US Features
Beyond God, guns and gays: US evangelicals head to polls
By Anne K Walters Oct 17, 2008, 2:24 GMT
Washington - Democrat Barack Obama may seem more comfortable discussing his Christian faith than any presidential candidate from his party since Jimmy Carter in 1976, but his focus on reaching out to religious voters appears to be doing little to swing a key voting bloc - evangelicals.
Evangelical Christians make up about 20 per cent of the electorate and have been among the backbone of the Republican Party for nearly 30 years, pushing the party further to the right on social issues, with their opposition to abortion and gay marriage.
But Democrats hoped some of those voters could be persuaded to support Obama this year, buoyed in part by a new focus on issues such as global warming and poverty among younger evangelical leaders.
Obama, who is the son of a Muslim from Kenya and was raised in a largely secular household before become a practicing Christian as a young adult, even hired an outreach coordinator for people of faith and lauded so-called faith-based initiatives that allow religious organizations to apply for federal money to run social service programmes.
'Jesus Christ died for my sins and I am redeemed through him,' Obama told a forum of Christian voters featuring both candidates at the 22,000-member Saddleback Church outside Los Angeles earlier this year.
But he was hurt by his refusal to address the perennial hot-button issue of abortion. When asked when life begins, he replied: 'To answer it with that specificity is above my pay grade.' And remarks at a fundraising event during the primary elections in which he referred to 'bitter' voters who 'cling to guns or religion' continue to sound a sour note on the campaign trail.
At a rally for Republican candidate John McCain in Pennsylvania this week, one man waved a sign proclaiming 'Pennsylvanians for guns and religion.'
McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his vice presidential pick was partly an attempt to shore up the vote of the same social conservatives. Palin, herself an evangelical Christian, has spoken out strongly against abortion and has been lauded by abortion opponents for her decision to give birth to a baby with Down syndrome earlier this year.
'They stand for the morals I believe in,' Melissa George, 40, said, stressing the importance of Palin's pro-life credentials at a campaign rally for the Republicans last month in Virginia.
Despite Obama's gains among the general electorate, large numbers of evangelicals look unlikely to migrate to his camp ahead of November 4 elections.
A survey released last month by the Pew Centre on Religion and Public Policy and the University of Akron found 57.2 per cent of white evangelicals support McCain, albeit less enthusiastically than past Republicans. Just 20 per cent were firmly in Obama's camp. This compares to 60.4 per cent support among the broader group for Bush in 2004.
McCain's support is even more stark among those with the most traditional views - such as a literal interpretation of the Bible - and most frequent attendance at religious service, with 71.6 per cent.
Still, social issues as a whole are not as likely to be as key as in past years.
The Pew survey showed the economy was the top issue among all categories of religious voters, from the most traditional evangelicals to atheists, and the issue is only likely to grow in importance as the financial crisis has dominated headlines in recent weeks.
'Considering the increased priority given to the economy across all religious communities, but particularly among evangelicals and other conservative Christians, it seems to me that the economy would give Obama an opportunity to pull some of those voters away from McCain,' said John Green, who conducted Pew's survey.
Though more recent polls show that Obama has picked up some support from evangelicals amid the ongoing economic woes, McCain still has a substantial lead with these voters.
Obama does appear to have drawn away support from less regular churchgoers. A poll last week by Faith in Public Life found those who attend religious services once or twice a month support Obama at a rate of 60 per cent, compared to just 49 per cent of occasional worshippers who cast their ballots for Democrat John Kerry in 2004.
Some observers have said Obama's move to reach out to religious voters was aimed more at peeling away support from this less diehard group, as well as Catholics and members of more liberal mainstream Protestant congregations.
In fact, an Obama staffer told magazine Christianity Today the move was aimed primarily at these mainline Protestants - such as Lutherans, Methodists and Episcopalians - in key swing states. The Pew study shows non-Latino Catholics split 44 per cent for McCain and 39 per cent for Obama, while so-called mainline Protestants split 43 per cent for McCain to 40 per cent for Obama.
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Older Talkback
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Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama promises to “cut taxes for 95 percent of American workers.” That’s not possible.
Why? More than 30 percent pay nothing in federal income taxes. Obama comes up with this number by calling tax credits “tax cuts.” One can debate whether these things are good or bad, but they are not tax cuts. McCain offers refundable tax credits for health care, as well as other credits, but he doesn’t insult the intelligence of the American people by calling them “tax cuts.” When Obama’s credits go to people who pay no federal income taxes or who pay less than the value of the credit, they are not “tax cuts.” They are transfers of money from one pocket to another, or redistributions of wealth, but they are not tax cuts.
