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Obama, Clinton clash on foreign policy, plagiarism charges
Feb 22, 2008, 5:05 GMT
Washington - Democratic presidential hopefuls Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton sparred over meeting US enemies, immigration and leadership style in a debate Thursday night in Texas, the largest state contest left in the battle for the party's nomination.
Both candidates hammered home messages that have been at the heart of their campaigns, with Clinton highlighting her experience, preparedness and history of taking action, while Obama touted his sound judgement and ability to bring all sides together to achieve common goals.
But the exchange that will be replayed endlessly in coming days was over an accusation by Clinton that Obama had plagiarized portions of a speech from Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, as she used Obama's campaign slogan 'change we can believe in' against him.
'If your candidacy is going to be about words, then they should be your own words,' Clinton said. 'Lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in. It's change you can Xerox.'
Clinton's attack - which concerns language Obama used at a rally to highlight the power of words that was nearly identical to Patrick's own - drew boos from the crowd at the University of Texas in Austin.
Obama defended his use of Patrick's language, arguing that the Massachusetts governor is the co-chair of his campaign and had himself urged the Illinois senator to use the comments.
'The notion that I had plagiarized from one of my national co- chairs, who gave me the line and suggested that I use it, I think is silly,' he said. 'This is where we start getting into silly season in politics.'
The exchange was an especially testy moment in an otherwise largely civil debate between the two senators, who have been locked since January in a tight race to become the Democratic nominee in the November 4 presidential election.
With Obama winning the last 11 contests since more than 20 states voted in the February 5 Super Tuesday events, Clinton is fighting to dent Obama's gathering momentum and has staked her campaign on winning primaries on March 4 in Texas and Ohio.
In a debate that spanned issues from the economy and health care to the Iraq war, the two candidates drew some of their sharpest distinctions over the presidential role in foreign policy.
Following the resignation of ailing Fidel Castro in Cuba earlier this week, the two disagreed over whether to meet with his brother and heir-apparent, Raul Castro, as the US hopes to nudge the communist island toward democracy.
Clinton said she would meet Castro only after seeing 'evidence' of Democratic reforms and charged that immediate meetings with adversaries would 'undermine' the office of the president.
'I would get back to very vigorous diplomacy. I want to send a very clear message to the rest of the world that the era of unilateralism, pre-emption and arrogance of the Bush administration is over,' she said, drawing loud cheers from the crowd.
Obama said he would meet Raul Castro 'without preconditions' in order to press him to restore human rights and democracy, repeating a pledge he has made to meet with all US adversaries.
'If we think that meeting with the president is a privilege that has to be earned, I think that reinforces the sense that we stand above the rest of the world,' he said. 'It's important for us, in undoing the damage that has been done over the last seven years, for the president to be willing to take that extra step.'
The debate was hosted by broadcaster CNN and the largest US-based Spanish-language television station, Univision, in a state that borders Mexico and has a large Hispanic minority.
The issue of illegal immigration and securing the US border took on a central role as both candidates promised to work for a comprehensive solution that has failed to pass through Congress twice in the last three years.
Obama said that the contentious debate has caused a spike in hate crimes against Hispanics and called on all sides to 'tone down the rhetoric,' while Clinton said she would listen to those people living along the border region and bring a reform bill to Congress within the first 100 days of taking office.
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By Kathleen Parker
WASHINGTON -- Much has been made of the religious tenor of Barack Obama's presidential campaign.
Reports of women weeping and swooning -- even of an audience applauding when The One cleared his proboscis (blew his nose for you mortals) -- have become frequent events in the heavenly realm of Obi-Wan Obama.
His rhetoric, meanwhile, drips with hints of resurrection, redemption and second comings. 'We are the ones we've been waiting for,' he said on Super Tuesday night. And his people were glad.
Actually, they were hysterical, the word that best describes what surrounds this young savior and that may be more apt than we imagine. The word is derived from the Greek hystera, or womb. The ancient Greeks considered hysteria a psychoneurosis peculiar to women caused by disturbances of the uterus.
Well, you don't see any men fainting in Obi's presence.
Barack Obama has many appealing qualities, not least his own reluctance to be swaddled in purple. Nothing quite says, 'I'm only human' like whipping out a hankie and blowing one's nose in front of 17,000 admirers. The audience's applause was reportedly awkward, as if the crowd was both approving of anything their savior did, but a little disappointed at this rather ungodly behavior.
So what is the source of this infatuation with Obama? How to explain the hysteria? The religious fervor? The devotion? The weeping and fainting and utter euphoria surrounding a candidate who had the audacity to run for leader of the free world on a platform of mere hope?
