US News
Obama takes historic Democratic nomination over Clinton
Jun 4, 2008, 12:55 GMT
Democratic presidential candidate US Senator Barack Obama speaks to supporters at the Xcel Center in St . Paul, Minnesota, USA, 03 June 2008. Barack Obama clinched the Democratic presidential nomination after a five-month battle with Hillary Clinton, becoming the first African American to lead a major political party into a general election in the United States. EPA/CRAIG LASSIG
Washington - Barack Obama declared victory in the Democratic presidential nomination after a five-month battle with Hillary Clinton, becoming the first African-American to lead a major political party into a US general election.
Wednesday saw Obama shifting toward the November general election race against presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain.
Both major-party candidates are already weighing their choices for running mates, and speculation was rampant that Clinton might be angling to be Obama's vice presidential nominee.
Obama captured the majority of delegates needed to win the party's nod on the final day of primaries in the bitterly contested nomination battle with Clinton, who so far refused to concede defeat and said she has made 'no decisions' about her political future.
His victory was projected by US broadcast networks immediately after polls closed in South Dakota Tuesday night, which along with Montana held the last in the series of state-by-state contests that began with Iowa on January 3.
'Tonight, I can stand before you and say that I will be the Democratic nominee for president of the United States,' Obama told cheering supporters in St Paul, Minnesota. 'Tonight we mark the end of one historic journey with the beginning of another.'
Obama said he was convinced the Democratic Party would unite for the general elections and praised Clinton - who had hoped to become the first woman president - for a 'barrier-breaking campaign.'
'Our party and our country are better off because of her, and I am a better candidate for having had the honour to compete with Hillary Rodham Clinton,' he said.
The hard-fought campaign lasted longer than any pundits predicted at the outset, when Clinton was seen as the heir-apparent for the nomination, and ended with the former first lady scrounging for every last vote.
Each candidate gathered diehard supporters over the last year, many of whom have said they would be reluctant to vote for their candidates' intra-party rival in November.
The polarized attitudes of such voters now leave Obama with the task of reaching out to Clinton's supporters, lest they vote for the centre-right McCain, known for his appeal to moderates across party lines.
Obama began that task by trying to cast a positive light on the long primary campaign.
'There are those who say that this primary has somehow left us weaker and more divided. Well, I say, that because of this primary, there are millions of Americans who have cast their ballot for the very first time,' he said.
Clinton said only that she was 'congratulating Senator Obama and his supporters on the extraordinary race that they have run.'
'This has been a long campaign, and I will be making no decisions tonight,' Clinton said, drawing loud cheers from a defiant crowd of supporters in New York.
Clinton appeared to have one last victory to her name, taking South Dakota's primary. She led the state 55 per cent to 45 per cent with the vote fully counted.
But the victory would not be enough to stop Obama from passing the mark of 2,118 delegates required to win the nomination outright.
He also won in Montana, with 56 per cent of the vote to Clinton's 41 per cent with 99 per cent of precincts reporting.
Throughout Tuesday a handful of super delegates - party leaders and top activists who cast their votes independently of the state primaries - switched their allegiances to Obama, bringing him within 10 delegates of the clinching number before polls had even closed in South Dakota and Montana.
McCain, who will face Obama in November, on Tuesday declared 'Tonight, we can say with confidence the primary season is over, and the general election campaign has begun.'
He lost no time firing against Obama, taking him to task for statements that he would meet with leaders of nations like Iran and for his plans to rapidly withdraw US forces from Iraq.
'I have a few years on my opponent,' McCain, 71, said. 'So I am surprised that a young man has bought into so many failed ideas.'
'This is, indeed, a change election,' he added, echoing Obama's own campaign mantra. 'But the choice is between the right change and the wrong change - between going forward and going backward.'
McCain joined Obama in congratulating Clinton for her groundbreaking campaign.
As she ponders her next move, speculating was rampant early Wednesday about a possible bid for the vice presidential slot. CNN reported that Clinton had told New York lawmakers Tuesday that she would consider the number two spot if asked by Obama.