Republican candidate John McCain should tell people in real, human terms how hiking taxes on the so-called rich affects us all. My friend Nina is a self-employed interior decorator. She just met a prospective married client, whose husband works in the entertainment industry. The client may pull the job because of Obama’s impending tax cuts. Nina makes well under $250,000, lives in an apartment, has no maid, and drives a midsize non-luxury car.
But the couple she hopes to get the job from face a tax rate of 39.5 percent plus increased Social Security taxes, on top of higher taxes for capital gains and dividends.
In promoting his tax cuts, President Kennedy said, “The soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the (tax) rates now.” When Kennedy says it, it’s Camelot. When Reagan says it, it’s trickledown. By the way, Kennedy cut taxes by 22 percent (reducing the top marginal rate from 90 percent to 70 percent), and Reagan by 60 percent (top marginal rate from 70 percent to 28 percent). The “unfair, pro-rich” Bush tax cuts that are set to expire? A reduction in the top marginal rate of approximately 7.5 percent. A recent headline in Agence France-Presse says it all: “Sweden Announces Income Tax Cuts to Boost Jobs.”
On spending, Obama now says — as with taxes — he may defer some of it because of a poor economy. But didn’t he consider the spending “investments” that are “fully paid for”? If they are investments that “don’t cost” anything, why put them off because of a bad economy? If Obama’s been telling the truth, the ideal time to spend and to raise taxes is precisely when things are bad, unless they a) are not paid for and b) are not investments that will “jump-start our economy.”
'Obama, who is the son of a Muslim from Kenya and was raised in a largely secular household before become a practicing Christian as a young adult...'
Careful, If you point that out, or the fact that Obama went to islamic school in Indonesia you will get called a bigot. Largely secular? According to his sister he was a practicing Muslim and acording to his book he studied the Koran at school.
Great fun ,Igoogled Ronald Kessler and this came up from wikipedia:Controversy
In an article for Newsmax, on March 16, 2008, Kessler incorrectly reported that Senator Barack Obama attended a service at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ on July 22, 2007, during which Rev. Jeremiah Wright gave a sermon that blamed world suffering on 'white arrogance.'[11] The story appeared in the context of a week in which the news media focused intently on Wright's sermons in their coverage of Obama's presidential campaign. Kessler's false report was cited by Bill Kristol in a New York Times' op-ed piece[12] and, months later, in The Obama Nation by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth associate Jerome Corsi.[13] The Obama campaign denied that Obama had attended the church on the day that sermon was delivered and other reporters discovered that Obama was in fact in transit to Miami, Florida on that day.[14] Kristol posted a correction and an apology at the online version of his article later in the day.[15] Newsmax posted a 'clarification' standing by the story, suggesting that perhaps the sermon occurred on a different day in July.[11] Shortly after the controversy broke, Kessler attempted to remove information documenting it from his Wikipedia biography.
Do neocons have other sources than themselves ?
..he was a Christian...
No one really has the true answer to when life begins, so Obama shouldn't be criticised for his answer. One religion or the other states that they alone have all the answers - so you aren't going to please everyone. As for Palin not aborting her baby. Why should she be given praise for that one? A Downs Snydrone baby/person is not like a fetus who hadn't developed a brain or other dire problems. Most become very capable people. I have a problem with her carrying her baby around to the rallies and speaking in her loud voice right beside the baby's ear. One would wonder if she is having him there for the effect.
I can walk into any organic science laboratory in the world, put virtually ANY organism in front of them and they will, conclusively, tell me if it is life, or not. This is only possible if they can,conclusively, tell me when that same life begins.
After all Bettie, if they cannot define when life IS life, or what life actually is how can they, legitiamtely, tell me if it is corporaeal life at all?
Now, Bettie, we are led to believe that, with all of this science, these same chuckleheads wish for us to believe they are befuddled by 'when life begins?'
Be sure to get back to me.
I wish to express my gratitude to SP4 for demonstrating that funding education is urgent .His latest post is sufficiently indicative for that.
SP speaks with his Catholic (we are the only true religion) mind!
I'm talking about a baby/human, and two cells in a petrie dish doesn't qualify!!!!
'Evangelist Tony Alamo appeared in court Friday on a federal charge accusing him of transporting minors across state lines for sex.'
Yeah we sure should care what these ignorant cretins think or do.
'tonny from beliumOct 17th, 2008 - 18:07:58
I wish to express my gratitude to SP4 for demonstrating that funding education is urgent .His latest post is sufficiently indicative for that.'
