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Raid on Ron Paul silver dollar maker
By M&C US News Nov 17, 2007, 20:47 GMT
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Older Talkback
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Who are you to say it's 'illegal to spend them?' Since when is it illegal to use other forms of money than the U.S. dollar for trades? You are convicting people who use this money for transactions without a trial.
So, if I you trade me a Ron Paul Liberty Dollar for my computer, you're saying you would be breaking the law? Nonsense.
You got to be kidding me. You think trading one thing for another is illegal when both has some kind of value and both sides agree willingly. Proof is look at the prices they sell for now. I'm sorry but telling me anything doesn't have a value even air has value and can be bought sold and traded without the governments help to jack up the price or increase inflation. Maybe you should figure out what happens to money in your bank account as mor emoney is being printed. It's a little harder to inflate a currency that is actually backed by something. But thats not even the point we should be free to trade anything for anything if we see it has value i dont need a nanny saying something is a bad idea.
Apparently, all of the OTHER people making coins for use in the United States like American Mint, Coinable.com,Osbornecoin.com and every single casino in America don't break the law when they make coins. Apparently only Liberty Mint does that somehow. Funny thing too, they're also the only company to put Dr. Ron Paul's likeness on their coin. No relationship exists between Dr. Paul and Mr. NotHaus (except that Mr. NotHaus admires Dr. Paul's views on fiat currency) but let us look at what was confiscated - two tons of coins bearing Dr. Paul's image. That's 64,000 pieces of political speech saying citizens shouldn't be robbed by the government - that their money should have value that can't be destroyed by inflation. If you had one, think how many times you might show it to a friend and say - If you voted for Dr. Paul maybe all our money could be like this someday. Can he change it by himself? No, but if we put him in office other people will run on his platform. Besides, the ones that want to stay in office would help him anyway - they'd know we'd vote them out if they didn't.
Just sit back and really think about what is going on here, and you will be shocked. ponder it for a few minutes, then you will know who is in control of your life. After that you will know why Ron Paul is so important to the average american, even if they cant even see it.
www.ronpaul2008.com
I'd like to know what actual laws were allegedly broken.
As an aside, the name 'von NotHaus' strikes me as strange. Are there any names in German that capitalize a letter in the middle? Also, I understand 'not' means emergency, like in 'Not Ausgang' (emerg. exit), etc.
Any thoughts?
What nation, or planet, are you from?
If you get caught trying to transact business with phoney currency, and someones acid-trip silver coin would qualify, you can actually get arrested for this.
But, by all means, don't take ol SP4's opinionated, uneducated, neocon point of view, walk right into a bank with a roll of these and try to get currency. When they tell you to stay right there...that's the cue to start crapping your pants and calling your lawyer!
Jesus!.....
Ron Paul's campaign has no association with that company. He has never endorsed them. I know of only one time Ron Paul said anything about them. A reporter asked him if he wanted people to contribute Liberty Dollars to his campaign. He said no.
When The Hyper Inflation Hits In 2008 Ron Paul's Monetary Stand Will be Vindicated.
When The Food Riots Start And The Disinters Are Labeled As Domestic Terrorists; You Will See The True Measure Of Our Freedom As They Are Taken Away Without Habeas Corpus.
The Executive Orders Are In Place And Only Need Enforcement In The Event Of An 'Emergency'.
We May Attack Iran As A distraction from This Problem Which will Result In War With Russia. WAR WILL COME TO AMERICAN SHORES WITH FIRE LEADING THE WAY.
A Ron Paul Presidency Is The Only Option To Avert Such Disasters.
Save The Republic; Vote Ron Paul.
RE SP4
If you get caught trying to transact business with phony currency, and someones acid trip silver coin would qualify, ,you could actually get arrested for this.
Wake up SP4
people all over the world mint and trade anniversary, commemoration, and special occasion coins and they are freely and legally traded for cash.
'SP4: uh....earth to Ron Paul Moonies....Nov 17th, 2007 - 23:08:20
What nation, or planet, are you from?
If you get caught trying to transact business with phoney currency, and someones acid-trip silver coin would qualify, you can actually get arrested for this.'
