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Clinton,Obama wind back attacks in Democratic debate (Roundup)
By Rich Bowden, M&C Staff Writer Feb 1, 2008, 11:47 GMT
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Older Talkback
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Obama showed vindictiveness and lack of magnanimity after his victory SC. The first part of his victory speech was deeply unpleasant attack on the Clintons. No graciousness there. And how did he handle defeat in New Hampshire and Nevada? With a combination of denial, petulance and the launching of a successful campaign to persuade the American media that the Clintons were engaged in a campaign of lies about him and, even worse, in a campaign of surreptitious racism. Clinton pointed out, it's not enough to hope and demand change; you had to be able to define what change you want and had to be able to deliver it. It was Obama who introduced King into the debate. Hillarys words were being construed not just as disrespect but as hidden racism. Obama's people was briefing the media to create this impression. The consequence has been exactly what you would expect. In the Nevada caucus, blacks voted overwhelmingly for Obama and non-blacks voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. In South Carolina, the black vote was 53 per cent of the total. Obama secured 80 per cent of it. That's the reason for his overwhelming victory there. He won only 23 per cent of the non-black vote. Contrast this to Iowa, where he won a large proportion of the white vote. It's a tragedy for Obama and entirely his own fault that this has happened. he became 'the black candidate
Obama's most effective criticisms of Clinton, she voted for authorising the war, he opposed it from the start but (and this is crucially important) he had consistently opposed the war ever since. This story of consistent opposition over years was a 'fairytale' the media had bought into.Obama has managed to persuade the media that this was a lie that he would correct. He hasn't corrected it, because he can't. He has not been consistent in the terms he set himself.
Obama supported Kerry for president, Kerry voted for war and continued to justify his support. Obama said that he did not want to cause Kerry embarrassment so he said that he, Obama, did not know how he would have voted. Isn't this the candidate who's about change, whose whole candidacy is based on a 'different kind of politics'? Isn't this the candidate who says the country can no longer tolerate political spin, that lying in the name of political advantage is what's destroying the country? Yet on the very issue he identifies as the biggest moral issue facing America Obama effectively states that he was lying for political advantage.
Obama's calls for hope, for change. but hope to do what, to change to what? He hasn't said yet. He doesn't seem to know. He says that one of the high qualities of leadership is the ability to inspire by words, and he is right. It's a rare ability. But inspire to what end? It's a pity. He promised so much.
From NBC's Chuck Todd
CNN did dial testing and reported that a slighty majority of their group gave the debate to Clinton .
Once again Clinton shined in the last debate! Was extremely Presidential! And easily stated facts, solutions and direction. Once again Obama fumbles and stumbles though trying to make points or somewhat answer the question, but not really. He doesn’t appear to be able to keep his train of thought, never seemed to be on the topic at hand. When they are next to one another she stands out, hands down. I think its O-bombs for obama…Sorry Teddy!
One of them thinks it's all over. I wonder which one.
By the way, Hillary, you could have just voted against this war in Iraq, instead of greenlighting it and then telling everyone you're against it.
No, that would have left you with Saddam....much easier to get GW to clean it up for you, huh? How's THAT working out, so far...?
Poor SP4 ,seems he fails to understand again what he was told at least a thousand times.So here goes for the 1001 th time ;in toddler language to ma sure he gets the message this time .Dear SP4 what happened was that president Bush lied about Iraq,willingly,consistently.He lied not only to the whole of the american people,but also to it's representatives in Congress.He said Irq was supporting Al Quaida,he also said Saddam possessed WMD and was about to launch an evil attack on the USA .THanks to the support of Rupert Murdoch,who owns the media in the USA these lies were spread everywhere .On top of that all the neocons made it perfectly clear that everybody who dared to disagree with the policy of Bush was not only a bad patriot ,but some king of traitor .So it is easy to understand that thanks to the continuous pressure of BUsh and Fox people actually believed these lies .After all there was at that time no reason to doubt the fairy tales dished out to you all,was there ?It was only after the invasion that you discovered there were no WMD?It was only after discovering that Bush and Cheney lied about the nuclear plans of Saddam and willfully deceived the american people and congress into believing those were real,knowing well themselves the information was bogus .
So it took a while for some to find out their president is a liar .They changed their opinion on the invasion on these new facts .Is that flip flopping to anyone ?
Is SP4 continuously lying to you in his posts .Is he continuously repeating his nonsense and trying to make you believe there is any truth in his posts ?Find out in the next episodes from him where he will continue to spread his ridiculous erratic logics .
For the past events,blame the republicans,blame the neocons,blame Bush and Cheney .If not ,find some decent arguments SP4 ,not your continuously repeated false claims....Simpleton
The American Republic is an old idea that was shuffled under the rug by greed, and untrustworthiness. Religion crept in like a disease and destroyed the foundation of government. Now it is time for all Americans rich and poor to rebuild the foundations of government in America and cast out the business and government that has ruled for so long and has made others suffer. Judah Ben-Hur as President without fear will take on the 'beast' and chain it to its fate. Obama and others will do no more than any other. Race color makes no diference in ruling a nation. Its what is truly in the heart that counts. 2012 will make the difference for America one way or another!
'what happened was that president Bush lied about Iraq, willingly, consistently. He lied not only to the whole of the american people,but also to it's representatives in Congress'
Tonny from a foreign country who reads anti-US headlines in media fails to realize that Clinton had same intel as Bush. Both Hillary and Bill used same rhetoric about Saddam while in White House. Interesting that Obama hasn't cast spotlight on the fact that Clinton never even read NIE before voting. Wow! Her rant on megalomaniac Saddam last night was almost 'neocon' talking points.
Tonny - the idea that 'Bush lied' is a total fabrication. You like it becuase it fits your simple cookie cutter world view and gives you someone to blame. If it makes you happy - fine - but the truth is quite different.
The only thing I really learned from debate last night was that Clinton has a really annoying 'cackle' of a laugh. Did anyone else notice?
Charles. In fact, Bush lies every-time he opens his mouth. It's documented! Some sites even have an index of Bush lies, Cheney lies, Rumsfeld lies and Rice lies. Those four are the lying 'Evil Axis'.
'There are certainly some troubling signs, serious signs that the economy is weakening and we've got to do something about it,' Bush told employees at Hallmark Cards Inc. in Kansas City, Missouri.
Why in hell would Bush say ''WE'VE'' got to do something about it. His silly little shit-fit war with Iraq, his lies, and his stupidity caused this crunch. Oh yes, if you don't know already, it's just beginning.
I listened to the Democratic debate last nigt and here is what I heard.
Blah, blah, change, blah, blah, blah, Bush is bad! Loud applause!
Blah, blah, blah, change, blah, blah, Bush's fault! Loud applause!
Blah, change, blah, blah, blah, blah, Bush's failed policy! Loud applause!
Now I enjoy Bush bashing as much as the next guy but, here is the question. Once Bush is gone, what will the Democrats do then?
If the performance of the current Congress is any clue, it will be pretty interesting! The party seems as void of actual ideas as one of Tonny from Belgium's posts.
Bush and his cronies lied big-time. So what if Clinton agreed to the war then? When the truth came out, she was against it. I have a lot more faith in someone who can admit something was wrong and try to remedy it than to go blindly along like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld declaring all along they are the kings of righteousness and knowledge!
post Baker. Most wanted war in the beginning just to lash out at anybody who was involved in the 9-11 attacks. I for one wanted to level a couple of countries just for starters. The lies by Bush and his mindless puppets are worse crimes than the invasion itself. I'm not sure why he has been allowed to go on.
ban sp4 from here
Its a good thing the clintons never lie...
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