US News
Florida, Michigan get half-say in big blow to Clinton (4th Roundup)
Jun 1, 2008, 2:02 GMT
Democratic presidential candidate U.S. Hillary Clinton (2-L) dances with Senator Lucy Arce (L) and Charlie Rodríguez (C) during a campaign event in old San Juan, Puerto Rico, 30 May 2008. EPA/THAIS LLORCA
Washington - The Democratic Party Saturday agreed to give Florida and Michigan a voice in the US presidential nomination process despite their disputed January elections, but with only half their normal voting power in a significant blow to the dwindling ambitions of Hillary Clinton for the White House.
In a raucous meeting interrupted many times by heckling from Clinton supporters in the crowd, the party's rules committee approved but was unable to get unanimity on both decisions.
Clinton advisor Harold Ickes, in a stinging rebuke of the ruling, said it would 'hijack' the democratic process. He added that Clinton reserved the right to appeal the decision, which could carry the tight nomination battle into July or beyond.
The committee voted 27-0 to reinstate all of Florida's delegates, but only with half a vote each, in a compromise that reflects the results of the state's January 29 vote and gives Clinton 19 delegates more than her rival and clear frontrunner Barack Obama.
But it was Michigan's January 15 vote that was most controversial. Unlike in Florida, Obama's name did not appear on the Michigan ballot - 40 per cent voted for 'uncommitted' as urged by his campaign, while Clinton received 55 per cent.
Clinton supporters argued the election was still the best reflection of voter preferences and should be counted, which Obama's campaign strongly disputed.
The rules committee voted 19-8 for a proposal from the Michigan Democratic Party that gives Clinton only five more delegates than Obama, in a compromise that essentially halved Clinton's victory margin in the state.
The two states were stripped by the Democratic National Committee (DNC) of their seats at the presidential nominating convention in August in Denver, Colorado because they violated the party's schedule for primaries. Neither candidates campaigned in the two states ahead of the primaries.
The outcome set the stage for the final days of the costly and bitterly-fought Democratic primary elections. After five months and the outlay of hundreds of millions of dollars, only three events remain - in Puerto Rico on Sunday and Montana and South Dakota on Tuesday.
Democratic congressional leaders have called on the 160 or so special delegates to the convention - election officials and party officials - who have not yet done so, to pick sides quickly after polls close on Tuesday.
Supporters of Obama and Clinton on Saturday engaged in passionate, tense and at times testy exchanges over the disputed primaries, as Democratic leaders battled to maintain unity and keep the party's focus on winning back the White House in November.
'I am stunned that we have the gall and the hutzpah to substitute our judgement for 600,000 voters' in Michigan, said Ickes of the final decision. 'Hijacking four delegates (from Clinton) is not a good way to start down the path of party unity.'
Saturday's decision puts the goalline for capturing the party's nomination at 2,118 delegates to the August convention. Obama now has 2,050 to Clinton's 1,877, as the five-month-old series of state-by- state nominating contest nears an end.
Reinstating Florida and Michigan's delegates in full was one of Clinton's last hopes of wrestling the nomination from Obama, who could potentially reach the finish line as soon as Tuesday.
Hundreds of supporters - mainly Clinton's - gathered inside and outside the Washington hotel as the DNC's 30-member rules committee wrestled with challenges from Michigan and Florida's Democratic parties to seat their delegates.
Florida officials made a passionate plea for the state's votes to be counted and often evoked the disputed 2000 presidential election, which most Democrats believe President George W Bush unfairly won over Al Gore.
'I need not tell this committee that in Florida we're pretty sensitive about having our votes taken away,' said Florida Senator Bill Nelson.
Michigan's Democratic Party argued the state is crucial to winning November's general election against presumed Republican candidate John McCain.
The fine details of the US primary system have rarely taken on such a key role in an election. The DNC defended last year's threat to punish the two states, arguing they had to uphold discipline within the party.
But some committee members expressed regret over that original ruling.
'Do you believe in democracy? Then if you do, here is the next best thing,' said committee member Alice Huffman, a Clinton supporter who reluctantly supported Saturday's compromise.
Party leaders hope they can now put the debacle behind them, and urged Democrats to come together in time for the fall.
'We are strong enough to struggle and disagree, and even be angry and disappointed, and still come together at the end of the day and be united,' DNC Chairman Howard Dean said in opening the meeting.
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Meet us in Denver as we take back democracy away from the political machines and cooperate stooges!
During the Convention, there will be five major protests, one each day. Each protest will focus on a symptom of the disease of an Imperialist, Capitalist, Racist system as seen in our communities. Some of the proposed themes are as follows:
Sunday - End All Occupations at Home and Abroad
Monday - Human Rights/Free All Political Prisoners
Tuesday - No Borders
Wednesday - No Warming
Thursday - No Racism/Imperialism
As actions develop, we will post more information! Time to take our democracy back, from the floor of the convention!
It's bad enough Senator Clinton is making such a spectacle
of herself in prolonging the agony. I am only hoping the affair involving her personal assistant and herself stays undercover. According to
reports I have seen three New York papers have been sitting on this bombshell since November 2007.
Oh, it's already 1968 all over again. The Democrat Party is busting up like a covey of frightened quail and the GOP has nominated another closet socialist as its presidential nominee. What? You mean you guys forgot that Nixon won the White House? Just how thick can you get? Oh, but that's what you really want, isn't it? You WANT John McCain to win the White House.
Well, I'm going to vote against you. I am going vote for Senator Obama and hope he wins. The Democrats DESERVE Obama.
All the Dummercrats who voice their verbal abuse against SP4 are simply showing their inadequate intelligence, obviously an ingredient of low class Dummercrat zombies, who support their leaders whatever they are told.
The Lemming syndrome.
It is the age-old philosophy of the troglodyte and brainwashed idiot.
SP4 always gives a factual comment on all matters raised in these pages.
He is an undisputed Grand Master.
Those who are lacking in comprehension of what is being said, should really enrol for an infantile educational course on political and social science as well as learning that the United States is actually in North America.
It is no good showing blatant ignorance by hurling abuse at those who have the supreme intelligence to portray the factual evidence of events and can assimilate situations correctly. If you only have the educational standard of a five year old, don`t play games with the big boys.
When a peasant is faced with an educated synopsis they do not understand, they always resort to abuse, they have no intellectual choice. To swear, insult and curse is the natural resort of the ignorant.
SP4 always gives an extremely accurate text on all subjects and if the uneducated masses of the Dummercratic Party cannot understand such an artistry of interpretation, then they must go ahead and put their blind obedience in an insulting American disgrace like the two vile objects that the wretched Dummercratic party has put up to provide an American nightmare as President.
Ya wohl mein Fuhrer ! We will exterminate the American dream.
America has a proud and valiant history in the short period this country has carved out of the past 300-400 years by sheer blood, sweat, guts and tears. No other nation on earth has such a magnificent and hard earned record, not even the despicable British.
How such a hard won democracy can let an insulting and depraved political party like the Democrats get so much support from ordinary Americans, is beyond sane imagination.
To offer this great nation two unworthy and disgusting candidates for President of the United States, as they have done today - A WOMAN AND A NON-INDIGENOUS BLACK MAN is about the biggest insult any American can bestow on his nation.
