US News
PREVIEW: Obama looks to keep edge as Democratic race hits Wisconsin
Feb 16, 2008, 5:38 GMT
Washington - While Hillary Clinton is already looking forward to a key round of primaries in Ohio and Texas in early March, Barack Obama is hoping that wins in Wisconsin and Hawaii on Tuesday will give him unstoppable momentum in the Democratic presidential nominating contest.
Obama will have pulled off a string of 10 consecutive state victories over Clinton if he wins Wisconsin and Hawaii Tuesday. Polls in Wisconsin have shown Obama - elected to the Senate from neighbouring state Illinois in 2004 - with a slim lead, while he spent much of his life growing up in Hawaii.
Clinton's campaign has for weeks played down expectations in state contests that came immediately after Super Tuesday, where the two Democrats battled to a draw in more than 20 state electoral contests earlier this month. The New York senator has staked her hopes of winning the nomination on Texas and Ohio on March 4.
Clinton on Friday characterized herself as a woman with solutions for the country, in contrast to the lofty rhetoric that has turned Obama into the favourite.
'You can choose speeches, or solutions. You can choose talk, or action,' she said at a rally in Ohio.
Obama fired back in Wisconsin, accusing Clinton of putting up 'boxing gloves' against the Republicans instead of working together with the opposition to hammer out solutions for the country.
Obama handily won the so-called Potomac primaries of Virginia, Maryland and Washington DC on Tuesday and - for the first time since the very first contest in Iowa - pulled ahead of Clinton last week in the battle for delegates to the Democratic Party's nominating convention in August.
He gained added momentum Friday by winning the backing of a key national labour group, the Service Employees International Union, which has 1.9 million members. On Thursday he was endorsed by another large union, the United Food and Commercial Workers.
On the Republican side, John McCain heads into Tuesday's contests virtually guaranteed of winning his party's nomination. The 71-year- old Arizona senator on Thursday picked up the endorsement of his former rival Mitt Romney, who urged all of the delegates he had won before dropping out to back McCain at the Republican Party's own nominating convention in September.
Romney's move all-but doomed the chances of former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, whose only real hope of capturing the nomination was to prevent McCain from taking all 1,191 delegates needed to win outright - and hope that Romney's delegates would back him instead of McCain at the convention.
McCain has spent the last week drawing contrasts with his possible Democratic opponents and urging Republicans to unite behind him ahead of general elections on November 4.
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Older Talkback
page: 1
'Go, Obama!'
Go Terrorism!
Go Bankruptcy!
Go Open Borders!
Go Socialized medicine that doesn't work!
Go Gutting the peoples rights to gun ownership!
Go Ending the effort for teacher accountability in our schools!
Go Huge Government!
Go A creepy substanceless cult of personality!
Go being told what you want to hear!
...the dems demonized the republicans for the last seven years. It's undeniable that the Clintonistas are the engine for this kind of thing.
If Obama can get Congress to do what it is charged to do, Legislate, instead of accusing baseball personalities of something they can't get into a courtroom, perhaps we'd see some of the pressing issues of our time getting the attention they deserve.
'If Obama can get Congress to do what it is charged to do, Legislate,'
Think about it... To congress that means one word: Spend. With the legislative branch in their hands, complete with their 18% approval rating, and the executive branch being run by this pandering, jug-eared jackass that the legions of illiterate are fawning over what is going to slow them down? We are running up on $10 TRILLION on the debt clock. Instead of addressing this in ANY way Obamas spending proposals are going to bankrupt us by the end of the first half of his first term. (Running up our debt OVER our GDP!)
The problems:
1) Islamist terrorism.
2) Our National debt.
Each of those could effectively end the United States as we know it. Simply put, Obama is the WORST choice on either of those issues.
A few days ago, a local news team went to shoot some film at Obama's Houston campaign headquarters. Behind the desks of the perky gals answering the phones were posters of Che Guevara and Cuban flags. Do Obama's volunteers even know who Che is? Apart from being a really cool guy on posters and T-shirts, like James Dean or Bart Simpson. I doubt it. They're pseudo-revolutionaries. Very few people in America want a real revolution: Life is great, this is a terrific country, with unparalleled economic opportunities.
To be sure, it's a tougher break if you have the misfortune to be the victim of one of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society programs or a decrepit inner-city grade school with a higher per-student budget than the wealthiest parts of Switzerland. But even so, to be born a U.S. citizen is, as Cecil Rhodes once said of England, to win first prize in the lottery of life.
Not even Obama supporters want real revolution: Ask the many peoples around the world for whom revolution means not a lame-o Sixties poster above your desk but the carnage and horror of the day before yesterday.
Poor mean, vengeful Hillary, heading for a one-way ticket on the Oblivion Express, has a point. Barack Obama is an elevator Muzak dinner-theater reduction of all the glibbest hand-me-down myths in liberal iconography – which is probably why he's a shoo-in. The problems facing America – unsustainable entitlements, broken borders, nuclearizing enemies – require tough solutions, not gaseous Sesame Street platitudes. But, unlike the whose-turn-is-it? GOP, Mrs. Clinton's crowd generally picks the new kid on the block: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama. I wonder if Hillary Rodham, Goldwater Girl of 1964, ever wishes she'd stuck with her original party.
www.ocregister.com/opinion/obama-barack-america-1981504-new-first
The dem religion is going through it's reformation. To do so, they need an inquisition. The old clerics, the Clintonistas, are being told they are out.
Look at their Congressional leadership: They are split on so many issues.
Even if they win, they will leave zillions of disgruntled Obamans behind. This is why the Clinton defections are happening so fast.
If they lose, how many of the Clintonistas are going to follow? Probably the one's desparate for work.
Obama is the new figure. He appeals to the left and has the option of coming to the center anytime he wants. His voting record is virtually, the same as Hillary's, but he's got a shine that appeals to the public as opposed the shrew-ish Hillary.
Is anyone impressed with Obamas resume' or positions? Heck no, because he has no resume' or real positions. He has no executive experience or political machine to go forward with once he's in.
If he loses, he is still a survivor, with national recognition. He would be, undeniably, a player (now a playa?) in national politics.
So here we go, into the void. Polish over substance.
And again we hear from our resident bigots. Deny all you like, but bigot fits you well.
That don't work anymore...ppppperfect. You'll need to get some new ryhmes,
SP4....
Seems to work just as much as your rants/lies about the Clintons. Have a great one bigot.
'And again we hear from our resident bigots. Deny all you like, but bigot fits you well.'
God, seriously, people like you are so programmed and so thoroughly indoctrinated that any reasoned objection to having this phony feel good, substanceless hype spewing, glorified carnival barker elected to the office of President is met with the knee-jerk response for EVERYTHING... Calling someone else a 'bigot'. Please... It ain't working anymore.
You are the only one here voting for someone because of their color. We have already been through this, that makes YOU the bigot.
Would Obama be a frontrunner if he were white?
You and your hand soldier SP4's argument is not any more valid today than last week. I know SP4 has a 5th grade education, but I expected more out of you.
Deny all you want but you better look deep. Last week your hero Mr. McKennedy started flip-flopping, and all we get is the same old crap out of you neo-cons?
Flip flopping? Your jug eared jackass has already started down the 'do as I say not as I do' road that is the essence of liberalism:
'Mr. Obama's Waffle
washingtonpost.com Saturday, February 16, 2008;
AS RECENTLY as November, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) was unequivocal about whether he would agree to take public financing for the general election if his Republican opponent pledged to do the same. 'If you are nominated for president in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?' the Midwest Democracy Network asked in a questionnaire. Mr. Obama's answer was clear. 'Yes,' he wrote. 'If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.'
Or maybe not. Mr. Obama deserves credit for obtaining a ruling from the Federal Election Commission that allowed him to raise money for the general election campaign but reserve the right to return the funds if he were to win the nomination and manage to arrange a cease-fire with the other side. That outcome, once improbable, is now within reach. The presumptive Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, agreed long ago to Mr. Obama's deal, back when his prospects for securing the nomination seemed slim. Mr. McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, reaffirmed that pledge this week at a lunch with reporters sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor.
But Mr. Obama's campaign, which has been raking in money at an astonishing clip of more than $30 million a month, is starting to hedge. Speaking to the Associated Press, Mr. Obama's spokesman, Bill Burton, downgraded the Obama plan to 'something that we pursued with the FEC and it was an option that we wanted on the table and is on the table.' Asked about the campaign's earlier position, Mr. Burton said, 'No, there is no pledge.'
So... the guy without any real qualifications that you are voting for because he is the 'correct' color is already starting in with 'It depends on what the definition of 'is' is...' BS that we couldn't wait to get rid of.
Terence Corcoran, National Post Published: Saturday, February 16, 2008
Somewhere and sometime between now and the Democratic convention, populist glamour boy Barack Obama's charisma can be expected to run out of candlepower. Not totally, of course. He'll always be able to raise a crowd to its feet and bedazzle some people -- like the sensible-looking thirtysomething woman interviewed last Tuesday by the CBC at a Washington pub after Mr. Obama swept the Potomac states. Suspending rational judgment, she said: 'Are you kidding me? I'd walk over hot coals to vote for this man. I mean, oh, he's just ... he's a man that can change not our country, but the world.'
[snip]
If primary voters actually spent time with Mr. Obama's speeches and ideas rather than react to his oratorical skills and rhetorical devices, some might begin to wonder what all the fuss is about. Mr. Obama can deliver rhythmic cadences and rolling repetitive references to 'change' and 'dreams' and 'hope.' As he said: 'No dream is beyond beyond our grasp if we reach for it, and fight for it, and work for it.'
When it comes down to content, however, an Obama speech is not about change at all. It's about more of the same, more of the same old anti-corporate demagoguery, more of the same old attacks on CEO bonuses, Exxon, gouging businesses. There are ritual panderings to big labour and populist notions of free trade and NAFTA and China -- as he did in a speech on Tuesday night to an arena crowd in Madison, Wisc.
On NAFTA and trade, under which businesses 'ship jobs overseas and force parents to compete with their teenagers to work for minimum wage at Wal-Mart,' Mr. Obama is playing on the same old populist mythologies that have driven political debate in America for more than a century -- the little people versus the wealthy, the lobbyists, the powerful, profits, special interests, the privileged.
How many proud Wal-Mart workers would find that demeaning reference offensive? Mr. Obama plays off such corporate images. After mentioning Exxon's record profits and high gasoline prices, he later introduces the teacher who works at the night shift at Dunkin Donuts. Will hard-working two-job-holding Americans really take kindly to a politician who tells them their effort is an unnecessary and even futile one that can only be fixed by going after excessive CEO bonus payouts?
When it comes to policy and prescriptions, the grand calls for change and hope soon spiral down to endless lists of tired and familiar programs and payments and promises. In another speech on Wednesday at a General Motors plant in Janesville, Wisc., Mr. Obama ran through thousands of words proposing enough initiatives to keep the same old Dem.-Rep. congressional crown busy for half a decade of the same old political games he says he wants to get rid of -- from universal health care to minimum wage increases to doubling the number of low-income people receiving an earned income tax credit, worth $1,000 a year.
What Barack Obama offers is more, much more, of the same old politics jazzed up by a dazzling salesman with a great big smile. For how long will Americans buy it?
Obama gets down to specifics, and it's not pretty
Thomas Lifson February 14, 2008
Is the American electorate solidly behind the idea of increasing foreign aid $845 billion over the next 13 years? Apparently that is what Barack Obama believes, for a bill he sponsored doing exactly that probably is coming to a vote today in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, according to Cliff Kincaid of Accuracy in Media.
A nice-sounding bill called the 'Global Poverty Act,' sponsored by Democratic presidential candidate and Senator Barack Obama, is up for a Senate vote on Thursday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States. The bill, which has the support of many liberal religious groups, makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations. [....]
The bill, which is item number four on the committee's business meeting agenda, passed the House by a voice vote last year because most members didn't realize what was in it. Congressional sponsors have been careful not to calculate the amount of foreign aid spending that it would require. According to the website of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, no hearings have been held on the Obama bill in that body.
A release from the Obama Senate office about the bill declares, 'In 2000, the U.S. joined more than 180 countries at the United Nations Millennium Summit and vowed to reduce global poverty by 2015. We are halfway towards this deadline, and it is time the United States makes it a priority of our foreign policy to meet this goal and help those who are struggling day to day.'
The legislation itself requires the President 'to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.'
The bill defines the term 'Millennium Development Goals' as the goals set out in the United Nations Millennium Declaration, General Assembly Resolution 55/2 (2000).
Because his campaign has stayed with vapid generalities about hope and change, the specifics of this bill are doubly important as an indicator of the direction of Obama's intentions. So a president Obama would follow UN recommendations about shipping more of our tax dollars overseas, apparnelty. Is this really a winning issue?
Update -- Rick Moran adds:
I'm not sure that a 'global tax' is mandated here. It would seem to be one mechanism to meet the .7 GDP requirement in foreign aid spending but is not required.
The bill is an abomination nonetheless. International cooperation is one thing. But this smacks of making US policy subservient to a supra national agenda loaded up with un-American concepts like gun control and government intervention in parent-child relationships.
Here is a truly hilarious piece by Michael Kinsey:
www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1713490,00.html
Snippet:'Republicans have pulled some dirty tricks before: Swift Boats, Watergate, you name it. But this time they have gone too far. In its desperate hunger for victory at any cost, the Republican Party is on the verge of choosing a presidential candidate, John McCain, who is widely regarded (everywhere except inside the Republican Party itself) as honest, courageous, likable and intelligent.'
Even Rush Limbaugh will get a kick out of this one.
From David Limbaugh:
www.townhall.com/Columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2008/02/15/mccainiacs_must_pe rsuade_grassroots,_not_commentators
The first fight Senator McCain must win is the fight inside his OWN party. Calls for 'party unity' by Gooper leaders, especially when it is the likes of Gary Bauer, will fall on deaf ears. Senator McCain bragging on his record is going to be COMPLETELY ineffectual. He must reveal his intentions for the future and they had best be detailed. One of the most alarming things I see about the man is that he appears to be completely disorganized and exercises little in the way of forethought.
One of Hillary's advisors just came out and said that, no matter what the regular delegates decide, Hillary will win the Superdelegates.
Picture this: Obama having won the popular dem vote is pushed aside and Hillary installed by some superdelegate who answers to no constituancy, or public body of voters. Yes, folks, it would be the democrats, flushing the negro, in favor of the wife of a former President and party apparatachick.
Gosh, it's almost......marxist!...in it's appearence. Think about it:
'gosh Bill....he actually thought he could get the nomination'
'yeah hon, ah knoow...silly negro! ha ha ha ha!'
The other alternative is that Obama DOES win the nomination and now the Clintonites abandon the party.
It seems to me that blaming the republicans might just be the biggest waste of time they can do! Plus, the alternative isn't really a conservative! Oooooooh! Ick!
'Flip flopping? Your jug eared jackass has already started down the 'do as I say not as I do' road that is the essence of liberalism:'
'Jug eared jackass' nice description, I am sure you mean something else???
Hey idiot, he has yet to flip-flop, he has not even won the nomination? You guys are so pathetic, I know you are in fear of the loss by your party of the war machine that sends people off to be ground up in the desert with no regard for their families or what happens on their return, but the fact is that your boy (the old man) has already flip-flopped. More to come on his part.
'So... the guy without any real qualifications that you are voting for because he is the 'correct' color is already starting in with 'It depends on what the definition of 'is' is...' BS that we couldn't wait to get rid of.'
As stupid as your statements are, when he flip-flops then you idiots can call him on it. Your boy has and that is a fact. The poor POW that was tortured has in fact voted for in favor of torture!
I guess it is OK when it is done by someone a neo-con supports? Being a bigot and being exposed as one must be making you desperate, your comments are in the same league as SP4.
One of the things libnazis cannot do very well is think for themselves. This is borne out by what you call 'superdelegates. More below on that!
Well, if McCain DID vote for greenlighting this kind of interrogation, it must not be very bad. After all, he is the one expert in the Senate on the subject.
The other fact you fools need to face is this little paradox.
Either Bush is smart and fooled 540 legislators with the story of WMD's.
or
Bush is the fool and they got him to rid them of Saddam, and then blamed him for the war, in order to serve their careers.
Now if you go door #1, Bush is the smart guy, and door #2 the dems served up this war for themselves. Go work on that and, by all means, feel free to get back to us. Either way, I think you're not going to like the answer.
Besides, if you're a democrat, you'd better be paying attention to whats happeneing in your own Party.
Harold Ickes, a former Clintonite wag, just came out publicly and said that Hillary intends to bypass the convention dlegates and win via the superdelegates.
This means, to trogladyte dems like you, that all of the primaries are a waste of time. It means that Hillary and the Clintonites intend to deal out the Negro in a positively marxist power play.
Can you imagine what happens next? Do some of your own thinking on that and get back to us.
who wants to track down sp4??
''Jug eared jackass' nice description, I am sure you mean something else???'
No bigot, you are judging me by your own yardstick.
'I know you are in fear of the loss by your party of the war machine that sends people off to be ground up in the desert with no regard for their families or what happens on their return, '
Nope, unlike Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, John Murtha and Harry Reid Obama didn't actually vote for the Iraq war? Why? He wasn't in the senate. He was out setting up his lemonade stand and delivering the morning paper on his Schwinn. Unlike the rest of the 'surrender to terrorism' party he doesn't have any record to point to because he HASN'T DONE ANYTHING.
' when he flip-flops then you idiots can call him on it.'
He already has, Read the above article. He was for matching funds befpore he was against them.
' The poor POW that was tortured has in fact voted for in favor of torture!'
No, nice try. He voted to not force the CIA to go by the army field manual. Barack was never a 'poor POW'... the only uniform he had to wear was at the Indonesian madrassah that he was educated at. :-D
' Being a bigot and being exposed as one must be making you desperate,'
ONCE AGAIN; YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN THIS CONVERSATION WHO IS VOTING FOR SOMEONE BECAUSE OF HIS COLOR! THAT MAKES YOU A BIGOT.
'One of the things libnazis cannot do very well is think for themselves. This is borne out by what you call 'superdelegates. More below on that!'
So stupid, please go back to school so you can communicate!
'Well, if McCain DID vote for greenlighting this kind of interrogation, it must not be very bad. After all, he is the one expert in the Senate on the subject.'
If this were true, he would not have had to tip toe into the nomination. He still has a lot of a-- to kiss to get the support of this neo-con group of bible thumpers!
