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Shock and grief as families face aftermath of US school shooting
Apr 17, 2007, 13:19 GMT
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Older Talkback
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I think it was awful what happened and I personally wouldn't know what
to do if such a thing ever happened at my school. What scares me the most is
that I don't think that my school has any type of plan for this sort of thing. I'm not upset with administrators at VT because I know it's hard to respond in this sort of thing. After all, the shooter was carrying guns that can be easily consealed. My personal opinion is that schools aren't safe enough for children or adults. Come on America! The children who are in schools now are the future whether or not you like it! Are you gonna help protect your future? I know I want mine as safe as possible!
The pictures of the Korean I saw nearly twenty-four hours ago and his letters of justification of this event I found on the net. A ridiculous American U.S.-gunmen [call it police or whatever You like]closed into a sport coach dress with several pistols put in his leather belt bends itself half-kneeling over an intact Korean[
the Korean was not hurted at all] lying on the Virgina-Tech lawn. This American super-hero shot dead then the Korean student without any need of self-defence the Korean student lying on his belly on the Virgina-Tech lawn from behind[distance =
5 centimetres !!!!!].
Carry a gun, I do all the time. Screw the permit....Save yourself and carry a small revolver, 22 caliber revolvers 'DO NOT JAM' and are very easy to use with a bullet call a 'STINGER'. This type of bullet is very effective.. My Girlfriend now carries this type of gun..It's light with no kick.
Save yourself and your Tree of Life
Hey Old School - move to a civilised country and you'd have no need for your weapons
use metal detectors at the entrance of all schools.
These incidents will happen over and over again as long as weapons are readily available. Some people are blaming the university while the ones to blame are the gun-friendly republicans. I hope not to hear statements from the White House about how much they are praying for the victims because it will make me puke. They are the ones with blood on their hands. They are the ones responsible, not only for what happened in VT but also for the daily shooting victims all over the US.
Before suggesting 'moving to a civilized country' consider that these things do happen in all the developed countries.
Canadian gun laws have been mentioned a number of times since this tragedy yesterday since many consider Canada to be a model for control of violence. The types of weapons used yesterday are legally available in Canada and many other first world countries. Just last fall at Dawson College a gunman shot 20 people, killing one. The weapon he used (a shouldered carbine) was potentially deadlier than the pistols used yesterday. The reasons that the Canadian event was less deadly had not to do with gun laws but due to very rapid police response, and (I don't mean to be blunt) poor tactics and aim on the part of the Canadian shooter.
Blaming the availability of firearms -IN THIS CASE- is a cop out and ignores many realities and issues.
What happened had nothing to do with guns. I'm a gun owner, and was raised by a military father who was a licensed National Rifle Association gun safety instructor. I'd never shoot someone unless it was in self defense, but then again, I'm stable. It's not the guns, it's our younger generation's inability to deal with real life and it's disappointments and let-downs. Something is happening in our society that's creating young people that are getting more and more violent each decade. Something needs to be done or the next 'upset kid' is going to plant a bomb or two (or three)in his/her school instead of using a 9mm bullet. Bombs would do vastly more damage to human life and limb than a gun, think about it. And while you do, think about the victim's and their families, positive energy focused in their direction is what they need right now.
What's wrong with our kids?
I'll tell you what is wrong with your kids .They live in a country where you can buy weapons eveywhere,in which it is considered normal to see at least ten people get killed a day on TV but where sex is considered obscene .In Europe there is a strict gun control and if ever something like this horrible incident would occur,the governments here are quick to respond by tightening the laws even stricter and making it even more difficult to obtain one .Here you will find nobody ,absolutely nobody to claim there will be less killings when more guns are available .Statistics and common sense prove us right .
Then just make sure you stay out of our country!!! U.S.
The figures make the case -
America with about 300 million population = over 10,000 gun related murders a year.
UK (with strict gun control and only a very few policemen armed) population 60 million = around 165 gun related deaths a year
First of all my prayers with the families of the victims of this horrible tragedy. There nothing more horrific than sudden end to those beautiful lives that were lost yesterday. These young kids were our future and those professors the architects of that future.