SP4 are you retarded? Does anyone say anything about going to the bank and cashing these in? What are you a ghoon of Becks or Oreilly's or what? These people buy precious metal pressed into coin shapes and then save them because they are actually worth something, unlike the fed res dollar. If they trade it for something then that's it, they are TRADING it for something. It's ok if you buy Disney Dollars and spend them because they are set 1 to 1 with the dollar which means they are just as worthless as the dollars that bought them. The Fed doesn't like the idea that we can own precious metals again. The dollar crashes, all the gold gets confiscated, we go to the Amero. Maybe you can start to see the writing on the walls...Your one of the sheep that we're busting our butts trying to save from your own government. You'll thank us some day.
Ronpaul2008.com
For the first time SP4 has posted something that is more that 10% truth:
'But, by all means, don't take ol SP4's opinionated, uneducated, neocon point of view'
And I actually agree with him...
****************As an aside, the name 'von NotHaus' strikes me as strange. Are there any names in German that capitalize a letter in the middle?*******
dude, 'von' is like 'of' in English. Bernard von Nothaus is literally 'Bernard OF Nothaus' Kinda like 'da' in italian, y'know, Leonardo DA Vinci.
I wasn't commenting on 'von', but 'NotHaus', capisce? :-)
While there are a few 'Nothauses' around, I can find no 'NotHaus' and definitely no 'von Nothaus' (with either H) except Bernard.
In the United States
The U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1, states, in part:
No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ...
There is no provision in the Constitution delegating authority to Congress to make anything legal tender, other perhaps than the broad authority over federal enclaves in Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 17, or federal territories and possessions in Art. IV Sec. 3 Cl. 2.
In 1798, Vice President Thomas Jefferson wrote that the federal government has no power of making paper money or anything else a legal tender, and he advocated a constitutional amendment to enforce this principle by denying the federal government the power to borrow.[5]
During the American Civil War, the federal government was unable to pay its debts with gold or silver coin, so began to issue paper notes to pay its debts, and when people refused to accept them in payment, Congress adopted the Legal Tender Act of 1862, compelling them to do so. Thus forced to accept federal notes, the recipients wanted to be able to use them to pay their own debts, and this led to litigation. The United States Supreme Court, with the support of judges recently appointed by President Ulysses S Grant, held that paper money can be legal tender, in the Legal Tender Cases, ranging from 1871 to 1884.
The United States Coinage Act of 1965 states (in part):
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
31 U.S.C. ง 5103.
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
yEAH! jUST wHO tHE hECK Said iT was iLLeGAL tO Spend them! get YOUR facts straight! He didn't do anything illegal! You need to stop & think where this country is headed! He didn't break any laws & the moron's better return the stolen property! They have a lot of nerve just taking what doesn't belong! Hopefully, the confiscators will get charged with larceny. Looks like the real criminals that break into businesses & take what doesn't belong to them are FINALLY getting exposure, American's aren't going to stand for an agency who thinks they are above the law & our constitution, how much more do you think [but who said you could think?] the AMERICAN people are going to take? You sound like a Bill O'Riley boot kisser! Just the other day, a man tried paying for his merchandise at a nearby Home Depot, with $2.00 bills, the cashier called the cops because the cashier thought the $2.00 bills were fake! What gets me was that the police took the customer away! AND You're certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer, maybe you could write for FOX news, no one watches them anyway!
sp4 hates everyone except bush.
when bush leaves office sp4 will no doubt commit suicide.
we hope
As pro-Ron Paul Murry Rothbard who is archived www.lewrockwell.com would say:
It is a property-rights issue in which the government should have no say.
If two private parties decides they would like to engage in a voluntary contract in which both parties feel they will mutually benefit because both parties feel the other's offer of goods or services is of intrinsic value to both, then why is it the government has to step in and decide what value each party should be forced to be placed on another's good, service, or medium of exchange?
Can someone trade shares of stock or corporate futures for a good or service? Can one exchange dollars for euros? Can one buy gold with a FRN? Can one buy gold with euros?
I believe the corrupt government that steals our money by printing trillions for the interests of the rich, has shown that the only way to sustain such an economic pyramid scheme is through force.
