US Features
Socialism in US? Taxes dominate final weeks of election
By Chris Cermak Oct 30, 2008, 2:18 GMT
Washington - With a financial system on the verge of meltdown and an economy facing a prolonged recession, the final weeks of the US election campaign have mostly focused on something much narrower: taxes.
Some of it is attributable to the sheer complexity of the financial turmoil that has ballooned out of control since September. Mortgage-backed securities, short-selling and mark-to-market accounting don't make for snappy soundbites in a 24-hour news cycle.
'Part of the reason why taxes matter is that people identify with them,' said Roberton Williams, a research associate with the Tax Policy Centre, a non-partisan think-tank. 'I mean, what's a credit default swap?'
Republican nominee John McCain and Democratic rival Barack Obama have largely stood behind the efforts of President George W Bush's administration to stabilize the financial industry. Both senators voted for a 700-billion-dollar rescue package, which allows the government to take stakes in banks.
By contrast, some of their sharpest philosophical differences are on tax policy. The debate has come to be embodied in a single, catchy phrase - 'spread the wealth' - that McCain supporters deride as socialism and Obama defends as a means of helping what he says is a struggling middle class.
'I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody,' Obama told Joe Wurzelbacher, an Ohio plumber who emerged as a celebrity of sorts since the exchange in early October.
McCain zeroed in on the comment, and 'Joe the plumber' has become a regular feature of McCain's stump speeches. Wurzelbacher has since endorsed McCain and appeared Wednesday at a rally with vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin.
McCain has slammed Obama's economic philosophy as 'wealth redistribution' that smacks of the job-killing socialist policies promoted in Europe.
'At least in Europe, the socialist leaders who so admire my opponent are upfront about their objectives,' McCain said in a recent radio address.
US politicians, especially Republicans, have long ridiculed European economic policies, which place more emphasis on social welfare programmes than in the United States.
At the centre-right party's convention in September, Republican presidential also-ran Mitt Romney, now a McCain supporter, warned that Europe's path 'leads to moribund growth and double-digit unemployment.'
Raising the spectre of 'socialism' has peaked the interest of all sides and dominated discussion since, though it's something of a false debate. Both candidates support a progressive income tax and neither has promoted a dramatic expansion of social welfare programmes.
'We're a long way from European socialism,' said Robertson. 'I won't be losing sleep over it.'
Rhetoric aside, there are key policy differences at the heart of the dispute.
For people earning more than 250,000 dollars per year, Obama would repeal a series of broad tax cuts first passed in the early years of the Bush administration.
The centre-left candidate promises tax relief for the remaining 95 per cent of US workers. High-income earners would return to the 39- per-cent tax rate they paid under former president Bill Clinton, up from from 36 per cent currently.
McCain was among a select few Republican senators who voted against Bush's tax cuts in in both 2001 and 2003. McCain now says he would make them permanent and promises additional tax cuts for the middle class, calling it dangerous to raise taxes on anyone in a time of economic crisis.
Neither plan would much reduce the ballooning federal deficit. Obama's tax and spending proposals would add about 3.5 trillion dollars and McCain's 5 trillion dollars by 2018 to the national debt, according to the Tax Policy Centre.
Most economists agree that some extra deficit spending is a necessary evil, as the United States works its way out of what could be a protracted recession.
'Getting the economy moving again and pursuing national priorities will be expensive. But it is a cost that we as a nation can certainly afford,' wrote John Irons of the Economic Policy Institute.
In the same vein, Williams agreed that Obama's tax hike on the wealthy could harm the economy in the short-term, though it will be necessary in the long run to help combat the deficit. He noted that middle-class wages have stagnated over the last 30 years, while wages for the highest-income bracket have doubled.
Obama points to that discrepancy - and the looming recession - to argue that the economy must be built from the 'bottom up.'
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Older Talkback
page: 1
'out in the real world, Obama is a rightwinger.'
Out in the 'real world' people starve to death because of the socialist policies of their government.
No worries, soon we will be 'just another country' as well, then you can bitch constantly about China or India... Because all you CAN do is whine.
'Because all you CAN do is whine.'
You do know that whining about people starving is MUCH better than ignoring people starving, don't you?
Most people in the U.S. ignore problems; hence the financial meltdown. They also ignore several other epidemics in the U.S.: Alcohol abuse, cigarettes, overweight, poverty (yes, it is in the U.S.), diabetes, dementia , etc., etc.
