US Features
Wartime rescuer of John McCain dies a forgotten hero
Jun 26, 2008, 10:56 GMT
Republican presidential candidate Arizona Senator John McCain speaks with journalists at a press conference in Riverside, California, USA, 24 June 2008. EPA/ANDREW GOMBERT
Hanoi - Of all the tales of wartime courage peppering John McCain's presidential campaign trail, there is one example of selfless heroism that stands out. Only in this story, the hero is not McCain but a humble Vietnamese peasant.
On October 26, 1967, Mai Van On ran from the safety of a bomb shelter in Hanoi at the height of an air raid and swam out into the lake where Lieutenant Commander McCain was drowning, tangled in his parachute cord after ejecting when his Skyhawk bomber was hit by a missile.
In an extraordinary act of compassion at a time when Vietnamese citizens were being killed by US aerial bombardments, he pulled a barely conscious McCain to the lake surface and, with the help of a neighbour, dragged him towards the shore.
Then, when a furious mob at the water's edge began to beat and stab the captured pilot, On drove them back.
Nearly three decades later, the Vietnamese government confirmed he was indeed the rescuer and, in a 1996 meeting in Hanoi, McCain embraced and thanked On and presented him with a Senate memento.
From that brief encounter to his death at the age of 88 two years ago, On never heard from the senator again, and three years after their meeting, McCain published an autobiography that makes no mention of his apparent debt to On.
It is a snub On took to his death. His widow, Bui Thi Lien, 71, said: 'In his last years, my husband was very sad sometimes. He would say, 'Mr McCain has forgotten me.' Mr McCain would be dead if it weren't for my husband. He would never have returned to his family and he wouldn't be in the presidential race today.'
In his 1999 autobiography, Faith Of My Fathers, which laid the ground for his first, unsuccessful run for president in 2000, McCain wrote a Boy's Own-style narrative of his rescue: 'When I came to, I was being hauled ashore on two bamboo poles,' he wrote.
Things got ugly when he reached dry ground, the book recalls. 'A crowd of several hundred Vietnamese gathered around me as I lay dazed before them, shouting wildly at me, stripping my clothes off, spitting on me, kicking and striking me repeatedly.'
What followed, according to McCain, was five-and-a-half years of torture and brutal beatings as a prisoner of war - an account that has given a steely edge to his candidacy by establishing him as a true American war hero.
But the story is at odds with the version uncovered by Vietnam veteran Chuck Searcy, who lives in Hanoi and is in charge of the Vietnam Veteran Memorial Fund.
'In 1995, Mr On gave me a letter he wanted me to deliver to McCain.' said Searcy. 'It said, 'I am the guy who pulled you out of the lake and I have followed your progress over the years. I wish the best for you and your family and I hope some day you will be president of the United States.'
'No one thought of McCain as a future president at that time. I thought it was endearing. I sent the letter to McCain's office and I got back a sniffy response from some assistant saying, 'Mr McCain isn't interested in these fanciful stories.''
The reason for the response was that, now he was a prominent senator, claiming to have saved McCain had become something of a cottage industry in Hanoi.
Searcy, 63, said: 'There had been a lot of preposterous claims and I was skeptical at first. But I asked the neighbours around the lake if it was true and they said that was exactly how it happened.'
Later the same year, Searcy met McCain at a veterans' reunion in Washington. 'I mentioned the story of Mr On to him,' he said. 'He said 'Do you think this guy is for real?' and I said 'Yes, all the neighbours have confirmed it'. And he said 'Hell, I would like to meet this guy - next time I come over there, I'll set it up'.'
McCain, then closely involved in rebuilding US-Vietnam relations, visited Hanoi in 1996, and a meeting was arranged with Searcy and On.
The get-together was overseen by Vietnamese government officials who, Searcy said, set up a commission of inquiry and confirmed On as the rescuer before allowing the meeting.
Searcy said: 'Mr On was a wiry little guy. He looked as if he had only ever shaved once or twice and he had his old uniform on. He raced up to McCain and kept repeating his name as he embraced him.'
Then, through an interpreter, On recounted the events of that day as McCain listened. 'He launched into a very emotional description,' said Searcy. 'Mr On told him that suddenly they had seen this parachute coming down into their small lake.
'Everybody was afraid because they knew it was an American pilot and they didn't know what to do. He said he just instinctively grabbed this big bamboo log and threw it into the water and jumped in after it.
'One of his neighbors joined him and the two of them swam out to the parachute. Apparently McCain had broken both arms and one leg, and had sunk to the bottom, but they pulled him out of the lake.
'When they got to the bank, a couple of men attacked McCain, breaking his shoulder with a rifle butt and stabbing his leg. Mr On and a nurse who was at the scene both intervened.
'Mr On pushed them back and said: 'Stop. Leave him alone. When he was in the air bombing us, he was the enemy, but now he is on the ground, he is a helpless human being and you are not going to hurt him'. The crowd immediately backed away.
'That day, Mr On saved McCain twice - once from drowning and a second time from maybe being killed by the mob.