For god's sake NRA, please come to your senses. No Guns means Nu Lunatics with guns. Yes there would be lunatics but at least they will not lunatics with weapons. These people who scream about protecting the cosntitutioanl rights are the folks who fail to see the reality and see the change world. Do you think if our forefathers were writing the constitution today, they will making gun owning a right?? Thier motivation for this was based on the times when we feared forgien powers taking over our country. They did not mean to gaurantee the right to hunt with automatic weapons or 'shoot in the yard and drag'em to the porch'.
The sad is part is NRA is ooposed any sensible control on gun ownership. Now what is wrong with
- Limiting the numbers of guns one can buy in a certain time period
- Limting the ammunition
- Putting serial numbers or some other tracking info on the ammunition
- Waiting period for first time gun owners
- Limitations on concealed weapons
- Bakcground checks for gun shows too.
- Banning automatic weapons
The list goes on.......
NRA is not about gun rights, it is about profiting from guns. It is about being able to sell guns to anyone regardless of their motives. It is about selling arms to aferican nations so that they can kill each other...NRA is about making money over dead bodies of innocent victims.
Only a low-life from NRA can suggesst that one way to avoid Virginia Tech would have been to give guns to all students to defend themselves.
Stop spreading misinformation that gun controls do not work...They do. Murder rate in European countries is much lower. even lower if we were to consider innocent victims...
How right you are - gun control IS possible, with a strong government and a sensible population.
However, I've just seen a TV (in England) which illustrates how the debate on these matters is stifled in america - radio stations do not raise the subject for discussion with their listeners because as soon as they do 'rabid members of the NRA organise mass phone-ins to swamp our lines'.
Similarly, the politicians are frightened to take up the case because of pressure from the gun tooting elements.
Well sensible americans - its up to you to stand up to these gun fixated loonies.
Just a proof of how demanted these wingnuts are, Texas recently passed a law extending immunity for people using deadly force.
'The law extends a person's right to stand their ground beyond the home to vehicles and workplaces, allowing the reasonable use of deadly force,'
The law takes no account of the other peron's ability to inflict harm. It allows use of deadly force on say someone netering a property illgelly....so now texans can shoot not only in the yard but pretty much anyhwere and drag the victim to thier porch, thier car or thier workplace...well done you idiots..
Oh the hallmark of a civlized society !!!
The main difference between Virginia Tech and Dawson College was the police had the guts to enter the building and confront the gunman. Virginia police simply hid outside behind their cars. Shame on them.
Civilized is blaming the lunatic and finding a cure for the lunacy, NOT, the inanimate object in that lunatic's hand. If I hadn't been armed with a pistol, the man with a knife that broke into my home wouldn't have ran, he could have raped and murdered me and my wife! He ran away instead. Kudos to Tori Ohno for asking the right question!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE KIDS?! What weapon could they (he) have used instead? And what's wrong with a society that doesn't hold the individual responsible for their actions? Instead, you blame a piece of metal?! Take that metal away, and pipe bombs WILL be used next time. Even back in the 60's we knew how to build them. I wonder what kind of explosives the kids nowadays can build? This whole argument is as ridiculous as blaming alcoholism on the fact you're allowed to buy beer once you turn 21! Quit quibbling and pray for the victims and their families. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. Inanimate objects DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. A PERSON has to be HOLDING IT.
Sorry forgot to add that I am not surprised at Texas...Dubya is from texas..
Texas tends of 50 years behind a typical civilized society. Some xamples
- Weren't they defending racial seggregration as 'our way of lie'
- Weren;t they defending the ban on inter-racial marriages as 'our way of life'..
when is the rotting corpse that is charlton (KKK) heston going to raise its
decaying head and have a NRA march in the College. Will he wait for the funerals as he usually does. It is crazy to have so many stupid people in charge of fire arms. Even at the Height of the struggle in the north of Ireland
there was never as many gun deaths as the average american city.