Eventually the dollar will fall and with it our empire, unfortunately it will take the Republic with it.
The rich Know they can always pay one half of the masses to kill the other half.
So now we have come to a point where the US Mint and DOJ will tell us what we can use for trade, besides their fiat currency huh? They are saying I cannot use silver gold or any other items of value I have at my disposal for trading?? WTF is this. Ever hear of barter bux, ithaca dollars or even trade in value of cars??? So now if you trade a car for a service, the car will be deemed illegal? America, your so called government is totally out of control!
I for one, agree with the raid. All of those illegal coins out there make it hard for me to decide which ones to spent at Wal-Mart. To further the government's cause of cracking down on illegal coinage, I demand that the following subversive coin-minters be raided:
- Chuck-E-Cheese
- Disney World
- Busch Gardens / Seaworld
Those are the largest offenders I can think of, and they've been getting away with it for years. CRUSH them, my benevolent government leaders!
Looks as if the inmates (SP4 in the lead) really have taken over the asylum
You all think that the constitution is the law of the land. Don't you know that the 'emperor Bush' has created new laws for the sheeple? The patriot act, National Security Presidential Directive(NSPD-51), Homeland Security Presidential Directive(HSPD-20) that, under Bush, allows him to name his NCC(National Continuity Coordinator). This gives him the power, solely, to do as he wishes. If he dosen't like your play money he can throw you in a hole and you will never be heard from again. Getting rid of Habeas Corpus made this little transgression on your rights smoother.
Somebody want to prove me wrong?
...go to a bank, and try it, then come back and report!
L o l
I'm a fan of Ron Paul, and I'd love to believe that this company is sincerely trying to make a competing 'currency'. The fact is, if you have read the 'libertyaffidavit.pdf' on libertydollar.org, you would find that this raid is more about consumer fraud than prevention of undermining the sixteenth amendment. The face value of these coins is so marked up that fifty 'liberty dollars' is about 16.50 US dollars (using silver to compare).
Also, it appears the FBI has done a thorough investigation, long before Ron Paul had such a large following.
Unless the courts make this an issue about the legality of a 'competing currency' this is actually a non-issue. In conclusion, let's not be over the top here Ron Paul supporters.
p.s. remember not for profit organizations can still compensate it's employees (i.e. make money)
Sorry Gary, but I've got to call you on that one. The silver one-ounce Ron Paul dollars are marked $20. (just like every other one-ounce Liberty silver) not $50. as you claimed. The higher prices of $45. and up were for 'first day' issues and other special editions. If you want something special, they have a right to charge extra for it.
Just for the record, I'm a Liberty Dollar Associate and a Ron Paul supporter.
Since I'm posting, SP4...if I've gone to the trouble of securing a medium of exchange that is really backed by value (the Liberty Dollar in any form) why on earth would I WANT to go to a bank and exchange that for something that is worth absolutely nothing?! We aren't using the current system of fiat money because it's a good idea. It's just pretty much been forced upon us at gunpoint. The Liberty Dollar may be our last peaceful way to change that. Hope that justice prevails...quickly.
Which is illegal? The Federal Reserve Notes of Credit not backed gold or silver or actual Gold Silver or Copper. I live in Indiana home of the Liberty Dollar and here is what our constitution says about money...
ARTICLE 11
Section 3. Money
Section 3. If the General Assembly shall enact a general banking law, such law shall provide for the registry and countersigning, by an officer of State, of all paper credit designed to be circulated as money; and ample collateral security, readily convertible into specie, for the redemption of the same in gold or silver, shall be required; which collateral security shall be under the control of the proper officer or officers of State.
The disregaurd for States rights needs to end. Ron Paul is our only hope to save this country from disaster and restore our freedoms.
Bottom line, RP scares zionists. When he is elected, the Republic has a chance and their 'paper empire' will burn.
If you care about freedom, you future, your families future go to:
www.ronpaul2008.com/
This guy has more urban legends popping up around him than Bush does! Pretty soon, he'll have to wear a cape and fly!
So we have a national security problem with people trading a collectible coin for a dollar when it cost them a dollar.???
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