'McCain listened to Mr On. then he just nodded, said, 'Thank you very much,' and gave On a little Senate seal.
'It was the kind of thing you buy in the souvenir shop in the Senate basement. But Mr On, to the day he died, treated it as if it were a Congressional Medal of Honour.'
Although McCain appeared to believe the story, it was one he would later seem to ignore in his autobiography and there was no more contact between the two men.
A decade later in 2006 when On died, an email was sent to McCain's office by a family friend requesting a message of condolence for the family. There was no response.
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Older Talkback
page: 1
Named after a brand of oven chip and seems to act like he doesn't care about debts of gratitude. I often wonder about how acts of human compassion can have negative repercussions later.
..is the first casualty of war.
Interesting in that they people writing this do not discuss the possibility that, by bringing all of this into the open, the Vietnamese government might take a dim view of this man's saving McCain and act, in typical fashion, to citizens who aggrivate them. I wonder if this is why McCain, who has reputedly, time after time, done extrordinary acts of kindness, avoided contact with this man, for the man's own sake?
The story also says McCain was unconcious, so he has no recollection of the events, which I find very curious. Then, all the villagers seems just happy to corroborate the story, as is.
This is easily the stupidest story printed by the sycophantic pro Obama press yet. McCain had just ejected from an aircraft, he had 2 broken legs and a broken arm, he almost drowned. He was dragged out of the water bu a group of Vietnamese beatnen unconscious and stabbed.
Here is a photo of McCain being dragged out of the lake:
img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_03/MccainPeasantMOS_468x276.jpg
Which one is this selfless Mai Van On? Looks like there were a bunch of people involved? No? How in the hell was McCain supposed to remember this guy out of the group 40 years later and after going through what he had just gone through?
Chuck Searcy has 'gone native' in a big way. Helping the DNC trash a fellow American with this non story is almost as bad as the DNC going to Hanoi and looking for dirt on McCain from the people who were torturing him as they did during the previous election.
'McCain listened but there was no dramatic response. He just nodded, said, 'Thank you very much,' and gave Mr On a little Senate seal.'
Here is a photo of the 2 of them:
img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_03/MccainMOS_468x610.jpg
McCain went through 5 and a half years of hell on earth at the hands of the Vietnamese, Some of his friends and colleagues had been beaten to death. McCain is incredibly gracious to have made the efforts at normalization of relations between the USA and Vietnam that he has. This stupid propaganda piece of course ignores that completely.
'Named after a brand of oven chip'
Fix your own miserable country. Idiot.
During the Vietnam War, he nearly lost his life in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. Later that year while on a bombing mission over North Vietnam, he was shot down, badly injured, and captured as a prisoner of war by the North Vietnamese. He was held from 1967 to 1973, experiencing episodes of torture and refusing an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer; his war wounds would leave him with some lifelong physical limitations....
John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned, when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a crowd attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the 'Hanoi Hilton'.
Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information. Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care and announce his capture...
McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care. Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.
In mid-1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release. The North Vietnamese wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.
-en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
McCain would undergo years of torture for refusing to cut ahead of his fellow prisoners of war.
John McCain served this country with honor. Apparently the European press thinks that is a non story but the fact that McCain didn't fall over himself for someone who he couldn't have possibly recognized is. Not surprisingly M&C is on board with that unfair narrative.
and the truth is the last thing McCain wants anybody to know. It would end his career.
Absolutely nothing wrong with our country, hillbilly. By the way, is your daddy still having congress with pigs, providing you with more brothers and sisters?
How does anyone ever know the truth about anything? It just boils down to whatever version someone wants to believe.
'Absolutely nothing wrong with our country, hillbilly. '
Which one is that? The worlds wallflower? Where jealousy is confused with patriotism and the pledge of allegiance comes from a paranoid beer commercial? Or the previous superpower who is now completely over-run and anyone with the wherewithal packs up and leaves for the current superpower? Either way, no one on their right mind would want to follow your example.
'How does anyone ever know the truth about anything? It just boils down to whatever version someone wants to believe.'
No. There is such a thing as objective reality. Believing what you want to believe only makes you annoying to the people who have to live in the real world.
while you are blogging each other about nothing in particular let me repeat this :- (M&C)
'selfless heroism that stands out. Only in this story,October 26, 1967, the hero is not McCain but a humble Vietnamese peasant
.......MAI VAN ON .....
'God rest this Good mans Soul and may God smile on him and grant him eternal Peace' .Amen.
(
When there happens to be two sides to something, everyone chooses which to believe!!!! This peasant should be remembered by McCain and should have been given some sort of 'reward' by him years ago!
DNC going to Vietnam to dig up dirt on McCain
not finding any, they concocted this little fairy tale.
The gooks got some poor farmer asshole to pose as the guy who saved him
McCain jerked them all off on a state visit.
Now, the tinfoil hat crowd buys it hook, line and sinker.
...notice that, instead of running stories on Countrywide financial and their Senate discount loan program for Obama nad is buddies, they run this crap.
can anyone show me one reason to be proud of america anymore???
for the life of me i can't think of any.