I must acknowledge though that the cigarettes problem is finally getting some attention. Imagine people legally being able to slowly murder themselves by puffing on multiple toxins. What a statement about human nature.
An example of the 'successful' application of non-socialist policies in the US -
Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 12% to 16% living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time, and roughly 40% falling below the poverty line at some time within a 10 year time span. Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75. While there remains some controversy over whether the official poverty threshold over- or understates poverty, the United States has some of the highest absolute and relative pre- and post-transfer poverty rates in the developed world. Overall, the U.S. ranks 12th on the Human Development Index.
Those under the age of 18 were the most likely to be impoverished. In 2006 the poverty rate for minors in the United States was the highest in the industrialized world, with 21.9% of all minors and 30% of African American minors living below the poverty threshold.
'You do know that whining about people starving is MUCH better than ignoring people starving, don't you?'
Best to throw someone else's money at them rather then ask why is it that in the middle of potential prosperity that they are starving. Right?
'Most people in the U.S. ignore problems;'
Until they can't anymore. I have to admit. It looks like we are going to have to eliminate every other choice/excuse before we address them.
'They also ignore several other epidemics in the U.S.: Alcohol abuse, cigarettes, overweight, poverty (yes, it is in the U.S.), diabetes, dementia , etc., etc.'
You forgot old age and tooth decay. Where did I put that magic wand.
'Imagine people legally being able to slowly murder themselves by puffing on multiple toxins.'
Sort of like watching the so called 'news'.
'What a statement about human nature.'
Give people the momentary pleasure in trade for the longterm pain they will snatch at the momentary pleasure in a heartbeat. David Axelrod gets this.
'An example of the 'successful' application of non-socialist policies in the US -'
So socialism is the answer... We have 15 million illegal immigrants in this country skewing the statistic, Bill. Additionally, the statistic that you use defines 'poverty' on income alone. From the source you used:
'The federal poverty line also excludes income other than cash income, especially welfare benefits. Thus, if food stamps and public housing were successfully raising the standard of living for poverty stricken individuals, then the poverty line figures would not shift since they do not consider the income equivalents of such entitlements.'
Sooooo...when you are comparing your income to Bill Gates you are 'poverty stricken', which enables you to get welfare. Another socialism success story! 'Vhat a country. When I was in college and the Navy I undoubtedly qualified as 'poverty stricken'. Then I got a job.
Bottom line; in the USA our 'poverty stricken' are usually in need of a diet.
Go see a dentist!
With the neocon faux conservative president busy socializing and nationalizing the financial system, and growing the national beaurocracy
and budget into something twice the size it was before he got into office,
the question becomes- Will there be much of anything left for the new president to do to finish creating the new world order as envisioned by GWB's big daddy back in 1988?
Among the many promises and pledges in Barack Obama’s multi-million dollar infomercial, one statement really stood out: he announced that he will “rebuild the military.”
But somehow, at the same time, he’s planning a “civilian national security force” that is as powerful and well-funded as the US military: Obama outlines plan for national service:
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”
The Department of Defense’s current base budget is close to $500 billion. So if he meant that promise, he plans on a total defense budget of about a trillion dollars.
What exactly is Obama planning to do with a “civilian force” with such an astronomical level of funding? ... See you at the re-eduaction camp.
A thousand years may scare form a state. An hour may lay it in ruins. -Lord Byron
..you're going to get an education of biblical proportions.
Taxes: an unfettered Congress is going to bring thagt $250K down to your level and you'll gwt hit, on Capital gains, on death tax, on your social security and you'll be wondering where your $$ went.
It'll go to propping up American auto manufaturers i.e. the union workers, who are about broke, while they continue to fail.
It'll go to program after program to redistribute wealth, while no one expands our economy. Those most experienced workers will realize they are working to pay taxes and start the process of hiding behind a 600,000 page tax code.
Growth will recede, and we will chase the job growth from our shore.
Budgets? Go check out the $335 billion dollar farm bill, unfunded, for wealthy farmers and take a look at budgeting fo the next 4 years.
Education? We'll drop more into union educators pockets and get zero in return.
So run, Bob, and cast that vote. This generation needs a lesson and I guess it's time.