In a phone call after midnight, Obama congratulated Clinton on the South Dakota win and told her he would like to meet with her soon, CNN reported.
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Older Talkback
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An amazing, historic victory for Obama! To Clinton supporters, I have 3 words with which to hope to convince you to overcome your disappointment and support Obama in the general: 'Roe versus Wade'.
How would Obama deal with the 100 million christian radicals in the U.S. that have had a free rein to kill muslims in Iraq for 6 years, and support muslim killing and occupation? I mean, if he put a leash on them then there would be a lot of pent up aggressions.
There should be a law in the U.S.: Kill muslim, go to jail; even if it is on foreign soil. Fortunately there are such laws in the U.S. and if christians did what they do in the M.E., but in the U.S., then those christians would go to jail.
If Obama does become president and he ends the war then there are going to be a lot of angry christians with no way to vent their frustration.
since Obama is the nominee, I'm just going to have to do a write-in. I could not, with a clear conscience, vote for somebody with Obama's character.
is stale lance.
...muslims kill more muslims than any other ethnic group.
What do you mean, 'his charecter', are you refering to the statements of his pastor or his innability to bowl??? I'm confused. I personaly haven't noticed any glaring personality problems, if I'm missing somthing, please tell me.
'An amazing, historic victory for Obama! To Clinton supporters, I have 3 words with which to hope to convince you to overcome your disappointment and support Obama in the general: 'Roe versus Wade'.'
I hate to burst your bubble, but McCain is probably less likely to addres abortion than Barack Obama!
You see, Roe V. Wade is actually a very conservative decision. If you bother to read it you will see that it says:
1) you cannot deny a woman an abortion for no reason
2) having said that the STATES are empowered to regulate abortion.
This is why conservative judges have upheld it for so long: THEY do not want to hear every abortion case that comes up for the next 100 years! This caps their involvement.
No, Angela, you've been fooled by the left wing Soros/womens study group cabal. Real conservatives like it just the way it is.
In fact, it's even worse than you think! If and when a state like South Dakota decides to actually regulate abortion, restrict it's application and it is challenged in court, the Supreme court will be trapped into one of two moves:
1) they either HAVE to back Roe and LET the states regulate it, no matter the terms, or:
2) unravel Roe V. Wade and then contend with the avalanche of cases.
what do you think these work-averse lawyers will do???
Yeah, Me too.
I'm afraid you need a much better reason to pimp Obama and think hard, because you don't have a lot of time...
Shut up!
I`m dreaming of a WHITE Christmas
Just like the one`s we used to know
Where the snow flakes glisten
And people listen
To hear Obama screaming home.
'What do you mean, 'his charecter'[sic], are you refering[sic] to the statements of his pastor or his innability[sic] to bowl??? I'm confused. I personaly[sic] haven't noticed any glaring personality problems, if I'm missing somthing[sic] please tell me.'
Bribe taking from Tony Rezko in exchange for help in stealing millions of dollars in tax payer money.
Help in getting his 'statement' making pastors millions of tax payer dollars in exchange for their support from the pulpit. (Which is a violation of federal law on their behalf)
Simply voting 'present' on any issue of controversy in his state senate career showing cowardice. On and on and on here... That's not even getting t his troubling statements or associations.
Here's what's known so far:
The Michelle Obama Rant Tape was filmed between June 26th - July 1st 2004 in Chicago, IL at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Conference at Trinity United Church: specifically the Women's Event.
Michelle Obama appeared as a panelist alongside Mrs. Khadijah Farrakhan and Mrs. James Meeks.
[...]
For about 30 minutes, Michelle Obama launched into a rant about the evils of America, and how America is to blame for the problems of Africa. Michelle personally blamed President Clinton for the deaths of millions of Africans and said America is responsible for the genocide of the Tutsis and other ethnic groups. She then launched into an attack on 'whitey', and talked about solutions to black on black crime in the realm of diverting those actions onto white America. Her rant was fueled by the crowd: they reacted strongly to what she said, so she got more passionate and enraged, and that's when she completely loses it and says things that have made the mouths drop of everyone who's seen this.