Ignorance is no crime, but it is a tragedy.
We freed ourselves from our colonial oppressors, the most powerful nation on earth and then made them a close friend. We went to the battlefield to free the slaves. We built the trans-continental Rail Road. We invented the telephone, the airplane, mass production, modern research and development, the crawler tractor, the nuclear submarine, the atom bomb, the Panama canal, the aricraft carrier, broke the sound barrier, hold all the major aviation records, invented the microprocessor, the current Internet, windows and Free Trade. We won two world wars, the Cold War and are curently freeing 50 million people from the scum of humanity.
USA - the fairest justice system in the world. Our neighbors are the safest, best bordered nations on earth. They would have our assistance instantly and we honor their soverignty.
We help secure peace and freedom for the free world. Our trade partners and allies are the most prosperous, and free nations on earth.
We lead the world in environmental science and technology. We advocate for freedom the world over.
Don't have a single reason to be proud of America???? What planet are you from?
And don't ever forget for a second that a lot of very important things done and now being done in science, medicine, etc., were accomplished and are now being accomplished in the U.S. by people of foreign heritage -whether having immigrated years ago or in the last few years. Many from the Middle Eastern countries, Japan, China - you name it, we have all probably been served by a doctor, etc., in that status - not just the 'good old boys' originally from the U.S.!! And who's to say this article isn't the truth?
'This peasant should be remembered by McCain and should have been given some sort of 'reward' by him years ago!'
LOOK AT THE PICTURE YOU IDIOT:
img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_03/MccainPeasantMOS_468x276.jpg
He just ejected from an airplane which is like getting sucked through a straw. He had 3 out of 4 limbs broken, nearly drowned, he was in and out of consciousness, there were dozens of people involved with his 'rescue' which nearly resulted in him being beaten to death, it was over 40 frigging years ago and even according to this disgustingly biased story ' claiming to have saved McCain had become something of a cottage industry in Hanoi'...
So how in the hell is he supposed to remember him let alone reward him?
the telephone is something to be proud of along with a tractor .
what about our freedom thats all but gone .and the country which is bound to collapse beacause of some lame brain dick head from crawford texas,
wake up sp4 ..
what would be great is to wake up in the morning and hear that yellow belly mccain passed away from a heart attack..
This peasant wasn't supposedly one of them, imbecile. This came to light in 1995 - I would call that years ago! Why are you getting so hostile - is McCain your grandpa or are you his?
So if this vietnamese guy is a hero - and i don't doubt it, and in fact this makes mccain less of a hero for all of his sacrifices and suffering, then just where the hell does that leave obama?
...you are the epitome of the libnazi line that America is fundimentally flawed. You have bought into this cheap, tawdry line, have had this crap blown in your ear. The purveyors of this dung have appealed to your cynicism. You took the bait they shoveled and swallowed. You failed to look around.
Are you so weak minded that believe a GW Bush can sink America????? By what calculus do you arrive at such an ignorant conclusion? Do you think this republic is so weak that one, straight forward political animal, with only 8 years in office can sink her?
Do you think, at the end of the day, that this gun issue is make-or-break for America? Does the outcome of one supreme court ruling poisen your perspective?
We have survived a revolutionary war, a civil war, and numerous attacks. We've survived slavery, racial strife, disease, sedition, and almost every kind of threat a nation can have.
We are the preeminent superpower in the world. We are leaders in almost every endeavour. Our nation has the most creative, productive workforce on the planet.
I have a weakness, Mr. Question Mark: I believe in America. The more I learn about her, the more I love it. The more I see of it, the more I believe in the heart and character of it's citizenry.
Consider Iraq: an unpopular war, to be sure. Yet, to a man and woman, it is staffed by all volunteers. Volunteers! No other nation on the planet would do this. It is, undeniably, a fundimentally charitable act in assisting these people,or even going off to simply defend America.
Go pour yourself a drink and ponder your view, Mr. Question Mark. Ponder it carefully. You have a great deal to learn.
'This peasant wasn't supposedly one of them, imbecile.'
And 1) Who knows if that is the truth? 2) How is McCain supposed to know that after going what he went through?
'This came to light in 1995 - I would call that years ago!'
So that makes the interval of time only about 30 years instead of 40 that McCain was supposed to remember this guy who he met while fading in and out of consciousness, getting stabbed and beaten in the middle of the Hanoi...
'Why are you getting so hostile'
Because I am a mean bastard. How fricking long could it take for you to figure out that little knowledge Mc nugget?
' is McCain your grandpa or are you his?'
My father was actually one of his grandfathers pilots. Slew McCain. He was another decent man who cared about his aviators and sailors and who was committed to defending the USA. I think Mac deserves better then he has been getting from the press and this story is just beyond pathetic.
wrong, dogbreath. It is you who suck up to us. We have oil. You have lame duck Bush. Case closed.
This is to show us all why McCain is not a stable man let alone fit for president.