You have a hell of a nerve commenting on other peoples education when all of your posts are adolescent Trotskyite rants that look like they were typed by a monkey using it's tail.
..notice that the libnazi basement dwellers own educations failed not generate a cogent rebuttal to my argument...golly, what a surprise.
The fact is, life already HAS a definition, and saying it does not flies in the face of science. That being the case, the Libnazi elite hides behind the empty argument of 'gee, we really don't know!' when the answer is both sicentifically and morally available.
You see, boneheads, life either exists, or it does not...no gray area here...so man up and tell us why you do not think so, or run upstairs and ask the person who says she's your mommy, or your other mommy, or one of those rainbow coalition stepdaddies they are entertaining, if you cannot generate an argument on your own.
Perhaps these are the same 'scientists' who are, now, working on global warming?
I guess I can pull out of your rectums now...
Was your comments suppose to be blather or did you just want to rant? Thank god for the Europeans, the only sanity in this world comes from there. You are an idiot!
The greatest threats to world peace are the wild eyed zealots pushing their outdated religious doctrine which they want to enforce on the whole world - using force and killing innocent people where necessary.
Where are these people from ?
Well obviously - America and the bible thumping maniacs, willing to use guns to enforce their message of 'peace and goodwill'
“Was your comments[sic] suppose[sic] to be blather or did you just want to rant?”
No question in my mind; your question is blather. I am not surprised my statement confused you.
“Thank god for the Europeans, the only sanity in this world comes from there.”
You obviously have never been. You obviously just regurgitate what they tell you. You are obviously a moron.
Been? I lived there for 5 years after I spent 2 years in Italy in the Navy. The US is still the best country, but unlike your education we have learned a lot from Europe.........can you say Democracy. Must have been something there for us to copy? You are so blinded by your bigotry, you mush have a miserable life. No friends, 4 ex wives or 4 ex male lovers, kids that hate you, or no kids?
What a POS.
This site is better than Comedy Central!
'Been? I lived there for 5 years after I spent 2 years in Italy in the Navy.'
Where? I was in Italy in the Navy as well. For the record, I think you are a liar. Which base? You will be quizzed.
'but unlike your education we have learned a lot from Europe.........can you say Democracy.'
My education taught me the difference between modern Europe and ancient Greece.. The EU has nothing to do with any notion of 'democracy'.
'You are so blinded by your bigotry,'
Not at all, I just think it is a incredible that a bunch of jumped up, over inflated, sanctimonious soccer-hooligans can still prey upon the insecurities of needy, unworldly, easily lead Americans and persuade them to elect someone who will turn over our hard won sovereignty in order to peruse some childish notion of popularity.
I don’t live for their approval because I have seen that they don’t even approve of each other. I do not want this country following their example because I have seen where their example has gotten them. I don’t want to give them a say in how we conduct our affairs because I have seen that don’t have our best interests in mind.
“you mush[sic] have a miserable life.”
You sound real happy.
“No friends, 4 ex wives or 4 ex male lovers, kids that hate you, or no kids?”
You have me damned either way… Regardless, it is irrelevant to you being lead around by your insecurities. I am an American and am not willing to give the likes of envious idiots who regard my country as: “”The greatest threat to world peace” full of “wild eyed, bible thumping maniacs” and “zealots pushing their outdated religious doctrine which they want to enforce on the whole world using force and killing innocent people where necessary.”” I happen to think idiots like that don’t deserve a say in our affairs.
that Smiley D, pudnocker, headcase, the guy who can't get anything right is flinging his pop psychology around on this thread too. He is so imppressed with his own self importance that he cannot see that he is just another bland, garden variety idiot. He should go back to school, starting with pre-school, and get an education. Call it hamburger helper for that quarter pound of ground round that he's got stuffed between his ears.
how SP is so obcessed with mommies? Cause he didn't have one. He was discovered in a cabbage patch!
'that Smiley D, pudnocker, headcase[sic], the guy who can't get anything right is flinging his pop psychology around on this thread too. He is so imppressed[sic] with his own self importance that he cannot see that he is just another bland, garden variety idiot. He should go back to school, starting with pre-school, and get an education. Call it hamburger helper for that quarter pound of ground round that he's got stuffed between his ears. '
Not really a counterargument... Or coherent... Or sane...
Who in the f... is using my handle goddammit! I did not do the last posts. I will still vote for Barak Obama.
now that's going to be confusing as hell!
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SP4: did anyone say....GAY????Oct 17th, 2008 - 06:02:19
THATS MEEEEEEEEEEE...................YIPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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