In Ireland The army, very few special branch Gardai (Police) and farmers
are the only people permitted to own a gun. Farmers and gun club members are allowed to own a gun with a licence which is rigourously researched prior to
issue. They can only use their gun (shot gun or 22 rifle) for sport hunting.
If any of them were to turn their weapon on an intruder in thier home they would face a life sentence in prison.
The nra loons and the american government have created an atmosphere of paranoia
and convince people that they are not responcible if they do not own a gun.
I fear that these tragidies are going to become far more frequent and deadly.
One other point would the media have mentioned the ethnic background of the american kid who did this if he had been of european decent. I think not.
More paranoia, more calls to close the borders, just what the president ordered.
I can't believe the police would stay outside fully armed and protected with flak jackets while students were yards away desperately trying to defend themselves with desks..and dying in droves. This is unbelieveable.
People are so fragile, and inch of doubt and they break. Weakness is promoted in schools and such because the tutors are not aware enough of a students mentality. Events like this will continue unless someone notices what really goes on, Columbine was a shocking event of which i will never fully understand. Living in England myself, the risk is of course very unlikely. But people are so volatile, and i wish this could be realised by the authorities.
'Young Mother'
Why are we americans alwasy in suhc a rush to blame the authorities when things go wrong. We never fix teh root cuase of the problem. All you people blaming the police for not doing anything, you have no idea.
- How the hell were the cops supposed to know that there is anotehr shooting goin on?
- How do you vacate 2600 acres and 100 building based on an incident which based on the available information was a domestic incident.
- By your logic whenevr there is a shotting in any city or town, the whole city or twon should be warned and vacated.
- Even if they were to warn people, what should have told them to do? Stay indoors? Go someplace safe? Where? No one knew hwere the gunman was.
Why do not we do things the american way now ...Let us start a 'war on campus killings' !!!! God save this country from lunatics like you.
How would gun control would have prevented this? This guy had it planned down to which doors he would chain shut!
Drugs are illegal and it's easier for a kid to get pot than alcohol. Prohibition really works don't it? Restrictive gun laws would have simply forced him to get his gun illegally, and one of his guns had the serial number filed off so we don't really know how he got it anyway.
Gun laws will not work here because there are too many guns to control. All gun laws do is make a criminal's job description safer. Defenceless vitims - whoopie!
Look at DC or LA, most restrictive gun laws in the country with the highest crime rates. Why? Because otherwise law abiding citizens become criminals when they attempt to defend themselves.
One gun in the hands of one responsible person would have cut this massacre short and saved many lives.
HEartless,
Your name says it all !!!
Well if you can not control guns then ban them. By you rlogic, we shoudl war on drugs and make drugs legal. Let us do the same for prostitution as no control ever works.
Gun control do not work as NRA will not let them work. If we had uniform gun control laways acroos the country, gun control will work. It will make it tougher for 18 years olds to get guns..
By your logic there are only 2 ways..no guns at all or every american shoul dhave a gun...no need for the cops...
Oh yeah, gun control would have prevented this. Make it illegal to have a gun, that's all. This guy obviously cared about the law and never would have done anything to break it. Therefore the problem is solved.
While they are at it someone should make a law that mass murder is illegal. See, problem solved.
'It is all so easy'
By your logic, why should murder be illgeal? See problem solved..!!! what an idiot..
To the croonies of the NRA doing their homework and pressuring the public opininon this ;guncontrol works ,figures are there to prove it ,compare violence in Europe and the US and the statistics will blow up in tyour face .We all know how the gunlobby blackmails politicians,radio-stations and the rest of the media .It is now time for an anti-gun lobby to be erected and pressure the politicians for an effective ban on all weapons .No more no less .Dont listen to the morons saying guns save lifes.Reality proves differently.You have a moral obligation to the victims of gunslingers .Organize opposition to NRA and use their tactics .At least you will have the truth working for you .
Sams-
How would gun control help?
Would gun laws have stopped him from getting a gun?
Obviously the murder laws kept him from killing people so I'm sure he would have respected the gun laws.
As I see it in this case gun control helped this guy by ensuring that his victims were unarmed!