He is too messed up in his brains from being beaten in the skull and he gets nightmares from that time still.
Team leader for the mental ward of ugly people, maybe.
'It is you who suck up to us'
You are our attic.
'We have oil. '
And we have NAFTA... In other words, we have our oil too. :-D
'You have lame duck Bush.'
And you have Harper, who we helped elect.
must be scraping a worm infested thread to have to put up with this drival?
GET A LIFE.
Calm down - a stroke is waiting to happen, old man. A comment is just that - a comment - someone's opinion. Something we all have a right to in this country, even if you think another's opinion is idiotic. McCain is not god - he very possibly has made a mistake or two in his life......put on your big girl panties and deal with it!!!!
If you have something to say, try inventing your own handle. How insecure do you have to be to pose as someone else?
'Something we all have a right to in this country, even if you think another's opinion is idiotic.'
Yes, you have a Constitutional right to be an idiot. Of course I have the right to point it out when you are exercising that right.
'McCain is not god - he very possibly has made a mistake or two in his life......'
Sure. But ingratitude toward someone who might or might not have been there, from someone who was going in and out of consciousness isn't one of them.
No, McCain ISN'T god - because you apparently think you are. McCain isn't getting any more bad press than Hillary or Obama is - it comes with the territory. It may or may not be correct - that's life. People who are for McCain will cry foul, while the opposition will jump on it, and THAT'S life, or haven't you found that out yet? Now go take a chill pill and relax!
..we're supposed to believe that the commir f--k gooks have a handle on some rice farmer, who 30 years ago, pulled a THE Johnny McCain out of the water, which he has NO recollection of, then they proceed to torture him for 5 years. Now, old Johnny's supposed to be grateful.
Suuuure! Thanks a pantload, Chet!
Looks like they opened the gate to the trailer park in the back woods!
'McCain isn't getting any more bad press than Hillary or Obama is - it comes with the territory.'
That is simply not true. We have the likes of Chris Matthews wetting himself at every utterance of the Obamamessiah, Keith oberman, the New York times and even lil ol Monsters & Critics resurrecting this old British tabloid bit of gossip... Nope. Perhaps you aare just seeing what you wish to see. The Press is trying to decide this election and no body elected the press to decide who our leaders should be.
'THAT'S life, or haven't you found that out yet?'
Aaah, so no reason to demand better, eh?
'Now go take a chill pill and relax!'
You are censoring me, waah waah waah!
see a shrink!
As usual some of our american friends have some trouble distinguishing facts from fiction.Fact;the US airforce dropped more bombs on Indochina than during the second world war.Strange as never war was declared.Imaginr for a minute the Vietnamese bombing the USA for years,dropping explosives on your cities and vilages,amongst which napalm,without even declaring a war .Now wouldn't you call them terrorists of the worst kind.Wouldn't you drag any captured vietnamese pilot trough the streets of yoyr cities and kill them ?Then what makes you think a vietnamese citizen should act differently ?Your propaganda ?Get a concience and learn to look at the wotld from a different perspective .Itseems the vietnamese are more civilized than some americans who still didnt digest a war lost never declared ?Propaganda does that to a simple minded person.To look at thecomplete picture is apperently an effort their humble brain cells can not sustain,as usual SP4 is the perfect example of that .
His feeble little mind can't handle the truth.
'As usual some of our american friends have some trouble distinguishing facts from fiction'
You don't have any friends, American or otherwise.
'Wouldn't you drag any captured vietnamese pilot trough the streets of yoyr cities and kill them '
No.
tonny from belgiumJun 28th, 2008 - 00:18:59
As usual some of our american friends have some trouble distinguishing facts from fiction.
sp4 - how so?
Fact;the US airforce dropped more bombs on Indochina than during the second world war.
sp4 - perhaps. What does that have to do with this article?
Strange as never war was declared.
sp4 - really? You never heard of Korea??? By the way, make note: The liberals were in power at the time.
Imaginr for a minute the Vietnamese bombing the USA for years,dropping explosives on your cities and vilages,amongst which napalm,without even declaring a war .
sp4 - O.K. For the folks bombed, why would that make any difference??? By the way, the N. Vietnamese never declared war on S. Vietnam, either. In other revelations, the French and NATO never declared war on Yugoslavia, but sent forces there in the 1990's. Study that and get back to us.
Now wouldn't you call them terrorists of the worst kind.
sp4 - No. It's a soverign nation acting on their own behalf. Terorists are not defined as combatants for soverign nations. Inform yourself.
\
Wouldn't you drag any captured vietnamese pilot trough the streets of yoyr cities and kill them ?
sp4 - no, Tonny, it's against the law in the USA to do such things, so we do not do them. We have a sophisticated legal system that grants them hearings and due process. Inform yourself.
Then what makes you think a vietnamese citizen should act differently ?
sp4 - see above
Your propaganda ?
sp4 - not that I can see.