This outburst happened just one month before the 2004 Democratic Convention, when Barack Obama delivered the keynote address.
Oooh ,I didn't know Michelle was running for president,thought it was Obama,...
Nothing to say about his grandma while we're at it ?
Take notice that anybody trying to smear a candidate by refering to his wife,children,riends,pastors must be realy desperate to have to be satisfied with so little...
...we like our White House occupants to be Americans, and not just in name. You, not having any nationalistic pride in any nation, may just not be able to comprehend this.
'nationalistic pride' is benign, until it results in killing people and taking over other nations and countries. Then it becomes fascist pride. What Bush has is fascism and it appears that McCain has the disease too. The question is: Can Obama squash the fascism of 100 million radical christians and get them to back off killing muslims.
What radical Christians? Christians are pacifists, Lance.
Also, Muslims kill more muslims than any other group.
'What radical Christians? Christians are pacifists, Lance.'
Oh, excuse me. I thought the U.S. military had christians in it. They must all be pagans or something, or they use rifles and missiles as magic sticks to make food for people.
yeah, right.
well, Lance, now you have learned something:
Pacifists are not titally against fighting: They will fight against tyranny, or to protect the innocent, or keep themselves from harm.
'Oh, excuse me. I thought the U.S. military had christians[sic] in it. '
You are just not all that bright are you?
1) The murders in Iraq have been Iraqis murdering each other.
2) The people in the US military are not fighting to spread Christianity, they are fighting (muslims) to spread freedom and democracy.
3) When Christians 'kill' it is in spite of their religion. When islamists kill they can point to the words of Mohammad as justification for murdering anyone who isn't a muslum.
All you Obama supporters out there with elderly parents-Obama wants to raise the inheritance (death ) tax to 50%. Now if you're really good with handing half of Mamas money over to Uncle Sam, by all means vote Obama.
Good point Kathy. Also, he wants to:
Raise capital gains taxes
personal income tax
FICA tax
has no Social Security bailout plan
tariffs on steel
tariffs on Cotton
deny unhindered health insurance sales across state lines to individuals.
Antoin 'Tony' Rezko, 52, showed no emotion as the jury delivered a mixed verdict that found him guilty of scheming with the government's star witness to get kickbacks out of money management firms wanting state business, but acquitted him of charges that included attempted extortion.
The jury delivered its guilty verdict on 16 of 24 counts after a nine-week trial.
Rezko has known Obama since he entered politics and was involved in a 2005 real estate deal with the Democratic presidential candidate, although testimony barely touched on their relationship. Most of the focus was on shakedowns prosecutors said Rezko arranged when he was a top adviser to Blagojevich.
Neither Blagojevich nor Obama has been accused of wrongdoing.
Rezko's defense attorneys maintained that the government had little evidence tying him to corruption and that the star witness, admitted political fixer Stuart P. Levine, was not credible because years of drug use had damaged his memory.
Capital gains tax-McCain-15%-Obama 28%-Clinton 24%. So...sell your house to keep the profit, hand over 28%. Dividend tax-McCain 15%-Obama 39.5%-Clinton 39.6%. Anyone here have money invested in the stock market, IRAS, life insurance, etc. etc.? People are so incredibly jealous and petty that they hear 'tax the rich' and they say Yea! Yeah! What most don't realize is that THEY are the rich in Obama's handbook. Has anyone pinned this guy down on his definition of 'rich'? Seems like an elemental question to me. So, now I'll leave and avoid the SP4 'sock monkey' posts- the 'SP4 girlfriend' posts not to mention the 10 year old playground stupid,crass,vulgarity posts that you liberal idiots are so very fond of.
'Pacifists are not titally against fighting'
Definition from Webster Dictionary:
-----------
pacifism
The belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.
The refusal to participate in war or military service because of such a belief.
-----------
christians kill to force their form of government on others and to force what they see as freedom onto others no matter what those other people want.
christians (except for Quakers) are hardly pacifists.