What do the republicans in the USA know about socialism?Most certainly much less than I living in Europe where socialism is not a curse or a dirty word but something that influenced our political thinking for more than 125 years .It is not something to be afraid of.Before the Bush administration Europe was regarded by the american people as a friendly continent,with well behaved people,a decent education,health care and lifestyle.
It took Rumsfeld and the neocons to turn around that image.Because Europe was unwilling to obey to the orders of Washington in invading Iraq on the false pretenses used by Bush,suddenly the neocons launched an attack against us,not even chiding the most ridicule measures ,such as relabeling french fries into freedom fries .A complete state of hysteria was created against us,we were called wimps,cowards,blah,blah,blah....
Why?
For refusing to cave in to the lies of the Bush administration concerning the WMD and the so called ties between Saddam and Al Quaida .
We were right then but that has never stopped the right wing idiots in the USA in spouting their filth.Because the UN refused to bow before the pressure of the neocons it was labeled an obsolete institution,a smear campaign was waged against it by the neocons spurred by Bolton.
I sincerely hope your next president will put some energy in reducing the gap between the two continents .There is something to learn from us,like health care and setting high education standards,properly funding those two.
Failing to do s only cause more misery to the poor amongst you.
Losing your job is bad enough,but losing your job,your house,your health insurance is much worse and happening on a daily basisi to many people in the USA.lowering the taxes for the wealthiest does absolutely nothing to address this problem.
Claiming the government has to spend even less,except on military matters is nothing less than a grave insult to the poor people of your country.
And there are many,in Michigan,West Virginia,and many,many states ,lots of people not even being able to walk arouns with teeth in their mouth .
That is the real insult to human beings,not what you call socialism.
“What do the republicans in the USA know about socialism?”
A hell of a lot more than you know about Americans.
“Most certainly much less than I living in Europe where socialism is not a curse or a dirty word but something that influenced our political thinking for more than 125 years”
As has Communism, Nazism, Fascism and Sharia law. You people have found many ways to f-yourselves. Usually dragging us in to it. Socialism does not work. It stagnates a society. It renders you dependent on a bureaucracy.
“It is not something to be afraid of.”
No more then failure and loss of freedom is to be feared. No more than going at the speed of the lowest common denominator. No more then an over arching government that people have abrogated their decision making because they are too lazy to inform themselves is to be feared.
“Before the Bush administration Europe was regarded by the american[sic] people as a friendly continent”
Bull. You are either lying or completely misinformed. I have been going to europe since I was a child and there has been resentment toward the USA because you clowns are jealous of our standing and achievements. Our achievements have been made because we are a society that values the individual and you are one that values the collective. You are pushing Obama because you know he will alter that fundamental aspect of American governance. You are pushing him because you know he will drag us down by perusing the same policies that have stunted you.
“It took Rumsfeld and the neocons to turn around that image.”
Liar. Anti-Americanism has been a popular mental crutch in europe since the eighteenth century. You want to make “America safe for the world”, that’s why you want Obama. You want us to surrender our sovereignty to international organizations. You want us to lose our freedom to the state and then to the super state, just as you have. To go from free and brave to placated and regulated.
“Because Europe was unwilling to obey to the orders of Washington”
Bull. We are used to you not pulling your own weight.
“suddenly the neocons launched an attack against us,”
You poor victims.
“such as relabeling french fries into freedom fries”
When I was 8 years old we visited the Vimy memorial because the man who I was named after, my grandmothers brother was killed there. In the cab ride back my grandmother was talking to my mother about him and the cab driver turned around and said “What’s the matter, did we forget to thank you today”? That is the “friendship” that existed before Bush. “Freedom fries”? Don’t be such a crybaby. (As if you could stop.)
“We were right then but that has never stopped the right wing idiots in the USA in spouting their filth.”
In other words WE should have done what WE were told. Sorry, you do not have a say in American foreign policy. Right or wrong: It is ours.
“Because the UN refused to bow before the pressure of the neocons it was labeled an obsolete institution”
It IS an obsolete institution that exists to protect people who commit genocide as it has done in the Sudan, Rwanda and Kosovo. It only condemns the only genuine democracy in the middle east. Oops, that’s not true anymore; the other genuine democracy is the one that you passive-aggressively fought to prevent: Iraq.
“I sincerely hope your next president will put some energy in reducing the gap between the two continents”
I sincerely loathe you and everything you stand for and I sincerely do not want to get any closer then we already are. You are like a tic on our ass…that’s close enough.