Get a concience and learn to look at the wotld from a different perspective .Itseems the vietnamese are more civilized than some americans who still didnt digest a war lost never declared ?P
sp4 - lets look at it from a different perspective: After we left, the Vietnamese killed a good 500,000 people in 'reeducation camps', ethnicly cleansed another million Mung and Montangard tribes, the Laotians, and without American presence, the Cambodians killed a million more. The Vietnamese sent well over 130,000 'guest Workers'(slaves) to Russia to build the Trans-Sinberian Pipeline, in which you and you european friends share the benefit's of to this day. It seems you DID have an incentive for the war to end! Europe: still benefits from slavery.
Propaganda does that to a simple minded person.
sp4 - Why it certainly does Tonny. Just see the above.
To look at thecomplete picture is apperently an effort their humble brain cells can not sustain,as usual SP4 is the perfect example of that .
sp4 - By the way, go take that razor sharp insight and study 'French-Indochina' By all means, get back to us on what you find!
Schools out for the day (maybe) You need remdial work Tonny. Go inform yourself.
The thing I find funny is that the people who are shouting out that this story is untrue are the two people on this board that are the most full of crap. McCain is a big boy and can handle himself, but he is going to take some 'hits' some true and some untrue. The 'hits' that are lies will pale when compared to the lies that these two and the right wing will be making up about Obama. That said I need to remind all:
RCP Average 06/15 - 06/27 -- 47.1 40.6 Obama +6.5
Rasmussen Tracking 06/25 - 06/27 3000 LV 49 44 Obama +5.0
Gallup Tracking 06/24 - 06/26 2639 RV 44 44 Tie
Time 06/19 - 06/25 805 RV 47 43 Obama +4.0
LA Times/Bloomberg 06/19 - 06/23 1115 RV 49 37 Obama +12.0
Franklin & Marshall 06/16 - 06/22 1501 RV 42 36 Obama +6.0
Newsweek 06/18 - 06/19 896 RV 51 36 Obama +15.0
FOX News 06/17 - 06/18 900 RV 45 41 Obama +4.0
USA Today/Gallup 06/15 - 06/19 1310 LV 50 44 Obama +6.0
The Songbird gets pulled from lake, that part is true ! Then the Songbird says who his daddy is, a Navy Admiral. Then the Songbird gets special treatment, and you know the rest of the story ! Vietnam is posting stories about McCain the Songbird in its papers, the same goes in Iraq, Iran and the non government controlled press in Afghanistan, about his special treatment days while he was making propaganda recordings for the North Vietnam.
Bush was a Vietnam dodger a coke head and gave up golf for the US dead in Iraq and Afghanistan, thanks to his Daddy
Cheney was differed 3 times to stay out of the Vietnam War, thanks to his Daddy
McCain the all time Songbird of Hanoi, special treatment and a celebrity for North Vietnam. By Today's Military Standards, some of McCain's combat missions should have not even been called a combat mission, but nothing more then training missions . Its all on the net !! Lets all give a Big Hand Salute to his Daddy, for playing up his little boy !!
You think the Republican Party could do a better job !!
And so it is...........................
Whether or not this story is true, and the people up in arms defending McCain because of it, pales in comparison to some of the crap put out about Obama and Hillary - get used to is!! Time to move on to the real issues.
' McCain is a big boy and can handle himself,'
Something ELSE that puts him ahead of that arrogant crybaby that you lemmings flock to.
'but he is going to take some 'hits' some true and some untrue.'
So that makes it OK?
'The 'hits' that are lies will pale when compared to the lies that these two and the right wing will be making up about Obama.'
Such as?
'That said I need to remind all:'
God help us. Really, you have been warned; Obama will be a disaster if things don't change before November. I think part of you even realizes this, yet you don't care. You want what you want and to hell with the USA if you can get what you want.
If your comments are in response to the previous posting, you are adding to it to change it around, but that's OK. Not everyone understands what they read. McCain will have his share of junk thrown at him as well as Obama and Hillary. EOS
...the dems got rosey poll numbers in 1980, 1984, 1988, and 2000 and 2004...how'd all that turn out, by the way?
'If your comments are in response to the previous posting, you are adding to it to change it around, but that's OK. '
Well, no... This was in response to Pperfect.
Sorry - it gets to be way too much to read those long, drawn-out posts. I guess what I said was a little similar without having read Pperfect
'Something ELSE that puts him ahead of that arrogant crybaby that you lemmings flock to.'
Not much of a response from the likes of you. I believe that Obama has shown he can take the heat. Remember when they were saying the Clintons were going to screw him out of the nomination? Lots of heat from you neo-con nuts, but he is still there. Your boy has had a pass up to this point.
'So that makes it OK? '
Yes, why not?
'Such as?'
He is Muslim, he was educated as a Muslim, he has taken kickbacks from Rezko, he hates America, etc. Pick one!
'God help us. Really, you have been warned; Obama will be a disaster if things don't change before November. I think part of you even realizes this, yet you don't care. You want what you want and to hell with the USA if you can get what you want.'
