US Features
Bailout still under fire from both sides
Oct 3, 2008, 15:10 GMT
Traders work on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange at the start of the trading day in New York, New York, USA, on 02 October 2008. Worldwide financial markets are waiting for the United States House of Representatives to vote on financial legislation. EPA/JUSTIN LANE
Washington - Pablo Fierro came to Washington from Philadelphia for a rally against the proposed 700-billion-dollar financial bailout, which the House of Representatives could vote on Friday.
He held up an orange sign: 'No to the bankers' coup d'etat.'
Thursday's rally within shouting distance of the US Capitol was organized by a hastily assembled group, votenobailout.org, whose website had links to several far-left or anti-war groups.
Among the fewer than 100 demonstrators were some two dozen people including Fierro wearing yellow t-shirts from the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, which combines non-profit mortgage lending with political advocacy.
With a stiff breeze putting a chill into the air on a sunny autumn morning, Fierro wore a bulky jacket with a 'Latinos for Obama' sticker. Yet, Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, has strongly supported the legislation since it was first proposed late last month and voted Wednesday for a revised Senate version.
The opposition to the bailout has created odd bedfellows, with conservative Republicans opposing government intervention on free- market grounds, while smaller numbers of Democrats in Congress and left-leaning interest groups like NACA opposing what they consider a huge gift to moneyed interests on Wall Street.
The public response to the measure - which backers insist is a 'rescue plan' for the entire economy - has been overwhelmingly negative.
After the House voted down an initial bailout proposal on Monday, diverse groups desperate for government action also began to mobilize, including both the US Chamber of Commerce and groups of pensioners, who tend to rely on stock market investments to supplement their pension incomes.
The legislation would authorize a mountain of money to buy up mortgage-backed securities and other so-called 'toxic' financial assets. Building up for more than a year as the US housing bubble burst, worries about the extent of bad debt are contributing to a credit slowdown in the United States and around the world.
Several anti-bailout rally speakers called for a moratorium on foreclosures and a halt to interest-rate hikes on mortgages with adjustable terms.
The package has 'nothing in it that protects home owners and their interests. That's why we're here,' Fierro said.
After the rally, he planned to join other demonstrators as they broke into groups to lobby House members and their staffs.
Seeming somewhat out of place, Jamie Sheffield, a self-described conservative from the tiny rural community of Ruther Glen, Virginia, held a handwritten sign declaring 'Just say no to socialism' on one side and 'Vote no bailout' on the reverse. His wife had a sign that read, 'Obey the constitution.'
Sheffield has 'never really been active before' on a political issue, but the financial crisis has motivated him out of worry for his adult children and grandchildren.
He blamed Congress for having 'created this problem,' lamented that his own Republican congressman already voted for the bailout on Monday and questioned whether it would work.
'It's not gonna stop this calamity. It's gonna prolong it, maybe,' Sheffield said.
'They're cramming it down our throats with all these scare tactics. That's no way to govern. That's the same way they got us into Iraq.'
Bemused tourists watched from a distance at the small but occasionally loud demonstration, punctuated by chants such as 'Jail them, don't bail them.' Passing cars frequently sounded their horns, but it was unclear if drivers were honking in support or annoyance.
In an attempt at political street theatre, members of another radical protest group, Code Pink, portrayed the arrest of US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who proposed the main planks of the bailout package and until two years ago was the high-paid chief of investment bank Goldman Sachs.
A demonstrator in a dark suit wore a giant, paper-mache head with dollar bills stuffed into the mouth, flanked by two women wearing police hats and holding up yellow police-line tape.
Code Pink first organized in opposition to the Iraq War, and the paper-mache head looked suspiciously like former US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld, fired two years ago. Paulson is almost completely bald, while the mascot-like head had dark hair, which had been painted over.
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Older Talkback
page: 1
... lobbyists.
Rick Davis ... McCain campaign Manager ... until not long ago, he was making $30,000 a month from Fannie and Freddie ... and Rick Davis is still part owner of a company that does work for Fannie and Freddie.
McCain and his campaign are hardly clean of this mess.
But the above poster isn't concerned with the full truth.
Instead he just wants to smear without looking at his own party.
Typical Rove-ian tactics.
Maverick. A Maverick is defined as a lone dissenter, as an intellectual, an artist, or a politician, who takes an independent stand apart from his or her associates. By voting with his party 90% of the time, he is way outside of this definition.