To actually know that this scourge of a party have the support of 50 million people is unbelievable.
This slimy turn of a black man is SO against all that is WHITE, American and traditional, that he is so obviously still fighting a Malcolm 'X' and Black Panther syndrome.
For God`s sake America, get rid of this black curse to your way-of-life and freedom before he destroys everything you have fought for.
Once you let this vile creature into the White House, there will be no turning back - the disaster will be irretrievable. The prospect is a horrific nightmare for America and the entire world.
What the Japs, Germans and Russians never did, HE WILL and with your eternal blessing and gratitude if you all depart of your senses.
GO AHEAD - COMMIT POLITICAL AND DEMOCRATIC SUICIDE. HAVE A NICE DAY !
..your kind tried that and failed. In fact, you couldn't even manage to exterminate a people, something other totalitarians had done for centuries. On top of that, nazi uniforms look...well...fruity..ya know? Take off the swastikas and you could cruise any bar in San Francisco or the village.
Besides....your excellency.....you had better take another look at the dem players.
Obama has managed, in 8 years, to climb to the top of the dem party, making precise moves for power. This is not the mark of a doo dah fool. Now he may be stupid, but like Bush, he's NOT stupid about politics. He sat in theblack church, carefully built his constituancy and when a power vacuum hit, he pounced.
Hillary is essentially the same. She grabbed power quickly too, and leveraged her husbands old political machine to get her to the finish line. It was fast and effective.
The best part:for them: at the end of this EVERYONE will know who they are! I would bet that, if you polled now, more folks know who the dems are than the republican nominee.
So, before you shoot your mouth off again, go inform yourself..Mein Herr. The worst american leader is worlds ahead of what is out there.
So ponder this: why do you think I call some of these folks libnazis?
How about 3/5's?
OH dear, from your reply to my SEMPER FIDELIS, I know you don`t love me anymore. Kiss and make up ?
Get yourself a nice Rupert-the-Bear book in large print, a big Hershey bar, an ice bag for your head and go to bed. You are overdoing it on this complicated political thingy, it`s making you ill.
I thought you were a Republican, but after your expression of sheer infatuation with the Dummycratic Muppet Show, it looks like you have shown a Dummycrat flag. Don`t waiver now ESS PEE, or the other Dummycrat voter will feel mighty lonely on his own.
I`m dreaming of a WHITE Christmas, just like the one`s we used to know -- dee--daa--dee--daa.
Even the Russians are disgusted - they sent you this message ;-
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...another M&C tinfoil hat-wearing goof....
'Well, I'm going to vote against you. I am going vote for Senator Obama and hope he wins. The Democrats DESERVE Obama.'
Yes, you are doing that so it will blow up in Americas face, you have made that abundantly clear. At this point you are just repeating it because you are a lonely nut case and you want some attention.
Tell you what you deserve: you ought to be made to live in the skewed, 'Lord of the flies' vision of a society that you advocate.
I can't believe how many people are hoping the new president will be a bust and cause even more of a mess than we have now, just to prove a point. What about hoping for the best for our country, and maybe go out and try to find something good to do rather than constantly glued to your computers criticising and calling everyone every name under the sun and then some??
Yes, ... society that you advocate.'
Oh, come on, now, Bubba! You can do better than that! I know you can. Why don't you try tellin' us what it will be like? For all I know, it won't really be that much different from the way things are now.
'ou can do better than that! I know you can. '
Why bother? In My opinion you are actually far worse then the yammering obamatards that live in their own little hopey changey universe where everyone (else) must be forced into a paradigm that simply runs contrary to the fundamentals of human nature. You have the ability to see that it will produce a disaster yet that is what you are hoping for.
It is far, far worse to be a knowing accomplice in deliberately forsaking the future of the USA then to simply be a rube that has hoped on the bandwagon for belonging or the feeling of moral superiority.
'For all I know, it won't really be that much different from the way things are now.'
Ever consider that the main problem might be with you?
OH Mighty Oracle and Father of all knowledge, your praises have no bounds.
What we need in this Dummycrat Muppet Show is a 'FINAL SOLUTION'. Where ever have I heard that phrase before ? It seems extremely familiar ?
I must go and read up my personal signed copy of MEIN KAMPF and do some revision, after I take off this uncomfortable Obergruppenfuhrer uniform.
'I must go and read up my personal signed copy of MEIN KAMPF and do some revision, after I take off this uncomfortable Obergruppenfuhrer uniform.'
...especially the hat...it's way, way to tight on your head...
They can't see the forest for the trees and would never pay any attention to someone named Shar - most probably a woman.
RE:'Why bother? In My opinion you are actually far worse then the yammering obamatards that live in their own little hopey changey universe where everyone (else) must be forced into a paradigm that simply runs contrary to the fundamentals of human nature. You have the ability to see that it will produce a disaster yet that is what you are hoping for.'
Now, see there? That was more like what I was after, but you could do a helluva lot better. Why bother? Because you want to counter my insanity, remember? BTW, I really like the 'hopey-changey' line. You won't mind if I use it, will ya? I'm gonna use it anyway. It's a really good line.
RE:'It is far, far worse to be a knowing accomplice in deliberately forsaking the future of the USA then to simply be a rube that has hoped on the bandwagon for belonging or the feeling of moral superiority.'
Why shouldn't I? That's what John McCain is doing.
'Why shouldn't I? That's what John McCain is doing.'
Specifically, EXACTLY how? Instead of the deliberately ambiguous 'he cooperated with the democrats' crapola, how EXACTLY has he sold out the USA?
What is not a principled disagreement with your incredibly rigid and myopic world view (that isn't particularly conservative or workable but looks like it were thought up in a tree house...)and a deliberate sell out to the great forces of evil that have thwarted you from doing things like getting a prom date and growing up to be a cowboy?
I can't help it, that sentence was pretty clever!
It's like Texas Hold'em:
The same half dozen guys almost always end up at the finish. Why do you think is true?
Skill.
Politics has an element of luck, but it's not enough. It's not your positions either, or Nader and Ron Paul would be the front runners. It's not pure looks and charisma, or John Edwards would be here now.
No, the prime ingredient is political skill. Almost every president can be called good at politics, if nothing else. The other things matter too, make no mistake. Nixon was a good example of skill without charisma. He learned and the next time he won.
Political Skill. That is not a bad thing either because THAT is the game they play 24/7 after they are in:
Nasty, duplicitous, ruthless, Machiavellian, politics. After all, like they say in the republican party:'for god sakes, don't just get a simple peanut farmer!'
DON'T BE DUPED AGAIN AMERICA !!!
IT'S ABOUT ELECTABILITY !!!
Large numbers of BUSH_McCain Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on with the backing and help of the medical and insurance industry. Under the direction of the George Bush, and Karl Rove vote fraud, and vote manipulation machine. Because they feel Barack Obama would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And they want to stop Hillary Clinton from fixing the HUGE! American, and Global mess they have created. shocking!!! isn't it. Just gotta love those good old draft dodging, silver spoon Texas boys. Not! :-(
You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don't want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves off of you, and your children's suffering.
With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality affordable universal health care for everyone very soon. And you are also certain to see major improvements in the economy for everyone.