“There is something to learn from us,like health care and setting high education standards,properly funding those two.”
You are only able to fund them because you mooch off the UK, EU and us. There isn’t anyone big enough for us to mooch off of.
“Losing your job is bad enough,”
How would you know?
“And there are many,in Michigan,West Virginia,and many,many states ,lots of people not even being able to walk arouns with teeth in their mouth .”
I would love to do the same for you… Especially because you don’t know what you are talking about.
I could never thank above person ever enough for posting ,the perfect illustration of what I mean when I say the neocons are irrational and paranoiac.None of the arguments does make sense or is even remotely logical.
Thank you again....
'the perfect illustration of what I mean when I say the neocons are irrational and paranoiac.'
Gee, not exactly a rebuttal to anything I wrote, now is it?
'None of the arguments does make sense or is even remotely logical.'
It was a line by line deconstruction and rebuttal of your idiotic, ignorance born effluence.
'Thank you again....'
I haven't done you any favors, just enabled you to continue wasting your life obsessing about us. I would invite you to obsess about your own country but we both know it is too boring... you never DO anything... Socialism strikes again.
Oct 30th, 2008 - 18:38:12
'the perfect illustration of what I mean when I say the neocons are irrational and paranoiac.'
Said once. Repeated here, appropriatly
@Fix your own crappy country Tonny -
'I have been going to europe since I was a child and there has been resentment toward the USA because you clowns are jealous of our standing and achievements.'
No, the resentment is because of the stupidity and lack of manners shown by Americans when in other countries.
Also, since you keep visiting Europe, you are obviously desperate for a change from your home country and its stuntified attitudes - or haven't you realised this as you wallow about in your neocon paranoia and irrationality ?
Well stated, Sir.
nobody wants usa the way it is ,it will take you 100years to wake up give unemployed money instead of food stampsa is 100 years behind many countrys.and here comes uncle scrooge mcain throwing insults-vote for me-ill win this war,ill throw insults at obama-you will vote for me-yeahright.
Said once. Repeated here, appropriatly[sic]
Idiots of a feather..
'No, the resentment is because of the stupidity and lack of manners shown by Americans when in other countries.'
Meanwhile the dimwitted savage yobs that you send us leave a trail of stiffed bartenders and pools of puke wherever they go. Please... You aren't fooling anyone, we have seen your cheap, soccer obsessed chavs passed out in their own p*ss all over our major cities. Thank god the exchange rate is getting back to normal so they can't come over.
'Also, since you keep visiting Europe, you are obviously desperate for a change from your home country'
Nope, just putting flowers on the graves of my relatives that had their lives cut short defending your petulant, ungrateful, jumped up societies from your latest self-imposed conflagrations.
Bill, And who decides what poverty is and what level of income poverty sarts? Government? That is exactly like the government saying a person is rich. By who's strandards? So-called poverty in this country is wealth to another. Its not the governments damn busniess to tell anyone how much is too much and who is rich and who is poor-PERIOD! Its how the country was founded. No guaranties, only opportunity.
@Jim, go fix tonnys crappy country
Do try to be original - I know that is difficult for an American, but you have tried to find insulting phrases just like this in the past. Obviously you just have a collection of catch phrases which you have stored away for regurgitation whenever you cannot win a discussion with rational argument.
It is very unfortunate you haven't picked up better manners and some rationality in your visits to a more civilised continent
...Meanwhile the dimwitted savage yobs that you send us leave a trail of stiffed bartenders and pools of puke wherever they go....
I would prefer young people to be doing this than being trained to invade countries and kill innocent people.
....Nope, just putting flowers on the graves of my relatives that had their lives cut short...
At least we let you do this - I doubt if many Iraquis get the chance to put flowers on the graves of their relatives killed by invading Americans or can even go outside their homes without the risk of being shot at
'Do try to be original - I know that is difficult for an American, '
So Americans are unoriginal...
' but you have tried to find insulting phrases just like this in the past.'
Seeing as I have posted them it looks like I have found them, idiot.
'Obviously you just have a collection of catch phrases which you have stored away for regurgitation whenever you cannot win a discussion with rational argument.'
Pot/kettle..
'It is very unfortunate you haven't picked up better manners and some rationality in your visits to a more civilised continent'
Keep up the overcompensation if it makes you feel better, but the fact is I don't care who you vote for (If you are allowed to ever vote for PM) because it wont have any effect on me. You DO care who we vote for because it WILL have an effect on you. That is exactly why Americans need to preserve their sovereignty and the best way of doing that is voting McCain.