Palin his running mate is more of a Maverick than he is, she has hardly had the time to gain enough experience to lie as well as McSame does. I love her being on this ticket, the only thing she has left is the base, good luck with just the base.
19 of McCains staff are ex-fannie and freddie ..
That is not true. It is simply a complete lie.
'But the above poster isn't concerned with the full truth.'
You are flat out lying. Name them as I have done. I want to see 19 names. Lets see them, liar.
'By voting with his party 90% of the time, he is way outside of this definition.'
Most votes in the senate are procedural and most non procedural votes are passed by unanimous consent. That whole 'votes 90% of the time' canard is recognized as BS immediately by anyone with a brain.
' she has hardly had the time to gain enough experience to lie as well as McSame does.'
She has more experience as the head of the democratic ticket and she is only running for VP. No one can beat Obama in the lying department though.
...STILL working for Fannie
Still no list of 19 names.
And still no 19 names...
Who is stupid enough to think they have to answer to anyone here - LOL!
... if you follow the link below, and if you read it (if you can read), You'll find the names of the lobbyists, and all of McCains staff ... sort through it ... I'm not gonna do it for you..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_John_McCain_presidential_campaign_staff_m embers,_2008
Also, Try googling 'McCain lobbyist campaign staffers' ... you'll find plenty of factual information on the subject of lobbyists on McCains staff ... but we know you shy away from factual information, so I doubt you'll read anything.
'You'll find the names of the lobbyists, and all of McCains staff ... sort through it ... I'm not gonna do it for you..'
LOL!!!!
No 19 freddie and Fannie lobbiests, AS A MATTER OF FACT, according to your source the number is ZERO. That makes you are a liar.
Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick and Penny Pritzker all worked with Obama and they are all thieves who bear great responsibility for the melt down.
MCCain on the other hand tried to STOP this mess with the The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act that would have regulated Freddie and Fannie but the the DEMOCRATS killed the bill.
'Never said 19 fannie and freddie lobbyists.'
Yes you did, you stupid, stupid time waster, HERE A CUT AND PASTE:
'19 of McCains staff are ex-fannie and freddie ...
... lobbyists.'
You IDIOT! YOU UNBELIEVABLE IDIOT! You can't even read your own effluence! Lol! Oh my God you are stupid! One more time:
'19 of McCains staff are ex-fannie and freddie ...
... lobbyists.' -idiot, Oct 3rd, 2008 - 21:04:59
'I said 19 lobbyists ...
Never said 19 fannie and freddie lobbyists.' -idiot, Oct 7th, 2008 - 21:22:05
That's too funny! you don't even understand your own cr*p. Moron.
'Rick Davis (McCain Campaign Manager)
Phil Gramm (McCain financial advisor, ex-campaign staffer and author of banking deregulation in 1999)'
That is another lie. Neither of these men have lobbied for freddie and fannie. They aren't even accused of it you idiot! Rick Davis's company did work for them but that's as close as it gets. You are grasping at straws. Phil Gramm was a senator, not a lobbyist!
You are LYING to try to obfuscate the provable fact that Obama has had the CEO's of these companies working on his campaign!
Stomp your feet.
Throw your tantrum.
The fact remains Rick Davis headed Fannie Mae lobby and said people wanted 'into houses cheap.' (a direct quote)
And Rick Davis IS McCains campaign manager.
And not long ago Rick Davis was making more than $30,000 a month doing work in Washington for Fannie and Freddie (still part owner of a company that CONTINUES to work for them) ... overall Rick Davis made more than $2 million doing work in DC for Fannie and Freddie.
Those are facts ...
'Rick Davis is ex-fannie'
That is a lie.
'Stomp your feet.Throw your tantrum.'
You are making a fool out of yourself.
'The fact remains Rick Davis headed Fannie Mae lobby.
'headed Fannie Mae lobby'? What does that even mean?
'and said people wanted 'into houses cheap.' (a direct quote)'
And? What does that signify?
A direct quote of yours is that '19 of McCains staff are ex-fannie and freddie ...lobbyists.' and that is a lie.
'And not long ago Rick Davis was making more than $30,000 a month doing work in Washington for Fannie and Freddie '
Davis denies it: 'Mr. Davis has never -- never -- been a lobbyist for either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Mr. Davis has not served as a registered lobbyist since 2005.' Since he denies it and you are a PROVEN liar....
'And Rick Davis IS McCains campaign manager.'
And David Axelrod IS Obamas campaign manager.
