US News
US says victory in Afghanistan key to defeating terrorism
Feb 10, 2008, 18:49 GMT
Munich - US Defence Secretary Robert Gates sought to overcome European scepticism over NATO's role in Afghanistan by saying defeat could destroy the alliance and embolden terrorists.
'We must not, we cannot, become a two-tiered alliance of those who are willing to fight and those who are not.
'Such a development, with all its implications for collective security, would effectively destroy the alliance,' Gates told delegates attending a high-profile security conference in Munich.
Gates bemoaned the fact that many Europeans were questioning the merits of NATO's role in Afghanistan and were calling for their troops to be pulled out, arguing that there was a direct link between the fight against the Taliban and the broader fight against Islamic terrorism.
'With safe havens in the Middle East, and new tactics honed on the battlefield and transmitted via the internet, violence and terrorism worldwide could surge,' he said.
NATO's efforts have been frustrated by divisions over strategy, with some experts warning that the rift could have a disastrous impact on its International Security Assistance Force (ISAF).
Many NATO members argue that NATO should focus more on reconstructing Afghanistan and empowering its military and are refusing to send their troops to the country's volatile south, leaving the United States, Britain, Canada and the Netherlands with the brunt of the fighting against the Taliban insurgents.
Sceptical ISAF members include Germany, where a recent poll suggested that 84 per cent of voters oppose German troops moving south and 63 per cent of them saying the Afghan mission does not serve their country's interests.
In a concession to US calls for more commitment, German officials signalled over the weekend that the country was willing to increase the upper limit of contributions to ISAF, from the current 3,500 to 4,500 forces.
In Munich, Gates also dismissed the view that the military and civilian components of the NATO mission could be separated.
'We have learned that war in the 21st century does not have stark divisions between civilian and military components. It is a continuous scale that slides from combat operations to economic development, governance and reconstruction, frequently all at the same time,' Gates said.
The annual roundtable in Munich's luxurious Bayerischer Hof hotel was attended by a handful of presidents, dozens of government ministers and hundreds of security experts from some 50 countries.
The conference's theme - 'A World in Disarray - Shifting Powers Lack of Strategies' - saw delegates exchange views on a broad variety of issues, such as the proliferation of nuclear weapons and the widening rift between the West and Vladimir Putin's Russia.
Speakers included Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer and Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
During a debate on Russia, the country's deputy prime minister, Sergei Ivanov, said his country's bid to raise its global profile should not be seen as posing a security threat to others.
Russia should occupy 'an appropriate place in world politics,' Ivanov said. However, 'we do not intend to meet this challenge by establishing military blocs or engaging in open confrontation with our opponents.'
Thousands of leftwing protesters - 3,000 according to police estimate, 7,000 according to organizers - gathered in the German city on Saturday evening but failed to disrupt the heavily-guarded conference. Police said 17 arrests had been made.
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Older Talkback
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The truth of the matter is that NATO has outlived its usefulness. After all, there are no real military threats anymore. The world is now one great big happy place.
More importantly, the United States has 119,000 troops stationed in Europe that are badly needed elsewhere. The USSR is graveyard dead. Gone! Caput! Russia's relationship with Europe is a situation that the Europeans and the Russians need to address. They United States does NOT have a dog in that contest.
This should have been taken care of over 4 years ago, but our current administration decided to take their business elsewhere? Wonder how that has worked out for them when it comes to the 'global' war?
Obviously not very well.
SP4 why don't you draw the only possible conclusion of your statement and ask for withdrawal of your troops .With stupid remarks like that there is no other option is there ?
This war in Afghanistan has all to win by a shift in tactics from purely military approach to building a nation based of prosperity.If living conditions do not improve ,the gains will be lost.THis implies agricultural development ,decent hospitals and schools,electrification and sanitation .At least 50 percent of the population has everything to win from defeating the taliban,namely the women,whose status during previous years was no different from animals .A difficult task involving not so much bullets as pencils .By the way ,it would be much much cheaper too.John Rambo was a silly movie character,Florence Nightingale was not ,too bad there are still some ignorants who don't even understand such simple facts.
There is a time and a place for everything, Tonny. It does no good to build a school house if you allow the Taliban to come along and blow the place up while it is full of little girls learning to read.