The American people face even worse catastrophes ahead than the ones you are living through now. It will take all of the skills, and experience of Hillary Clinton to pull the American people out of this mess we are in. Fortunately fixing up, and cleaning up others incompetence, immoral degeneracy, and mess is what the Clinton's do very well.
Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama's. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!
Just look at Oregon for example. Obama won Oregon by about 70,000 votes. But approximately 79,000 Bush republicans switched party's back in January to vote for Obama in the democratic primary. They are not going to vote for, or support any Democrat in November. Are you DEMOCRATS going to put up with that. Are you that stupid, and weak. The Bush republicans think you are that stupid, and weak.
As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses, and open primaries where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help. Except North Carolina where 35% of the population is African American, and approximately 90% of them block voted for him. African Americans are only approximately 17% of the general population.
Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton. This is even more phenomenal when you consider she has been also fighting against the George Bush, Karl Rove vote fraud machine in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses. Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!.
If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. That is crystal clear now. Because all of the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. And the demographics, and experience are completely against him. All of this vote fraud and Bush republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is.
You will have another McGovern catastrophe where George McGovern lost 49 of 50 states. And was the reason the super-delegates were created to keep that from happening again. Don't let that happen to the party and America again super-delegates. You have the power to prevent it. The only important question now is who can best win in November. And the answer is HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. That fact is also now crystal clear.
And YOUNG PEOPLE. DON'T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose. As do African Americans. Support Hillary Clinton. She will do her best for all of you. And she will know how to best get it done on day one.
The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.
The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.
Fortunately the Clinton's have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic, and heroic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen. Probably the best there has ever been. :-)
“This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)
Sincerely
jacksmith... Working Class :-)
p.s. Cynthia Ruccia - I'm with ya baby. All the way. 'Clinton Supporters Count Too.'
What an incredible dreamer you are !
Don`t you know even NOW that Keystone Clinton is DEAD, GONE,ALLES IST KAPUTT !!!!!!! All your mammoth screed of crap has done, is write her eternal epitaph. REST IN PEACE HILLARY.
All that is left for your divine heroine is for her to drop in the hole, preferably head first and some willing guy (must be millions of volunteers in the wings) to shovel the earth on top.
Your other heavenly idol, the ole Cocoa Bean himself, will get NOWHERE near the White House. He will be lucky to get 30 million reluctant mind blown votes and will be annihilated at the polls.
McCain will get the biggest majority in American political history - probably 58 million plus. There is NO option left for the American people.
All the strategic Republican voters who have been screwing up the Dummycrat Punch and Judy show, will then revert back and vote for McCain, together with a good half of the desecrated, disenchanted Dummycrats, who will be scared to death of putting ole Cocoa Bean in the Oval Office.
Re:'Specifically, EXACTLY how? Instead of the deliberately ambiguous 'he cooperated with the democrats' crapola, how EXACTLY has he sold out the USA?'
Oh, now, Bubba! I have been posting specifics all over these boards. You did remember your readin' glasses, didn't ya? But, since you asked here's a few you might what to think about.
First off, Senator McCain has never been considered to be a conservative, but a legislator with a fairly conservative voting record. What the numbers don't tell you is that he very often votes FOR the the most viciously collectivist crap dreamed up by the Democrats.
Then there's the fact that he has flirted with the idea of leaving the GOP at least twice:
//pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/73520465.html?dids=7352046 5:73520465&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jun+2%2C+2001&author=Thomas+B.+Edsall+a nd+Dana+Milbank&pub=The+Washington+Post&edition=&startpage=A.01&desc=McCain +Is+Considering+Leaving+GOP
//thehill.com/leading-the-news/democrats-say-mccain-nearly-abandoned-go p-2007-03-28.html
That first link had to have been the result of a trial balloon launched by Senator McCain or one of his minions. The second comes from the Democrats. Now, I have to admit that the Demmies are liable to do anything, but this one is too far fetched for me to think that it was made up out of whole cloth. Senator McCain was just very careful to maintain plausible deniability.
Then there is McCain-Feingold, which has, more or less crippled the GOP. Oh, and it was during the time that he was seeking support for this bit of legislation that started him thinking of the news media as his 'base'. Just about everybody should be impressed by that one, especially Democrats.
And there was Senator McCain's goofy BS over the Kyoto Protocol. It was arrived DOA in the US Senate. A 95-0 vote in the Senate rejected it outright, yet when President Bush followed President Clinton's example and the apparent wishes of the US Senate by no submitting the cursed thing to the Senate for ratification, who bitches about? Why, none other than John McCain!
He has sided with Joe Lieberman on gun control. He was a staunch defender of Jim Jeffords's decision to leave the GOP and stay in the Senate, thereby giving the Democrats a majority. He opposed the Bush tax reforms. His own constituents were so angry with him that they had launched a recall vote against him, but the World Trade Center Atrocity occurred during that campaign and it was dropped.
There's a lot more, Bubba, but I'm tired of writing it up.
RE:'What is not a principled disagreement with your incredibly rigid and myopic world view (that isn't particularly conservative or workable but looks like it were thought up in a tree house...)and a deliberate sell out to the great forces of evil that have thwarted you from doing things like getting a prom date and growing up to be a cowboy?'
Bwahahaha! That one was worthy of Helen Whatshername in the White House Press Corps. I'll do the best I can to answer your statement.
You're right about something. I am not considered a conservative by conservatives, but then the badly mislabeled liberals always class me as a conservative. I have voted Republican most of my life. My first political experience was nailing up Goldwater Posters in Edinburg, Texas. That's how I got to meet George Parr and his minions. It was a good thing that I was just a kid. I voted Libertarian against George Bush because I always thought he went along with the Democrats too much and because he approved of President Clinton granting MFN status to China. About the only time I find myself at loggerheads with conservatives is when they want to mix religion and state and whenever they adopt some stupid collectivist notion from the Democrats.
Remember that little bit of stuff you laid on me about why you would not support Obama? You wanna run that by me again?
Johnny'hello...yes this is senator McCain...'
Barak: Hi John..how's it going!?'
McCain'good Barak...good to hear from you! understand you have the nomination sewn up...good moves man! Gilad you are dealing out the shrew..for sure!'
Barak'god yes..now I'll get a few days to myself! Wish I'd done better in Puerto Rico..coulda visited the beaches and stuff...too bad huh? Man, I have Hillary on the ropes...can you imagine 8 years of THAT to deal with?'
MaCCain'God no...it'd be like a womens study group from hell for a decade...Puerto Rico huh?....yeah, nice this time of year...tan honeys...barbeque...liquor..'
Barak'yeah..well, maybe next time...what you been up to?'
MccCain'went to New Zealand'
Barak'yeah, staff said so..voters I don't know about?'
Mccain'not really...just wanted to go...never been there..beaches..honeys..wine...you know...'
Barak'yeah..I go to St Bart twice a year..'junket'...you know?'
McCain/Obama 'hahahahahahaha!'
MCCain' whats on your mind man?'
Barak'oh..my staff started talking debate and I wanted to call..you know'
MCcain: 'hey, appreciate the heads up...let's me plan my time..whats got ya spooked?
Barak'well...just what we should cover...I mean...well..look...I don't want to start slamming both of our connections..ya know....'