And to answer your questions yes - prohibition serves no purpose but to put people in jail. Drugs, guns and even sex. I don't own a gun, my job makes me piss in a cup and I have never even thought of being unfaithful to my wife.
Guns and drugs are inanimate objects. And what this guy did with his guns was already illegal. On the drug subject things that someone may do while under the influence or to support their habit that invade another's rights are already illegal.
Try blaming the sick bastard who commited this horrific crime, not the tools with which he did it because these same tools in the hands of another could have limited the damage.
Jesus I wish SP4 and heartless had been there.
Not so they could have saved anyone, but so they could have caught a couple of bullets themselves and give us all a rest from their rightwing rants.
You two idiots and all your neo-con croneys and charlton heston and his kkk
can all isolate yourselves from the rest of the world and as long as you never come out I guarantee nobody will ever go looking for you to bother you.
Hey bring all your guns and shoot each other that would cure most of the worlds ills.
hey brian
If we'd have been there we might have done something. And if we died trying we still would have done something. Unlike a liberal pussy like you.
' In Europe there is a strict gun control and if ever something like this horrible incident would occur,the governments here are quick to respond by tightening the laws even stricter '
Are you mentally retarded or just insane ? ' Europe ' is not a ' state ' it a collection of many different countries , many different cultures , many different Dogmas .
Think carefully Biggot Boy . Do you know what the word ' Beslan ' means ? Have you ever heard the word ' Ireland ' ?
Kosovo . What does that word mean to you ? Have you been paying attention or are you just blinded by your Superiority ?
And many many more examples . Wake up .
There is no hope for the world because of people like you and me . You people are so blinded by your blood thirsty hate you will ALWAYS see a target to blame/hate/kill/
Thoi-
The issue here is personal responsibility. These tards we argue against in vain refuse to hold the killer responsible for his actions. It's the fault of the gun or those who allowed him to get the gun. By that same twisted logic nobody should be allowed to legally carry or for that matter own a gun because they are not responsible enough. We must instead depend on the government to protect us while the fact is that police investigate crime rather than prevent it.
Sick isn't it?
I am still waiting for one single reaction from the NRA posters to explain why if guns bring safety,why oh why are the number of people killed by guns in the USA at least tenfold our figures.Thec ridiculous arguments are an insult to the memory of all those killed by guns in the USA.
What a shame that a situation like this terrible tragedy lowers people to name calling and thinking that they have all the answers. If you weren't on the scene, I suggest you find something useful to do with your time than sit in criticism of those who were there, and were probably doing the best they knew how in this situation. As someone stated, these things don't go by the books, and the authorities have to make the best decisions they can at the time. Some of you should have some humility or shame at the very least!!!!
I agree with Jen completely, and think it should give some people food for thought, if they are capable of it!!!
What is almost as horrifying about this senseless slaughter is the media circus. I am surprised that Wolf Blitzer of CNN hasn't tried to hook the perpetrator as an Al-Qaeda operative working for Iranian intelligence agencies. The US has become a nut house and needs quarantining.
What a thought! Take away the guns and give everyone their own Thorazine drip. That should calm down the gun happy war mongers. Doesn't Cheney sit on the board of directors of a major drug company? He'd make billions.
'Not so they could have saved anyone, but so they could have caught a couple of bullets themselves and give us all a rest from their rightwing rants.'
Brian, for the billionth time grow up you repugnant child.
' am still waiting for one single reaction from the NRA posters to explain why if guns bring safety'
We don't have to explain anything to you tonny from irrelevant goddam belgium.
Thanks for clinically piling on a tragedy to try and score some cheap political points you piece of crap.
The caliber of the low-class comments on this site are mind boggling. Respect for a different opinion isn't something you would understand. This was a tragic act of violence that can be blamed on one person who was apparently very disturbed. Whether or not gun control would or would not help, but I don't think arming every person out there is the answer. Especially when I read of all the 'hate' coming from some of you. I don't think I'd care of be in your presence.!!!@!!