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece
Some variation on the military strategy we employed in Iraq will likely work in Afghanistan, but we need more boots on the ground to do the job. Afghanistan is larger in area, is made up of much rougher terrain than Iraq and the nogoodnicks have the ungoverned provinces of Pakistan to hide in.
Could tonny have more of a skewed idea about Americans?
Little appeasing parasite.
When are you going to get it into that texass bullcrap filled head that those 'troops' in Europe are mainly support personel in the supply chain to your misadventures in the middle east? Europe has the closes major medic facilities to treat the wounded and maimed. You are advocating more deaths by maintaining your idiotic attitude and dislike for things European.
didn't know that there were only 119,000 american servicemen stationed in Europe, until I told him. He also conveniently forgets the fact that some are sailors at bases in Italy. Some are airforce people in Great Britain and Germany. Some are cooks, some are cops most are purely administrative, and what can they do, throw paper clips? Most of the European servicemen wouldn't know which end of a gun barrel to piss in.
people work at the Pentagon. Send them to Afghanistan.
Most of the personnel I see at the pentagon wear unit patches on their right shoulder. That means that have served in Iraq, or Afghanistan. It is you that have probably done nothing to serve your country. Go paint yourself pink and protest a recruiting station if you are ashamed of yourself and feel the need to contribute in your own 'little' way.
about: 'It is you that have probably done nothing to serve your country. Go paint yourself pink and protest a recruiting station if you are ashamed of yourself and feel the need to contribute in your own 'little' way.'
My, aren't you a petulant little twit. Must be another neocon neanderthal. The closest you've been to the pentagon is on tv. In the unlikely event that you have been there as a visitor, it is too bad that cruise missile through the front door didn't get you, back on 9/11.
RE:'Noharness didn't know that there were only 119,000 american servicemen stationed in Europe, until I told him. He also conveniently forgets the fact that some are sailors at bases in Italy. Some are airforce people in Great Britain and Germany. Some are cooks, some are cops most are purely administrative, and what can they do, throw paper clips? Most of the European servicemen wouldn't know which end of a gun barrel to piss in.'
Three lies in single post. All but one brigade, the First, of the 3rd Armored Division in Europe as is the bulk of 3rd Corp and V Corp. Every person in uniform gets basic training, which means that they do know something about using a firearm. You have never informed me of a single thing, other than what you think of me. When are you going to behave like an adult? Never, right?
Re:'You are advocating more deaths by maintaining your idiotic attitude and dislike for things European.'
Hospitals and doctors can be moved. What I like or dislike about Europe has nothing to do with why I want NATO dissolved. The US government is doing some truly stupid things out of inertia and stupidity. Russia is not our enemy. Russia is not Europe's enemy. If the Russians are a problem for the Europeans, then that is a European problem, isn't it? It is high time that the Europeans started taking care of their own defense.
I would pull 2nd ID out of South Korea, as well. Right now, they are doing nothing but sitting around serving as targets for Kim's artillery. We are NOT going to launch an attack across the heavily defended DMZ if Kim Jong-il misbehaves. Why would we? He has two very long coastlines that he cannot defend. Should Kim attack the ROK, the ROK would be in Pyongyang inside of a week, needing only air support from us to do the job. The ROK army is vastly superior to that of the DPRK.
I would withdraw our troops from Japan. It is well past the time for the Japanese to start taking care of their own defense. They gripe about our presence there constantly. It's time to give them what they want and need.
We need to settle the messes in Iraq and Afghanistan as quickly as we may while undertaking new strategies for dealing with our energy needs. The longer this goes on, the greater the risk of a widening war.
We DO need a military that is big hard and sharp, but the idea for having such a military is to deter anyone from bothering us. We are NOT the world's police and, further, we are a Republic, not an Empire. We cannot and MUST not allow our energy needs to drive our defense policy or our foreign policy. It is NOT our duty to establish democracies in every nation on Earth and it foolish for us to try.
The only winners in Afghanistan is no-one! Wait let me rethink that, well if you count the American Military Complex, then there might be a winner!. The only thing that grows there and makes money for its people is the little plant that can. Take that away, people grow hungry and turn to Bin Laden and his boys for help! We should have learned from the lessons in Kosovo [soon to start up again] to Iraq. You will never win a war on religion.........Afghanistan is another Africa a wasteland, always will be. The Afghanistan Government is just able to control their own green zone, much less venture out of it................
And so it is...................