'christians[sic] kill to force their form of government on others and to force what they see as freedom onto others no matter what those other people want.'
If the USA was a 'Christian' nation you would have had your terrorist apologist rear end deported a long time ago.
The secular government of the USA sent it's multi faith military to Iraq not in the name of spreading Christianity but to get rid of a threat to the USA and free the Iraqi people from someone who put them in plastic shredders.
The ONLY ones who are murdering other people in the name of religion are the islamists, they are doing that because their prophet told them to do so, in between cursing playgrounds for little girls that is.
It's not just the Obamanation that has made me leave my party of 25 odd years.
It's Nancy Pelosi saying immediately on being named Speaker that Impeachment was off the table. Who cares about the constitution?
It's about the Democrats not having the guts to stand up to Bush on war funding
It's about Nancy Pelosi picking Hoyer over Murtha
It's about the Democrats caving on the Patriot Act
It's about the Democrats caving on the NSA spying on us
It's about the Democrats not filibustering Alito (Thanks Senator Obama!)
It's about Harry Reid
It's about we put them in power and the only thing they accomplished is a raise in Minimum Wage. While being a good thing, indeed, that's it?
I realize that in the Senate they didn't have a majority but they used that as an excuse. Fight the good fight and you'll earn my respect. At least try.
Now we have a nominee who reflects Reid and Pelosi's values. Actually, I should say they have a nominee who reflects their values.
I'm out.
Nonetheless, the U.S. military, its commanders and backers are nearly 100% christian. They have the biggest weapons cache in history, have started the biggest war in terms of dollar amount and equivalent tonnage of TNT. Their policy is preemptive war (unprovoked war).
They are christians killing other people on a mass scale. There is no way around the raw fact that they are christians killing muslims.
The U.S. government is hardly secular. It is funny how christians say the U.S. is founded on christian values, but when talking of killing people the same people say the government is a secular one. The U.S. government is nearly 100% christian. Remember: It is not freedom FROM religion, it is freedom OF religion, and the predominant religion is christian; so it translates to: freedom OF christianity.
There is no way around the fact that a predominantly christian nation is killing people in a predominantly muslim nation.
... now, if christians want to stop killing people then maybe the future can be different, but the past is established. Anytime christians are ready to stop killing, then I am ready to state that they stop killing.
Just to be clear:
Your arguments that christians are pacifists or some such thing would be a lot more believable if christians did not have a long history of killing people and if christians were not guiding laser guided missiles to targets with people.
With at least one exception: Quakers (and similar christian minorities). Got to respect those Quakers, now they are christians with moral values and integrity.
I wonder if Obama is one of the mind-bending christian pacifists or if he is Quaker. A violent person that thinks they are a pacifist is more dangerous than an violent person that knows they are violent. Mainly because the first is delusional while the second can be trusted to know reality.
I doubt it very much if you were ever a part of 'the party'. You are talking all the Republican't talking points. Vote for George Bush III, you deserve what you get.
...I've heard all this before. People assigning blame to the USA for death.
Well, fine, we accept the fact that we've off'ed some folks, if for, one second, you'll acknowledge that someof them had it coming.
We had to throw off our colonial oppressors
we killed them
but we made up with them right away, by historical standards
we had a civil war, which was, undeniably, about slavery
we killed them
but we freed the slaves
we went to Europe to stop a facist wave
we killed some folks
but we stopped the bad guys
we were attacked in 1941, our people were captured, tortured, etc. we went to war
we killed some folks
but we freed millions of people and now those mations are our closest allies. can anyone imagine europe and asia now, if we had stayed out of wwII???? not a pretty picture.
we went to se asia to help keep it free. we won all the battles
we killed some folks
they had it copming
when we left, after winning all the battles, but left anyways
2 million were executed, went through ethnic cleansing, or were imprisioned
we tried
not a pretty picture
Now, a whole bunch of people are held hostage by the scum of humanity i.e. Islamic Facism.
we killed some folks
now, they have a chance
Apply your own sense of right and wrong to history Lance. That, of course does not make us wrong.
don't dis your admirers!