'The other fact you fools need to face is this little paradox.
Either Bush is smart and fooled 540 legislators with the story of WMD's.
or
Bush is the fool and they got him to rid them of Saddam, and then blamed him for the war, in order to serve their careers.
Now if you go door #1, Bush is the smart guy, and door #2 the dems served up this war for themselves. Go work on that and, by all means, feel free to get back to us. Either way, I think you're not going to like the answer.'
One thing you do have going for you, you are the biggest idiot God ever created. None of this babble makes any sense to anyone an you keep spewing. Please go to Rush's website and get something new.
Besides, if you're a democrat, you'd better be paying attention to whats happeneing in your own Party.
'Harold Ickes, a former Clintonite wag, just came out publicly and said that Hillary intends to bypass the convention dlegates and win via the superdelegates.'
Liar, what he said is this may occur and if it does the party will not support. Get your stupid facts straight you idiot!
'This means, to trogladyte dems like you, that all of the primaries are a waste of time. It means that Hillary and the Clintonites intend to deal out the Negro in a positively marxist power play.'
Just like a neo-con need to make things up before the happen so it makes a good story. Idiot.
'Can you imagine what happens next? Do some of your own thinking on that and get back to us.'
Whenever you speak no one needs to think about it and get back to anyone. First of all there is only one of you so it should read 'get back to me'. I have not seen a big following of yours on this board unless you call a following all of us that call you an idiot. And secondly everything you say is either a lie and unsupported by facts or is a joke, so no one needs to think before getting back to you and calling you on your crap.
Before I begin, it is nice to see you on the same level as SP4, something you should be proud of, to lower yourself that much.
'No bigot, you are judging me by your own yardstick.'
No, I am just judging you by your past and present posts. Bigot!
'Nope, unlike Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, John Murtha and Harry Reid Obama didn't actually vote for the Iraq war? Why? He wasn't in the senate. He was out setting up his lemonade stand and delivering the morning paper on his Schwinn. Unlike the rest of the 'surrender to terrorism' party he doesn't have any record to point to because he HASN'T DONE ANYTHING.'
My God man, are you bursting a blood vessel in your forehead, sounds like I am getting to you. Unlike the 'slaughter our young for nothing party' we would like to fight for something, a bit different than you you neo-con asses, lead by a group of people who dodged the draft or cocained out their service, who crapped on Mr. McCain for 8 years, and now that they have made complete mess of everything begrudgingly gives the only one of the group that did serve a chance. Hum, sounds pretty hypocritical to me.
'He already has, Read the above article. He was for matching funds befpore(sp) he was against them.'
Like I said before any as usual a neo-con cannot concentrate lone enough to absorb, lets wait until it happens and then we will see if he in fact (something you guys do not like) flip-flops. If he does, I hope he crushes you war hero. We don't need another old white man running the country after the worst president in history.
'No, nice try. He voted to not force the CIA to go by the army field manual. Barack was never a 'poor POW'... the only uniform he had to wear was at the Indonesian madrassah that he was educated at. :-D'
Try hell, he voted for torture---idiot. And again with the lies. And you boy was flip-flopping when he was a POW, giving statements to support the enemy. : -D
'ONCE AGAIN; YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE IN THIS CONVERSATION WHO IS VOTING FOR SOMEONE BECAUSE OF HIS COLOR! THAT MAKES YOU A BIGOT.'
I love it, all caps. You must need to take your heart medicine before you reply. Please find anywhere in your vast archives where I have said I was for sure going to vote for Mr. Obama??? Me-thinks you are da bigot!!! You really meant something besides 'big eared jackass'......
...an empty shirt answer.
Insults? Get in line! Like most of the libnazi robots, you sidestepped the answers because you cannot bear to face the truth:
Your party is imploding
The dems are either actually dumber than Bush, a theory I just love but cannot accept, or they used the situation to get themselves rid of Saddam and then used it to try for the White House, a far more likely scenario.
Your reply? Still waiting sweetheart!
The dems are now in a civil war, with the left embracing Obama for no other reason than the same one they hate Bush for:
He's a terrific speaker.
That's a fact! Obama is clearly a better speaker than Hillary, and both are far better than Bush. Like most of the libnazi robots, they think this implies intelligence. Never mind the drubbing Bush give them in the Congress almost daily, passing HIS bills, with only a minority, getting them to play at every turn while Harry Read and Nancy Pelosi, those sacks of sh-t, spend their time pillorying baseball personalities and usurping the power of the executive.
Yep, you are going to nominate Obama and the Crinton superdelegates are going to take it away from the negro. Positively Marxist, don't you agree?
No, your going to have to do far better with your insults. One other thing: no one thinks you speak for this forum as a whole, so don't flatter yourself.
Re:'Either Bush is smart and fooled 540 legislators with the story of WMD's.
Also regarding: 'The dems are either actually dumber than Bush, a theory I just love but cannot accept, or they used the situation to get themselves rid of Saddam and then used it to try for the White House, a far more likely scenario.'
I have been following American politics for a long time now. I am here to tell you that I have never seen a collection of people as stupid as our current crop of leaders. They are so badly impaired that I am beginning to suspect that there is lead or mercury or both contaminating the water supply in Washington, DC. If this is this is the case, then the Bushbaby might have a slight mental edge on the Congresscritters because most of them have been in DC a lot longer than he has been.
...stupid at what? They get most of their legislation passed. They, year after year, manage to push their agenda forward. This President has managed, with a whopping 35% approval rating, to get elected twice, beating guys who are, by their moronic followers FAR smarter. He has essentially accomplished most of what he came to Washington for.
Whenever I pose THAT question i.e. the war, everyone takes a hike, because you either have to face the fact that Bush is the smart one, or the dems are totally without a conscience. Even then, GW might have just played them knowing they'd do it!
This, to me, doesn't sound like a man who's too dumb. A far more likely scenario is that he's exactly what he looks like: a guy who just wanted to come to DC, pass some legislation and go back into private life.
9/11 changed all that, didn't it?
Now, we needed a statesman who would make really bold moves and that is not the guy in the big chair. Sitting around a table, his guys tell him 'someone's going to have to deal with Saddam and you'll be damned if you do and damned if you don't'. Bush, who fully intened to deal with it from day one got his greenlight anyways.
Down the road, all the nabobs in the Congress worked exactly the same calculus 'hey, let's get ol GW to bag Saddam, and then when the war comes, we can blame im for it! It's clean and neat and we won't be to blame!'
Anyone blaming Hillary yet? Nothing more predictable than the dems.
I'll agree ol GW and his ilk are stupid, the moment someone can show me on what subject. The war? Get in line.
'No, I am just judging you by your past and present posts. Bigot!'
Where have I said what race I am or why I am going to vote for someone because of their race... You are going to try to elect this kid who should have a beanie with a propeller on it and a balloon tied to his wrist because you think it would be 'fun' to have a black president. Voting for someone because of their race is bigotry. Insisting on some other qualification is common sense.
'My God man, are you bursting a blood vessel in your forehead'
By moving my finger 3/4ths of an inch to hit the 'caps lock' key? Naah.
'we would like to fight for something,'
Yeah, free money from the government! Yee ha. How courageous.
' lead by a group of people who dodged the draft or cocained out their service,'
And Barack did what? Was he even a cub scout? Do they have cub scouts in islamic countries?
' Hum, sounds pretty hypocritical to me.'
Like your party voting for a war and then trying to lose it to al Qaeda in order to score political points with their paint chip eating, bigoted constituency?
' If he does, I hope he crushes you[sic] war hero.'
He will crush the country. Idiot.
'We don't need another old white man running the country'
BIGOT!!!!! RACIST!!!!! YOU BLEW IT RACIST!!!! RIGHT THERE FOR ALL TO SEE!!! We don't need a 'white man'!!!! I knew it! Youy are voting for Barack because he is black, (his only qualification) that makes you a RACIST!
BIGOT!
'And you boy was flip-flopping when he was a POW, giving statements to support the enemy.'
That is a lie, prove it bigot. You have now demonstrated yourself to be a liar and a bigot pperfect. you have done so while accusing others of being the same thing. Seriously, that is pretty hypocritical, ignorant and childish.
'Please find anywhere in your vast archives where I have said I was for sure going to vote for Mr. Obama??'
Aaah, flip flopping much? That's OK, you are probably just realizing that he is completely unqualified. See, you can educate a bigot.
'Me-thinks you are da bigot!!!'
Me thinks you are full of rationalizations and psychological projection.
'You really meant something besides 'big eared jackass'......'
Have I demonstrated any problem in choosing the correct words to express myself?
You really meant what you said when wrote that you didn't need anymore 'white men'... Not only are you a racist bigot but you are also a sexist bigot.
By the way, your new name is SP4 Jr. You have adopted his plan of mis-information. Be proud!
'Where have I said what race I am or why I am going to vote for someone because of their race... You are going to try to elect this kid who should have a beanie with a propeller on it and a balloon tied to his wrist because you think it would be 'fun' to have a black president. Voting for someone because of their race is bigotry. Insisting on some other qualification is common sense. '
Kid??? BIGOT!!!!! RACIST!!!!! YOU BLEW IT RACIST!!!! RIGHT THERE FOR ALL TO SEE!!! Kid, man'!!!! I knew it! You are getting stupider by the minute. That's ok SP4 Jr., just as your statement 3 months ago about us having things pretty well wrapped up in Afghanistan, your credibility is more and more suspect.
'Yeah, free money from the government! Yee ha. How courageous.'
What a stupid reply, thought better of you SP4 Jr.
'And Barack did what? Was he even a cub scout? Do they have cub scouts in islamic countries? '
No but they do in Hawaii where he was educated you idiot liar SP4 Jr.
'Like your party voting for a war and then trying to lose it to al Qaeda in order to score political points with their paint chip eating, bigoted constituency? '
Another stupid response. Like you guys are trying to win it! You went in un-prepared, un-informed, minus the troops you need, then put in a 'surge' where we are still loosing 35+ troops monthly---all for something you cannot even explain to a 3rd grader. That is because your leader is 'not smarter than a 3rd grader'.
'He will crush the country. Idiot.'
Says you, SP4 Jr. Like your boy GWB?
'BIGOT!!!!! RACIST!!!!! YOU BLEW IT RACIST!!!! RIGHT THERE FOR ALL TO SEE!!! We don't need a 'white man'!!!! I knew it! Youy (sp) are voting for Barack because he is black, (his only qualification) that makes you a RACIST!'
If that is being racist, then I am guilty. I just don't think these old white men have done a good job, in that sense I guess I am a bigot against old white men. Again SP4 Jr., please point out where I said I was going to vote for Mr. Obama?
'That is a lie, prove it bigot. You have now demonstrated yourself to be a liar and a bigot pperfect. you have done so while accusing others of being the same thing. Seriously, that is pretty hypocritical, ignorant and childish.'
Oh my, I guess that touched the right button--you are even stupider than I thought. There is as much truth to my statement 'And you boy was flip-flopping when he was a POW, giving statements to support the enemy.' as yours about Mr. Obama 'the only uniform he had to wear was at the Indonesian madrassah that he was educated at. :-D'. Liar!
'Aaah, flip flopping much? That's OK, you are probably just realizing that he is completely unqualified. See, you can educate a bigot.'
See above liar. And again SP4 Jr. you are sliding in the educated department. I am surprised.
'Me thinks you are full of rationalizations and psychological projection. '
As devoid of reality as you are, I am shocked you can think SP4 Jr.
'Have I demonstrated any problem in choosing the correct words to express myself?'
You used to choose great words, but for some reason in the last couple of months you are slipping to SP4's slimy level. You use to have some truth to things you said, but now just like your mentor SP4 you are down there near whale crap.
'You really meant what you said when wrote that you didn't need anymore 'white men'... Not only are you a racist bigot but you are also a sexist bigot.'
A sexist bigot, than is funny coming from one who hates anything that he does not agree on. Now, we all know who the bigot here is, the one who would not support a woman or a black man. Sp4 and SP4 Jr., what a team.
...the difference is we don't back a woman or a black man just BECAUSE they are a women or black.
Seriously, do you really think Obama would be where he is were he NOT black?
Besides, the paradox is, your vaunted libnazi marxists are going to spend the next months dealing him out. Why not, just for fun, go check and see what color those marxists are, ppppperfect? Wanna take a guess who they are?
Better go study THAT and, by all means, come back and share with us. When you do, ask how a superdelegate can also be working on a cadidates election?
RE:'...stupid at what? They get most of their legislation passed. They, year after year, manage to push their agenda forward. This President has managed, with a whopping 35% approval rating, to get elected twice, beating guys who are, by their moronic followers FAR smarter. He has essentially accomplished most of what he came to Washington for.'
Well, I DID say that the Bushbaby has the edge on the Congresscritters. As for their legislation, take a hard look at it and you will understand why I am telling you that they are STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!
RE:'Whenever I pose THAT question i.e. the war, everyone takes a hike, because you either have to face the fact that Bush is the smart one, or the dems are totally without a conscience. Even then, GW might have just played them knowing they'd do it!'
And your point is? In the land of the blind the man who can see is KING. Are the Democrats without conscience? Absolutely! The Republican congresscritters have shown themselves to be very little better.
RE:'This, to me, doesn't sound like a man who's too dumb. A far more likely scenario is that he's exactly what he looks like: a guy who just wanted to come to DC, pass some legislation and go back into private life.'
Here, I will agree with you. The Bushbaby had no desire to get into a war that I could see, all the accusations of him being a bloodthirsty maniac notwithstanding.
RE:'9/11 changed all that, didn't it?'
Indeed it did.
RE:'Now, we needed a statesman who would make really bold moves and that is not the guy in the big chair. Sitting around a table, his guys tell him 'someone's going to have to deal with Saddam and you'll be damned if you do and damned if you don't'. Bush, who fully intened to deal with it from day one got his greenlight anyways.'
I beg your pardon. I don't know that this actually happened. What did happen was monumentally stupid. Going along with Sec. Def. Rumsfeld despite what his seasoned commanders were telling him was well and truly STUPID. You do realize that we are at very real risk of being tangled up in a four front war, right?
RE:'Down the road, all the nabobs in the Congress worked exactly the same calculus 'hey, let's get ol GW to bag Saddam, and then when the war comes, we can blame im for it! It's clean and neat and we won't be to blame!'
I ain't buyin' this one, SP4. This is not what I saw happen. What I saw happen is a furious American public push its leadership to do something against their better judgment. And, I might add, it was egged on by a number of the Bushbaby's advisers. Saddam was well-contained and OUR military knew he was well-contained and they told our President that he was well-contained. They also told him over and over and over not to go into Iraq as light as Rumsfeld demanded. What possessed him to prefer the judgment of Rumsfeld over the professionals who had been shot and hit a few times is anyone's guess. 'Here's your sign, George!'
RE:'Anyone blaming Hillary yet? Nothing more predictable than the dems.'
The Clinton Clan are basically just thieves, okay? Like all professional thieves, they are not without a little cunning, but they are both venal AND STUPID. At least we had the good sense not to elect John Kerry.
Re:'I'll agree ol GW and his ilk are stupid, the moment someone can show me on what subject. The war? Get in line.'
On conducting a war, for starters. The further down that road you go, the worse it gets.
'Kid??? BIGOT!!!!! RACIST!!!!! YOU BLEW IT RACIST!!!! '
LOL! grasping at straws much? Bigot?
'You are getting stupider by the minute'
'What a stupid reply, '
'Another stupid response.'
'you are even stupider than I thought'
None of that is a rebuttal, now is it? Kind of tells me that you have been made to feel... what's the word here... 'stupid'. :-D
'No but they do in Hawaii where he was educated you idiot liar SP4 Jr.'
Obama attended 'SDN Menteng 1' in Indonesia... When he attended another school in Indonesia he was registered as a Muslim.
'Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times (available online in a Baltimore Sun reprint) reported that the Obama campaign had retreated from that absolute statement and instead issued a more nuanced one: 'Obama has never been a practicing Muslim.' The Times looked into the matter further and learned more about his Indonesian interlude:
His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class.
The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. 'We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played,' said Zulfin Adi. … Obama's younger sister, Maya Soetoro, said in a statement released by the campaign that the family attended the mosque only 'for big communal events,' not every Friday.'
www.danielpipes.org/article/5354
Just so you know... :-D
'all for something you cannot even explain to a 3rd grader.'
I have tried to explain it to you: The change in leadership to competent generals and a competent secretary of defense (All McCain's early recommendations by the way) have turned the situation in Iraq around to the point where it would be immoral and, how do you say, 'stupid' to turn the hard won victory in to defeat by electing someone who is going to deliberately lose the conflict for short term domestic political points.
You might as well just send an invitation to al Qaeda to attack us again and another to Iran to occupy the country because this is exactly what they said we would do.
'If that is being racist, then I am guilty.'
Indeed, you are. You have admitted it here twice now:
Pperfect Nov 8th, 2007 - 02:27:55 'Now if that is a diatribe or makes me a bigot---tough sh-t'
'please point out where I said I was going to vote for Mr. Obama?'
So you are not? Arazona already had the primary. Presumably you voted for Obama because you have made such a fool out of yourself fawning over him here. So... Did you bother to vote? :-D
'And you boy was flip-flopping when he was a POW, giving statements to support the enemy.''
Well, you should be able to find some then... Like Kerry's 'gingas kahn' speech... Right? Let's hear them.
'Liar!'
See above...
'than is funny coming from one who hates anything that he does not agree on.'
LOL... firstly it is 'agree with' secondly you are the one who sails in and calls people names for having the audacity to post something that you disagree with. (More of your hypocrisy.) The first interaction I had with you that I can recall was objecting to this:
Pperfect- Feb 10th, 2008 - 21:06:22
'And we have heard from the idiot bigots!'
And I posted:
Feb 10th, 2008 - 21:27:06
'Calling people names because you disagree with them is childish.'
As it turns out, you just LOVE to call other people 'bigots' when you disagree with them:
Nov 4th, 2007 - 23:33:58 'Yes, that is SP4 the resident bigot.'
Jan 21st, 2008 - 02:46:31 'We all know he is the bigot of the board so anything he says 'makes him wrong'. What an idiot!'
So no, if you had a reasoned argument instead of hysterically calling other people names and stupidly condemning them for supposedly being EXACTLY what you have shown yourself to be I wouldn't have written a word about it. Since you sail in and accuse others of being bigoted for not buying in to your bigotry I couldn't resist pointing out your obvious, provable hypocrisy.
We clear yet? Bigot?