MCCain'god no!...I mean why drag all these special interests in...look how hard it is to get them working for you!'
Barak'yeah...my thoughts too! I mean, take energy...why f--k that up..?
MCCain' I know..nothing good will come out of it.. hell..it'll take years to put them back in the picture!'
Barak'exactly..and what for?..for nothing! Hey John...you're not going to bring My church up, are ya?'
MCCain'heck no! Look at the bean bag who's ass I had to kiss!'
Barak: yeah, I know...hell...every Sunday, listening to that crazy Nig--r, I mean..jesus!...I liked my Sundays off! Hell John, I'm an athiest for christs sakes! I've had to endure religous ed all my life, first from the goddam ragheads and then these f--king black jesus freaks! I mean...I was raised outside the US..I didn't have to play the nig--r until I got here. All that fatty food, all the complaining...it's a sh-tload of work John!'
McCain'all part of the job man! Hell...I'm an athiest too!
Barak:'you!?..John??'
McCain'sheeit Barak, I spent 5 years in a POW camp getting my ass beat..you really think I think there's a god, for chrissakes? Then, I come backand have to cow tow to the f--king goddamn religous right! Those child molestors!..makes me wanna wash!'
Barak'Hell yeah broham, no sh-t man! I see Ted Kennedy and say to myself..now there's a man who's go it all Barak!
MccCain: yeah Barak, but all that smokin, drinkin, drugs and f--kin is gettin himin the end...'
Barak: yeah, but what a way to go man! I mean..the guy gets more pussy than a toilet seat!
Obama/MCCain: hahahahahaha!
Barak:' Now look..I'm a little worried you're gonna cornhole me on my Big Coal connections...'
MCCain'you got big coal in your pocket?'
Barak:'yeah man..for years...
MCcain:'you gotta contact I can call..I've wanted to reach out...'
Barak: Sure John...always like to represent my homies..you know? By the way, you gotta contact on Big copper?'
McCain'you know it!....hell, this is Arizona Barak,we got copper money and illegals to spare buddy! Need any of them too?'
McCain/Obama: hahahahahahaha!
I've heard of Barack, but who is Barak???
'Oh, now, Bubba! I have been posting specifics all over these boards. You did remember your readin' glasses, didn't ya?'
20/10 vision... I just haven't been able to find my English to crackpot, crackpot to English dictionary.
'First off, Senator McCain has never been considered to be a conservative,'
By whom?
'but a legislator with a fairly conservative voting record. '
So in other words; what he does isn't important, it is what he is considered to be by folks yet unnamed that really defines him.
'What the numbers don't tell you is that he very often votes FOR the the most viciously collectivist crap dreamed up by the Democrats.'
--viciously collectivist—
Main Entry:
col·lec·tiv·ism Listen to the pronunciation of collectivism
Function:
noun
Date:
1857
1: a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control2: emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity
Just to be absolutely clear are we using definition number 1 or definition number 2?
'Then there's the fact that he has flirted with the idea of leaving the GOP at least twice:'
I did leave the GOP. The GOP used to stand for smaller government that was efficient and acccountable. They stood for fiscal responsibility and restraint. Control of our borders and individual responsibility. Can you honestly say that has been the actions of the GOP over the past 8 years? I am a registered independent.
Regardless: 'Absolutely not so, according to McCain. In a statement released by his campaign, McCain said, “As I said in 2001, I never considered leaving the Republican Party, period.”'
'That first link had to have been the result of a trial balloon launched by Senator McCain or one of his minions. The second comes from the Democrats.'
The first link was un-openable the 2nd one was the equivalent of beauty parlor gossip but regardless, what would it signify if he had? Instead of a tax and spend liberal, the republicans had put borrow and spend 'conservative' at the head of the ticket. Again, he 1)denies it. 2)has fought the good fight in the senate against waste, mostly against the Republican majority that was doing most of the wasting. I would much rather elect someone who did the right thing and ruffled some feathers by doing it then went along with the crowd and bellied up top the trough with the rest of the pigs. (As Clinton and Obama were more then happy to do.)
'Then there is McCain-Feingold, which has, more or less crippled the GOP.'
McCain/Finegoald, as wrong as it was didn't cripple the GOP, the GOP crippled the GOP.
'Oh, and it was during the time that he was seeking support for this bit of legislation that started him thinking of the news media as his 'base''
God forbid we should have anyone capable of talking to the media. Why not put Bush back on the ticket? Look at all the great things not being capable of communicating has done for him.
'Just about everybody should be impressed by that one, especially Democrats.'
They don't need to be impressed by McCains ability to communicate... they have Obama who is probably the most gifted orator since Bill Clinton. (If only people would hear WHAT he is saying rather then HOW he is saying it.)
'And there was Senator McCain's goofy BS over the Kyoto Protocol. It was arrived DOA in the US Senate. A 95-0 vote in the Senate rejected it outright,'
McCain has said he will not sign the Kyoto Protocol. He has also said that he would consider something like it only if China and India agree to bring their emissions to Kyoto target levels which is actually pretty clever. Think about what our emissions were in 1990 and think about what theres were. We were already industrialized and they were not. With modernization and increased efficiency we are almost at 1990s levels without even trying. China is building a new coal fired electricity plant once a week.
'He has sided with Joe Lieberman on gun control.'
The 'gun show loophole' thing???
'He was a staunch defender of Jim Jeffords's decision to leave the GOP and stay in the Senate, thereby giving the Democrats a majority.'
How can you kick someone out for changing their party affiliation? Seriously? The idea that you could toss Jeffords out was just a pipe dream and unconstitutional.
'He opposed the Bush tax reforms.'
$300 bucks back and a 10 trillion dollar debt. He also opposed the out of control spending! Bush didn't veto any of it.
'His own constituents were so angry with him that they had launched a recall vote against him,'
Gun show loophole thing again. Oh well, as a gun owner my rights have never been impeded by someone else not having an exemption to federal law. Arazona is one of the easiest states to own a hand gun in the union.
'There's a lot more, Bubba, but I'm tired of writing it up.'
OK bubba, I have gone through it point by point. Here is the thing that hasn't changed throughout my entire presentation. It is the beginning and end of my 'sales pitch'. McCain is imperfect. He has ideas that I disagree with. He is however a whole lot better then the alternative.
Viciously collectivist crap? Take a look at Chicago. Actually that is giving it more credit then it is due. Cronyism and incompetence with a huge helping of old fashioned theft. Collectivist? With state government seizing private property, running it in to the ground, selling it off to cronies, giving them tax payer loans to rehabilitate it which wound up back in their pockets, watching as their cronies sold it off to other cronies and then giving them tax payer subsidized bank loans which were defaulted on, the money winding it’s way back in to their pockets, only to be seized again to have the cycle start over again… Collectivist? Try “gangsta”…
That’s what Obama has presided over, indeed that is what helped him buy his house. Where is the equivalent in Arizona?
Gun control? PLEASE… rated worst in the senate.
Kyoto, “tax reforms”… McCain’s opponents are for it and against them.. indeed they have pledged to sign it and raise your taxes, which wouldn’t be such a problem if the money were going to reduce the debt instead of being destined to be completely flushed down the toilet in an entitlement program that makes the “new deal” look like Hoover bulldozing the bonus marchers.