God is helping us bringing Mr. Obama to us to help change the evil lying ways of the Republican Party. 'You have been warned'????? By whom, someone I would not trust to tell me if the sun is shining? I do care, that is why I have done everything on my part to get Mr. Obama elected. That is your opinion, if you don't like him, if he is elected you can move to Australia, their politics more match yours!
And by the way, it appears that your old guy is not ahead of Obama in any of the polls. So in an effort to correct another half-truth of yours, your statement 'Something ELSE that puts him ahead of that arrogant crybaby that you lemmings flock to'. In order to get the 'else' part, one has to be ahead somewhere to begin with.
'I believe that Obama has shown he can take the heat.'
By lying, flipflopping, pandering, lying some more.
'Remember when they were saying the Clintons were going to screw him out of the nomination?'
She got more votes then the miserable turd.
'Yes, why not?'
Remember that.
'He is Muslim, he was educated as a Muslim, he has taken kickbacks from Rezko, he hates America, etc. Pick one!'
'Hates'? The word is resents. I think his ugly wife hates the country, but that just my opinion.
And yes, he was born a Muslim according to islamic tradition. He ADMITS getting Islamic education in Indonesia, where he was registered at a madrassah and a private school by his parents as a Muslim. He couldn't have bought his property without the money he got from Tony Rezko and the sweetheart deal that he got and he wrote letters on Tony Rezko's behalf helping him to steal millions of dollars in tax payer money. Tony Rezko was one of Obamas greatest campaign contributers. All of that can be proven, indeed I have posted links from reputable newspapers like the New York times, Chicago Sun and the Telegraph confirming all of it. So no, I haven't lied. You just will not allow yourself to see what you do not want to see.
' I do care, that is why I have done everything on my part to get Mr. Obama elected.'
Well, you have demonstrated your complete ignorance of every other subject here, congratulations you have now made it 100%. Congratulations, you might lemming your way off the cliff for real, you moron.
' if he is elected you can move to Australia, their politics more match yours!'
Ill stay and fight this every step of the way. I am not going anywhere. You are a spoiled rotten trust fund baby who couldn't create a fart with a can of beans. If people like me move to Australia who are you going to leech off of after the socialists that you stupidly want to put in power take daddy's money away from you? You might actually have to do something other then stunt the growth of those who you were entrusted to help.
'And by the way, it appears that your old guy is not ahead of Obama in any of the polls. '
I didn't say that the only one who isn't a wet behind the ears, lying, appeasing, surrendering, constitution trashing, elitist snot was ahead in the polls, idiot. Learn how to read.
'so in an effort to correct another half-truth of yours, your statement 'Something ELSE that puts him ahead of that arrogant crybaby that you lemmings flock to'.'
Moron. Go back and read it again. No wait, Ill save you from tilting your empty head up.
' McCain is a big boy and can handle himself,'
Something ELSE that puts him ahead of that arrogant crybaby that you lemmings flock to. '
Meaning that Obama isn't a big boy who can handle himself. He is a big incompetent liar who can herd morons. So no, not a half truth, something ELSE that you are too thick to understand.
you an order two months ago, something to the effect;
'Say or do what you want to me but, ''LEAVE MY WIFE OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
(((.....'Hates'? The word is resents. I think his ugly wife hates the country, but that just my opinion.)))
you an order two months ago, something to the effect;
'Say or do what you want to me but, ''LEAVE MY WIFE OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
'By lying, flipflopping, pandering, lying some more.'
Defined by one who supports the biggest flip-flopper in presidential campaign history!
'She got more votes then(sp) the miserable turd.'
That is typical of your half-truth telling. She only got more votes when counted by her supporters. It is widely questioned when the real votes are counted, not the projected votes.
'Remember that.'
Thanks I will.
''Hates'? The word is resents. I think his ugly wife hates the country, but that just my opinion. '
I would say you would only call someone a turd if you hated them (of course I have to take into account who I am dealing with---one with no class and can only get his point across by calling people names---but for sure a liar). And as they say opinions are like as*holes, they all are different and most of them stink. Be nice to the new first lady!
'And yes, he was born a Muslim according to islamic tradition.'
His dad was Muslim, his mother American why can't he be called an American? Does that not fit in your little hate playbook?
'He ADMITS getting Islamic education in Indonesia, where he was registered at a madrassah and a private school by his parents as a Muslim.'
As usual only half true, by the time he was in the 5th grade he was in school in Hawaii, but I guess attending a school (not a madrassah) in Indonesia he must be a Muslim? Stupid even for the right wing of this country.
'He couldn't have bought his property without the money he got from Tony Rezko and the sweetheart deal that he got and he wrote letters on Tony Rezko's behalf helping him to steal millions of dollars in tax payer money.'
'Millions'??? First of all he did not take payback/kickbacks for any favors and operated everything out in the open. Please show where he took money other than donations from Rezko (of which he gave to charities as soon as Rezko was charged).
'Tony Rezko was one of Obamas greatest campaign contributers.'
Yes he did donate to Obama's campaign, and Obama gave it to a charity as soon as Rezko was charged with anything. making the statement 'one of Obama's greatest campaign contributers' is typical of you, not even near the truth.