...these so called liberals sat, in one moment and decided to vote for this war. Not all of them mind you, but look who did! Think about it, like you said, they RAN into this war with the republicans! Liberals never had some kind of huge pressure to to this! Their constituencies certainly never polled as pushing it on them. They could have stood with their colleagues and made everyone take a pause, but no way, they ran headlong into it.
Politicians do things because they want to or they have to. The liberals certainly NEVER had to greenlight Iraq. I'm afraid the only reason left is the one no one wants to admit. One side felt they no reason not to go and the other saw every advantage in letting someone else do it for them.
It'd be different if they had done what Joe Lieberman did i.e. back the play but criticize Bush for mismanagement. Instead, they started backtracking almost the day we got there. They did not hesitate to pillory this president for every political gain they could muster.
No, it's undeniable why they voted to do this: they got a 2 for 1 sale and there is no way a person like Hillary is passing that up.
sp4 reminds me of our bigot neighbor.
and one of these days we are going to putting it plainly
...
kill him
RE:'...Liberals never had some kind of huge pressure to to this! Their constituencies certainly never polled as pushing it on them. They could have stood with their colleagues and made everyone take a pause, but no way, they ran headlong into it.'
No, no, no! You forget that world is not divided up in to hairy-chested Goopers and limp-wristed Democrats. Not all of the Democrat rank and file is from San Francisco. Many of them had as much blood in their eyes as you and I did at the time. A vote against the war at that time must have looked like political suicide, but then, that's what irks me about them. They expect our military people to climb out of the trenches when the time comes, so why did they not hold forth against the mess? That's why I want to throttle Yellow Hairy every time I see the scrawny little twerp on television. I've been watching these jerks for years. There ain't none of 'em bright enough to think ahead the way you think they do.
RE:'Politicians do things because they want to or they have to. The liberals certainly NEVER had to greenlight Iraq. I'm afraid the only reason left is the one no one wants to admit. One side felt they no reason not to go and the other saw every advantage in letting someone else do it for them.'
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think every last one of 'em is eaten up with a terminal case of the stupids. Let's just hope they don't drag us into the pit after 'em.
It'd be different if they had done what Joe Lieberman did i.e. back the play but criticize Bush for mismanagement. Instead, they started backtracking almost the day we got there. They did not hesitate to pillory this president for every political gain they could muster.
No, it's undeniable why they voted to do this: they got a 2 for 1 sale and there is no way a person like Hillary is passing that up.
We have a congressman who is such a fool, it's hard to bring up the anecdotal information, it's so embarrassing. One only need to look at the reps they send up to believe your theory. Arguably, they are capable of some of the most boneheaded stuff. Nonetheless, I feel it's far more likely that most of them weighed the variables, or at least their advisors did, and had a reason, or reasons for doing so.
We had two senators who protested two wars. The last one was Hatfield. Now this was a guy who did not vote for it and then rail every day.
Before we went into Iraq in 91, he got up on the floor, made an impassioned speech and then voted against it. He was specific and total in his dissent. Compare that to Kerry or Hillary. Pity Hatfield never ran, huh?
Saddam had to go. After he was captured, he admitted in his interrogation that while he'd stopped production of WMD's he fully intended to continue after the world went away. Saddam was the real WMD. He had used them, and the only target left was Israel. If this were allowed to happen, think of the crap we'd be bitching about now. The jews would nuke him, or worse. Moderate arabs gone, everyone out for blood.
Bush is a simple risk averse careerist. He never bargained for this and I feel he didn't really have this in mind when he started. 9/11 changed all that. It's my view he had to have had information that he felt necessitated a move, or moves.
It was a sh-t sandwich and everyone had to take a bite. Leave Saddam? No way. Now these internationalists can talk, but they go back to their offices and know you cannot let this just go on. Publicly, these euros and other leaders could not politically back this. Privately, they were happy to sit by and watch. Bush was playing cleanup boy for them.
Golly, I've never been threatened by a libnazi before! What are you going to do....heckle me to death?
Liberals...they are pacifists until you irk them and then they send their storm troopers and kill everyone in the house.(Waco)
Take your best shot.
'LOL! grasping at straws much? Bigot?'
Not much of a retort, you are pathetic. Your better than that!
'None of that is a rebuttal, now is it? Kind of tells me that you have been made to feel... what's the word here... 'stupid'. :-D'
There is nothing to rebuke, calling you stupid is just fun. As you have not told the truth or made a valid point, you would be the stupid one.
'Obama attended 'SDN Menteng 1' in Indonesia... When he attended another school in Indonesia he was registered as a Muslim.'
Until he was 10, he attended school in Indonesia, a 'registered Muslim'? You are a pathetic neo-con waste of brain cells. Your lies don't work, try another approach SP4 Jr.
''Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times (available online in a Baltimore Sun reprint) reported that the Obama campaign had retreated from that absolute statement and instead issued a more nuanced one: 'Obama has never been a practicing Muslim.' The Times looked into the matter further and learned more about his Indonesian interlude:
His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class.
The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. 'We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played,' said Zulfin Adi. … Obama's younger sister, Maya Soetoro, said in a statement released by the campaign that the family attended the mosque only 'for big communal events,' not every Friday.'
www.danielpipes.org/article/5354
Just so you know... :-D'
Just so you know , for one year he attended a Muslim school. Just like a neo-con take the smallest point and stretch it to fit your point of view. Just so you know you are still stupid and a liar.
'I have tried to explain it to you: The change in leadership to competent generals and a competent secretary of defense (All McCain's early recommendations by the way) have turned the situation in Iraq around to the point where it would be immoral and, how do you say, 'stupid' to turn the hard won victory in to defeat by electing someone who is going to deliberately lose the conflict for short term domestic political points.'
No, you have not tried to explain. You have tried to lie your way to a point that maybe SP4 would fall for your crap but not someone that can think past hating the Clintons. 'Victory', you call the situation in Iraq a Victory, I guess this is just like Afghanistan that you claimed your brother in law had just returned and we were winning there and had things under control. There is no victory in either Afghanistan or Iraq...stupid!
'You might as well just send an invitation to al Qaeda to attack us again and another to Iran to occupy the country because this is exactly what they said we would do.'
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Fear, fear and more fear, control the masses. Idotic to say the least.
'Indeed, you are. You have admitted it here twice now:'
Of course someone like you would not recognize someone being sarcastic. SP4 Jr.
'So you are not? Arazona (sp) already had the primary. Presumably you voted for Obama because you have made such a fool out of yourself fawning over him here. So... Did you bother to vote? :-D'
Of course I voted, but whom I voted for is none of your business.
'Well, you should be able to find some then... Like Kerry's 'gingas kahn' speech... Right? Let's hear them.'
Again idiot being sarcastic.
'See above...'
Nice retort SP4 Jr.
'LOL... firstly it is 'agree with' secondly you are the one who sails in and calls people names for having the audacity to post something that you disagree with. (More of your hypocrisy.) The first interaction I had with you that I can recall was objecting to this:'
Finally, you have the nerve to say something like that. Not only are you a liar but you are a self loathing idiot. When I first came on this board everytime someone posted something that was not red, white and blue, or did not fit into your neo-con world you called them, lets see: idiots, parasites, stupid, etc. What a joke you are. It would be funny if is was not such a shame.
And another thing, you must be a miserable old man with nothing to do. You save everything on this board. Get a life, you claim to be a 'blue-blood' and well educated, and a fighter pilot. Who knows what is the truth, but if you are all of these sitting on this board is a waste of that fine education. Maybe 20 people read your babble.
'So no, if you had a reasoned argument instead of hysterically calling other people names and stupidly condemning them for supposedly being EXACTLY what you have shown yourself to be I wouldn't have written a word about it. Since you sail in and accuse others of being bigoted for not buying in to your bigotry I couldn't resist pointing out your obvious, provable hypocrisy.'
Again from the King of the name calling crew. Not only a bigot but a hypocritical bigot.
'We clear yet? Bigot?'
Clear? Clarity comes from someone that believes in something so strongly they do not have to distort or lie. Your babble runs into both of these area quite often.
...I certainly don't mind insults, as I am still around. You are welcome to act the fool, via your posts. After all, no one is ppppperfect.
If, however, you would do us all a favor:
Practice brevity. Certainly, even you can manage to shorten your ignorant prose and stupid insults just a bit?
C'mon: be the man, huh?
'Not much of a retort,'
AAAh yes, it never fails to show itself... The 'ol 'I'm rubber you're glue defense'... Good work, When I say to you:'Not much of a retort' and you counter with the quite imaginative: 'Not much of a retort' you sting me with your rapier wit. I might as well be shouting in a cave to hear my own echo.
'As you have not told the truth or made a valid point, you would be the stupid one.'
I have made several valid points, you just can't sincerely address them without making yourself uncomfortable.
'Until he was 10, he attended school in Indonesia,'
By some accounts later but regardless, I thought you said 'Hawaii [is] where he was educated'... Gee, Hawaii and Indonesia are not the same place, are they? Did you 'lie' or are you just uninformed?`
'a 'registered Muslim'
Eeer no, that is not what was posted now is it? When you put quotations around something that was never said, that is a lie... The quote is that 'Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended.' A 'registered Muslim' doesn't make any sense. Registered in his Indonesian school AS a Muslim does. See?
' for one year he attended a Muslim school.'
I thought you said that he didn't?
' Just so you know you are still stupid and a liar.'
Words hurt... :-(
You just conceded that you were wrong and that I was telling the truth yet you are still trying to hurt my feelings with such 'hateful' commentary! Could it be that you just 'hate anything that [you do] not agree on'????
' Fear, fear and more fear, control the masses. Idotic[sic] to say the least.'
So al Qaeda doesn't want to attack us? I have seen what they do.
'Of course someone like you would not recognize someone being sarcastic.'
Back peddle much? The truth of the matter is obvious, bigot.
'Of course I voted, but whom I voted for is none of your business.'
LOL... Gee, I wonder. (Forgot you said you were from Arizona, eh? you can make up another location later, don't worry.)
'Again idiot being sarcastic.'
Calling someone who was abused in the Hanoi Hilton a traitor is not cute, funny or amusing. Sarcastic or not.
'Finally, you have the nerve to say something like that'
It is the fact! Deny it! :-D
'Not only are you a liar but you are a self loathing idiot. '
You haven't shown that I have lied, indeed you have conceded that I was telling the truth. And 'self loathing'? Come on! How can I be 'arrogant' and 'self loathing' at the same time? (I adore me!)
'lets see: idiots, parasites, stupid, etc.'
The first step in fixing a problem is to recognize that there is a problem... Some idiotic, parasitic bigots might not even realize that they are idiotic, parasitic bigots. I am just here to give them direction, I am actually here to HELP you idiots and parasites. (and bigots, of course)
'And another thing, you must be a miserable old man with nothing to do.'
Once again, you haven't been able to break my argument or even address it in a substantiate way. What are you reduced to? Lame speculation and ad hominem attacks. Don't you know that I am sensitive to such things?
'Who knows what is the truth, but if you are all of these sitting on this board is a waste of that fine education.'
Gee, I guess I have encountered a few of your sock puppets, eh? You are correct that this a waste of time, I will concede that readily.
'Again from the King of the name calling crew.'
The missed part of that was: 'If you had a reasoned argument instead of hysterically calling other people names'... I think you will find that I usually there is a reasoned argument shoehorned in among the name calling. In this case it was: Speaking about Barack Obamas complete lack of qualifications, his dubious past and affiliations is not Bigotry. Voting for him in spite of them because it would be somehow satisfying to have a black president is. Disqualifying qualified candidates because they are white is bigotry. Racism to be precise. You have basically proven my argument for me... That is how I got my crown. :-D
'Clarity comes from someone that believes in something so strongly they do not have to distort or lie.'
Where have I lied?
SP4....
'...I certainly don't mind insults, as I am still around. You are welcome to act the fool, via your posts. After all, no one is ppppperfect.'
You don't mind because you are to ignorant to understand that your rants do nothing to help your side, and without any facts (speaking of fools) they make you look like a fool. Fools don't mind anything.
'If, however, you would do us all a favor:
Practice brevity. Certainly, even you can manage to shorten your ignorant prose and stupid insults just a bit?'
I will be shorter in my responses if you will start telling the truth.
'C'mon: be the man, huh?'
Right, I know reading more than 3 paragraphs probably puts your brain on overload.
I will keep this as short as possible as a favor to SP4.
'AAAh yes, it never fails to show itself... The 'ol 'I'm rubber you're glue defense'... Good work, When I say to you:'Not much of a retort' and you counter with the quite imaginative: 'Not much of a retort' you sting me with your rapier wit. I might as well be shouting in a cave to hear my own echo.'---Your feeble attempts to make a valid point are so self defeating you may as well shout in a cave, as the only one that is listening to you is yourself.
'I have made several valid points, you just can't sincerely address them without making yourself uncomfortable.'---and again you have yet to make a 'valid' point---mostly right wing babble.
'By some accounts later but regardless, I thought you said 'Hawaii [is] where he was educated'... Gee, Hawaii and Indonesia are not the same place, are they? Did you 'lie' or are you just uninformed?`'---would those accounts be your right wing smear machine? Do the math 4 in one place 8 in another. Use your toes when you run out of fingers.
''Eeer no, that is not what was posted now is it? When you put quotations around something that was never said, that is a lie... The quote is that 'Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended.' A 'registered Muslim' doesn't make any sense. Registered in his Indonesian school AS a Muslim does. See?''---your smear is to make it appear that he is a Muslim, I like it when you act stupid, makes you look much better than just a liar.
'I thought you said that he didn't? '---I attended a Catholic school for 3 years (as it was the only school in the area I grew up), but I am not a Catholic. Possible don't you think or don't ypu think, just smear?
'You just conceded that you were wrong and that I was telling the truth yet you are still trying to hurt my feelings with such 'hateful' commentary! Could it be that you just 'hate anything that [you do] not agree on'????'---must be great to be a neo-con, always right? I have yet to concede anything to you in this argument. Dream on.
'So al Qaeda doesn't want to attack us? I have seen what they do.'---Where have I said they don't want to attach us? Trying to make up something again? Wow, am I suppose to be impressed with this statement---so have I!
'Back peddle much? The truth of the matter is obvious, bigot.'---Oh my god you really need treatment, show me where I am 'back peddling?
'LOL... Gee, I wonder. (Forgot you said you were from Arizona, eh? you can make up another location later, don't worry.)'---Must be having a flashback? This statement makes no sense?
'Calling someone who was abused in the Hanoi Hilton a traitor is not cute, funny or amusing. Sarcastic or not.'---intimating that somone is a Muslim in order to scare them away from coting for them is not cute, funny or amusing either. Read, not all people who were POW's think John McCain walks on water, should we believe their babble?
'It is the fact! Deny it! :-D'---your attempt to be cute, does not fit you. If being tired of old white men ruining this country makes me a bigot, so be it. I am an old white man bigot. Don't know if I will be able to sleep tonight after that admission.
'You haven't shown that I have lied, indeed you have conceded that I was telling the truth. And 'self loathing'? Come on! How can I be 'arrogant' and 'self loathing' at the same time? (I adore me!)'---Problem is you are telling half truths, most of the time half truths are the biggest lies. Typical for the right-wing hate machine.
'The first step in fixing a problem is to recognize that there is a problem... Some idiotic, parasitic bigots might not even realize that they are idiotic, parasitic bigots. I am just here to give them direction, I am actually here to HELP you idiots and parasites. (and bigots, of course)'---Help, you are a joke! I find it funny that you call ME the king of the name calling crew.
'Once again, you haven't been able to break my argument or even address it in a substantiate way. What are you reduced to? Lame speculation and ad hominem attacks. Don't you know that I am sensitive to such things?'---Your argument does not hold water. You have yet to prove one point in your argument, it is all speculation and half truths. I know in your world that is winning an argument, but not in the real world.
'Gee, I guess I have encountered a few of your sock puppets, eh? You are correct that this a waste of time, I will concede that readily.'---I love wasting the super astronaut's (liar) time.
'The missed part of that was: 'If you had a reasoned argument instead of hysterically calling other people names'... I think you will find that I usually there is a reasoned argument shoehorned in among the name calling. In this case it was: Speaking about Barack Obamas complete lack of qualifications, his dubious past and affiliations is not Bigotry. Voting for him in spite of them because it would be somehow satisfying to have a black president is. Disqualifying qualified candidates because they are white is bigotry. Racism to be precise. You have basically proven my argument for me... That is how I got my crown. :-D'---Your world again. Speculation, half truths, distortion, all part of the right wing smear machine. If you have half the education you claim you would not need to resort to this type of 'argument'. Makes you a liar and a bigot.
'Where have I lied?'---See above, the entire argument.
' as the only one that is listening to you is yourself.'
Evidentially.
'and again you have yet to make a 'valid' point---mostly right wing babble.'
I even gave you the cliffs notes version: 'In this case it was: Speaking about Barack Obamas complete lack of qualifications, his dubious past and affiliations is not Bigotry. Voting for him in spite of them because it would be somehow satisfying to have a black president is. Disqualifying qualified candidates because they are white is bigotry. Racism to be precise.'
It is not nice to call other people bigots when you are being racist. We all should always be nice. Like me.
'--would those accounts be your right wing smear machine?'
Like Wikpedia? It is just the fact, he went to school in Indonesia where his family registered him as a Muslim. It is not a 'smear' if it is truth. Are you afraid of the truth????? :-D
'--your smear is to make it appear that he is a Muslim, '
His family registered him as such. I will however take his word when he says he is now a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ, where they practice 'the black value system'... Would you like a look at that? It is just the fact of the matter, not a smear.
'I like it when you act stupid,'
No one could accuse you of acting. I meant that in a 'nice' way.
'Possible don't you think or don't ypu[sic] think, just smear?'
When I said he attended a school in Indonesia you called me a liar and said he was educated in Hawaii. When I trot out the name of this school he attended you accused me of 'smearing' your saint eer, candidate. When I cite evidence that he was registered by his family as a Muslim, he received religious training there and his sister has stated that they attended Mosque... well, you just don't want to hear that for some reason.
One thing you should know, The penalty that muslims give to those people who LEAVE their faith is death. (Note that is in no way a threat on my part, I am not a Muslim.)
'--must be great to be a neo-con,'
I am not a neocon, just fyi.
'always right? '
It has it's drawbacks.
'I have yet to concede anything to you in this argument.'
Must be great to be a moonbat, always denying the obvious.
'Where have I said they don't want to attach us?'