All of this you KNOW already… yet by your own admission you would like to see it happen in order to bring about a collapse that is not destined to happen. A collapse that can and should be avoided.
...these senators do what they do AS senators...not as Presidents. That's the rub: they have a record, but it is a SENATORIAL record.
“I have voted Republican most of my life. My first political experience was nailing up Goldwater Posters in Edinburg, Texas.”
Heh, Well here:
Many conservatives realistic enough to know there will never be 'another Reagan' nevertheless wish at least for another Barry Goldwater. They don't realize that we already have one. His name is John McCain.[…]
John McCain is not a conservative champion. But he deeply believes, and strongly champions, many conservative principles, many Goldwaterite principles. We certainly could do worse than to be stuck with him as our own, infuriating, headstrong, bullying, honor-obsessed, indefatigable, and sometimes downright inspirational SOB.
Read the article:
www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13294
And honestly, I am not even all that socially conservative. I am a big believer in minding your own business.
“Remember that little bit of stuff you laid on me about why you would not support Obama? You wanna run that by me again?”
I am an American.
I have pledged that I would do the best for my country and much to my personal aggravation and those around me I have a difficult time in putting expiration dates on promises.
I think it is an unbelievably horrible idea to surrender to the islamists who have pledged themselves to our destruction.
I do not think it is a good idea to wreck the country in order to save it. If McCain screws up, I will work to find some way of mitigating the damage or helping to change the direction being taken.
Therefore, I will vote for McCain because I believe he is more capable, has better ideas and is more sincere about preserving the USA’s status, re-affirming what has made us great and preserving the USA for future generations of Americans.
That is why I can not support Obama.
I am (S)pecial (P)oopie #4 or SP4
You have #1
You have #2
#3 is: vomit
#4 is: diarrhea
All you American ignorant turd-balls, wasting your time prattling on about this disgusting and slimy Dummycrat fiasco, should go and have a head scan. It could be serious.
NOBODY in the US is going to elect either some wrinkled old woman or a black shoe-shine boy as President. The prospect is so idiotic that it could only come out of a mental asylum or the sick minds of Hollywood script writers.
GOD ! don`t all you brain-dead zombies realise that this Dummycrat Punch and Judy show is NOT about silly personal loyalties to some bum political party trying to be civilised.
It is about electing the President of the United States of America !!!
When some obscene political crap heap organisation decides to put up people that are totally inferior to the general population for President, then AMERICA, it is time to seriously worry about your mental sanity and future.
Come off it America - tell us all it is a huge joke please, put us all out of our misery. Perhaps ome distorted edition of Fear Factor with Joe Rogan directing the contestants ?
Or maybe a fairytale fantasy put on for the tourists, you know like Mary Poppins or Robinson Crusoe and his man Friday.
HOW can you possibly be in control of your senses to put up a wrinkled old woman - the white witch and some Sambo from the cotton fields for PRESIDENT !
It just has to be a joke. OK, let me guess - it`s a political variation of the Jerry Springer show.
GOD, I`ve ruptured myself laughing ! Osama Bin Laden - Obama`s idol, has declared a truce while his valiant army of suicidal nutters recover from their hysterics.
Goldwater and Nixon? That has re-enforced my suspicions that this is an old man's site!
“I have voted Republican most of my life. My first political experience was nailing up Goldwater Posters in Edinburg, Texas.”
RE:'John McCain is not a conservative champion. But he deeply believes, and strongly champions, many conservative principles, many Goldwaterite principles. We certainly could do worse than to be stuck with him as our own, infuriating, headstrong, bullying, honor-obsessed, indefatigable, and sometimes downright inspirational SOB.'
I can ALMOST agree. When it comes to defending the US from outside threats I give him full credit, but I do not see the outside threats as being our greatest danger. He gave a speech to AIPAC this morning and it was a good one and I agreed with nearly every point. Unfortunately, he STILL does not appear to see the link between our energy needs and the problems in the Middle East. If he does see the linkage, he appears to discount it too heavily. Either because he does not believe it to have that much impact, or because he believes the problem to be intractable. Neither assumption is true. The problem IS tractable. It is largely a matter of common sense and scheduling.
I read the article you linked, plus another article linked to it:
www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12512
There is a lot of truth in both pieces.
I want you to understand something. I do understand that you were closer to it than I was and that it was YOUR city, not mine that suffered through that horrible fall and winter of 2001. I was off work that day and gone over to see my dad. I found sitting in front of the television, mesmerized by horror. He told me that an airplane had accidentally struck the World Trade Center. No member of the general public could know at that point that it was anything but an accident. I mentioned that the building was doomed and that the fire crews needed to get people away from the building as quickly as possible. My Dad did not agree, pointing out that the building was made of steel. While I was trying to explain to the old man about the limits of steel, the second airplane struck. We saw it happen in real time.
Both of us immediately understood then that this was no accident. We both understood that this had been done deliberately and that we were at war. I stood there watching with tears running down both cheeks, fighting off the urge to try and call the authorities in New York, knowing it would be a futile effort. I stood there watching knowing that both of those buildings were going to collapse and there there was nothing I or anyone else could do to change that. I told my dad that New York City was about to lose most of its fire department, knowing that no power on earth was going to drag them out of harm's way before the buildings fell on them. We were, after all, talking about a bunch of New Yorkers. Damned few of them are short on guts.
The peace-at-any-price crowd makes me sick at my stomach. Every time I have to listen to one of them, I grind my teeth. I suspect that even though they bring tears of fury to my eyes, they bother you a good deal more than they do me. I do understand--as well as anyone can. It was your town, your fire department, your friends and neighbors, not mine. It was, however, my country. I may not be as angry as you are, but I most certainly am angry. I want these bastards hunted down like the rabid dogs they are and I want them shot. No, I want them staked out immobilized on an ant hill or a beach. I am thoroughly aggrieved now as I was then, perhaps more so.
One of my greatest sources of anger at President Bush is that his Administration has not done near enough quickly enough. I do not remember being this frustrated, not even when we were tangled up in Vietnam.
Re:'I think it is an unbelievably horrible idea to surrender to the Islamists who have pledged themselves to our destruction.'
I agree, but I do not believe that Barak Obama would. In fact, he has said something that I happen to agree with. The Pakistanis lay claim to several regions bordering on Afghanistan, but they do not even pretend to govern them. How is it then, that they can maintain legitimate claim over those areas if they do not exercise sovereignty over them? As far as I am concerned they cannot. And, if enemies of my country are using those areas for safe harbor I see no GOOD reason not to invade them and kill off our enemies in those areas. The Pakistanis are welcome to whistle down a well unless they want to help us invade. For the sake of brevity I will not address all the details.
Re:'I do not think it is a good idea to wreck the country in order to save it.'
We are already headed for the rocks. Given the things Senator McCain is willing to go along with the Democrats on, I can't see how they can be avoided.
RE:'If McCain screws up, I will work to find some way of mitigating the damage or helping to change the direction being taken.'
Then the major disagreement between us is a matter of timing. I want him put on notice RIGHT NOW. I want him to know that I have no faith in him on several vitally important domestic issues. Unless he is willing to assure me and others like me that he understands our concerns and affirms that he will see after those concerns, instead of swelling up and blowing shit at us, I have insufficient reason to support his bid for the White House.