If anthropologists made predictions the way meteorologists do, they might have anticipated Obama's astronomical rise to supernova status in 2008 of the Common Era. Consider the cultural coordinates, and Obama's intersection with history becomes almost inevitable.
To play weatherman for a moment, he is a perfect storm of the culture of narcissism, the cult of celebrity, and a secular society in which fathers (both the holy and the secular) have been increasingly marginalized from the lives of a generation of young Americans.
All of these trends have been gaining momentum the past few decades. Social critic Christopher Lasch named the culture of narcissism a generation ago and cited addiction to celebrity as one of the disease's symptoms -- all tied to the decline of the family.
That culture has merely become more exaggerated as spiritual alienation and fatherlessness have collided with technology (YouTube, Facebook, MySpace, etc.) that enables the self-absorption of the narcissistic personality.
Grown-ups with decades under their double chins may have a variety of reasons for supporting Obama, but the youth who pack convention halls and stadiums as if for a rock concert constitute a tipping point of another order.
One of Obama's TV ads, set to rock 'n' roll, has a Woodstock feel to it. Text alternating with crowd scenes reads: 'We Can Change The World' and 'We Can Save The Planet.'
Those are some kind of campaign promises. The kind no mortal could possibly keep, but never mind. Obi-Wan Obama is about hope -- and hope, he'll tell you, knows no limits.
It is thus no surprise that the young are enamored of Obama. He's a rock star. A telegenic, ultra-bright redeemer fluent in the planetary language of a cosmic generation. The force is with him.
But underpinning that popularity is something that transcends mere policy or politics. It is hunger, and that hunger is clearly spiritual. Human beings seem to have a yearning for the transcendent -- hence thousands of years of religion -- but we have lately shied away from traditional approaches and old gods.
Thus, in post-Judeo-Christian America, the sports club is the new church. Global warming is the new religion. Vegetarianism is the new sacrament. Hooking up, the new prayer. Talk therapy, the new witnessing. Tattooing and piercing, the new sacred symbols and rituals.
And apparently, Barack Obama is the new messiah.
Here's how a 20-year-old woman in Seattle described that Obama feeling: 'When he was talking about hope, it actually almost made me cry. Like it really made sense, like, for the first, like, whoa ... '
This New Age glossolalia may be more sonorous than the guttural emanations from the revival tent, but the emotion is the same. It's all religion by any other name.
Whatever the Church of Obama promises, we should not mistake this movement for a renaissance of reason. It is more like, well, like whoa.
Quoting the article:' 'If your candidacy is going to be about words, then they should be your own words,' Clinton said. 'Lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in. It's change you can Xerox.''
Hillary got booed by the audience for this stunt. It did NOT work. Something the article fails to mention.
She held her own against Senator Obama, but it is too little too late. She and he are selling the same ideas and he is quantum leap better than Senator Clinton at communications and salesmanship.
John McCain is going to have his hands full.
Billary. Next stop, back to New York. Sahme on them for believing your BS.
@KP posting about Obama. Sorry KP your post is complete nonsense.
Most of Obama's supporters are down to earth American realists, who believe in the separation of church and state. I will also suggest that there are agnostists and atheists who support Obama, and it is not because they see him as a new messiah. Sounds like you are stomping on the sour grapes for the pending loser Hillbillery, or you are just another crazed evangelical who believes anything you want to believe.
At times I thought Obama was doing his taxes. He was relaxed to the point of seeming distracted. It worked ok though - he had nothing to prove.
At the very start he could have nailed Hillary though. 'Will you meet with Raul Castro?' Clinton went off on her 'old school' diplomacy regarding Cuba. Preconditions and caveats galore. Bla bla bla. Reminded me of first lady scandals like Nancy and Raisa nearly going to war over cocktail dresses...
When it was his turn, Obama could have made a dramatic pause, looked at Hillary, then back at moderator, and said - 'OF COURSE I will talk to Raul. I want change. We need to do things differently. The same tired old protocols do not work....'
He kinda did it - but I think he really could have nailed Hillary as the tired old status quo. Oh well...
Is it true that her closing statement was basically lifted from Edwards?
Oh, and the debate on bilingual English/Spanish was stupid. Both candidates fail. How idiotic is it to even give lip service to allowing the country to go bilingual? Bilingual education has been proven to be an utter catastrophe for the poor kids.
Why just bilingual? Why not multi-lingual?
Why couldn't the candidates come out unequivocally in favor of English as an official language? I don't even understand Hillary's point that while she doesn't want English as official language, she does want it to be... what did she say?
If they are cowards on the easy obvious things - how will they fare on the tough, ugly, people are gonna die situations?
....the same way.