Well..'The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Fear, fear and more fear, control the masses. Idotic[sic] to say the least.' tells me that you just want to bury your head in the sand and ignore that we are fighting an enemy that is thoroughly despicable, ruthless and committed to our destruction. snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory in Iraq and Afghanistan, (And yes, victory is possible) will just bring them here. These monsters are not joking around and they are not going away. They have been doing this for 1300 years...
'---so have I!'
All the way from Arizona? I live in lower Manhattan and knew people who were incinerated at their desks for being infidels. I have no time for people who want to go easy on the pieces of s**t that did that. You can not appease them, you can not negotiate with them. They need to be tracked down and killed.
'Oh my god you really need treatment, show me where I am 'back peddling? '
Well, calling me a liar (sniff, sniff) for saying that Obama went to school in Indonesia and then admitting that he did but calling me stupid because you don't have the class to admit that I was right and that you were wrong.
'-intimating that somone[sic] is a Muslim in order to scare them away from coting[sic] for them is not cute'
I just gave you the facts. He has said that, despite his ancestry, the fact that his family registered him in school as such and upbringing that he is not a Muslim and I take him at his word as I have said 3 times now.
I fully concede that Barack Obama is a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ and an upholder of the 'black value system'. I also would like you to concede that you would NEVER vote for a white man who went to a church where they were upholders of a 'white value system'. (Neither would I)
'not all people who were POW's think John McCain walks on water,'
Who thinks he can walk on water? I just think he is the best qualified candidate among the 3.
'If being tired of old white men ruining this country makes me a bigot, so be it. I am an old white man bigot.'
I thought you were female... Didn't you say that you were previously?
Yes, voting for someone because of their race is bigotry. Yes, you are being bigoted. You seem to just glibly brush that off but it leads to poor decisions and it is not nice or even helpful to the causes that you want to advance.
'Problem is you are telling half truths'
WHERE? POINT THEM OUT!
'typical for the right-wing hate machine.'
Hate? You are judging me by your own yard stick. I do not hate Obama, I do not even know him. Tell me, would it be safe to assume that there are people on the 'right' that you hate? Hate is something else that clouds your judgment.
'I find it funny that you call ME the king of the name calling crew.'
I never called you that. However, despite the fact that I have to be 'nice' to idiots, liars and douche bags all day and I come here to vent, I am going to endeavor to be 'Mr.Nice' in the effort to persuade you of the unassailable logic and yes, truth of what I have posted.
'Your argument does not hold water. You have yet to prove one point in your argument, it is all speculation and half truths. '
Well, show me where I have lied. At this point you are basically stuffing your fingers in your ears and shouting 'LA LA LA LA' because you are cornered and your only resort is to ignore the obvious.
'I love wasting the super astronaut's (liar) time.'
I said I wanted to be one, not that I got in to the program. I just really, really liked Tang but I found out that you can buy it at the supermarket.
'Your world again. Speculation, half truths, distortion, all part of the right wing smear machine. If you have half the education you claim you would not need to resort to this type of 'argument'. Makes you a liar and a bigot.'
Gee, you like to call people 'liars' but you eventually concede that they are not lying. You like to call people 'bigots' but you have admitted here that your reasoning is tainted by bigotry. In summing up you throw all of that back at me with invective and shrill personal attacks... Even though it is inherently baseless. Just like the 'left wing smear machine', confusing volume with facts and defaulting to insults when you have no place left to go other then admitting that you are wrong.
'Where have I lied?'---See above, the entire argument.'
Not an argument, a rant, and you have yet to answer the question.
..the more you write the less you say. By all means, keep it up.
Nonetheless, none of that makes me wrong.
Time to man up, boy.
You either have to accept the heartbreak that Bush is at least smarter than his political opponents (not much of a stretch from where I sit!) or, that your libnazi leadership led you down the path of war for their own self-serving purposes.
Now, I'll admit that probably makes you cry like a little girl, but that is the equation you need to deal with.
Yep, ol GW jes sat back and said 'heck, we're gonna git whupped if'n wee doon't..s' lets jes git thire an kick some towelhaed ass!'
Give it up SP4, your rants are real old and you are wrong.
While this administration was full of intelligence, none of it rubbed off on your boy GWB. The crooks he surrounded himself happen to be very smart, devious and could care less about America. The best he had was Collen Powell, and he was even hung out to dangle in the wind---read his book so you can start bad mouthing him for having a different view ow GWB than you. The lies he told the United Nations still haunt the credibility of the US---let alone his credibility.
I am sure that GWB loves it when trolls like you are hanging on because Jesus told you to. And again SP4 you are a joke.
That Bush was stupid and the dems were smarter! Heck, I'll go with that!
So, it's true then, the dems just thought 'golly, this is our chance to rid ourselves of Saddam AND Bush all in one stroke!'.
Makes sense, except I think ol GW knew they were gonna bite! You see, he had the worm on the hook and look who wrapped their lips around it. NoHar is partially right, they may have been goaded into it, but given the constituancy, I really think they were prepping for 2004.
Saddam gone, but a war in progress, it would be perfect, except for the dems utter failure to understand the public.
Even Powell backed this play. Now here's a guy with real experience in Iraq. Ever wonder why he tied his line to the war? Well, he HAD to have had a reason! Certainly, HE knew about the WMD's! Heck, he was the one in the 90's who said 'the only real way to find them is to occupy the country.
Remember that? I'll bet you don't right? A lot of folks don't.
You know, you CAN make a good decision when you try! Now run along and beg that superdelegate of yours to vote correctly. Make sure you ask nice.
RE:'We have a congressman who is such a fool, it's hard to bring up the anecdotal information, it's so embarrassing. One only need to look at the reps they send up to believe your theory. Arguably, they are capable of some of the most boneheaded stuff. Nonetheless, I feel it's far more likely that most of them weighed the variables, or at least their advisors did, and had a reason, or reasons for doing so.'
If you really want to get to know them, watch them on C-Span. That's when their scripted and well-advised behavior breaks down. They often even forget the cameras are on them.
RE:'We had two senators who protested two wars. The last one was Hatfield. Now this was a guy who did not vote for it and then rail every day.'
And no one that I know of begrudged Mark Hatfield his moral sentiments and I know of no one who thought that he was anything completely sincere.
RE:'Saddam had to go. After he was captured, he admitted in his interrogation that while he'd stopped production of WMD's he fully intended to continue after the world went away. Saddam was the real WMD. He had used them, and the only target left was Israel.'
Oh, there was more than Israel on his target list, you can count on that, but this ignores the real advantage of having nuclear weapons in the Persian Gulf Area. All he ever had to do with his nukes, if he had ever managed to develop them, is to conduct one underground test. After that, he would have been the bully boy of the region. This fact is what makes the Bush Administration as nervous a cat on a hot tin roof over Iran. I think, but cannot prove, that Iran is what motivated the President to go into Iraq more than anything else.
His advisers, however, were a different matter. They wanted to go on a Democratic Jihad, spreading democracy to every country everywhere. Even worse, they wanted to do it on the cheap! Oh, and we should count Newt Gingrinch in on this little powwow during the build up to the war. They expected to make short work of Iraq and had that happened the way they expected we would have likely marched right on into Iran. From what I can see, that is what I believe they had on their weak little minds.
What we were hearing from the Neo-Cons, the real ones that is, was that the whole world is yearning to be free and that all that was really needed was for someone to come along and slay the tyrants. After that, forming new democracies would be all but automatic. According to the theory these new democracies would burst into existence as though they were popping corn. After all, who doesn't want to live free?
This stupid social theory of theirs has never been born out by history or even contemporary experience. It does not even match very well with our own history. It did not match very well with the behavior of defectors from communist countries to the United States. It does not match very well with the behavior of many prisoners who have served out their terms or have been released. The truth is, the majority does not like freedom and positively despises anything that resembles individualism. You want proof? Take a hard look at the Democrats and tell me what you see. After that, take a hard look at how the GOP behaves. It ain't pretty.
Despite all of the easily visible evidence to the contrary, the Neocons had absolute faith in their social theories and so we went into Iraq without enough people to take care of the country once the shooting stopped. Our military leaders knew better and told these space cadets that their theories were wrong and showed them the data. None of this impressed them in the least and Don Rumsfeld forced several good general officers to resign. We went into Iraq ignoring their advice and their carefully thought out plans and, guess what, our truly serious trouble began BEFORE the shooting stopped.
RE:'If this were allowed to happen, think of the crap we'd be bitching about now. The jews would nuke him, or worse. Moderate arabs gone, everyone out for blood.'
Forgive me, but I cannot seem to find any of these so-called 'moderate' Arabs. As far as I can tell, some of them are smarter and quieter as they go about achieving their aims. Many of them advocate 'peaceful coexistence'. Those are the ones who are smart enough to understand that time is on their side. Many of these quieter, 'moderate' Arabs are instigating trouble by encouraging the less patient of their number with money and religious instruction.
RE:'Bush is a simple risk averse careerist.'
Domestically, George Bush was bent on being one of the best Presidents we could have EVER had. Find me a Gooper willing to try and phase out Social Security. Find me one who will dare put the skids under the IRS. We will not get that from John McCain, you can bet. It's too bad that he fell in with the Neo-cons. It's too bad that he never read up on Ancient Athens and why the Framers of our Constitution never had a great deal of faith in democracy. He might have at least then had some influence on his advisers rather than being steered by them.
RE:'He never bargained for this and I feel he didn't really have this in mind when he started. 9/11 changed all that.'
His advisers, however, were eager to go into Iraq. They were looking for an excuse to go after Saddam Hussein and a great many Americans thought it was a mistake to leave Saddam in place at the end of the Persian Gulf War. Bush the Elder though, knew that he would find himself fighting a two front war. One in the Middle East and another back home and he decided to compromise by containing Saddam Hussein.
RE:'It's my view he had to have had information that he felt necessitated a move, or moves.'
I think he was worried about Iran more than he was Iraq. I also think that he was saddled with a very shaky situation in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are, despite their renowned piety, sitting on a powder keg. Invading Iraq and establishing bases there would have allowed us to invade any Middle Eastern country at the drop of a hat.
RE:'It was a sh-t sandwich and everyone had to take a bite. Leave Saddam? No way. Now these internationalists can talk, but they go back to their offices and know you cannot let this just go on. Publicly, these euros and other leaders could not politically back this. Privately, they were happy to sit by and watch. Bush was playing cleanup boy for them.'
One or two, perhaps, but most of them feared that the US would dominate the Middle East and then play favorites with the oil spigot. I think most of their objections were sincere. Besides, damned few leftists can think as clearly as you suggest. They wold not otherwise be leftists.
SP4, listen to Noharness. He backs things with facts, something you have no idea how to. His arguments are not the same thing over and over again---95% lacking anything to back them up.
Maybe. Bush didn't go into Iraq solely because of Iran. He may have stayed there for that reason, but face it, there was NEVER an exit strategy plan.
These guys thought the Iraqi's would form up a government quickly. They totally misunderstood the region, or, they simply didn't give a crap.(my guess i.e. too many advisors telling them otherwise)
Gingrich? My guess on him is he probably would be against going into Iraq, based on his opposition to the Bosnia mess. In the end, he backed Clinton, but real neocons don't like nation building.
Certainly Saudi, Iran, Kuwait were factors, but we had Saddam contained, so his move was to gas Israel. It was his only move left. This, or something like it, HAD to be a factor.
The goal of this exercise was to separate Bush myths from what any president sitting would do this for. Bush is a risk averse guy. None of this makes any sense without some underlying reason. To get elected? Hell, he GOT elected.
None of this would have happened with a spirited dissent in Congress. The reason the resolution was passed was because some dems decided it was worthwhile....for whatever reason.
For SP4 and his 30 second attention span I will try an keep it brief. It is made much easier as your 'points' are lacking any credibility, just right wing neo-con smear.
'Evidentially.'---Finally got you to admit that you talk to yourself. No one else wants to hear it.
'I even gave you the cliffs notes version: 'In this case it was: Speaking about Barack Obamas complete lack of qualifications, his dubious past and affiliations is not Bigotry. Voting for him in spite of them because it would be somehow satisfying to have a black president is. Disqualifying qualified candidates because they are white is bigotry. Racism to be precise.'---You use the cliff notes to get through your government funded ivy league education? 'dubious past and affiliations'---again with the rhetoric, you help write the smear book? White is not the issue---old is the issue.
'Like Wikpedia? It is just the fact, he went to school in Indonesia where his family registered him as a Muslim. It is not a 'smear' if it is truth. Are you afraid of the truth????? :-D'---Truth? You have yet to tell the whole truth, just a bunch of half truths. Or should I say Rush truths.
'His family registered him as such. I will however take his word when he says he is now a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ, where they practice 'the black value system'... Would you like a look at that? It is just the fact of the matter, not a smear.'---(what a dumb as-). we are back at the beginning---I have read the black value system, and only a person that would have a problem with people that are proud of their past, and wanting to support each other would be a bigot---that is you.
'No one could accuse you of acting. I meant that in a 'nice' way.'---Seeing how you are the one looking stupid here, take another look in the mirror.
'When I said he attended a school in Indonesia you called me a liar and said he was educated in Hawaii. When I trot out the name of this school he attended you accused me of 'smearing' your saint eer, candidate. When I cite evidence that he was registered by his family as a Muslim, he received religious training there and his sister has stated that they attended Mosque... well, you just don't want to hear that for some reason.
One thing you should know, The penalty that muslims give to those people who LEAVE their faith is death. (Note that is in no way a threat on my part, I am not a Muslim.)'---Again, liar. You said he attended a madrassa, and I said he went to school in Indonesia for 4 years and the rest of the time in Hawaii. Friggin liar, read your own crap.
'I am not a neocon, just fyi.'---You wish, hate the name but I think it fits you nicely.
'It has it's drawbacks.'---Your drawbacks are that you are wrong.
'Must be great to be a moonbat, always denying the obvious.'---What an idiot.
'Well..'The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Fear, fear and more fear, control the masses. Idotic[sic] to say the least.' tells me that you just want to bury your head in the sand and ignore that we are fighting an enemy that is thoroughly despicable, ruthless and committed to our destruction. snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory in Iraq and Afghanistan, (And yes, victory is possible) will just bring them here. These monsters are not joking around and they are not going away. They have been doing this for 1300 years...'---Victory is not possible, I guess you believe in the tooth fairy. You cannot kill all of them, no matter how much you believe that. We are loosing troops everyday and yet there is no defined 'victory'. Please define victory to us, enlighten the masses.
'All the way from Arizona? I live in lower Manhattan and knew people who were incinerated at their desks for being infidels. I have no time for people who want to go easy on the pieces of s**t that did that. You can not appease them, you can not negotiate with them. They need to be tracked down and killed.'---As smart as you are you probably know people can move don't you? You going to kill all of them? It really does not matter what you think. Only one vote, just like me!
'Well, calling me a liar (sniff, sniff) for saying that Obama went to school in Indonesia and then admitting that he did but calling me stupid because you don't have the class to admit that I was right and that you were wrong.'---again I have called you a liar for saying he attended a madrassa not for going to school in Indonesia, and I have done that again (see above).
'I just gave you the facts. He has said that, despite his ancestry, the fact that his family registered him in school as such and upbringing that he is not a Muslim and I take him at his word as I have said 3 times now.
I fully concede that Barack Obama is a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ and an upholder of the 'black value system'. I also would like you to concede that you would NEVER vote for a white man who went to a church where they were upholders of a 'white value system'. (Neither would I)'---please see above, continually repeating half truths never makes them the truth.
Who thinks he can walk on water? I just think he is the best qualified candidate among the 3.---glad you only have one vote, just like me.
'I thought you were female... Didn't you say that you were previously?'---How could this possibly have anything to do with the argument?
'Yes, voting for someone because of their race is bigotry. Yes, you are being bigoted. You seem to just glibly brush that off but it leads to poor decisions and it is not nice or even helpful to the causes that you want to advance.'---flashbacka again?
WHERE? POINT THEM OUT!---Everything you have said in regards to his religion, education and upbringing is half-truths.
'Hate? You are judging me by your own yard stick. I do not hate Obama, I do not even know him. Tell me, would it be safe to assume that there are people on the 'right' that you hate? Hate is something else that clouds your judgment.'---Didn't say you hated Obama, your hate is the distain you have for anyone that has a different point of view from yourself. I don't hate anyone on the right (maybe SP4) but I hate what they have done to this country.
'I never called you that. However, despite the fact that I have to be 'nice' to idiots, liars and douche bags all day and I come here to vent, I am going to endeavor to be 'Mr.Nice' in the effort to persuade you of the unassailable logic and yes, truth of what I have posted.'---What you work in a whorehouse?
'Well, show me where I have lied. At this point you are basically stuffing your fingers in your ears and shouting 'LA LA LA LA' because you are cornered and your only resort is to ignore the obvious.'---again see above. You have yet to get me in the corner.
'I said I wanted to be one, not that I got in to the program. I just really, really liked Tang but I found out that you can buy it at the supermarket.'---now that was funny.
Gee, you like to call people 'liars' but you eventually concede that they are not lying. You like to call people 'bigots' but you have admitted here that your reasoning is tainted by bigotry. In summing up you throw all of that back at me with invective and shrill personal attacks... Even though it is inherently baseless. Just like the 'left wing smear machine', confusing volume with facts and defaulting to insults when you have no place left to go other then admitting that you are wrong.---only when they lie or tell half-truths. I have not admitted that my reasoning is tainted by bigotry.
'Not an argument, a rant, and you have yet to answer the question.'---not a rant, the truth.
RE;'Maybe. Bush didn't go into Iraq solely because of Iran. He may have stayed there for that reason, but face it, there was NEVER an exit strategy plan.'
I beg disagree! There most certainly was an exit plan. The problem was, that the exit plan was unworkable in the very beginning and our Neocon leadership was so blinded by their faith in their theories that they did not have a Plan B at the ready.
RE:'These guys thought the Iraqi's would form up a government quickly. They totally misunderstood the region, or, they simply didn't give a crap.(my guess i.e. too many advisors telling them otherwise)'
Precisely my point.
RE:'Gingrich? My guess on him is he probably would be against going into Iraq, based on his opposition to the Bosnia mess. In the end, he backed Clinton, but real neocons don't like nation building.'
Oy vey! Newt Gingrinch was in Centcomm headquarters for months, pontificating and pronouncing and criticizing and offering his 'wisdom' at every turn. The Neocons are leftists at heart. They LOVE nation building!