RE:'Therefore, I will vote for McCain because I believe he is more capable, has better ideas and is more sincere about preserving the USA’s status, re-affirming what has made us great and preserving the USA for future generations of Americans.'
So our disagreement is not all that complex, but potent nonetheless.
RE:'That is why I can not support Obama.'
I dislike supporting Barak Obama, but I WILL. I think that the Democrats will get greedy right away and overreach, thereby sewing the seeds of their own destruction if Obama is in the White House. After two years we would have Republican majority in the House and Senate--a fresh crop of Republicans. I fear that having John McCain in the White House will lead to an eight year long love-fest between him and the Democrats. That turns my stomach.
Re 9/11, yes, it was a bad day and yes I am still very, very angry about it.
“One of my greatest sources of anger at President Bush is that his Administration has not done near enough quickly enough.”
OK, so you want to vote for someone who will 'feel their pain'?
Invading Pakistan would be a very bad idea. “Quickly enough” is the key here. Our enemy thinks in terms of centuries and harbors grudges for even longer. In order to defeat them we will need patience, which is not an American attribute.
“I agree, but I do not believe that Barak Obama would.”
He has said he would. He has vowed that he would actually. He has promised to do so on so many forums and in so many statements that it is incredible to me that you could come to that conclusion. The things that we are fighting need to understand that if you screw with us you are going to lose. They need to be killed off and their cause needs to be humiliated which is a punishment worse then death in that culture. They have declared Iraq their “number 1” battlefield against the west. The only way we can not achieve our objectives there at this point is to deliberately lose the thing, which is EXACTLY what he, Pelosi and Reid plan on doing.
“And, if enemies of my country are using those areas for safe harbor I see no GOOD reason not to invade them and kill off our enemies in those areas.”
We have Special Forces operating in those areas. We also have American forces guarding their nuclear stockpile. If we were to invade on a large scale there would be absolutely no guarantee that we would find anything there, we would lose the forces that we have operating there already and we would galvanize the Pakistanis against us. Again; we would produce an unstable Pakistan and lose our troops operating there now, an unstable Pakistan with no American troops guarding their nuclear weapons. Enraged jihadies + nuclear weapons...
If I thought it would get Bin Laden/al Zawahiri I might say fine, lets do it. I do not though. No one is sure they are even there. If Eric Rudolph can hide in the mountains of Alabama for 5 years without any real recourses while the full force of the FBI hunted for him do you think that a bunch of infantry beating the bushes with sticks (in a country that is 30% larger then the state of Texas) while the Pakistanis took pot shots at them would dig the SOB up?
“We are already headed for the rocks.”
1)It isn’t as dire as you make it out to be.
2)Steering the ship directly in to the rocks in order to save it doesn’t make any sense what so ever.
Given the things Senator McCain is willing to go along with the Democrats on, I can't see how they can be avoided.
The things that you have tossed out are hardly the crimes against humanity that you wish me to believe they are. Is it better to deliberately antagonize them just for the sake of antagonizing them? If they say up it is somehow his duty to say down? No. That is simply reflexive and stupid.
“Then the major disagreement between us is a matter of timing.”
I think it is something more then that to be honest. I think you the American government as the obverse of the same coin that the leftists see it; a conservative nanny state. If McCain isn’t going to do exactly what you want him to do then that is the end of it. Nothing else can be done. That isn't true. Regardless, the major disagreement between us is that you do not want the country to go in the direction that Obama wants to take it so you have come up with the idea that it is a great idea to vote for Obama because he will take it in the direction that you do not want it to go.
I want him put on notice RIGHT NOW.
So this is a hissy fit to get him to say and do the things you want him to say and do. (Even if he did you wouldn’t believe him.) He probably is not going to do everything you want him to do. So toss the baby out with the bath water?
“I dislike supporting Barak Obama, but I WILL.”
Nothing emotional there... Suit yourself. I hope you will understand if I chime in occasionally that it is both stupid and, with your understanding of the situation, treasonous to support someone precisely because you believe he will damage the country.
“I think that the Democrats will get greedy right away and overreach, thereby sewing the seeds of their own destruction if Obama is in the White House.”
You just don’t get it, even seeing it spelled out here every day. What the Democrats do is completely irrelevant. It is how the public perceives them. They could start feeding the constitution into a shredder tomorrow and if the public can be persuaded that it is recycling they would be demanding that we recycle the Declaration of Independence next. If they buy off enough, if they give away enough of what doesn't belong to them, if they pander and capitulate they can keep it going until there is nothing left to dole out. That's longer then 4 years and with 2 branches of government what will stop them?
“After two years we would have Republican majority in the House and Senate--a fresh crop of Republicans.”
That is just an incredible leap of faith that probably wont happen and even if it did, you are completely ignoring the damage that will be done by at least 4 years of Obama. The republicans are going to lose MORE seats in congress and the senate this election cycle. Even if they were to recapture some in 2/4 years I HIGHLY doubt that they would get the majority and I guarantee you that they will not get a veto proof majority.
Pinning your hopes on that is ludicrous.
“I fear that having John McCain in the White House will lead to an eight year long love-fest between him and the Democrats.”
I have absolutely no doubt what so ever that will NEVER happen. Even still, the alternative is to have an unobstructed love fest between Obama and the democrats for at least 4 years.
RE:'OK, so you want to vote for someone who will 'feel their pain'? '
No, but I will.
RE:'Invading Pakistan would be a very bad idea. “Quickly enough” is the key here. Our enemy thinks in terms of centuries and harbors grudges for even longer. In order to defeat them we will need patience, which is not an American attribute.'
We would not be invading Pakistan, but territory Pakistan claims yet does not rule nor take responsibility for. Patience, yes. Lethargy, no.
Re:'He has said he would. He has vowed that he would actually. He has promised to do so on so many forums and in so many statements that it is incredible to me that you could come to that conclusion.'
He has said that he would withdraw from Iraq. He might well attempt to do so. It will backfire.
RE:'The things that we are fighting need to understand that if you screw with us you are going to lose. They need to be killed off and their cause needs to be humiliated which is a punishment worse then death in that culture.'
We've already blown that. We've been fighting them now for a longer period of time than we fought WWII. If you say we have been fighting them that long because we haven't gotten serious about defeating them, I will agree. The Bushbaby has been so afraid of the Democrats and the UN that he has not ordered this war to be fought the way it should have been fought. Now we have the Iranians in a position to give us grief at will.
RE:'They have declared Iraq their “number 1” battlefield against the west. The only way we can not achieve our objectives there at this point is to deliberately lose the thing, which is EXACTLY what he, Pelosi and Reid plan on doing.'
Yes, Old Harry and the Dear Speaker are truly nasty pieces of work. They worry me a good deal more than Osama Bin Laden. However, they can ill afford a disaster in Iraq.
We have Special Forces ... Enraged jihadies + nuclear weapons...'
Pakistan is already unstable. It is increasingly unstable because President Bush yielded to pressure from the Democrats and force Musharraf out of office. Matters in Pakistan are going to worsen rapidly over the next year. I've been keeping track of Pakistan, but more on that later. You and I have other fish to fry.