' When Illinois utility Commonwealth Edison wanted state lawmakers to back a hefty rate hike two years ago, it took a creative lobbying approach, concocting a new outfit that seemed devoted to the public interest: Consumers Organized for Reliable Electricity, or CORE. CORE ran TV ads warning of a “California-style energy crisis” if the rate increase wasn’t approved—but without disclosing the commercials were funded by Commonwealth Edison. The ad campaign provoked a brief uproar when its ties to the utility, which is owned by Exelon Corp., became known. “It’s corporate money trying to hoodwink the public,” the state’s Democratic Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn said. What got scant notice then—but may soon get more scrutiny—is that CORE was the brainchild of ASK Public Strategies, a consulting firm whose senior partner is David Axelrod, now chief strategist for Barack Obama.
If that seems a little dishonest, then check out what ASK proposed on behalf of Illinois hospitals:
But the activities of ASK (located in the same office as Axelrod’s political firm) illustrate the difficulties in defining exactly who a lobbyist is. In 2004, Cablevision hired ASK to set up a group similar to CORE to block a new stadium for the New York Jets in Manhattan. Unlike Illinois, New York disclosure laws do cover such work, and ASK’s $1.1 million fee was listed as the “largest lobbying contract” of the year in the annual report of the state’s lobbying commission. ASK last year proposed a similar “political campaign style approach” to help Illinois hospitals block a state proposal that would have forced them to provide more medical care to the indigent. One part of its plan: create a “grassroots” group of medical experts “capable of contacting policymakers to advocate for our position,” according to a copy of the proposal. (ASK didn’t get the contract.)
Obama has run on health-care issues to create universal health-insurance coverage to do exactly the opposite of what ASK proposed. Axelrod’s firm wanted to set up another phony front group to oppose that same policy, attempting to fake the public into thinking that the “grassroots” effort had nothing to do with the hospitals themselves. Axelrod’s firm had so much success with their front group for the energy company that they planned to duplicate the same dishonest structure in health care — and in both cases, on behalf of opponents of Obama’s professed policies today.'
Regardless, YOU HAVE OBAMA BEING ADVISED/LOBBIED/bought off BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO DROVE FREDDIE AND FANNIE IN TO THE GROUND AND CAUSED THIS CRISIS.
Additionally, lobbyist's or not (and the truth is 'not') MCCAIN proposed legislation that would have stopped this! He also voted for legislation that would have prevented this that Obama opposed!
That is just public record. Your pathetic attempts to obfuscate it are provable lies.
'The (until recently) general co-chairman of John McCain’s presidential campaign, '
He was fired by the McCain campaign. Next?
'led the charge in 1999 to repeal a Depression-era banking regulation law ...'
This was in 1999. The Freddie/fannie/sub prime crisis came about through democrats blocking regulation of 2 quasi private entities which were de facto-public backed. Here are the democrats doing just that, this is video of them blocking regulation. Don't believe me, believe them:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-_HlpZ8azA
Phil Graham had nothing to do with this, and he was fired from the McCain campaign as well.
So, your straw man is burnt to the ground.
... by a junior senator, in less than two years? ... is ridiculous.
You really know nothing of economics, or timeframes involved.
----------------
Gramm was let go by McCain in July ... not long ago at all. (3 months)
And there's a direct link to deregulation pushed and lobbied for by Phil Gramm (documented) in 1999 ... with endorsement by John McCain.
McCain DID campaign for deregulation ... here's a 1999 quote from him ... ''There's a number of reasons why we are experiencing this almost unprecedented prosperity. Among them are a lack of regulation, free trade, and most importantly, we are going through a revolution the likes of which the world has seldom seen.'
Phil Gramm DID author banking and mortgage deregulation in 1999 ... and successfully got it through congress. (no matter how much you stomp your feet and say no, the truth is he did)
In October 1999, Senate Republicans led by Phil Gramm were deep in negotiations on key legislation to deregulate the banking industry.
They got it passed under a republican controlled congress.
You think this economic mess only started a couple of years ago? By a junior senator?
Bwahahaha!!!!
Here’s what McCain has to say about the wonders of market-based health reform:
Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.
So McCain, who now poses as the scourge of Wall Street, was praising financial deregulation like 10 seconds ago — and promising that if we marketize health care, it will perform as well as the financial industry
Thanks for the reposts.
'You really know nothing of economics, or timeframes[sic] involved.'