'All of that can be proven, indeed I have posted links from reputable newspapers like the New York times, Chicago Sun and the Telegraph confirming all of it. So no, I haven't lied. You just will not allow yourself to see what you do not want to see.'
No you have only told half the truth. If any of this dribble could be proved Obama would have been charged with something---he has not been charged. How many times do I have to stress this to you. I would call you an idiot, but don't want to lower myself to your level.
'Well, you have demonstrated your complete ignorance of every other subject here, congratulations you have now made it 100%. Congratulations, you might lemming your way off the cliff for real, you moron.'
In your head only. You only tell half the truth all the time. Your credibility is much more suspect here than mine. You are typical of a neo-con right wing nutjob, living in a dream world hoping General McCain (George the III) has a chance. Good luck with that.
'Ill stay and fight this every step of the way. I am not going anywhere. You are a spoiled rotten trust fund baby who couldn't create a fart with a can of beans. If people like me move to Australia who are you going to leech off of after the socialists that you stupidly want to put in power take daddy's money away from you? You might actually have to do something other then stunt the growth of those who you were entrusted to help. '
That's your right, and I support your rights. It will be ok, Obama will help this country get back the respect and stature it once had. The second sentence shows your ignorance (typical). Stay here and pay your share of taxes that will be fun to take care of those who have less than we do, don't you think? I will keep teaching and helping young minds find the truth.
'I didn't say that the only one who isn't a wet behind the ears, lying, appeasing, surrendering, constitution trashing, elitist snot was ahead in the polls, idiot. Learn how to read.'
Don't you get tired of showing how ignorant you are? You missed the key word in your own sentence 'else'. I don't see where he is ahead in any category so how could 'else' apply?
'Moron. Go back and read it again. No wait, Ill save you from tilting your empty head up.'
I think you need to go back and read it. Please explain the 'something else' part.
'Meaning that Obama isn't a big boy who can handle himself. He is a big incompetent liar who can herd morons. So no, not a half truth, something ELSE that you are too thick to understand.'
Seems to me he is handling himself pretty well. I guess you would know a liar, but I don't see where you can differentiate between the two. Isn't this politics as usual. The choice is clear do you want a new direction or the same old crap? I pick new!
'Defined by one who supports the biggest flip-flopper in presidential campaign history!'
Simply not true. Regardless, McCain hasn't broken any promises, Obama has.
'. She only got more votes when counted by her supporters. '
Again, simply not true. She got less delegates because the votes were not fairly counted in Florida and Michigan. Some of her delegates were actually given to him in Michigan.
'It is widely questioned when the real votes are counted, '
Whatever that means. According to RealClearPolitics.com she got more actual votes then Obama.
'I would say you would only call someone a turd if you hated them'
And where did I say that Obama called the USA a 'turd'?
'with no class and can only get his point across by calling people names'
That doesn't even get the point across to you. The only thing left is dynamite.
'His dad was Muslim, his mother American why can't he be called an American?'
He can be called an American. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. Idiot. My point was that I had spoken the whole truth and nothing but the truth in that he is by islamic law a Muslim. Do you think the islamist's that we are fighting follow our law or theirs?
'As usual only half true,'
NO, IT IS ENTIRELY TRUE, in Dreams of My Father, Obama wrote about how he got into trouble for making faces during Koran studies. He can still recite the call to prayer according to Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times and he can do it in Arabic.
'by the time he was in the 5th grade he was in school in Hawaii'
What does that have to do with attending an Islamic school in Indonesia?
'but I guess attending a school (not a madrassah) in Indonesia he must be a Muslim? '
A school with a religious component is called a Madrassah. Deal with it.
'Millions'??? '
Yes, Tony Rezko got millions of tax payer money for doing nothing. Obama helped him to get that money by writing letters on his behalf. Obama admits this.
'first of all he did not take payback/kickbacks for any favors and operated everything out in the open.'
That isn't true, especially the 'out in the open' part. Obama has consistently lied and only when pinned down has he admitted the truth.
Here: As a state senator, Barack Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting his political patron Tony Rezko's successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens.
The deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama's former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama's state Senate district.
Obama's letters, written nearly nine years ago, for the first time show the Democratic presidential hopeful did a political favor for Rezko -- a longtime friend, campaign fund-raiser and client of the law firm where Obama worked -- who was indicted last fall on federal charges that accuse him of demanding kickbacks from companies seeking state business under Gov. Blagojevich.
The letters appear to contradict a statement last December from Obama, who told the Chicago Tribune that, in all the years he's known Rezko, 'I've never done any favors for him.'''
www.suntimes.com/news/politics/425305,CST-NWS-obama13.article
YES, PROVABLE, HE ISN'T EVEN DENYING IT ANY MORE.
'Yes he did donate to Obama's campaign, and Obama gave it to a charity as soon as Rezko was charged with anything.'
First he gave some of the money to charity, not all. Second, does that make it OK somehow? To help someone steal MILLIONS and then give some of what you stole away to someone else? (And take a tax deduction on it?)