RE:'If I thought it would get Bin Laden/al Zawahiri I might say fine, lets do it.'
There are never any guarantees.
RE:'1)It isn’t as dire as you make it out to be.'
It's dire. Have you taken a look at S3036 yet? We are now looking at something close to seven trillion in expenditures and creating 35 to 40 new federal agencies. Oh, and this is just the beginning.
2)Steering the ship directly in to the rocks in order to save it doesn’t make any sense what so ever.
It's already too late to turn. The only thing we can decide on now is who will be at the helm when she runs aground. I want the Democrats to be responsible for knocking a hole in our hull, not the Republicans.
RE:'The things that you have tossed out are hardly the crimes against humanity that you wish me to believe they are. Is it better to deliberately antagonize them just for the sake of antagonizing them? If they say up it is somehow his duty to say down? No. That is simply reflexive and stupid.'
No, it is his job to refute their stupid ideas and defeat them politically. He attempts to do neither. He cozies up to them. He befriends them and alienates the members of his own party. Oh, and this global warming crap IS a crime against humanity. It's a scam. Social Security was a scam. Perpetrating the notion that socialism works, even after it can be seen as a demonstrable failure every where tried is a crime against humanity. Denying the use of DDT to the people in desperate need of it was a crime against humanity. Barbara Boxer crying a pitching a hissy-fit about the cormorants caught in an oil spill while we turned Iraqi teenagers into hamburger was just about as obscene a goddamned thing as I have EVER seen. None of these idiots deserve the love and care John McCain lavishes on them. They are mix of empty-headed fools and villains.
RE:'I think it is something more then that to be honest. I think you the American government as the obverse of the same coin that the leftists see it; a conservative nanny state.'
Not hardly. That is John McCain's line, not mine. He's the one who's backing a massive increase in government control over your life and mine. It is one of the reasons I oppose him. I want to live in the United States of America, not MEXICO. I want to keep my money, not give more of it to the government just to see it wasted on useless crap. I want to cut down trees on my place if I see fit and not have to worry about a non-existent woodpecker or the winter nesting habits of the golden cheeked warbler. I want to know if my daughter is seeking an abortion. If she is need of one, there a few things we need to talk about—Don't you think? I would like for us to have a school system that actually teaches reading, writing and arithmetic. It would be real nice if the school system held a sufficient pace that my kids could learn some basic algebra instead of me having to teach to them at home. Honest to Athena, Bubba, I'm glad the government has not seen fit to get into the ice cream business. I am not too enthused with the idea of frozen shit for dessert.
RE:'If McCain isn’t going to do exactly what you want him to do then that is the end of it. Nothing else can be done. That isn't true.'
So what can be done other than encouraging the Democrats to self-destruct? Explain it to me, because I can't see it. We are going to let this collectivist pretending to be a Republican run the show without restraint, or objection to anything he proposes? Are we really so afraid of the Big Bad Bin Laden and Mahmoud Amhadinejad that we will go along with having the nation ruined from within by bad leadership? Those two fanatics are far less of a threat to us than Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. I want a leader who will stand up to their stinking asses, not mollycoddle them so that he can relive the life of a fighter jock.
RE:'Regardless, the major disagreement between us is that you do not want the country to go in the direction that Obama wants to take it so you have come up with the idea that it is a great idea to vote for Obama because he will take it in the direction that you do not want it to go.'
Yes, because I think that the majority of Americans will find it objectionable in the extreme and it will, shortly thereafter, cost him and the majority of Democrats their jobs for the next twenty years.
RE:'So this is a hissy fit to get him to say and do the things you want him to say and do. (Even if he did you wouldn’t believe him.) He probably is not going to do everything you want him to do. So toss the baby out with the bath water? '
You got a better way of getting his attention? What else would you have me do? I can't just up and shoot his hat off, he never wears one. I don't expect him to do everything I want. No politician ever does. That would be an unreasonable expectation. I DO expect him to do enough to earn my support and he has not done that in the past and I have no reason to expect him to do so in the future.
RE:'Nothing emotional there... Suit yourself. I hope you will understand if I chime in occasionally that it is both stupid and, with your understanding of the situation, treasonous to support someone precisely because you believe he will damage the country.'
I'm counting on that, Bubba. I'd be disappointed if you didn't.
RE:'You just don’t get it, even seeing it spelled out here every day. What the Democrats do is completely irrelevant. It is how the public perceives them. They could start feeding the constitution into a shredder tomorrow and if the public can be persuaded that it is recycling they would be demanding that we recycle the Declaration of Independence next. If they buy off enough, if they give away enough of what doesn't belong to them, if they pander and capitulate they can keep it going until there is nothing left to dole out. That's longer than 4 years and with 2 branches of government what will stop them?'
So I should go along with an alleged Republican who aids and abets this insanity? I should SUPPORT this kind of 'Republican'? Even though he might enjoy eight years in the White House? This is exactly what John McCain has been doing and, as far as I can tell, will keep right on doing if elected to the presidency. What will stop them is their own misbehavior, provided that misb lacks the stamp of approval from Republican leadership. You seem to believe that the American people will go along with them without objection. I do not share your pessimistic opinion of them.
RE:'That is just an incredible leap of faith that probably won't happen and even if it did, you are completely ignoring the damage that will be done by at least 4 years of Obama. The republicans are going to lose MORE seats in congress and the senate this election cycle. Even if they were to recapture some in 2/4 years I HIGHLY doubt that they would get the majority and I guarantee you that they will not get a veto proof majority.'
Now look who is using a crystal ball. Right now the GOP is about as limp and useless as I have EVER seen it. Something needs to be done to get them back up off their asses and anger is just about the best thing I know of to get them going again. If you can think of something better, other than John McCain leading a group of spineless boobs dominated by Democrats, let me know.
Re:'I have absolutely no doubt what so ever that will NEVER happen.'
Oh, really, and you have evidence to reassure me on this point? I certainly find no reassurance in Senator McCain's erratic voting pattern and attitude towards the members of his own party. From what I can see, the Democrats play John McCain as though he were a violin.
Re:'Even still, the alternative is to have an unobstructed love fest between Obama and the democrats for at least 4 years. '
This is something we will continue to disagree on. I do NOT for one minute believe that Obama would have a happy mid-term election period.
You seem to think that we will find ourselves going through what we did after LBJ got elected. I don't think that will be the case this time.
' No, but I will.'
Knock yourself out. It is one thing to do something out of ignorance, however doing something specifically in order to injure the country makes you a traitor.
'We would not be invading Pakistan, but territory Pakistan claims yet does not rule nor take responsibility for.'
You haven't read a word I have written.
' He has said that he would withdraw from Iraq. He might well attempt to do so. It will backfire.'
Backfire? It will get a lot of Americans killed and lose us the conflict and yes, he will do it and yes, we will pull out even if we have to destroy equipment in place.
THEY ARE SERIOUS TO THE POINT WHERE THEY MIGHT HAVE TO DESTROY EQUIPMENT IN PLACE... THAT IS WHAT THE MARINES HAVE BEEN TOLD.
'We've already blown that.'
Bull, they see any presence ofthe infidel in 'muslim lands' as humiliation.