People, no one can be charged for plazarism when the info was given by the the original user and founder. What do you people do not understand! You all just want to run your mealy mouth because he is a black candidate, shut up and listen to what he has said and others have said. Hilary used Bill Clinton lines as well isn't that plazarism? Look at the awful Zerox comment, why not harp on that?
@wow
What the hell is plazarism?
In any case, one of the main reasons I would even consider voting for Obama is precisely because he is black. That is a big part of his 'story.'
If you want to pretend that your voting for him has nothing to do with his color - than you are a LIAR.
LIAR sems to be your favorite word. I can see why. It is short and something you know a lot about.
'in any case, one of the main reasons I would even consider voting for Obama is precisely because he is black.'
Gee Charles, you didn't strike me as a racist. :-D
But you are one of the few people here that have been honest about it.
Well John, Obama's blackness IS CERTAINLY part of his appeal. I am not sure if that makes me a racist though. I do not think that blacks are better than whites or oranges or lemons.
He represents positive change on many levels.
It will be interesting to see Obama/McCain debates. Let the best man win.
learn to speak English. There was nothing difficult about saying that. Why couldn't Hillary or Barack say that? It's what Ron Paul would say without batting an eyelash.
'Well John, Obama's blackness IS CERTAINLY part of his appeal.'
I would like to think that my fellow Americans are not going to consider electing a socialistic cult of personality because it might be fun to have a black president. Sorry, I am going to need to see some other qualifications.
to receive the lions share of U.S. benefit tax dollars if Obama is elected. His religion puts Africa ahead of everything. They are dedicated and devoted to the cradle of civilization; AFRICA and AFRICA only.
This is what both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are peddling. The main difference between them is that Senator Obama sings the tune better.
On a summer day in the month of May a burly bum came hiking
Down a shady lane through the sugar cane, he was looking for his liking.
As he roamed along he sang a song of the land of milk and honey
Where a bum can stay for many a day, and he won't need any money
Oh the buzzin' of the bees in the cigarette trees near the soda water fountain,
At the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings on the Big Rock Candy Mountains
There's a lake of gin we can both jump in, and the handouts grow on bushes
In the new-mown hay we can sleep all day, and the bars all have free lunches
Where the mail train stops and there ain't no cops, and the folks are tender-hearted
Where you never change your socks and you never throw rocks,
And your hair is never parted
Oh the buzzin' of the bees in the cigarette trees near the soda water fountain,
At the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings on the Big Rock Candy Mountains
Oh, a farmer and his son, they were on the run, to the hay field they were bounding
Said the bum to the son, 'Why don't you come to the big rock candy mountains?'
So the very next day they hiked away, the mileposts they were counting
But they never arrived at the lemonade tide, on the Big Rock Candy Mountains
Oh the buzzin' of the bees in the cigarette trees near the soda water fountain,
At the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings on the Big Rock Candy Mountains
One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fires were burning,
Down the track came a hobo hiking, and he said 'Boys, I'm not turning.'
'I'm heading for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountains;'
'So come with me, we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains.'
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains, there's a land that's fair and bright,
The handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars all are empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarete trees,
The lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains, all the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft-boiled eggs
The farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hay
Oh I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall, the wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains, you never change your socks
And little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew and of whiskey too
And you can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin,
And you can walk right out again as soon as you are in
There ain't no short-handled shovels, no axes, saws or picks,
I'm a-goin' to stay where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk that invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
I'll see you all this comin' fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains!
This ain't 'The Big Rock Candy Mountains'! It ain't the 'Promised Land', either. This here's the United States of America where there is REAL freedom. It's place where you are free to win AND free to fail. The original idea behind this country was to have a place where you could do well for yourself if you were willing to work hard AND smart. It never was about laying about on your backside and having the government come along and drop off your meals three times a day. It is damned silly of anyone to come here expecting to be mollycoddled and it is even sillier for an American to born here and expect that kind of treatment. Politicians who say anything else are lying to you, plain and simple. I suppose that's why Merle Haggard wrote this song:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs7fjN4Ct5U
If the government is obliged, by whatever means, to feed you, clothe you and see after your health, the government is going to find it necessary to control your lifestyle, right down to fining you for eating more than one hamburger in week. If you think I am kidding you about this, take a look at what welfare driven political correctness is doing to the United Kingdom. Personal liberty is all but moribund there.
If you want to be free, you have to take responsibility for yourself and your fate. This country wasn't made for sissies or lazy people. For that very reason, sissies and lazy people can't keep it free.