After watching Obama run for President since he was elected into office, the one thing I noticed from the start was his definition of RICH...
In the beginning- $1,000,000.00
In the 2nd year- $750,000.00
In the race- $500,000.00
In the election- $250,000.00
In the ads- $200,000.00
His VP choice- $150,000.00
Expectation:
1st 4 months- $98,000.00
1st year- $50,000.00
Mid Term- $45,000.00
End result- $35,000.00
This is a moving target and with a Dem congress to support him or hold him steady this is the real world projection of Wealth and Taxes by Obama
Socialism: A progressive political system that takes the power away from wealth creators and gives it to wealth distributors. Wealth distributors are typically a class of highly trained government bureaucrats who are being watched by a class of political commissars, who, in turn, are being watched by a class of secret police, all of whom are banded together by shared progressive morals. Because progressive morals are relative by definition, a certain measure of absolute propaganda is necessary to encourage collectivism and discourage counter revolution. Since such propaganda is delivered through mass media, arts, and schools, a degree of ideological monopoly, uniformity, and censorship is also required in those fields. The resulting mass enthusiasm creates a vibrant state-subsidized culture, leading to great economic successes and technological breakthroughs, e.g., North Korea.
Barack Obama has advised kids this Halloween that went to too many houses and have too much candy to redistribute it to those with less. 'When you spread the candy around, it's good for everybody.' he confirmed.
'After all of the treats have been collected at the end of the night, children will be required to bring their candy to central collection locations in their communities. There, government contractors — most likely ACORN workers who need work between elections — will collect the candy from the children and record their information. Then they will count all of the candy up and divide it equally amongst all of the children in the area. The treats will then be redistributed to everybody, including those who stayed home that night'
Your children will think it’s unfair that they did all the work but don’t get to reap the full rewards of their efforts. After you finish wiping their tears, you can use the occasion as a teachable moment and tell your children what they just experienced is an example of how socialism works. Then they’ll understand.
Before you vote, consider this story:
You and I live on a desert island. You produce peanut butter and I produce jelly. We both enjoy eating our products, but we would really enjoy eating peanut butter and jelly. So, to increase total happiness, I take some of your peanut butter, mix it with my jelly, and have therefore increased the total happiness of society. Your loss of peanut butter has been vastly mitigated by my enjoying peanut butter and jelly. Your wealth has been spread. This is simple mathematics.
Now we are joined by a third person. In order to ensure full employment on the island, I give the third person a uniform and a badge (and a percentage of your peanut butter) to take your peanut butter whenever I choose. Because I have the positive right to your peanut butter (due to increased societal happiness), neither my officer nor I need to ask for your permission -- nor in any way do we need be grateful for your contribution. It is our entitlement and it is your obligation.
We are now joined by a fourth person. I turn my jelly business over to him -- and to sustain the island, my officer collects peanut butter and jelly and brings it to me.
A fifth person arrives and develops a method of making more jelly in less time. However, this is very dangerous for three reasons: First, the island itself has a right to not have its resources exploited. Secondly, what would people on other islands think of us if we were to consume so much jelly? And most importantly, a second jelly producer would harm the ability of the existing jelly producer to a fair wage. And so, my officer approaches the second producer and explains that, in order to guarantee the safety of his jelly, he needs an island license to conduct his business. And since the newcomer cannot prove that his jelly will always be safe to eat, he is denied a license.
A sixth person arrives from another island with a barrel of jelly. My officer turns him back to sea with his jelly. The possibility of dumping this jelly on our island would harm our only jelly producer, and must not be permitted. While I welcome free trade, it must also be fair trade. And this is most definitely not fair.
Thirty-four people then wash ashore, increasing the island's population to forty. The island's food producers attempt to hire them in exchange for a cup of food per day. However, this is worker exploitation, and my sense of economic justice demands that each worker instead be paid three cups of food per day. The producers then have the audacity to hire only half of the new residents at this fair wage, leaving the other half unemployed. To address this issue, I (and my uniformed officer) impose an additional fair tax on the richest 5% of the island's population, which happen to be the greedy and exploitative peanut-butter and jelly 'producers' who in fact do nothing but reap unearned windfall profits on the backs of working people.