RE:'Certainly Saudi, Iran, Kuwait were factors, but we had Saddam contained, so his move was to gas Israel. It was his only move left. This, or something like it, HAD to be a factor.'
Saddam Hussein was a tied and plucked chicken. Our leaders were so eager to on their Democratic Jihad that they became possessed with an 'idee fixe' or 'fixed idea.' They were so locked on target that they ignored all evidence that contradicted their claims, just as they ignored all the evidence that contradicted their social theories. They were COMPLETELY blinded by the little cage of rules that they had made for themselves and all outside advice was regarded as interference.
RE:'The goal of this exercise was to separate Bush myths from what any president sitting would do this for. Bush is a risk averse guy. None of this makes any sense without some underlying reason. To get elected? Hell, he GOT elected.'
And Iran equipped with both atomic bombs and aircraft to deliver them was certainly motivation enough. Do you have any idea what an Hiroshima class nuke would do to a squadron of ships in a narrow waterway like the Persian Gulf? Believe me, that would NOT be pretty.
RE:'None of this would have happened with a spirited dissent in Congress. The reason the resolution was passed was because some dems decided it was worthwhile....for whatever reason.'
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. The Dem's were not afraid of George Bush. They were scared spitless of US, the exceedingly angry American public. At that point in time, we were ready to stomp every ass from the Pacific coast to the Caucus Mountains. Any politician foolish enough to have stood in OUR way would have found himself facing a challenge in the very next primary race. The Democrats are not smart enough to plan the things you suggest. I have watched them for a long time. The smartest one of the Democrats in the House was Tom Lantos and he never not once wavered in his support for the invasion of Iraq. His motivation for invading Iraq was as plain as day. None of the rest of that bunch can think their way out of a wet paper sack. Just watch and listen to Nancy Pelosi. Between bouts of nausea you will suddenly discover that her IQ is somewhere around 90.
'--Finally got you to admit that you talk to yourself.
Only because you are emblematic of the typical leftist mentality: You only want to hear what you want to hear.
'No one else wants to hear it.'
So that is your objective? Shutting me up when I say that Obama was in fact registered as a Muslim in an Indonesian school that had a madrassah component? Or that he belongs to a church that espouses the ''the black value system''.. Oh, too bad, you are going to be hearing plenty of negative things about Barack in the coming months. People SHOULD be informed about this clown before they have to make a decision. Objecting that someone is telling them the truth is pretty infantile.
'dubious past and affiliations'---again with the rhetoric,'
It is the case. How can it be a 'smear' if it is the truth? Please answer that.
'Truth? You have yet to tell the whole truth, just a bunch of half truths.
Really, that is getting very old. You can not cite anything that I have said that is inaccurate yet you continue to label it as such. It is this incredible capacity to willfully not see the obvious that I find exasperating. You simply do not want to see something so you do not see it. That can't be working well for you in other areas of your life.
'Or should I say Rush truths.'
I do not, haven't ever listened to Rush Limbaugh. I might have heard the band 'Rush' as a teenager. Either way, lets suppose someone who you didn't like were telling you something. Does that automatically make it false? That seems to be the way you engage reality.
'-I have read the black value system, and only a person that would have a problem with people that are proud of their past, and wanting to support each other would be a bigot'
It is not a matter of being proud of their past, it is a matter of predicating their 'value' system on race. Are you trying to tell me that you would vote for a WHITE man who went to a 'church' that preached: 'Commitment to the White Community' (only hire white folk) 'Commitment to the White Family' (Keep the races separate) 'Adherence to the White Work Ethic' (WTF?) ' Disavowal of the Pursuit of 'Middleclassness'' (The middle class is the backbone of this country yet we are talking about voting for someone who has pledged to reject it.) 'Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community' on and on and on... You would vote for some white guy who believes that racist nonsense? Answer that please. I certainly wouldn't.
'Again, liar. You said he attended a madrassa,'
A madrassah is a school with a Islamic religious component. That is what he attended, and he attended it as a Muslim.
'and I said he went to school in Indonesia for 4 years and the rest of the time in Hawaii.'
Well, you posted this: 'No but they do in Hawaii where he was educated you idiot liar SP4 Jr.'... No mention of Indonesia there.
'You wish, hate the name but I think it fits you nicely. '
As I said, hate clouds judgment, you seem to be consumed by it. If Bush told you to not to jump off a bridge you would be over the side in a heartbeat. Has it ever occurred to you that mindset makes it easy to manipulate you? You are being yanked around by your nose by your prejudices and your 'hate' and you think that you are taking a reasoned stand for something. You haven't been able to articulate one yet.
'Victory is not possible'
So we should just roll over and follow bin ladens terms of surrender. We should convert to islam en masse, adopt Sharia law, retreat to our borders and give up our alliances with other countries. That is what he has said will appease him.
'You cannot kill all of them, no matter how much you believe that.'
No, but you can kill enough of them to make someone think twice about joining their jihad. More importantly you can humiliate them which to that mindset is even worse. The ones who will never give up until there is a new calaphate that strides the world certainly do need to be killed.
'Please define victory to us, enlighten the masses.'
In Iraq victory is establishing a government that is not inherently hostile to he United States, that embraces modernity over islamist backwardness, that is stable and not a threat to it's neighbors, that will not attack our allies in the region, that will not support terrorism on a state level, that is sovereign, capitalist, that sells it's oil on the open market and most importantly one that has rejected al Qaeda... ALL OF WHICH ARE BEING ACHIEVED. All of that progress is jeopardized by these idiots who are desperately trying to lose us this war. The consequences for this country would be catastrophic if Barack Obamna were allowed to turn Iraq over to al Qaeda and Iran which is what he has pledged to do.
'-As smart as you are you probably know people can move don't you?'
I do not believe you.
'again I have called you a liar for saying he attended a madrassa not for going to school in Indonesia,'
'Madrasah (Arabic: مدرسة, madrasa pl. madāris) is the Arabic word for any type of school, secular or religious (of any religion). It is variously transliterated as madrasah, madarasaa, medresa, madrassa, madraza, etc.'
Madrassah means school, In Barack Obamas case he attended a school in a Islamic country with a partial Islamic curriculum and he was registered at this madrassah as a Muslim. That is not a lie, unless his sister and the record keepers at these schools are liars.
So repeating over and over that it is a 'lie' is a bit ridicules at this point.
'-please see above, continually repeating half truths never makes them the truth.'
What specifically there is a 'half truth'? Please answer that.
'-How could this possibly have anything to do with the argument?'
Because you said that you were an 'I am an old white man bigot'. Perhaps you just meant that you hate old white men. Either way, not very admirable of you.
'flashbacka[sic] again?'
That was a non answer to 'Yes, voting for someone because of their race is bigotry. Yes, you are being bigoted. You seem to just glibly brush that off but it leads to poor decisions and it is not nice or even helpful to the causes that you want to advance.''
I am getting the idea that you have no problem with SOME kinds of bigotry as long as they are the kinds that you agree with. I am sure the Klu klux Klan would agree with that.
'Everything you have said in regards to his religion, education and upbringing is half-truths.'
No, and I have cited sources to back what I have said up. Simply calling it a lie is not refuting anything I have said. On the one hand I am glad the truth bothers you, hopefully that means that you recognize that there is something inherently wrong with the reasoning behind your support for this fellow. On the other hand the fact that you do not want to hear legitimate criticism, and seek to stifle it tells me though, that you do not care about the truth, you just want what you want and are being a spoiled brat about it. Either way, people have a right to know about this.
'Didn't say you hated Obama, your hate is the distain you have for anyone that has a different point of view from yourself. '
Nope, you are wrong. I don't hate you. Just do not expect me to jump on your bandwagon or adopt your opinions when I can challenge them like I have and your only response to a reasoned, referenced argument is to call me a 'liar'.
Where have I lied? Don't just write 'see above', be specific.
'--only when they lie or tell half-truths.'
You have yet to point out a lie that I have written. Indeed, that seems to be your only defense at this point. Jamb your fingers in your ears and repeat that over and over. It just looks infantile at this point.
'I have not admitted that my reasoning is tainted by bigotry.'
Well yes, you have, several times now. Would you like me to cut and paste them? Starting with: 'I am an old white man bigot'...
'not a rant, the truth.'
Not even close. A lame and deliberately obtuse closing yourself off to something that makes you uncomfortable to confront. I always find it sadly amusing me when I see someone who regards themselves as 'liberal' to be, in reality, seriously closed minded. That is the bandwagon you are hopping on.
So, if you are just going to lamely call me a liar over and over Mr.Nice is going to retire and the 'King of the name calling crew' is going to come out and bludgeon you with his royal scepter.
'So, if you are just going to lamely call me a liar over and over Mr.Nice is going to retire and the 'King of the name calling crew' is going to come out and bludgeon you with his royal scepter.'
Only in your own weak little mind. Give it your best shot, your rhetoric does not convince anyone---one vote for you---one vote for me.
'your rhetoric does not convince anyone-'
In other words you are a bigot who only sees what she wishes to see... how astonishing.
By the way, that's one carefully measured decision for me, one bigotry borne, bandwagon hopping, manipulated expression of your gullibility for you.
Forgot to mention not only do I have one vote, being a college professor I have a lot of influence over a lot of first time voters. They know what they want so I guess it is one vote for you thousands for us.
'In other words you are a bigot who only sees what she wishes to see... how astonishing.'
And you call yourself educated. Must of 'Cliff Noted' your way through MIT and probably never finished. English must not have been your strong subject?
'Forgot to mention not only do I have one vote, being a college professor I have a lot of influence over a lot of first time voters.'
Lets assume for the sake of argument that you are not full of it and someone was actually stupid enough to trust you with young people. I am sure that your home economics class at the community college will be as bowled over by your inarticulate hissy fit as I was.
'They know what they want so I guess it is one vote for you thousands for us.'
I think it is telling that you already regard their votes as yours. What that tells me is that you are not very good at your job. Teaching is about enabling students to go through the thought processes to make rational decisions. Since you haven't been taught that you go to what you know: Indoctrination. Having come this far with your deliberate anti-intellectual mind set and your hysterical bigotry I think it is a safe bet that they are just laughing at the obnoxious fool who is trying to foist her opinions off on them instead of doing the job she was hired to do.
'And you call yourself educated. '
As a matter of fact I do. There is a big difference between education and simply regurgitating the opinions that have been fed to you. I do not regard you as any more educated then a trained parrot. I was able to recognize early on the opinion pushers who laughably regarded themselves as 'teachers' or 'professors'. That freed me up to critically analyze things for myself, without prejudice. Something that you have shown yourself completely incapable of doing.
Oh, I forgot to mention: Not only do I have one vote; having money, being articulate, reasoned and connected gives me a hell of a lot more opportunity to effect this election then you will get whining at the kids you are screwing up. Indeed, since your psyco-babble seems to be the quality of the oppositions argument... seeing as it is basically the ONLY thing the opposition is offering you are messing with your kids minds to no effect. (Provided they haven't tuned you out completely by now.)
'cankles', now that hurts---not really coming from someone who probably has a big gut, flabby as- and a short penis. Plus if I remember correctly someone else on this board already 'outed' you boy toy.
Hey boy-toy:
'Lets assume for the sake of argument that you are not full of it and someone was actually stupid enough to trust you with young people. I am sure that your home economics class at the community college will be as bowled over by your inarticulate hissy fit as I was.'
Now you are really grasping, getting desperate? 1st 2nd or 3rd largest university in the country, depends on who is counting.
'I think it is telling that you already regard their votes as yours. What that tells me is that you are not very good at your job. Teaching is about enabling students to go through the thought processes to make rational decisions. Since you haven't been taught that you go to what you know: Indoctrination. Having come this far with your deliberate anti-intellectual mind set and your hysterical bigotry I think it is a safe bet that they are just laughing at the obnoxious fool who is trying to foist her opinions off on them instead of doing the job she was hired to do.'
The only thing that is 'telling' is your ignorance. I have tenure so I really don't have to do a good job enough to please a neo-con nut-job like you. And idiot, I did not convince my students of anything. If you had used your vast file-system you would see that I originally supported Ms. Clinton---my students convinced me to switch to Mr. Obama. So your theory just does not support a thing you have said. Now to make sure you understand, there were 2762 students that put $20 into a pot to send to Mr. Obama. Now I know the math may be a bit up there for you, but that is $55,240 in one drive. And they can do it every month and get more from their friends---from just one university.
'As a matter of fact I do. There is a big difference between education and simply regurgitating the opinions that have been fed to you. I do not regard you as any more educated then a trained parrot. I was able to recognize early on the opinion pushers who laughably regarded themselves as 'teachers' or 'professors'. That freed me up to critically analyze things for myself, without prejudice. Something that you have shown yourself completely incapable of doing.'
Like you are not the regurgitating king---what a joke. Everything you say on this board comes from the neo-con republican't playbook. You are probably arrogant enough to think they are your thoughts, but sorry---playbook. By the way you are not doing a very good job of 'critically analyze things for myself' you could fill in for Rush any day he needed to recover from his drug hangover.
'Oh, I forgot to mention: Not only do I have one vote; having money, being articulate, reasoned and connected gives me a hell of a lot more opportunity to effect this election then you will get whining at the kids you are screwing up. Indeed, since your psyco-babble seems to be the quality of the oppositions argument... seeing as it is basically the ONLY thing the opposition is offering you are messing with your kids minds to no effect. (Provided they haven't tuned you out completely by now.)'
Wow, so impressive, money articulate, reasoned and connected---wow. You can do all you want by you are not going to make one dam bit of difference. Again my kids whom most are the age to be stupid enough to go over to Iraq to be ground into fodder by an administration that cannot do anything but blah-blah-blah democracy this democracy that, all for a group of people who were content to have Saddam running things. They are the ones that have to die so you neo-con nuts can get an erection watching the dead troops come home. It is this group of people that is going to show you that no matter how much money you have , how articulate (questionable), reasoned (real questionable) and connected (hope you at least get a reach around for this one toyboy), they are the ones that are going to determine the next election. I don't believe you are going to get a group of 'kids' to vote for one that is older than their grandparents.
' coming from someone who probably has a big gut, flabby as- and a short penis.'
OK Rosanne, we get it; the constant rejection has turned you against men. Don't blame the gender, blame the gag reflex. Why don't you handle it your usual way and curl up with a gallon of Ben and Jerry's to take the edge off. That should help with the hot flashes as well.
'Plus if I remember correctly someone else on this board already 'outed' you'
Well no, surprisingly enough you do not remember correctly. Add homophobia to your list of pet hates. Bigot. Besides, how could I be gay? You and I have never dated.
'1st 2nd or 3rd largest university in the country, depends on who is counting.'
Add inability to count to your list of handicaps then.
' I have tenure'
So did Ward Churchill. That doesn't make you a good or effective teacher. Indeed, it only signifies that you have traded your reason away for the orthodoxy that lamentably passes for scholarship in the cloistered academic atmosphere. (Especially in those less competitive schools where you don't have to publish to get tenure.) We can just add you to the long list of incompetents who ran back to the last place that she had a wee bit of success at who is locked in to the mindset that gets rewarded there. Just don't expect to be taken seriously outside the echo chamber if you can't back your ideas with a reasoned argument.
'so I really don't have to do a good job enough '
A 'good job enough'... please don't tell me that it is English that you supposedly teach.
Once again:
'I have tenure so I really don't have to do a good job enough '
In other words, it is difficult to fire you so you can continue to be lousy at what you do. You are breaking a sacred trust that has been placed in you. You have forgone your calling to inform and replaced it with one to manipulate. You are doing this to people who are impressionable. If I thought you had the capacity to be ashamed I would advise you that you should be. Seeing that you are a selfish little spoiled brat who just wants what she wants and doesn't care about how she gets it I won't bother.
'And idiot, I did not convince my students of anything.'
Or teach them no doubt. Tell me, do you ever do any classwork out there in Arizona which has somehow become the the home of the 1st 2nd or 3rd largest university in the country?
'If you had used your vast file-system you would see that I originally supported Ms. Clinton---my students convinced me to switch to Mr. Obama.'
Congratulations bandwagon hopper, you let the 'academic' echo chamber make another decision (You know, the one that you can't defend worth a damn) for you. So if you can't defend it to one of us Neanderthals who are out in society actually 'doing' by all means retreat to your own little intolerant, anti-intellectual world for the validation that insecure people crave. I am sure that following the herd makes you 'feel' that your 'reasoning' is unassailable. It hasn't proven to be the case out here though, has it?
' Now to make sure you understand, there were 2762 students that put $20 into a pot to send to Mr. Obama.'
You would have thought that would have made the news... I couldn't find anything about students from Arizona donating their beer money to obama. That is something else that doesn't add up, sort of like... you moved to Arazona from New York after 9/11/01 to teach in the 1st 2nd or 3rd largest university in the country and were given tenure in record time.... Hummmm.
'Like you are not the regurgitating king---what a joke.'
Aaah yes, once again the 'ol I am rubber you're glue gambit. As always, quite imaginative.
'Everything you say on this board comes from the neo-con republican't playbook.'
Gee, 'republican't'... Nothing that says 'dailykos' like that. (Another herd that you like to feel safe in no doubt.) And where could I see a copy of this 'neo-con' play book? If it is from a 'play-book' It should have been possible for you to put fourth a reasoned counterargument instead of this meaningless psyco-babble. What does that say about your thinking skills when the only thing that you can do in the face of some 'idiot' who is following some kind of 'playbook' is to repeatedly call him a 'liar'? Even when this 'idiot' has cited references that you can not refute? I guess that makes YOU the idiot.
'You are probably arrogant enough to think they are your thoughts, but sorry---playbook.'
Well then, certainty you can cite this 'playbook' that has tricked me in to a 'false consciousness'? Otherwise you would be a paranoid clown...
' By the way you are not doing a very good job of 'critically analyze things for myself''
And where have I gone wrong? Not that I expect that you will answer that as you have ignored my other questions repeatedly. You only see what you want to see. How 'open minded'. You hate people you disagree with, how 'liberal'. You regard yourself as 'educated' for parroting the ideas that have been positively reinforced with the bandwagon validation that you are needy enough to crave... You are a study in self deception and mental masturbation.
' you could fill in for Rush any day he needed to recover from his drug hangover.'
I wouldn't know, however, we are back to the whole 'just because you 'hate' someone doesn't make them wrong' part of the program. You have yet to disprove anything I have asserted. Just poured out your psyco-babble.