'Big Rock Candy Mountain' contrasted with the real world:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=it00yRBK9M0
'It never was about laying about on your backside and having the government come along and drop off your meals three times a day. It is damned silly of anyone to come here expecting to be mollycoddled and it is even sillier for an American to born here and expect that kind of treatment. Politicians who say anything else are lying to you, plain and simple.'
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Noharness 08!
'If the government is obliged, by whatever means, to feed you, clothe you and see after your health, the government is going to find it necessary to control your lifestyle, right down to fining you for eating more than one hamburger in week. If you think I am kidding you about this, take a look at what welfare driven political correctness is doing to the United Kingdom. Personal liberty is all but moribund there.'
interested-participant.blogspot.com/2008/02/smart-people-leaving-britai n-london.html
(London, England) According to a study by the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), smart people are leaving Britain. It's being called the largest exodus in 50 years.
As an analogy, I'd call it a correction, in Wall Street terminology, where people are investors and Britain is a stock. People (investors) are moving away from the stock (Britain) because they see more returns in other stocks (nations). Britain needs to improve its prospectus.
In any event, the rate of departures is alarming. One highly-skilled university graduate left Britain for good every three minutes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, throughout 2006. Of all the nations in the study, only Mexico had more people emigrate.
The most popular destinations are English-speaking countries such as Australia, America, Canada and New Zealand and holiday areas including France and Spain.
Almost 60 per cent of those leaving take jobs, although hundreds of thousands of retired people live abroad.
The report is a statistical analysis which does not study the motivation for leaving Britain. However, high house prices and taxes and poor climate are frequently cited.
The shadow Immigration Minister said people are leaving due to high taxes and government regulation imposed by a decade of Labor Party rule.
Even so, isn't it odd that so many people want to leave a nanny state and give up all the cradle-to-grave goodies?
Thanks, but I am not a candidate and likely never will be, but there is something I would like to hear Senator McCain say.
'I am not here to be your savior. I am not worthy to be such a thing and make no pretense that I am or ever could be! What I am here to do is to fight for mine and your freedom! That is what I have been doing for all of my adult life. I have fought in battle torn skies and I have fought right here at home. I will not promise you a free ride. I do promise to safeguard your freedom to take reign over your own life. That is what the United States was founded to do and any who claim otherwise are lying. What I can and do promise is to keep right on fighting for the freedoms that make you and me, Americans! But...But, I am just one man. If you want to stay free, then you have to help me do this job. I know you can do it because you have always done it before. The American people have always stood for themselves and wath they have always dearly believed and I know you can and will do it again.
We are not a nation of hapless boobs fit only to wear chains the doomsayers would forge for us. We are a free people and we will remain a free people and we WILL adapt and we WILL overcome, no matter what sort of trouble confronts us. We have no need for crutches. We are a strong, self-reliant people ready and able to fend for ourselves.'
I am sick unto death of hearing the weepy-eyed, limp-wristed bullshit the Democrats insist on espousing. Enough is, by Jove, enough!
RE:'Even so, isn't it odd that so many people want to leave a nanny state and give up all the cradle-to-grave goodies?'
The United States was founded by men and women willing to leave comfort in favor of opportunity and those kind of people have always been our best leaders. Making an effort to escape misery is a no-brainer. Making an effort to achieve something more than enforced comfort will allow is greatness.
The thing that worries me the most is that Obama says if he gets elected he will take the cap off social security taxes meaning that our taxes for that go up and he also wants to raise income taxes. If you read Class Matters, it says that it is the upper middle class, some of whom are not within reach of purchasing their own homes, who pay the highest percentage in taxes. So this just means that the people who already are bearing the greatest tax burden will bear an even higher tax burden and never be able to buy their own howm or send their kids to college. It's a type of slavery and it bothers me that a black person would be imposing this on us.
It isn't the color of a man's skin that matters, Mary Ann. It's what goes on between his ears. The Clintons have the exact same thing in mind. Fortunately, they are not nearly so slick when it comes to peddling their goo. Senator Obama will not get away with it either.
'...in slavery, everyone has a job...!' - Rev. Jesse Jackson
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Ted AndersonFeb 22nd, 2008 - 06:50:35
This debate shows once again how much hope we as Americans should have for the upcoming presidential election. All three remaining candidates will likely be a vast improvement over the current administration.
However, one candidate stands out clearly… and without saying who it is, you already know. This individual could be the finest and most impactual president since Teddy Roosevelt. The sheer symbolism of electing this person will not only mend racial fences domestically but will show the international community we are serious about sending our country in a new direction and dedicated to repairing the drastic affect the current administrations policy has had on Anti-American sentiment. The level of hope and potential for reform this individual offers is staggering and truly the most exciting political situation in my 32 years.
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