Sixty more people show up, and now there are 100 inhabitants on the island. These sixty are very poor, ill, and have not eaten in weeks. So, in order to protect them, I order the unionization of the island's 17 employees, which results in a labor contract mandating payment of six cups of food per day, 45 paid holidays, strictly-enforced job definitions, a no-layoff clause, and a just arbitration process to settle any grievances that might arise.
And I raise the top tax rate to 75% in order to pay for my expanded People's Police, comprised of the latest wave of migration.
For inexplicable reasons, the capitalists then reduce production. They are, quite clearly, traitors. And having been exposed as Enemies of The Island, they are set off on a raft to reeducation facilities -- wherever such facilities might happen to be.
At this point, the people are quite upset. They want a solution. They realize that our half-measures have not sufficed. So, in order to satisfy the cries of the people, The Island nationalizes and assumes direct control of all production of peanut butter and jelly. Half of the island's population now joyously works, and the other half performs police services. In the peanut fields, they gleefully sing, 'Let's boast to the world about this year's bumper peanut harvest!'
An election is held, and 100% of the people elect me President for Life of the new Democratic People's Island Republic.
The other islands are so impressed with our success that they cheer the arrival of the People's Police to liberate them as well.
As the chains of oppression are broken on each island, the People's Police listens to the working class as they identify members of the exploitative class: They, and their families, are shown the only justice that is fitting for such parasites.
As proof of our success, there is never again any dissent, anywhere. All infections have been eradicated.
***
The above tale is a fiction of what can happen to several hundred people. It is not what I would personally want to see. Instead, I yearn for this to happen to millions, if not hundreds of millions, of people.
Imagine: Our entire planet, in unity, striving for this permanent and irreversible state of justice. The leaders shall guide with their wisdom, the workers shall endlessly toil for all, and our enemies -- millions and millions of enemies -- shall be silenced forever. And yes, I do mean silenced by death -- for total extermination is the only permanent silence.
To interfere with the will of the people is to label oneself as an enemy of humanity. And there can be no mercy for enemies of humanity.
Please remember this when deciding who to vote for.
Unfortunately, we lack a candidate who can be so candid with us. Instead, we must strive for second-best. Listen to them carefully, and see whose vernacular comes closest to mimicking the above story.
That is who you should want as your leader.
'If you are allowed to ever vote for PM)'
That phrase alone shows your ignorance of the differences between our political systems, an ignorance which you appear very able to carry into every other subject you comment upon
It would appear that some people have waaaay too much time on their hands that they're now writing short stories here. It won't be fiction Tues. when McCain and Palin get their asses kicked.
It looks like Parker must be on the dole. W/O imagination one cannot succeed. The story was great and pointed out the TRUTH. It is only those like Parker who want a hand out. Funny thing is that Parker will most likely be taxed by Obama. Just today the DNC announced the level is down from $150,000.00 to $120,000.00 as the definition of rich. 4 months from now it will be at $98,000.00 and 6months after that under Obama it will be lowered still as he has not accounted for his spending desires, not the Dem congress spending agenda.
I would be in the bracket for higher taxes, you loser, and I don't mind one bit. We need better schools, better health for lower income people, more funding for better roads, environment, etc. McCain's tax plan is all wrong as most of his so-called policies, but he is so involved in attacking Obama, one hardly knows what the hell he stands for. If he even knows himself. McCain's immoral past and his erratic behavior is enough cause for worry that he could make sound decisions as President, and with Palin waiting anxiously in the wings to take over, we all have cause for worry.
This left wing nut case must work for Acorn or as Obamas maid (Highly paid for what?). Obviously she has no concept of money and taxes. Or is this the Belgium socialist ranting again?
Any person who works for their money and earns it (not like most liberals)should be able to keep it. All socialist goverment services are already TAXED and those making $120,000.00 (New Den Rich def) are paying for it in spades.
It happens to be 250,000 in case you don't understand. Anyone who is fortunate to have that salary shouldn't object to paying a little more in taxes. Apparently you aren't in that catagory, so what are you complaining about. And leave it to the right to attack anyone who doesn't agree with someone else's statement.
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Americans wouldn't know a Socialist...Oct 30th, 2008 - 03:13:51
if one pissed in their watery beer. While you turkeys bandy the word around, out in the real world, Obama is a rightwinger. As for McCain, what can be said about a washed up never-was.
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