TO JEN
It is too bad that there is not a site for intelligent discourse. The web, as it sits, is open to, and has been over run with the mindless drivel of non-thinkers. The garbage you read here come from the type of people that Cheney loves. Wave the flag and they'll come running. Straight into the pits of hell. God Bless America. No one else does. If you find a site that screens out mental midgets, please, please let me know.
I'll be more than happy to as soon as I find one!!!!
' Wave the flag and they'll come running. Straight into the pits of hell. God Bless America. No one else does'
So much for 'intelligent discourse'... Nice bumper sticker mentality 'Franck'.
I'm concerned now... Maybe there will be racial problems between Asians and Americans now... It's scary don't you think? I don't think it should matter if the shooter was Asian or not. Don't you think it's useless information to release that? What does the media what us to think?!
To the Belgian fellow:
Belgian firearms laws as recently are not all that more stringent than many jurisdictions in the US. I do not know offhand if Onkelinx got her reforms passed, but as of 2005 there were more than half a million registered firearms in Belgium of which about 5% of which were considered 'Military' firearms. In a country that is mostly urban and has a pop of about 10 Mill thats quite a few. That does not include the 2 million legitimate unregistered firearms that the Belgian government believes are in circulation. Weapons that are considerably more (and I struggle to find the right word here) dangerous / effective / appropriate in a school shooting situation were (in 2005) available unregistered to anyone with ID.
The firearms used in September in Quebec and yesterday in Virginia are legally available in Belgium and most of the rest of the EU. This shooting could have easily have happened in Belgium; at the very least Belgian law would have had no effect.
Now, I am not nessesarily saying that a complete ban on firearms is nessesarily a bad thing or that it would not reduce the overall homicide rate. As a 'solution' however it completely ignores the actual situation. The number of firearms already in circulation down in the US is staggering and a complete ban on importation and manufacture would not really alter the supply significantly. Americans as a whole beleive that defence of self and property is a valid use of deadly force and that preparing for that possibility is a legitimate action. Confiscation is unpalatable by more than just the gun nuts and would be a huge and expendsive undertaking. There is a tremendous area of the US where firearm ownership is a legitimate and ocassionally nessesary part of living in rural areas. Confiscation of property without compensation and prohibition of firearms also has (for good or for ill) some SERIOUS legal difficulties in the US. The portions of the US Constitution that garuntee those 'rights' do not have a legal mechanism to permit change. Top that off with the fact that the largest numbers of casualties in a single school rampage in the US were not with firearms at all. Explosives and fire were used before firearms (Bath Massacre, 18 May 1927).
US firearms laws are not perfect but reactionary 'fixes' of the sort suggested here are not viable solutions and certainly have a questionable ratio of benefit vs. cost.
The reasons for America's issues with violence and firearm violence are as complicated as they are serious. While wealthy, America has some serious issues with inequity, class and race struggle, education, health care, lack of retirement security, cost of living vs wages, lack of affordable housing, official corruption, substance abuse and a relatively recent legacy of frontier law. These are all things that are known to be issues with crime.
Now, I find the mass facination that Americans have with firearms and violence to be just as disturbing as the next guy and frankly am not that keen on the idea of an inalienable right to arms. Nonetheless, I find not a lot of credibility in many of the hasty fixes proposed.
After having expressed my opinion on this site, I was pleased to read that a lot of people share my disgust for weapons. As it turns out, I am from the same country as Toni (Belgium) but live currently in the US. I am a little bit disturbed that LOUIS, who is throwing numbers and stats in the mix as if he is an expert in Belgian firearms, fails to mention his source(s). I am not an expert myself, but I never saw a place in Belgium where you could walk in and buy a gun. We will never know if the VirTech drama would have taken place if stricter gun control would of have been in place. There is, however, a quantum leap between getting a gun from a store and getting one from an illegal circuit.
Jen,
I am sorry dear but unfortunately folks here are not the intelligent breed you are looking for. Just a bumch of idiots here...
The fact is a foreign national came to America and killed our citizens.
Tonny, the problem is your friends won't stay out of OUR country!
If there were not people being rude to other people and stop picking on them then people would not freak out and go on a killing spree.
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