'The Bushbaby has been so afraid of the Democrats and the UN that he has not ordered this war to be fought the way it should have been fought. '
We should just nuke em... right?
'They worry me a good deal more than Osama Bin Laden. However, they can ill afford a disaster in Iraq.'
Are you kidding? You are just not seeing reality. To them this is 'Bush's war'. A 'disaster' will give them the opportunity to say 'I told you so'. They have been pushing for 'disaster' for years now.
'Pakistan is already unstable.'
So make it worse... probably so it will rebot.
'It's already too late to turn. '
Bull.
' I want the Democrats to be responsible for knocking a hole in our hull, not the Republicans.'
It will be a bipartisan hole with plenty of blame to go around. Let alone for duplicitous idiots like yourself who whined that you wern't getting your way while voting for the people who were going to do the opposite of what you supposedly wish for.
'No, it is his job to refute their stupid ideas and defeat them politically.'
Well, the thing is we have this pesky thing called a democracy. Most people disagree with the 'smart ideas' now because they are 'hard' so they are voting for the stupid ones. You are as well by the way, I guess that makes you stupid.
'. He befriends them and alienates the members of his own party. '
Boo fricking hoo, he had drinks with Clinton instead of macing her on the spot. You intend to vote for her party you hypocrite.
' Oh, and this global warming crap IS a crime against humanity. '
Yeah, just like islamist terrorism... Oh wait, no, no it isn't.
' Social Security was a scam. '
Better to have bread lines eh? Well you are voting for programs that dwarf social security, you hypocrite socialist.
'Denying the use of DDT to the people in desperate need of it was a crime against humanity'
Better to wipe out the bald eagle...
'None of these idiots deserve the love and care John McCain lavishes on them.'
He should tazer them on sight, that would win you over... Oh well, I guess you are not going to get won over because what you advocate is stupid and self defeating. Zero compromise usually means that you get ALL of Nothing.
Yes, Boxer is an idiot. She also happens to be an elected idiot who represents a large constituency of idiots who have a say in the democratic process. Ignoring that is simply burying your head in the sand.
'He's the one who's backing a massive increase in government control over your life and mine.'
NO HE IS NOT.
'I want to live in the United States of America, not MEXICO.'
Do you lift a finger or contribute a nickel to organizations like FAIR immigration? No, you seethe and whine on the internet and expect that your vote will take care of everything. Meanwhile the people who want to turn this in to the 'United States of MEXICO' are out making it happen. In other words you want to elect some conservative nanny state to fix everything without any real effort on your part.
' I want to keep my money, not give more of it to the government just to see it wasted on useless crap'
Yet you are going to vote for Obama.
'I want to cut down trees on my place if I see fit and not have to worry about a non-existent woodpecker...'
So McCain will prevent you from cutting down trees...
'. I want to know if my daughter is seeking an abortion. If she is need of one, there a few things we need to talk about—Don't you think?'
Yet you intend to vote for Obama...
'I would like for us to have a school system that actually teaches reading, writing and arithmetic. '
Yet you are going to vote for the guy who is goig to turn it all over to the teachers unions..
'. It would be real nice if the school system held a sufficient pace that my kids could learn some basic algebra instead of me having to teach to them at home. '
It would be nice if the nanny state would take care of all the education so you didn't have to.. yet you worry about what they are being educated to do... Riiight... You are not after a government, you are after a mommy to tell you it is fine to go cut down your woodpecker trees. Just go cut down the f-ing tree for Christ sake.
'I'm glad the government has not seen fit to get into the ice cream business. I am not too enthused with the idea of frozen s**t for dessert.'
Apparently you think you don't have a choice in the matter.
'So what can be done other than encouraging the Democrats to self-destruct? '
Gee, I donno, fight the good fight? Get organized, go out and stand up for what you believe in? Oh I forgot, that is hard, better vote for Obama...
'Are we really so afraid of the Big Bad Bin Laden and Mahmoud Amhadinejad that we will go along with having the nation ruined from within by bad leadership?'
Choice 1) Obama... Choice 2)McCain.
McCain is not 'bad leadership'. He is a good man. And yes, you should be concerned 'Big Bad Bin Laden and Mahmoud Amhadinejad' because they want to do worse things to you then take your ddt away you big crybaby.
'Those two fanatics are far less of a threat to us than Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.'
So you are going to vote Obama.
'Yes, because I think that the majority of Americans will find it objectionable in the extreme and it will, shortly thereafter, cost him and the majority of Democrats their jobs for the next twenty years.'
You are living in a fantasy world. If Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama can get to where they are now by doing the things they have done and believing the things they do do you really think that enough people will find them 'objectionable in the extreme'? Teddy Kennedy has had a 46 year career...
The idea that it will blow up enough in their faces to produce such a reaction is incredibly far fetched, indeed it will not happen. It could just as well mean that we have 16 years of progressively intrusive socialism in the country. If they van get enough control over the means of production, over the media (WHICH THEY ARE) they could fix it so that there is nothing left to fight about.
Sorry, this is my country, and I have a newsflash for you, there isn't anywhere else to escape to. Deliberately turning it over to people who you believe are going to wreck it is such a fundamentally stupid proposition that I can't believe that that anyone could have even thought it up.
Indeed, if you have been getting this off some kind of radio program or website it is a fair bet that the whole stupid idea was hatched to sew confusion among the easily confused by some gifted leftest PR flack.. If you thought it up yourself it is just incredibly self-defeating.
'You got a better way of getting his attention? '
Yes, organize, write letters, call, get involved. Simply voting for the opposition will be seen for what it is; an endorsement of their ideas.
'I DO expect him to do enough to earn my support and he has not done that in the past and I have no reason to expect him to do so in the future.'
But evidentially Obama has. There is a lot more to work with in McCain.
'I'm counting on that, Bubba. I'd be disappointed if you didn't. '
Time is getting hard to come by on my end. Just FYI.
'You seem to believe that the American people will go along with them without objection. I do not share your pessimistic opinion of them. '
Been to LA or New York recently? Boston maybe? San Francisco or Seattle? These people are as much Americans as you and I are and many that I run in to believe that the problems created by socialism can be cured with more socialism. They have a lock on the schools and the media (and are working to completely stifle any opposition in the media.) they have immigrants coming in by the freight car load among many other advantages... they could have a nice long run. All I seem to have going on my side is reality.
'. If you can think of something better, other than John McCain leading a group of spineless boobs dominated by Democrats, let me know.'
Yeah, participate instead of complain. The opposition does.
' I certainly find no reassurance in Senator McCain's erratic voting pattern and attitude towards the members of his own party'
Members of his own party have earned his scorn in my opinion. His voting pattern, with a couple of exceptions, is not that problematic to me.
'. I do NOT for one minute believe that Obama would have a happy mid-term election period.'
Even if it was 'unhappy' you are going to have a long way to go before he is hamstrung.
'
You seem to think that we will find ourselves going through what we did after LBJ got elected. '
I think Obama will make the 'great society' look like Myanmar governmental hurricane relief.
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BobJun 1st, 2008 - 03:24:36
Will Hillary appeal the decision and extend the Drama all the way to Denver?
Part of me wants her to continue making a fool of herself; the other part wants her to just go away!
Hillary, the Queen of Spin and a Legend in Her Own Mind!
klintons.com
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