'Nonetheless, the U.S. military, its commanders and backers are nearly 100% christian[sic].'
You are free to volunteer, not that you would.
'They are christians[sic] killing other people on a mass scale. '
Where? If it is Iraq that you are referring to the people killing each other are muslims.
'The U.S. government is hardly secular.'
Guess you never heard of the establishment clause, idiot.
' Remember: It is not freedom FROM religion, it is freedom OF religion, '
You are free to be an atheist in the US government. Plenty of Jews in there as well.
' Remember: It is not freedom FROM religion, it is freedom OF religion, and the predominant religion is christian[sic]; so it translates to: freedom OF christianity[sic]
So does that mean we can haul Keith Ellison's incompetent ass out of the government?
'There is no way around the fact that a predominantly christian[sic] nation is killing people in a predominantly muslim nation.'
Yes there is, it is predominately muslims killing muslims.
'Anytime christians[sic] are ready to stop killing, then I am ready to state that they stop killing'
I don't care what you state, you are simply blaming everyone else for the savagery committed in the name of mohammads fever dreams.
Once again, there have been islamist terrorist attacks with death resulting in India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Kabardino-Balkaria and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Argentina and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and every where else islamist savages bump in to humans.
All of those attacks have been done in the NAME of islam. When is the last time you saw a Christian fill a school gym full of children and set off bombs? You haven't. When is the last time you saw a Christian blow himself to pieces to murder others in the name of Jesus? They do not. When is the last time you saw a Christian flying an aircraft full of people in to a building full of people? It hasn't happened.
When was the last day when someone wasn't murdered in the name of Islam?
To SP4:you did nothing at all;you are stealing the noble deeds of other americans to hide your own extremist views.You have not freed slaves,you have not fought in any war,you did absolutly nothing,and you have no right to speak for the people that did so.
In fact you are claiming that your own personal points of view,which are shared by very little part of the USA,the neocon republiicans,stand for the values of the USA .But you defend torture,kidnapping,war based on lies,etc,etc,the very same crmies your ancestors fought against,is that clear enough for you ?
And what is more:your ancestors,the likes of Benjamin Franklin,Thoreau,Lincoln,Jesse Jackson and others always conducted political campaigns based on rational arguments,not on the mudslinging that you co,ntinuously practise .Democracy has to be eazned,which means one has to educate one self to it,in order to rationaly discus the measures that need to be taken to improve the lives of your fellow countrymen.You never do any of that,you use tar and feathers to smear what obviously you don't understand .
'A violent person that thinks they are a pacifist is more dangerous than an violent person that knows they are violent. Mainly because the first is delusional while the second can be trusted to know reality.'
You have a hell of a nerve lecturing about reality. Here is reality:
www.liveleak.com/view?i=44a_1176709269
www.liveleak.com/view?i=271_1189517695
www.liveleak.com/view?i=518_1190245078
Go ahead lance, register and watch it. People being stoned to death, lynched or otherwise murdered for not sufficiently adhering to the words of the prophet. (pb&j upon him)
After you get through your little attempt at trying to draw some kind of moral equivalence between a theology that preaches:
'Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.' -Matthew 5:9
'Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.' -Psalm 34:14
and a theology that preaches:
'Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme' - Sura 8:39
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
Nope, people either create or recreate God in their own image. Mohammad's God was a psychopath.
You stink! BTW where is belgium anyway?
Under my feet,why ?
Do you need to know that in order to discuss in a civilized manner topics such as democracy.