...that would be just peachy except for the assholes with the guns who kill anyone who wants to learn to read, or worship in a Christian church, etc.
When you are in the middle of the most bigoted, narrow minded, hateful people on earth, I suspect you're going to need some security.
We discussed this before: You are a person raised on a solid diet of safe, secure places to live your life. To you, this is just like water. Yes, Tonny, others have paid a dear price for your freedoms and so it is an easy journey to just think that everyone wants the progress you take for granted.
In a place like Afghanistan, it is simply not so. If they want the kind of life you luxuriate in, they will have to build it for themselves, and I have real doubts about their will to do so. This is because their society will have to reject the clan warfare, the extreme religious views and their societal paranoia. I have real doubts they will, even if they could.
Nonetheless, the worlds mop and bucket boy, Bush, is determined to leave this soiree' to the next chucklehead in office, for him, or her, to contend with. Good luck, huh?
'US says victory in Afghanistan key to defeating terrorism'
Wow, what a concept. Why the hell didn't he do the job when our forces were actually IN Afghanistan, before deposing Iraq and getting the Shia exactly what they'd been looking for - Saddam's fall, so that the Shia majority could run Iraq?
The Iraqi Congress cannot even meet to disagree - meager efforts at laws are being passed with the majority of their Congress not participating, or the Sunni standing against the very changes that are supposed to help them.
Without an actual Government to run Iraq, all our expenses and lives lost will get us nothing, in the end. The country is severely split, and will remain so - and now that we've armed the Sunni, both sides will be better able to kill each other.
...the sunnis could get armed anyways. The fact is Iraq has about as much violence now as Pakistan, and we have all the sides dealing.
Questioning the worth of this war? Talk about 5 years late! Where was Hillary and Kerry when they were supposed to be the war protesters? Where was the outrage? How about the passioned pleas?
They started the Flower Childrens War! Yep, they just forgot everything from the 60's and jumped!
Yes, if you ask them, ol GW jes fooled em sumpin baaad! Now whats THAT say about dumb ol George!
Yep, you either have to believe that Hirrary and her buds greenlighted this mess in order to get Bush to rid them of Saddam before election time, then be able to blame him for it, or that they were dirt stupid enough to buy into Bush's reasoning.
Pick one! And By all means, be sure to get back to us with the answer!
Grow up, jerkoff. No one is laughing WITH you, they're laughing AT you.
RE:
Yep, you either have to believe that Hirrary and her buds greenlighted this mess in order to get Bush to rid them of Saddam before election time, then be able to blame him for it, or that they were dirt stupid enough to buy into Bush's reasoning.
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That is the dumbest damb thing you've said lately. What you're essentially complaining about is that some smart people were DUMB enough to believe Bush when he said war was 'optional'.
The only ones who believe him now are idiots like you, and of course GOP incumbents can only call him a damned fool in private, because some imbecile right-wing AK'er might hear them.
Pathetic. Your village called - they miss their idiot.
(The PURPOSE was to get some breathing room for the Iraqi leadership; yet they seem to be collapsing, just as the troop count will be reduced)
news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1390954.php/Abstain ing_votes_may_dissolve_Iraqi_parliament_al-Mashhadany_says
Abstaining votes may dissolve Iraqi parliament, al-Mashhadany says
Baghdad - Iraq's speaker of parliament Mahmoud al-Mashhadany warned Tuesday from the consequences of abstaining in upcoming votes on the federal budget, regulating provinces and general amnesty, saying it might lead to a dissolution of parliament.
In a parliamentary session, al-Mashhadany said, 'the situation will turn to be unpleasant if members did not vote on the laws.' He added that members have filed many requests to dissolve the parliament if the situation remained the same. Voting on the bills has been delayed many times amid conflicts between different parliamentary blocs.
The Kurdish Autonomous Region is demands 17 per cent of the 2008 federal budget, but the bill plans only 12 per cent for the Kurds. 'We could not solve these conflicts until now. The problem is that there is no consensus to take a decision,' al-Mashhadany was quoted as saying in al-Hayat newspaper.
He called all heads of the different blocs to realize the critical situation that the parliament is facing. 'If this failure continues, the existence of a parliament will be useless, and this might lead to a total collapse of the country,' said al-Mashhadany.
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SP4: Why Would They?Feb 10th, 2008 - 19:08:40
They get all the benefits without having to provide anything.
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