'Wow, so impressive, money articulate, reasoned and connected---wow'
I know, not quite the lofty title of hysterical, insecure drama queen who needs to believe what she wants to believe regardless of whatever evidence is confronting her in order to have the validation of her peer group. I will have to console myself that we raise more at our fundraisers then you do at your keg parties, even if I did lose a shirt stud at the last one. :-D
'You can do all you want by you are not going to make one dam bit of difference.'
I think unqualified Obama and his narcissistic wife will actually do themselves in in spectacular fashion. You can bet though that if there is anything I can do to help them in that endeavor I, and many more like me will be more then happy to help.
'Again my kids whom most are the age to be stupid enough to go over to Iraq'
Your kids eh? Another telling bit of ranting psyco-babble from the inarticulate gender studies teacher. If someone is in the Armed forces of the USA they are 'stupid'?
'by an administration that cannot do anything but blah-blah-blah democracy this democracy that,'
You don't like democracy either, eh? I wonder if they make a burqua in your size? Sure... It just says 'Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey' on the side.
'hey are the ones that have to die so you neo-con nuts can get an erection watching the dead troops come home.'
Not a 'neo con' and that is also telling of just how crazy you are. Those troops that you like to disparage died to keep you safe and secure. Too bad you have used their sacrifice to become an overgrown spoiled child who has the audacity to look down your nose at better people then yourself.
'how articulate (questionable)'
There is no question as to you being an inarticulate idiot.
'reasoned (real questionable)'
There is no question as to you being an irrational, shrill fool who can not articulate a reasoned counterargument. You are with out question a bigoted, braying ass with hypocritical delusions of moral superiority to rationalize your fundamental moral cowardice.
' and connected (hope you at least get a reach around for this one toyboy)'
You can add obvious sexual frustration to the long list of your mental maladies. I wonder why the guys don't go for such a needy, nasty shrew?
'they are the ones that are going to determine the next election.'
That is what they said about the last one, and the one before that. Indoctrinate harder because it ain't working. Either that or perhaps your imagined toy soldiers are just telling you what you want to hear. Maybe you need to just stop paying lip service to 'education' and start in with the 'reeducation'. Not that you wouldn't blow that as well...
'I don't believe you are going to get a group of 'kids' to vote for one that is older than their grandparents.'
Nice little echo chamber you inhabit. What do you want to bet that Arizona goes to McCain? Poor dear... All that indoctrination for naught! LOL!
Try and follow:
Rosanne is the person you wake up next each morning being a her/him.
A gay-sexist-bigot. Must have some proud parents? By the way nothing wrong being gay as long as you don't try and hide it trying to be a Republican't.
Not as smart as I thought, couldn't figure that one out.
Tenure means never having to say your sorry to a bunch of neo-con Jesus freak neo-cons, you and your buddies (butt buddies as they may be). By the way I have published, not a smart as you think. Amazes me that just because I don't believe as you do, I can't be anything...How shallow.
Math, but thanks for the correction.
No, it is next to impossible to fire me as my credentials and accomplishments rate me in the top 10% of the structure. Nothing to be ashamed about, send lots and lots of students into the workplace so they can replace neo-con dribble like you.
Again, to complicated to get it. Think deeply---don't hurt yourself.
No, you see people who can think for themselves have the ability to understand when to question and when to change. That would not be something a neo-con like you would even come close to understanding, as you are too lock stepped to dare question your/their mis-steps. Just keep pushing your antiquated thoughts and have others fight your battles for you, it doesn't cost you a thing. (please don't tell me war stories, I get enough of them from those who come bacy from your war).
I guess all herds need someone to lead, I am there. Speaking of herds, nice to see yours slitting apart because your 'brothers' do not believe that Mr. McCain is conservative enough. He is still kissing the as- that it takes to get these creeps to back him. He has just started and it is a shame what he has to go through just to get a chance.
Just because you do not have the ability to find something it must be wrong huh? Again with the not understanding? Thought you were smarter that that, guess I am wrong. It has been in the news along with other Universities doing the same thing.
Again 'what a joke.'
Can't find books either. Go to your local bookstore and ask for the bullshi- (right wing) section you will find plenty of copies of the right wing playbook. Does not matter who wrote them they are all the same. Coulter, Limbaugh, etc., etc., Same old crap different neo-con. Calling bullshi- to your rants and then you say the same old crap over and over again, you and SP4. Playbook to me.
I have pointed out numerous times your 'half truths' and you refuse to admit anything. Good debater! Neo-con at your best.
Your whole premise is wrong. You keep trying to make people think Mr. Obama is a Muslim. Mention his first name just so some redneck in Alabama would wake up and pay attention, state that he is educated in a muslim school, etc., etc. All half truths and the only reason you do this is you are afraid of a black man kicking your war hero's (old) as-. If the people want the young man, they will elect him. If the people want the old man, they will elect him.
I have proved your points to be half truths numerous times---half truths are often the biggest lies. But of course lies do not bother you as long as you get your way. Neo-con playbook.
'Again 'wow', you impress me---not! Is the reference to 'stud' suppose to impress me? You also must have lost your mind. Are you sure it was a shirt stud????
You could not possibly help in anyway except your checkbook. I am sure even your friends laugh at you behind your back. An arrogant prick is even an arrogant prick to the right wingers. Of course they will take your money, but will sell you down the river the first chance they get.
I spend more time with them for 4 - 6 years than their parents. The stupid part comes when they think that this administration cares for them. Check out all the Veterans websites and find out how well the walking wounded is being taken care of. Please send them a shirt stud so they can afford another therapy session.
Absolutely love democracy, just not your kind of democracy. Good thing about a democracy is I can believe that way. No the the 'Ringling Bros., and Barnum & Bailey' outfit is for the one you wake up next too, her/him.
You may need to go to a therapist to get over this 'Not a neo-con' crap. It is OK, accept it and let it flow. It only makes you look stupid and stupid only hurts a little. To 'keep me safe and secure'---says you! I would just as soon have them here to protect us on our soil. And just because you served, that does not make you so special that you get two votes---one for you and one for me. I actually look up to them, only look down at them when you idiots loose another in your war.
Showing your insecurity. Being beat by a girl!
And you are a neo-con who will not accept anything except the brainwashed thoughts of other neo-con and then have the audacity to pawn them off as your ideas.
And yes I do believe that I am better than you as I can reason, admit when something is wrong and speak out about it and not follow the 'braying ass's' currently occupying the Whitehouse. Just because I don't walk lock-stepped with you and yours, that does not make me a coward, just a superior thinker---to you!
'Mental maladies' wow your words just make me want to faint. I bet you don't have a problem with the guys.
Well we will see if it works out this time around. The young have voted in droves in the current primaries, but I know that would mean the end for your 'old grey one' so you don't believe it!
One for the 'old grey one' and the rest for the 'new voice'. Works for me!
'Try and follow:'
Well, seeing as you are too goddamned stupid to post the quote you are responding to this whole portion of your diatribe is even more nonsensical then your previous. And that is saying something. What an idiot. You truly are. What are you going to do to make yourself look like an even bigger moron next?
'Rosanne is the person you wake up next each morning being a her/him.'
What does that even mean you moron? Are you smoking crack or something? 'Each morning being a her/him'... You are far too inarticulate to be teaching anything other then crybaby 101.
'A gay-sexist-bigot.'
You are the only one who keeps tossing out homosexuality as an insult. If I were gay I would probably announce it. It just so happens that I am not.
The fact that you are repeatedly trotting it out is further evidence of your playground mentality and your overall bigotry. As if that were needed.
'Tenure means never having to say your sorry to a bunch of neo-con Jesus freak neo-cons, you and your buddies (butt buddies as they may be)'
LOL, 'bunch of neo-con Jesus freak neo-cons' From the department of redundancy department. Where have I brought up Jesus? Congratulations bigot, you slurred Christians AND homosexuals in the same the same psyco-babble sentence. Such a tolerant 'liberal'.
Tenure in your case means that you are allowed to continue on as the resident charity case. What else could explain such an idiotic, bigoted, blinkered child being able to collect her tiny paycheck for ranting like a moron. In your case, tenure means being allowed to be incompetent. Stupidity without accountability, opinions without facts, sound and fury signifying nothing. (Again, I think the whole professor thing is probably a lie but crazier things have happened.)
'By the way I have published, not a smart as you think.'
That isn't English. What language did you publish in?
' Amazes me that just because I don't believe as you do, I can't be anything...How shallow.'
Again, the old rubber glue defense. I don't think that you could be anything (that requires any kind of responsibility) because you are an hysterical nit wit. You have shown yourself to be completely irrational and at this point; boring.
'No, it is next to impossible to fire me as my credentials and accomplishments rate me in the top 10% of the structure.'
And what pathetic structure is this? Accomplishments? You have been proven wrong here by a 'Jesus freak neo con' who just 'recites from the Rush playbook' and the only thing you have been able to 'accomplish' is making a fool out of yourself. Yeah, you are in the top 10% of hissy fit throwers and liars at your little community college/group home. Congratulations.
' Nothing to be ashamed about, send lots and lots of students into the workplace so they can replace neo-con dribble like you.'
How would you know how to prepare anyone for the workplace? LOL!
'No, you see people who can think for themselves have the ability to understand when to question and when to change.'
Not at all.... NOT at all. 'Change', you parrots squawk that word out like it were a magic spell. If you got cancer that would be a 'change', idiot. This ambiguous, effectively meaningless word has been sold to MORONS like YOU (along with 'hope' let's not forget 'hope') as if it were a policy statement. Pathetic. You have been marketed and sold the same way people sell toilet paper or salsa dip. You stupid rube.
'That would not be something a neo-con like you would even come close to understanding,'
The fact that you need to delegitimize what I have said by calling me a 'neo-con' undercuts your argument before you start. You do not want to hear what I said so you write it off as 'neo-con'... Then you pat yourself on the back for being understanding. You are a rationalizing bigot who stupidly sees only what she wishes to see and you laughingly regard yourself as 'understanding'?
'as you are too lock stepped to dare question your/their mis-steps'
I am not 'lock stepped' with anyone. You are judging me by your own yardstick you needy lemming.
'Just keep pushing your antiquated thoughts '
Well your 'new' thoughts are not all that defensible. Your 'contemporary' thoughts seem to be rationalizations for being an insecure, incompetent, spoiled, bigoted brat. Come to think about it, seeing only what you want to see isn't that 'new' a concept. Neither is being a follower cloistered in an echo chamber. Since that is the case, spare us your antiquated non-thoughts.
'I guess all herds need someone to lead, I am there.'
LOL! You couldn't lead your way out of a wet paper bag. Play the leader with impressionable children when you should be teaching them. What a malignant narcissist you are. You are taking time that should be about them and making it in to time that is about you. I am sure you are petty enough to make it as difficult as possible for someone who has the audacity to out think you or not to accept your puerile, baseless rants as gospel. I am sure that there are plenty who have seen you for the tiny person that you are (it's glaringly obvious that you are an incompetent little control freak) and they are telling you what you want to hear in order to get past you. Congratulations on your 'tenure', you are nothing but a speed bump to your gifted students who will look back at you and smirk. Have a smirk from me too.
'Speaking of herds, nice to see yours slitting apart because your 'brothers' do not believe that Mr. McCain is conservative enough.'
My (only) brother isn't particularly conservative either. He is a libertarian. Want to see 'split apart'? Wait until the super delegates have their say. Want to see 'united'? Wait until people start asking hard and tough questions about your pandering, substanceless promiser or his opponent.
'He has just started and it is a shame what he has to go through just to get a chance.'
LOL, the Republican race is over, the democrats are separated by a few points and it is going to go until the convention. That ought to be delicious.
'Just because you do not have the ability to find something it must be wrong huh? '
Or made up.
'Go to your local bookstore and ask for the bullshi- (right wing) section you will find plenty of copies of the right wing playbook.'
Lets see a title.
'Coulter, Limbaugh, etc., etc., Same old crap different neo-con.'
None of them have anything to do with anything I have written. You desperately need to believe that in order for you to de-legitimize what i have written to yourself. It is pathetic that you need to fall back on your emotions rather then confront what I have written with reason. People like you don't tend to 'think' things though... they 'feel' them. That is how you can be swept up in the empty rhetoric and hollow, sweet tasting words that signify nothing that are being fed to you. Your emotions are in the drivers seat, you are ruled by your hates and likes and your prejudices and, hysterically, you consider yourself enlightened.
'Calling bullshi- to your rants '
Saying bullsh*t over and over like a 2 year old that just learned a new word is entirely different then presenting a reasoned counterargument. Something that you have yet to do.
'I have pointed out numerous times your 'half truths''
WHERE? WHERE HAVE I LIED?
'You keep trying to make people think Mr. Obama is a Muslim'
I have posted 4 times now, well I will just cut and paste the last time: ' He has said that, despite his ancestry, the fact that his family registered him in school as such and upbringing that he is not a Muslim and I take him at his word as I have said 3 times now.'
So that is 4 provable times, to say otherwise is a LIE.
'Mention his first name just so some redneck in Alabama would wake up and pay attention'
You have a hell of a nerve looking down on anyone at this point. I have yet to meet a 'redneck' who has displayed as much bigotry as you have.
'state that he is educated in a muslim school, etc., etc.'
HE WAS, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. Where is the lie?
'All half truths '
All ENTIRE TRUTHS, ALL FACT! JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT (tough, you are going to hear a lot more of it when the timing is right) DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT IS UN TRUE... GET IT????
'the only reason you do this is you are afraid of a black man kicking your war hero's (old) as-.'
Again with the race. You are judging me by your own bigoted yardstick. I am afraid of a DANGEROUS INCOMPETENT running the country that I love into the ground. Were it Colon Powell we were talking about I would be campaigning for him. The only reason you are voting for this verbose child is because he is the right color, not because he has ANY qualifications, Bigot.
'If the people want the young man, they will elect him. If the people want the old man, they will elect him. '
If the people want experience, loyalty and honor they will elect him. If they want a dangerous incompetent because it would be fun to have a black man they will elect him.
'I have proved your points to be half truths numerous times-'
NO YOU HAVE NOT. At this point you are beyond pathetic.
'But of course lies do not bother you as long as you get your way.'
Where have I lied? I am asking you to point out where I have lied for the millionth time. You just can't do it and your only recourse is to repeat over and over that I have, your default programming. Be a big girl and step out of your comfort zone and either prove that I have said something untrue or admit that you are wrong. Otherwise YOU are the liar.
'Neo-con playbook.'
Like saying McCain was a traitor? That certainty was a lie, liar.
'Is the reference to 'stud' suppose to impress me? You also must have lost your mind. Are you sure it was a shirt stud????'
Never heard of a shirt stud, have you? And you call other people 'rednecks.' Some places you have to dress up to go to... never mind, just pass your hat. :-D
'You could not possibly help in anyway except your checkbook.'
LOL. Suffice to say that you are wrong. In a way you are helping right now. :-D
' I am sure even your friends laugh at you behind your back. '
I am sure that you do not have any friends and that your sensible students view you with sheer contempt for usurping their education for your own narcissistic needs.
'Of course they will take your money, but will sell you down the river the first chance they get.'
LOL, Obama hasn't even promised NOT to do that. Here: 'Change, change, HOPE! change, change, CHANGE, hope change....' You idiots... Man, I could make millions selling you cr*p that flatters your ego and plays on your prejudices. Watch out Barack, you might have me working your side of the street one day fleecing the rubes.
'I spend more time with them for 4 - 6 years than their parents.'
Foisting your baggage off on them. Nice. Lots of people have to sacrifice to be able to send their children to college and you use that time to peddle your brand of bigotry. If on the off chance that it is true that you are a professor you are a reprehensible creep who is practicing child abuse.
' The stupid part comes when they think that this administration cares for them.'
But I am sure they get a dose of your verbal diarrhea to the contrary.
'Check out all the Veterans websites and find out how well the walking wounded is being taken care of. '
You are talking to someone who had magnificent care from the VA, complected operations on my left leg which were done as well as could have been done in the best Hospitals in New York and none of it cost me a nickel. Again, you do not know what you are talking about or more probably, you are lying.
'Good thing about a democracy is I can believe that way.'
That is 'freedom' not democracy and yes, you are free to be a naive spoiled brat who abuses her position to manipulate to embrace your bigotry. Kind of makes me proud that I signed on to protect that.
'You may need to go to a therapist to get over this 'Not a neo-con' crap.'
You need electroshock. No, I take that back, you need to grow the hell up. Seriously.
' To 'keep me safe and secure'---says you! '
Another clever retort from the 'professor' ...'says you'. Yes, to protect your freedom to be a spoiled rotten child abuser.
'I actually look up to them,'
Well you called them stupid, so I guess you are just not in control of what you are saying or you are lying again.
'And yes I do believe that I am better than you'
You are an idiot. Pure and simple.
'I can reason'
You haven't shown it here. Where have I lied?
' admit when something is wrong '
LOL, you are wrong. Where have I lied?
' speak out about it '
Run your ignorant mouth with the talking points you have been fed is more like it.
'and not follow the 'braying ass's' currently occupying the Whitehouse.'
You want to install your own braying ass. (Exactly what he is, by the way)
'Just because I don't walk lock-stepped with you and yours,'
No, you walk lock step with yours. Why don't you try to break step and think for yourself? Oh I forgot, your insecurities mean that you need to be on that bandwagon. Having corresponded with you I can say that being insecure about yourself is the most rational attribute that you have.
' that does not make me a coward,'
Echo-chamber dwelling, bandwagon hopping, lemming, following coward... Yes indeed, that is what you have shown me.
' just a superior thinker---to you!'
Your capacity for rationalization is incredible.
'I bet you don't have a problem with the guys.'
More bigotry from the 'liberal'. You are a case study in hypocrisy and irony.
'One for the 'old grey[sic] one' and the rest for the 'new voice'.'
Your 'new' BS artist isn't going to have it that easy. You can bet on it. :-D I look forward to your hysterical tantrums and fits of insolence and stupidity with great anticipation.
I was just trying to save space for the others on this board. Even SP4 gets tired of reading rants, at least his are concise. But i enjoy making you mad so back to the original format:
'Well, seeing as you are too goddamned stupid to post the quote you are responding to this whole portion of your diatribe is even more nonsensical then your previous. And that is saying something. What an idiot. You truly are. What are you going to do to make yourself look like an even bigger moron next? '
Oh my god are ever a crazy raving moron.
'What does that even mean you moron? Are you smoking crack or something? 'Each morning being a her/him'... You are far too inarticulate to be teaching anything other then crybaby 101.'