'making the statement 'one of Obama's greatest campaign contributers' is typical of you, not even near the truth.'
It is EXACTLY THE TRUTH:
Rezko cash triple what Obama says
DONATIONS $168,000 traced to indicted businessman, associates over the years
During his 12 years in politics, Sen. Barack Obama has received nearly three times more campaign cash from indicted businessman Tony Rezko and his associates than he has publicly acknowledged, the Chicago Sun-Times has found.
Obama has collected at least $168,308 from Rezko and his circle. Obama also has taken in an unknown amount of money from people who attended fund-raising events hosted by Rezko since the mid-1990s.
Obama has collected at least $168,308 from Rezko and his circle. Obama also has taken in an unknown amount of money from people who attended fund-raising events hosted by Rezko since the mid-1990s.
But seven months ago, Obama told the Sun-Times his 'best estimate' was that Rezko raised 'between $50,000 and $60,000' during Obama's political career.
www.suntimes.com/news/politics/432197,CST-NWS-obama18.article
Aren't you getting the picture yet? I do not lie. I can back what I say with independent corroboration.
'No you have only told half the truth. If any of this dribble could be proved Obama would have been charged with something--'
Why? Because the system works so well? Especially in Chicago? If I have only been told half the truth what is the whole truth? That somehow he is not a corrupt, cheating liar? I have submitted a small fraction of the evidence that he is, where is yours that he is innocent? That he hasn't been convicted?
'ou only tell half the truth all the time.'
I have told the truth and your only lame retort has been to call it lies. Even in the face of corroboration from legitimate sources. That is just pathetic.
'Good luck with that.'
Ill take it. I hope your guy falls under his own bus as he is tossing his former associates under it.
' It will be ok, Obama will help this country get back the respect and stature it once had.'
How? Bankrupting us with his stupid grade school economic policies? Trashing the military? Appeasement? No, Nothing this IDIOT that you want to see elected wants to do will bring respect.
' Stay here and pay your share of taxes that will be fun to take care of those who have less than we do, don't you think? '
I pay taxes already. I also contribute to charity. My 'share' of taxes is accounted for. You have hinted around that your daddy intends to hide the money he is leaving to you because Obama wants to take HALF of it away. That makes you a hypocrite. (As if there was any doubt left)
Additionally, did it ever occur to you that those who have less than [I] do haven't done as much as I have to earn it? That taking 'care' of them beyond a certain point will just make them helpless?
'I will keep teaching and helping young minds find the truth. '
You have demonstrated that not only do you not know what truth is but you are incredibly hostile to the whole concept of truth if it contradicts what you want to believe in ANY way what so ever.
'I don't see where he is ahead in any category so how could 'else' apply?'
Well, he has had 50 years of service to the USA. He has served honorably in the military. He is raising and has raised 7 children who have turned out to be decent people. @ of his boys have served in Iraq, that with his military experience gives him the moral authority to be the commander in chief in a time of war. He has shown a commitment to controlling spending and waste. He has shown responsibility, decency and compassion over a long career.
He has EARNED this. The fact that McCain has Earned this puts him ahead of someone who clearly has not.
'Seems to me he is handling himself pretty well.'
His handlers are handling him brilliantly. Evey time they take away the cue cards though, he blows it.
'Isn't this politics as usual. The choice is clear do you want a new direction or the same old crap?'
Contradict yourself much? You were right the first time. Politics as usual, nothing 'new'.
'I pick new!'
There is nothing new about the policies of Jimmy carter wedded to the ethics of Bubba Clinton and Richard Nixon. Nothing new at all.
This McCain guy is really UNGRATEFUL.
It's been stated that 'flying in a fighter plane and being shot down' doesn't make you an expert on military matters so to speak. McCain's experience has been touted over and over against Obama's experience. I think that having the expertise in addressing foreign leaders and having the knowledge to work with top military officials should go a long way. The people a President surrounds him or herself makes a big difference.
Consider MCCain's experience, then compare to his rival:
Barack Obam has sucked the marrow of life from the US his whole existence, and has the gall to walk into and embrace a church in which grievence is the gospel. In fact, he has more in common with Bush than he does with McCain.
And what exactly do you mean that 'Obama has sucked the morrow of life from the U.S. his entire existance'! ?? Did you also know him from birth?
Just exactly what is your problem--don't like McCain--fine
Dislike his ideas -you have every right
Make fun of the fact he was beaten, starved, and tortured for years, even after he was offered a way out --because he would not cave --you have no right to do this.
He was taking a beating everyday so your fat ass could drink Pabst blue ribbon and eat moon pies--you are 1 lowlife scum
Is a mentally disturbed, physically handicapped ungrateful poopie. Speaking of which...I gotta go
McCane or what evare is name is
'I meant
McCane or what evare is name is'
Thanks for nothing you illiterate monkey.
Than an ugly honkey.....hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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andyJun 26th, 2008 - 11:57:56
and thats why it is so important to keep the iraq war going for 100 yrs
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