as a person throwing stones at a lion from the safety of an armored car already.
Of course democracies are rigged, where millions of votes in effect do not count when the eventual winner emerges. This is because of the way we vote in AREAS in accordance with candidates and SEATS.
It is common fact that in EVERY democracy the winning party only gets 30% of the eligible votes. So 70% of the people have to endure the ravings of a leader and Government in a MINORITY privileged position.
Awfully sorry, but the only way that TRUE democracy will ever emerge, is by having Proportional Representation. You vote nationally for a party NOT an individual and Government seats are allocated in proportion to total votes cast. In the case of states, party candidates would be selected by supporters to fill the number of seats allocated to the state by national proportion.
THEN we really are talking of DEMOCRACY.
to avoid this mess their going to have lock bush up and keep him away from this problem. stupid will want a war right away.......
'Say what you like in good old YOO ESS HAY, you seem to do this with the same bravado as a person throwing stones at a lion from the safety of an armored car already.'
I do say whatever I like in the USA. It is my right as long as I can back it with an intelligent argument. And I would never toss rocks at a lion. I am kind to animals, even you. :-D
'Of course democracies are rigged, '
Then they are not 'democracies'. Mine isn't 'rigged' sorry if you can't say the same.
'It is common fact that in EVERY democracy the winning party only gets 30% of the eligible votes. '
Again, not voting is a choice. Some chose to not vote. Choice is very democratic.
'Awfully sorry, but the only way that TRUE democracy will ever emerge, is by having Proportional Representation. '
What a horrible idea. I would rather have a democratic republic, as my founding fathers envisioned. It has worked for 220 years.
That really doesn't make me wrong now, does it?
Americans getting government lessons from abroad is like Michael Jordan being coached by the Albanian national basketball coach.
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