Lets see, maybe just throwing the Rosanne insult back at you, sorry you do not get this high level of comedy.
'You are the only one who keeps tossing out homosexuality as an insult. If I were gay I would probably announce it. It just so happens that I am not.
The fact that you are repeatedly trotting it out is further evidence of your playground mentality and your overall bigotry. As if that were needed.'
Pot calling the kettle black, or maybe Muslim?
'LOL, 'bunch of neo-con Jesus freak neo-cons' From the department of redundancy department. Where have I brought up Jesus? Congratulations bigot, you slurred Christians AND homosexuals in the same the same psyco-babble sentence. Such a tolerant 'liberal'.'
In your deluded mind I am only trying to slur you, fallout occurs.
'Tenure in your case means that you are allowed to continue on as the resident charity case. What else could explain such an idiotic, bigoted, blinkered child being able to collect her tiny paycheck for ranting like a moron. In your case, tenure means being allowed to be incompetent. Stupidity without accountability, opinions without facts, sound and fury signifying nothing. (Again, I think the whole professor thing is probably a lie but crazier things have happened.)'
Again because I don't believe in the same things you do, I am a liar, idiot, bigot, blinkered child, moron all the things you see when you look in the mirror. Make pretty good money (probably more than your pea brain could imagine), but I inherited money---not rich---not poor.
'That isn't English. What language did you publish in?'
Italian.
'Again, the old rubber glue defense. I don't think that you could be anything (that requires any kind of responsibility) because you are an hysterical nit wit. You have shown yourself to be completely irrational and at this point; boring.'
I call you names, you call me names, sounds like if I am playing the 'old rubber glue defense', you are playing along. You are easily lead. And if I am boring, why are taking all this time to respond? Must be easily entertained.
'And what pathetic structure is this? Accomplishments? You have been proven wrong here by a 'Jesus freak neo con' who just 'recites from the Rush playbook' and the only thing you have been able to 'accomplish' is making a fool out of yourself. Yeah, you are in the top 10% of hissy fit throwers and liars at your little community college/group home. Congratulations.'
In your mind you have 'proven me wrong'. Your half truths have only proven you are afraid of a Black man. He isn't macho enough for you war mongers?
'How would you know how to prepare anyone for the workplace? LOL!'
Try and get them to change the world from the inside. Try and get as many of them as I can to think for themselves and not listen to people like you. And that said, I have been pretty successful.
'Not at all.... NOT at all. 'Change', you parrots squawk that word out like it were a magic spell. If you got cancer that would be a 'change', idiot. This ambiguous, effectively meaningless word has been sold to MORONS like YOU (along with 'hope' let's not forget 'hope') as if it were a policy statement. Pathetic. You have been marketed and sold the same way people sell toilet paper or salsa dip. You stupid rube.'
Rube, now you are not only a bigot against blacks a sexist against women you are a bigot against uneducated country folk! Or maybe this is a reference to Jews? We all know what you think of the US support of Israel. Rant and rave, I love the show of a total lack of class.
'The fact that you need to delegitimize what I have said by calling me a 'neo-con' undercuts your argument before you start. You do not want to hear what I said so you write it off as 'neo-con'... Then you pat yourself on the back for being understanding. You are a rationalizing bigot who stupidly sees only what she wishes to see and you laughingly regard yourself as 'understanding'? '
No it doesn't dumbas-, you are a neo-con like it or not. It is probably the only thing I have called you that is 100% correct. You don't want to hear what I said so you write it off as 'parrots squawk'. Not very convincing you are also a hypocrite.
'I am not 'lock stepped' with anyone. You are judging me by your own yardstick you needy lemming.'
Delusional at best.
'Well your 'new' thoughts are not all that defensible. Your 'contemporary' thoughts seem to be rationalizations for being an insecure, incompetent, spoiled, bigoted brat. Come to think about it, seeing only what you want to see isn't that 'new' a concept. Neither is being a follower cloistered in an echo chamber. Since that is the case, spare us your antiquated non-thoughts.'
I have people that at least listen to me, the way you rant and call people names no one listens to you. I have to laugh here, you are a nut.
'LOL! You couldn't lead your way out of a wet paper bag. Play the leader with impressionable children when you should be teaching them. What a malignant narcissist you are. You are taking time that should be about them and making it in to time that is about you. I am sure you are petty enough to make it as difficult as possible for someone who has the audacity to out think you or not to accept your puerile, baseless rants as gospel. I am sure that there are plenty who have seen you for the tiny person that you are (it's glaringly obvious that you are an incompetent little control freak) and they are telling you what you want to hear in order to get past you. Congratulations on your 'tenure', you are nothing but a speed bump to your gifted students who will look back at you and smirk. Have a smirk from me too.'
They are not children. Most of them have more ability to stay focused and not blow a lid than you do. Most of them are surely more more level headed than you are and can have a discussion with someone without the barrage of name calling. You are a pretty big baby, must be hell to be around. Probably had 3 or 4 wives, all of them hate you, kids hate you, dog bites you, cat scratches you, etc?
'My (only) brother isn't particularly conservative either. He is a libertarian. Want to see 'split apart'? Wait until the super delegates have their say. Want to see 'united'? Wait until people start asking hard and tough questions about your pandering, substanceless promiser or his opponent.'
Keep hoping that thought, when it does not happen you can go onto your next set of half truths. From where I sit right now it already looks like your boy is looking for money and our guy has more than he needs. better get those shirt studs out and raise a bunch of money for your boy. ; - )
'LOL, the Republican race is over, the democrats are separated by a few points and it is going to go until the convention. That ought to be delicious. '
I finally agree with you on something. The republican't race is over!
'Or made up.'
Doesn't fit in your pea brain of ideas, must be made up?
'Lets see a title.'
'The Way Things Ought to Be', 'Men in Black', 'Godlessness, The Church of Liberalism'. You really don't need to read them, you already quote from them.
'None of them have anything to do with anything I have written. You desperately need to believe that in order for you to de-legitimize what i have written to yourself. It is pathetic that you need to fall back on your emotions rather then confront what I have written with reason. People like you don't tend to 'think' things though... they 'feel' them. That is how you can be swept up in the empty rhetoric and hollow, sweet tasting words that signify nothing that are being fed to you. Your emotions are in the drivers seat, you are ruled by your hates and likes and your prejudices and, hysterically, you consider yourself enlightened.'
Too bad your 'thinking' is wasted on your ranting.
'Saying bullsh*t over and over like a 2 year old that just learned a new word is entirely different then presenting a reasoned counterargument. Something that you have yet to do.'
Oh like you do. Idiot this idiot that, moron this moron that. You must also be a 2 year old? Your counter arguments are not that effective as they are only half true.
'WHERE? WHERE HAVE I LIED?'
Half truths. Like I have pointed out.
'I have posted 4 times now, well I will just cut and paste the last time: ' He has said that, despite his ancestry, the fact that his family registered him in school as such and upbringing that he is not a Muslim and I take him at his word as I have said 3 times now.'
The original intend was to defame. Liar.
'You have a hell of a nerve looking down on anyone at this point. I have yet to meet a 'redneck' who has displayed as much bigotry as you have.'
You are a joke. I have only look down on you and the dead troops that have fought for you and yours half truths and lies.
'HE WAS, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION. Where is the lie? '
Original intent liar.
'All ENTIRE TRUTHS, ALL FACT! JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT (tough, you are going to hear a lot more of it when the timing is right) DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT IS UN TRUE... GET IT???? '
Liar.
'Again with the race. You are judging me by your own bigoted yardstick. I am afraid of a DANGEROUS INCOMPETENT running the country that I love into the ground. Were it Colon Powell we were talking about I would be campaigning for him. The only reason you are voting for this verbose child is because he is the right color, not because he has ANY qualifications, Bigot.'
And the rockets red glare.......'running the country I love into the ground'. You not only are a joke, a liar and completely devoid of reality, but if you were concerned about your country being run into the ground, you would be trying to do something about the current administration. Only OK when it fits into your pea brain ideas.
'If the people want experience, loyalty and honor they will elect him. If they want a dangerous incompetent because it would be fun to have a black man they will elect him.'
They elected GWB a man with less experience that Mr. Obama, and I am sure you are proud of how that is working out, so I can be proud of my man.
'NO YOU HAVE NOT. At this point you are beyond pathetic.'
Right back at ya.
'Where have I lied? I am asking you to point out where I have lied for the millionth time. You just can't do it and your only recourse is to repeat over and over that I have, your default programming. Be a big girl and step out of your comfort zone and either prove that I have said something untrue or admit that you are wrong. Otherwise YOU are the liar.'
You are pathetic---half truths to slur someone. I know that is your sides basic plan, but I don't think it will work this time.
'Like saying McCain was a traitor? That certainty was a lie, liar.'
Where did I call him a 'traitor'. I would never be that crass, another half truth on your part.
'Never heard of a shirt stud, have you? And you call other people 'rednecks.' Some places you have to dress up to go to... never mind, just pass your hat. :-D'
Arrogance, only enlightens your ignorance.
'LOL. Suffice to say that you are wrong. In a way you are helping right now. :-D'
Again, what a joke you are.
'I am sure that you do not have any friends and that your sensible students view you with sheer contempt for usurping their education for your own narcissistic needs.'
I rubber your glue, sound familiar?
'LOL, Obama hasn't even promised NOT to do that. Here: 'Change, change, HOPE! change, change, CHANGE, hope change....' You idiots... Man, I could make millions selling you cr*p that flatters your ego and plays on your prejudices. Watch out Barack, you might have me working your side of the street one day fleecing the rubes.'
We will see what happens. It will be great to have someone in that office that will drive you guys absolutely crazy. 'Rubes' must have learned a new word from your spy novel?
'Foisting your baggage off on them. Nice. Lots of people have to sacrifice to be able to send their children to college and you use that time to peddle your brand of bigotry. If on the off chance that it is true that you are a professor you are a reprehensible creep who is practicing child abuse.'
Says you. Nice try but you are getting to be a joke.
'But I am sure they get a dose of your verbal diarrhea to the contrary.'
Difference between you and me, I listen to them and do not try and force them to believe my way.
'You are talking to someone who had magnificent care from the VA, complected operations on my left leg which were done as well as could have been done in the best Hospitals in New York and none of it cost me a nickel. Again, you do not know what you are talking about or more probably, you are lying.'
And that is proof that everyone is being taken care of like you did? I guess the problem at Walter Reed was made up buy the liberal press?
'That is 'freedom' not democracy and yes, you are free to be a naive spoiled brat who abuses her position to manipulate to embrace your bigotry. Kind of makes me proud that I signed on to protect that.'
I did not ask you to, but thank you for doing it. Quit believing you are owed more than anyone else---you are not.
'Well you called them stupid, so I guess you are just not in control of what you are saying or you are lying again.'
Half truths again.
'You are an idiot. Pure and simple. '
Mirror mirror on the wall.
'Run your ignorant mouth with the talking points you have been fed is more like it. '
Kind of sounds like what you are doing doesn't it.
'Echo-chamber dwelling, bandwagon hopping, lemming, following coward... Yes indeed, that is what you have shown me.'
GD you are funny, almost entertaining if it was not such a shame to waste a good mind.
'Your 'new' BS artist isn't going to have it that easy. You can bet on it. :-D I look forward to your hysterical tantrums and fits of insolence and stupidity with great anticipation.'
We will see who goes into hysterical tantrums. You have shown you are at least good at that.
'I was just trying to save space for the others on this board. '
Liar, you screwed up.
'Oh my god are ever a crazy raving moron.'
Not a retort.
'Lets see, maybe just throwing the Rosanne insult back at you, '
Try it in English next time, you pseudo academic charity case.
'Pot calling the kettle black, or maybe Muslim?'
Shall I post it a 5 th time on the off chance that you comprehend it? Naah, you are just too stupid.
'LOL, 'bunch of neo-con Jesus freak neo-cons'...'I am only trying to slur you, '
That is why you used the phrase 'bunch of' you stupid liar.
'Again because I don't believe in the same things you do,'
Again, the old rubber glue gambit, your lack of originality is indicative of your stupidity.
'I am a liar'
Your favorite phrase here to for with me, which you have yet to back up.
'idiot,'
At this point proven.
'bigot,'
At this point proven.
'blinkered child,'
At this point proven.
'moron'
At this point proven.
'all the things you see when you look in the mirror.'
Again, original...
'I inherited money---not rich---not poor.'
A spoiled trust fund baby, congratulations.
So did step dad have boundary issues or was there a wicked uncle that turned you into a little ball of inarticulate resentments? Obama can't fix that. I am sure daddy would have the desired, horrified reaction at your insolence, disloyalty and narcissism. Screwing yourself up is such sweet revenge eh?
Or did he want a boy? Was he not 'accepting'? Was he disappointed? Well the mindset that you dogmatically cling to would have undoubtedly produced the desired discomfort. I suspect he would have been disappointed as all hell in the way his spoiled little girl aged without growing up.
'Italian.'
How did you put it? Is that 'suppose[sic] to impress me?' Daddy sent you to Florance did he?
'sounds like if I am playing the 'old rubber glue defense', you are playing along. '
I would suggest that you try to be inventive but we have established that you need to think within certain parameters. Then again, I won't try to pin the regurgitation of identical insults on your insecurity. That is probably just due to you being dull.
'why are taking all this time to respond?'
Did the 'you' get lost in translation? Regardless, a good question. You probably haven't had this much attention in years. Curiosity whether or not you have the class to admit that you are wrong. That curiosity is pretty much satisfied at this point.
'In your mind you have 'proven me wrong''
Want to see video of his madrassah?
' Your half truths have only proven you are afraid of a Black man.'
When he is a dangerous incompetent demagogue I fear for the damage he can do. Again, you trot out his race like it was your security blanket. Aren't you morally superior! I guess that means you are not a racist! You have shown yourself to be otherwise.
'He isn't macho enough for you war mongers?'
What makes you say that I am a war monger? (Your knee jerk assumptions and bigotry, I know. It was a rhetorical question.)
'Try and get them to change the world from the inside.'
The inside of the world? What if that is not what they want to do? What if they have the good sense to be grateful for what they have been given? What if they are not spoiled, limited grievance collectors who seek to look 'outside' for what has made her bitter?
In general, what if they do not want or need someone as screwed up as you are 'changing' them? Time for some negative reinforcement? Time to get petty? Well done, you are producing more of yourself. One wonders what will happen to them if they can't hide out in academia.
'Try and get as many of them as I can to think for themselves'
That is the exact opposite of what you have shown here.
'and not listen to people like you.'
See? (on the off chance you are not lying) You are stealing from them. You are taking time away options when you should be adding them. You are violating a trust and stunting their growth to produce the result that YOU want. Miserable bitch, you are a child abuser.
'you are not only a bigot against blacks'
Where have I demonstrated that? Liar.
'a sexist against women'
Where have I demonstrated that? Liar.
'you are a bigot against uneducated country folk!'
Where have I demonstrated that? Liar.
I can cite where you have been Racist, sexist and bigoted 'against uneducated country folk' as well as homosexuals. This is just more of your hysterical psychological projection and grabbing at straws.
'Or maybe this is a reference to Jews?'
You can look the word up here: www.merriam-webster.com
You lazy, ignorant idiot.
'We all know what you think of the US support of Israel.'
We? You and your many personalities? What is it that you 'know'? Lazy slob, jumping to conclusions is the only mental exercise you get.
'I love the show of a total lack of class.'
Makes you feel at home, eh?
'you are a neo-con like it or not.
You are an idiot, and you are wrong. I wouldn't call you a 'liberal' because you have shown yourself to be incredibly intolerant. (That guarantees that you are a real sh*tty professor.)
'It is probably the only thing I have called you that is 100% correct.'
LOL! At least you concede that the rest of your effluence is sewer runoff.
If I were a 'neo-con' why would I not just admit it? Why wouldn't I proclaim it loudly? Unlike you I do not see anything inherent in that to automatically disqualify the neo-con's opinions... So why would I not admit to it? You are wrong, which makes it categorical.
'ou don't want to hear what I said so you write it off as 'parrots squawk'.'
Your ranting and parroting of the party line that you are incapable of articulately defending is just that. And you think it enlightened... Idiot.
'Delusional at best.'
No; reasoned, well articulated and at this point completely confirmed.
'I have people that at least listen to me'
You have people telling you what you want to hear to get past you. You as influential to any of your students with a triple digit IQ as a speed bump. The sad ones that you DO have influence will soon shake it off when reality sets after they escape the echo chamber and have to back up the orthodoxy with a reasoned, real world defense. The ones who CAN'T evolve beyond your BS will wind up right back where you are after they flunk out of reality and seek out the last place they got encouragement for reciting what they were told to recite. Sound familiar? Welcome home she who never grew out of it.
Hopefully there are some real professors there who are in it to help each student reach the limit of his or her potential instead of stunting them to create another loser in your image. Those professors are the ones they will remember fondly all their lives. You will just be added to the list of emotional cripples left at the side of the road.
'They are not children.'
They are there to grow, not be limited in your image.
'and can have a discussion with someone without the barrage of name calling.'
You have earned it. Poor thing can dish it out but she can't take it.
'You are a pretty big baby'
I am an adult who can defend his positions, can think for himself and who did not have to rely on daddy's money.
'Probably had 3 or 4 wives'
LOL, let me guess, your apartment stinks of cat pee, Jenny Craig and you don't have to worry about anyone around hating you because there is no one else around. The relationships that you have had ended poorly when your narcissism turned disagreement in to something that needed to be punished. If you were out thought it just ended quicker. No wonder you are so quock to latch on to someone who promises 'hope' and 'change'. Bad news kiddo, he ain't going to fix all that your crappy attitude has broken.
'From where I sit right now it already looks like your boy is looking for money '
Ill be able to send him another check, but he will be fine since your candidate promised to have his election federally funded... And he would NEVER lie now would he? :-D
'Doesn't fit in your pea brain of ideas, must be made up? '
I find it difficult to believe that there is a college lousy enough to bring someone on with your obvious limitations.
'You really don't need to read them, you already quote from them'
Whelp, I do not own any so I can't say for sure that there aren't any similarities. Seeing as your candidate plagiarizes other peoples speeches though I would think you might cut me some slack.
'Oh like you do.'
Again with the playground retort...
Your counter arguments are not that effective as they are only half true.
'WHERE? WHERE HAVE I LIED?'
Half truths. Like I have pointed out.
Where have I 'half truthed'?
'The original intend was to defame. Liar.'