It isn't just Obamas fault, it is the poeople in this video that are also guilty:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4
'Gramm was let go by McCain in July ... not long ago at all. (3 months)'
Fired is fired, as you have probably found out by now, Regardless, Graham had nothing to do with this and Obama has never fired Jim Johnson, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick or Penny Pritzker or the other cast of thieves, liars and grifters that e surrounds himself with, The only person hew has let go is Jeremiah Wright, his 'spiritual adviser'. He will probably be back too when the heat is off.
'McCain DID campaign for deregulation ... here's a 1999 quote from him ... ''
That is the 3rd time you have spammed the board with that same quote. 1 out of context quote doesn't change the fact that McCain pushed for reforms that would have stopped this crisis, TWICE.
He even proposed The 'FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM ACT OF 2005' would have headed this off but it was killed in the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs by Chris Dodd who received the most money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Bush sought to rein in Fannie and Freddie in 2003.
The Democratic response to Bush in 2003:
“These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. “The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECBIPeQpsA
This is beyond hope! America has fallen and......it can't get up.
How's that lookin' as a conservative principle?
Sure, John ... Let's expand gov't even more ... more than Obama proposes ... more than the 'great society' ... more and more gov't socialization ... that's what McCain is proposing
Folks he's talking HUGE government nationalization ...
Where's McCain gonna get the money? ... From Taxing my employer provided health insurance? (oh, he's already wanting to do that, isn't he)
This is YOUR candidate GOP guys.
The United States is full of corruption. From greedy corporate CEOs, to senators and congressmen who are influenced by lobbyists, to the VP himself with favoritism to Halliburton.
The whole of America seems to be diseased. Damaged beyond repair. This country is sooooo corrupt the senators and congressmen want to make believe they are angry at the greedy corporate CEOs. It is these same politicians who not so long ago were wined and dined by lobbyists. The same lobbyists that both presidential candidates are desperately trying to distance themselves from.
The most important thing America needs right now is political reforms.
Next thing economic reforms.
Than more specific: financial reforms.
And lastly, social reforms.
If America does not do this than it will risk falling further behind
SP4?
On another post your wrote that there is no economic trouble ... that it's only a production of the liberal media.
Yeah sure ... that's why banks in Britain, France, Germany, Iceland and China are getting bailed out by their gov'ts too ... all because of MSNBC.
You want us to 'listen' to you? ... go away.
You are beyond stupid SP4. ... Beyond anything in our language to describe stupid.
That obviously wasn't sp4.
page: 1
The causes of the economic crisis:Oct 3rd, 2008 - 18:58:45
The Main reason we are in an economic crisis is that the housing bubble has burst and it is taking down the lenders who gave mortgages to people who could not afford to borrow what they were allowed to borrow. These mortages were often sold to Fannie and Freddie/ Quasi private institutions who had public backing. The CEO's oand overseers of Fannie and Freddie were experts at buying off politicians in order to avoid regulation.
Obama took more money from Freddie and fannie than any other senator in such a short period of time. The only reason Chris Dodd was able to wring out more is because he was in the senate over 10 years. Here:
All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008
Name, Office, State, Party, Grand Total, Total from PACs, Total from Individuals
Dodd, Christopher J S CT D $165,400 $48,500 $116,900
Obama, Barack S IL D $126,349 $6,000 $120,349
Obama was the number 1 recipient of money from the failed countrywide mortgage lender.
This entire bailout/Crisis was caused by Freddie and fanny deliberately buying loans that were marginal from banks that deliberately loaned to people who were not qualified to borrow. Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines were CEOs of Freddie and Fannie and both walked away from the mess they made with tens of millions in undeserved bonuses and BOTH are not only contributers to Obama but both are key political and economic advisers to him and his campaign. Jim Johnson oversaw the Obama vice presidential search committee.
Penny Pritzker is Obamas campaign finance chairman, she made millions in the sub-prime crisis. Add Jamie Gorelick who is one of the Fannie executives who benefited from inflated bonuses based on Enron-style accounting and another Obama adviser and you pretty much have most of the major people involved in buying off politicians in order to limit Fannie/Freddies accountability giving money and advice to Obama.
Barack Obama is continuing a long history of helping other people steal from the tax payer in exchange for financial contributions and power. He did it with tony Rezko in Chicago who stole millions from the taxpayers took care of him well.. Now he is doing it with the CEOs of these failed banks who have bought and paid for him with OUR money in order to stop the regulatory bodies from stopping them from stealing.
If you don't believe me here is a video of a series of democrats actually stopping regulation that would have stopped this mess:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
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