It does not matter whether or not that was the intent or whether or not I had it, if something is factually true the intent of stating it is irrelevant, IDIOT.
'I have only look down on you and the dead troops that have fought for you'
You look down on the dead troops who were killed protecting the country. Nice.
'Original intent liar.'
Is irrelevant to whether or not something is true, moron.
============================================
Let it be shown, once and for all, you haven't been able to find a lie even though you have repeatedly called me a liar. Intent behind telling the truth does not make something less true, idiot. Were you a professor you might have been able to understand that from the beginning, idiot.
=============================================
'Liar.'
Fool.
'And the rockets red glare.'
Why don't you go live somewhere else?
'ou would be trying to do something about the current administration. '
I don't suppose it has ever dawned on you that Bush is not running again. Naaah, that would mean that you couldn't define yourself as simply 'against', you might have to think it through for yourself.
1) He had more experience governing then Obama.
2) Is that where you want to set the bar?
'prove that I have said something untrue or admit that you are wrong. Otherwise YOU are the liar.'
You are pathetic---half truths to slur someone.'
So, it's official, you are now a liar as well as a bigot. Every i has been dotted and every t crossed. Done.
'I listen to them and do not try and force them to believe my way.'
That runs contrary to what you have said, (You referred to yourself as their 'leader' remember, you blithering half-wit) so it is probably another one of your lies.
'I guess the problem at Walter Reed was made up buy the liberal press?'
It was fixed. According to the liberal (Leftist, lets use the word correctly) press there were mice in the kitchen at Beth Israel. You didn't file that little factoid away for your grievance theater did you? Yes, the care is good and no, you do not know what you are talking about.
' Quit believing you are owed more than anyone else---you are not. '
I didn't think that for a second and I did not do it for you. Now, quit believing that you are owed something because you mockingly call yourself 'educated'. You are not in the true sense of the word. While we are at it quit believing that such a spoiled narcissist should be taken seriously.
'Half truths again.'
Whelp, you are a full on liar.
'Mirror mirror on the wall.'
Bounces off of me and sticks to you.
'Kind of sounds like what you are doing doesn't it.'
See above... Boring...
Such transparent self loathing.. Oh well, you are welcome to cut your own throat but you are not going to get mine.
'Liar, you screwed up.'
You just made me laugh at you again. You are really a puffed-up arrogant ass. Makes me laugh that you think you are so important that everyone has to do it your way. Funny.
'Not a retort.'
May not be, but it is the truth (something you only know half of).
'Try it in English next time, you pseudo academic charity case.'
Another laugh!
'Shall I post it a 5 th time on the off chance that you comprehend it? Naah, you are just too stupid.'
Say it all you want, it does not prove me wrong or you right. Once you have been exposed as a bigot, that kind of thing does not jump back in the bag.
'That is why you used the phrase 'bunch of' you stupid liar.'
I was taking into account how big your head must be, at least the size for 4 or 5 people or a 'bunch of'.
'Again, the old rubber glue gambit, your lack of originality is indicative of your stupidity.'
You should know you are an expert in both areas. You just throw insults trying to intimidate people into believing you, and your crap is out of the right-wing hate manual.
Now not to throw you off, but I will respond to a bunch of things as I am trying to save some space for others---even though your rants seem to have driven everyone away.
'Your favorite phrase here to for with me, which you have yet to back up.' 'At this point proven.' 'At this point proven.' 'At this point proven.' 'At this point proven.' 'Again, original...'
'A spoiled trust fund baby, congratulations.'
I have backed it up numerous times on this board and just because you don't want to admit you tell half truths and that they are lies, does not make you correct. You have proven nothing, nothing nothing, nothing. Thanks I try originality, it is better than ranting like a hobbled cow. Jealous?
'So did step dad have boundary issues or was there a wicked uncle that turned you into a little ball of inarticulate resentments? Obama can't fix that. I am sure daddy would have the desired, horrified reaction at your insolence, disloyalty and narcissism. Screwing yourself up is such sweet revenge eh?'
Good try, but I am pretty secure. None of this biggety raving bothers me in the least. I really just think you need help.
'Or did he want a boy? Was he not 'accepting'? Was he disappointed? Well the mindset that you dogmatically cling to would have undoubtedly produced the desired discomfort. I suspect he would have been disappointed as all hell in the way his spoiled little girl aged without growing up.'
He had a few boys. Proud of all of them and proud of me. I am educating the next generation so we can eliminate bigots like you.
'How did you put it? Is that 'suppose[sic] to impress me?' Daddy sent you to Florance did he? '
No actually lived there for 3 years and taught in a local college. But the first time I went there, 'daddy' did pay for the trip, my 'degree' present.
'I would suggest that you try to be inventive but we have established that you need to think within certain parameters. Then again, I won't try to pin the regurgitation of identical insults on your insecurity. That is probably just due to you being dull. '
You have yet to prove to anyone that you can be 'inventive'. Everything you say can be heard on right wing radio, or by reading right wing blogs or books.
'why are taking all this time to respond?'
I have to spend at least 10 hours a day planning, grading and teaching the new generation that will eliminate bigots like you.
'Did the 'you' get lost in translation? Regardless, a good question. You probably haven't had this much attention in years. Curiosity whether or not you have the class to admit that you are wrong. That curiosity is pretty much satisfied at this point.'
I think you need to get the mirror out again. You are the one that saves all the posts on this board, categorizing them, referencing them. you really need to get a life.
(again to save space---hope you can keep up)
'Want to see video of his madrassah?' 'When he is a dangerous incompetent demagogue I fear for the damage he can do. Again, you trot out his race like it was your security blanket. Aren't you morally superior! I guess that means you are not a racist! You have shown yourself to be otherwise.' 'What makes you say that I am a war monger? (Your knee jerk assumptions and bigotry, I know. It was a rhetorical question.)'
Half truth again. Half truths again 'dangerous incompetent demagogue' (just because he does not believe like you). Again you are the one that makes race an issue with you half truths. Either you are part of the solution or part of the problem---you are part of the problem. You make your self the self-aggrandizing ass that you are.
'The inside of the world? What if that is not what they want to do? What if they have the good sense to be grateful for what they have been given? What if they are not spoiled, limited grievance collectors who seek to look 'outside' for what has made her bitter? '
Everyone has the right to think and act as they like. Where have I said that I push them one way or another. Remember they are the ones that pushed me into looking at Mr. Obama. Or did you forget?
'In general, what if they do not want or need someone as screwed up as you are 'changing' them? Time for some negative reinforcement? Time to get petty? Well done, you are producing more of yourself. One wonders what will happen to them if they can't hide out in academia. '
Again I am not changing them. Just giving them the truth and the can decide for themselves. Hide out in academia, I really believe you need help. That is a pretty stupid statement.
'That is the exact opposite of what you have shown here.'
Because I present another point of view from your bigoted right-wing agenda?
'See? (on the off chance you are not lying) You are stealing from them. You are taking time away options when you should be adding them. You are violating a trust and stunting their growth to produce the result that YOU want. Miserable bitch, you are a child abuser.'
See what? They can do as they please. I think maybe you were abused when you were a child. You need help man.
(time to group again)
'Where have I demonstrated that? Liar.' 'Where have I demonstrated that? Liar.' 'Where have I demonstrated that? Liar.' 'I can cite where you have been Racist, sexist and bigoted 'against uneducated country folk' as well as homosexuals. This is just more of your hysterical psychological projection and grabbing at straws.'
In your half truth posts. Ditto. You don't like 'rubes'.
'We? You and your many personalities? What is it that you 'know'? Lazy slob, jumping to conclusions is the only mental exercise you get. '
'We' was meant others on this board. Many you have thrown under the bus and they have not stood up to you.
'Makes you feel at home, eh? '
No, I live around a lot of people that are very secure with their position in life and have a real life unlike you, the M&C nut.
'You are an idiot, and you are wrong. I wouldn't call you a 'liberal' because you have shown yourself to be incredibly intolerant. (That guarantees that you are a real sh*tty professor.)'
Rubber and glue, I told you you were the best at that game....
'LOL! At least you concede that the rest of your effluence is sewer runoff. '
No I am only throwing names at you so you can get a taste of how ignorant you really are.
'If I were a 'neo-con' why would I not just admit it? Why wouldn't I proclaim it loudly? Unlike you I do not see anything inherent in that to automatically disqualify the neo-con's opinions... So why would I not admit to it? You are wrong, which makes it categorical.'
Again delusional.
'Your ranting and parroting of the party line that you are incapable of articulately defending is just that. And you think it enlightened... Idiot.'
'Party line'? I believe it is you that is spouting textbook right wing babble. I am only calling you on it.
'No; reasoned, well articulated and at this point completely confirmed.'
Reasoned if you like the right wing party line, articulate but ignorant, completely confirmed---don't think so. The only thing you have confirmed is that you are a neo-con.
'You have people telling you what you want to hear to get past you. You as influential to any of your students with a triple digit IQ as a speed bump. The sad ones that you DO have influence will soon shake it off when reality sets after they escape the echo chamber and have to back up the orthodoxy with a reasoned, real world defense. The ones who CAN'T evolve beyond your BS will wind up right back where you are after they flunk out of reality and seek out the last place they got encouragement for reciting what they were told to recite. Sound familiar? Welcome home she who never grew out of it.'
Now that was a good rant. None of it true, and only shows how insecure you are with what you have in life, but most of all shows me you have never taught anyone anything in life that was worth a dam. You are one frustrated man.
'Hopefully there are some real professors there who are in it to help each student reach the limit of his or her potential instead of stunting them to create another loser in your image. Those professors are the ones they will remember fondly all their lives. You will just be added to the list of emotional cripples left at the side of the road.'
There are lots of us, we meet every morning and sing 60's songs before we go out and ruin the future of the next generation. Again I can tell you have not accomplished anything important in life.
(again, please keep up)
'They are there to grow, not be limited in your image.' 'You have earned it. Poor thing can dish it out but she can't take it.' 'I am an adult who can defend his positions, can think for himself and who did not have to rely on daddy's money.'
They do a lot of growing and can avoid the traps of not being educated. I think I have taken it pretty good, I love it when I am right. You don't act like an adult. Adults can discuss things without calling people idiots, parasites, etc. Just shows me you have never grown up. 'Daddy's money'? Jealous?
'LOL, let me guess, your apartment stinks of cat pee, Jenny Craig and you don't have to worry about anyone around hating you because there is no one else around. The relationships that you have had ended poorly when your narcissism turned disagreement in to something that needed to be punished. If you were out thought it just ended quicker. No wonder you are so quock to latch on to someone who promises 'hope' and 'change'. Bad news kiddo, he ain't going to fix all that your crappy attitude has broken.'
So I guess I was right about the 3 (or more) wives that hated You and the kids that hate you because you have no perception of anyones beliefs unless they match yours. By the way I have no pets and just a couple of kids that love me because they can be who they are and not worry about me judging them against my beliefs. Something I think impossible for a lonely old neo-con like you. Your old man gives no one hope except the few neo-cons like you that really think that old guy has a chance.
'Ill be able to send him another check, but he will be fine since your candidate promised to have his election federally funded... And he would NEVER lie now would he? :-D '
I am proud of you for supporting your man. But, again another half truth. He said he would discuss it if he was the won the nomination. Please get with the truth and quit making things up, it only looks bad for you.
'I find it difficult to believe that there is a college lousy enough to bring someone on with your obvious limitations.'
Don't you hate it when that happens?
'Whelp, I do not own any so I can't say for sure that there aren't any similarities. Seeing as your candidate plagiarizes other peoples speeches though I would think you might cut me some slack. '
Oh that hurts, you are such a joke. If the worst thing we find out about Mr. McCain is that he plagiarizes peoples speeches (good friends who often share speeches), you will be lucky.
''WHERE? WHERE HAVE I LIED?''
Your entire rhetoric is filled with half-truths, just like the statement two paragraphs above.
'Where have I 'half truthed'? '
Ditto.
'It does not matter whether or not that was the intent or whether or not I had it, if something is factually true the intent of stating it is irrelevant, IDIOT.'
Of course we can justify our half truths as you are a neo-con and neo-cons do not have to tell the whole truth.
'You look down on the dead troops who were killed protecting the country. Nice.'
I did not know that the Iraq army was at our door? I know you would not like to 'half-truth' about Saddam having WMD's, or was he allied with the 9/11 terrorists? You would not 'half-truth' me again would you?
'Is irrelevant to whether or not something is true, moron.'
Now you are admitting you are a real neo-con. The truth means nothing to them/you.
'Let it be shown, once and for all, you haven't been able to find a lie even though you have repeatedly called me a liar. Intent behind telling the truth does not make something less true, idiot. Were you a professor you might have been able to understand that from the beginning, idiot.'
Right! What a joke you are. The truth means nothing to you. That is a good example for anyone (god forbid) you have any influence on.
'Why don't you go live somewhere else?'
You 'love it or leave it' POS. I don't have to go somewhere else, I can stay here and stick in the craw of right wing idiots like you.
'I don't suppose it has ever dawned on you that Bush is not running again. Naaah, that would mean that you couldn't define yourself as simply 'against', you might have to think it through for yourself.
Really. Thanks for letting me know.
''prove that I have said something untrue or admit that you are wrong. Otherwise YOU are the liar.''
Read up above another of your half-truths, so I guess I don't have to admit I am wrong. That makes you the liar.
'So, it's official, you are now a liar as well as a bigot. Every i has been dotted and every t crossed. Done. '
You are a nut. You need help.
'That runs contrary to what you have said, (You referred to yourself as their 'leader' remember, you blithering half-wit) so it is probably another one of your lies. '
Only in the military does the Leader impose his will on his students. That is where your mind is so I guess I understand your half crocked statement. One can lead and not force their beliefs on others, something guys like you would not understand. 'Love it or leave it'! Take a hike!
'It was fixed. According to the liberal (Leftist, lets use the word correctly) press there were mice in the kitchen at Beth Israel. You didn't file that little factoid away for your grievance theater did you? Yes, the care is good and no, you do not know what you are talking about.'
They really have you guys brainwashed don't they. Do you read anything from the regular news or do you just live in the 'Stars and Stripes' world.
'I didn't think that for a second and I did not do it for you. Now, quit believing that you are owed something because you mockingly call yourself 'educated'. You are not in the true sense of the word. While we are at it quit believing that such a spoiled narcissist should be taken seriously.'
I do believe that we can agree on one thing---you are not really that improtant. But contrary to your situation I work and make a difference in thousands of young peoples lives every year. I am sure you run the complaint counter at Macy's.
'Whelp, you are a full on liar.' 'Bounces off of me and sticks to you.' 'See above... Boring... '
I agree with that you are boring.
'Such transparent self loathing.. Oh well, you are welcome to cut your own throat but you are not going to get mine.'
'Not going to cut mine'. I don't have to, you have done it to yourself.
By Margery Eagan | Thursday, February 21, 2008 |
I’m an Obama girl and my man throttled Hillary Clinton, again, Tuesday night.
Suddenly, the impossible is real.
Suddenly, I’m nervous. Very nervous, actually.
I’m nervous because an otherwise normal grownup told me yesterday she’s watched the will.i.am (Black Eyed Peas) “Yes We Can” Obama video about 100 times and gets “weepy” every time.
I’m nervous because a longtime political type, normally quite cynical, now waxes rhapsodic about Obama’s “cool.”
“He’s elegant, controlled, the best-dressed candidate ever,” he says. Never a red tie, yellow or bright blue. No, Obama does a subdued lean charcoal gray suit with a gray or silvery tie. Everything muted, measured, fluid. “He floats onto the stage, a bit of the Fred Astaire thing going.”
Fred Astaire?
This same man, 100 percent anti-illegal aliens, fears Obama could pull a Reagan or a JFK on the Mexican border, head down there, chanting, “Tear down this wall!” or even do an “Ich bin ein Tijuana!!!”
He’s with Obama anyway.
I’m nervous because Harvard political genius Elaine Kamarck told me Hillary understands the various messes we’re in far better than Obama.
Suppose Kamarck’s right?
I’m nervous about the “O’Bambi” factor. Will the terrorists move in next door when Obama’s in the White House?
I’m nervous because Michelle Obama, about whom I just wrote a fawning puff piece, now says that until her husband’s stunning ascendancy, she’s never before been proud of America. Huh?
Barack now claims she didn’t mean it. Oh, yes she did. We all know the insufferable, holier-than-thou, Blame-America-First types who lecture the unwashed from the rarefied air of Cambridge and Brookline.
If I wanted lecturing, I’d be with Hillary.
I’m nervous because too many Obama-philes sound like Moonies, or Hare Krishnas, or the Hale-Bopp-Is-Coming-To-Get-Me nuts.
These true believers “Obama-ize” everything. They speak Obama-ese. Knit for Obama. Run for Obama. Gamble - Hold ’Em Barack! - for Obama. They make Obama cakes, underwear, jewelry. They send Valentine cards reading, “I want to Barack your world!”
At campaign rallies people scream, cry, even faint as Obama calmly calls for the EMTs. When supporters pant en masse, “I love you!” (like The Beatles, circa 1964), Barack says, “I love you back” with that deliciously charming, almost cocky smile.
Oh - I’m nervous because it’s all gone to his head and he hasn’t even won yet.
I’m nervous because it’s gone to a lot of other people’s heads as well. Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings introduced Obama last week in Baltimore and said, “This is not a campaign for president of the United States, this is a movement to change the world.”
“He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere,” says George Clooney.
“I’ll do whatever he says to do,” says actress Halle Berry. “I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.”
I’m nervous because nobody’s quite sure what Obama stands for, even his supporters. (“I can’t wait to see,” said actress/activist Susan Sarandon, declaring full support nonetheless).
I’m nervous because even his biggest fans can’t name Obama’s accomplishments, including Texas state Sen. Kirk Watson, an Obama-man who humiliated himself when MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked him about five times to name something, anything, Obama’s done. Watson hemmed. Watson hawed. Watson gave up.
I’m nervous because John McCain says Obama’s is “an eloquent but empty call for change” and in the wee, wee hours, a nagging voice whispers, suppose McCain’s right, too? Then what?
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NoharnessFeb 16th, 2008 - 14:53:46
RE:' Obama fired back in Wisconsin, accusing Clinton of putting up 'boxing gloves' against the Republicans instead of working together with the opposition to hammer out solutions for the country.'
Go, Obama! If nothing else good comes out of this mess, we will at least have an end to the Clinton Clan and the Bush Bunch. Good riddance to both!
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