Hidden Imam has a problem with understanding the very easiest bits of rational thinking.All the nice principles he declares valid for Islam can be just as well focused on hebrew religion ,catholicism,evangelism or any other religion with the old testament as the core.Reading that bronze age textbook reveals it is ok for the jewish people to rob the land of other nation,smash the children with their heads against the rocks ,butcher everyone that they deem to be an enemy of their god .Does any of that stuff still has to be taken seriously in these modern times in which we know old religious textbooks to have been written by human people,containing all the archetypes of human flaws,and the preposterous errors of ancient science stating the sun revolves around the earth,the earth and universe were created in 6 days .Islam is a similar religion,with equal distorted vision,not wors,not better .And exactly like most followers of christianism have dispelled the inhumane rules of the bible,most followers of islam practise a more humane version .Hidden Islam is consistently posting his fear and paranoia towards a large part of world population that is exactly like any other .Paranoia is a bad councillor hidden islam,o educate yoursel to the modern world,ou badly need to get connected to reality,not to the figments of paranoia you want so much to share with us .Start with a good book on the middle east written by robert fisk...
Robert Fisk is at best a pedejo and at worst a nihilist.
www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/robert-fisk-even-i-question-the-truth-a bout-911-462904.html
The heat of combustion value of kerosene is about 18,500 btu/lb. The heat of combustion of lump charcoal and coal, either of which can be used to smelt iron and make steel, is about 13,000 btu/lb. Once those buildings were filled with burning kerosene and and the other combustibles inside them were ignited they were a pretty good equivalent of blast furnaces.
Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING, could have stopped those buildings from collapsing after they were struck Boeing 757's loaded with fuel. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is either just stirring shit or is a complete ignoramus.
We have no choice but to give Al-Qaeda credit for doing their homework for this op.
quote R. Fisk:
I am not a conspiracy theorist. Spare me the ravers. Spare me the plots. But like everyone else, I would like to know the full story of 9/11, not least because it was the trigger for the whole lunatic, meretricious 'war on terror' which has led us to disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan and in much of the Middle East. Bush's happily departed adviser Karl Rove once said that 'we're an empire now we create our own reality'. True? At least tell us. It would stop people kicking over chairs.unquote
What is wrong with that ,noharnass ?Is it a sin to question Bush and the pentagon,they've been caught lying before,on numerous occasions .fisk only wants answers on a few questions,will you perhaps give them,then please feel free to do so...
Dreaming of a White Christmas ?? Hope you don't have kids, if you do they will be going to Iraq and Iran. McCain is secretly making preparations for the return of 'The Draft'. More and more is coming out in regards to him being the Song Bird of Hanoi while he was a P O W, check that out on the net. A lot of Vietnam Vets totally hate this man.........
And so it is...............
'All the nice principles he declares valid for Islam can be just as well focused on hebrew religion ,catholicism,evangelism or any other religion with the old testament as the core.'
Where is the equivalent in the bible?
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. (Koran 98:1-8)
A Muslim may not be killed if he kills a non-Muslim (Al Bukhari Vol 9:50)
Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. (Surat At-Taubah 9:29)
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.
Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat. (Koran 69:30-37)
Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed... fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme' (Sura 2:91-93).
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.' [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah; and these are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide. 3.116
Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued.
Surat At-Taubah 9:29
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. (Koran 2: 98)
Allah plots against unbelievers. (The Morning Star: 15)
Allah has cursed them (the Jews) on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe. (Koran 2:88)
There is disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers. (Koran 2:90)
Mohammed said, The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130)
[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan (Satan). Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.
[4:101] ...surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.
[4:102] ...surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
[48:29] Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves
[4.92] Anyone who kills a believer intentionally will have his reward in hell, to remain there. God will be angry with him and curse him, and prepare awful torment for him. (Only applies to believers)
[9.73] O Prophet! strive hard [make war] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
I could go on and on here.
'Does any of that stuff still has to be taken seriously in these modern times'
Evidentially so.
'Islam is a similar religion,with equal distorted vision,not wors,not better
You don't know what you are talking about, as usual.
' educate yoursel to the modern world'
Educate me tonny, persuade me that Islam is not a religion that allows for and promotes violence.
'Start with a good book on the middle east written by robert fisk...'
Fisk is a propagandist who appeals to folks like you, people who will set aside common sense and the inconvenient images seen through your own eyes for the sake of of YOUR religion: sanctimonious, mentally masturbatory political correctness.
'ut like everyone else, I would like to know the full story of 9/11,'
islamist pigs flew aircraft full of scared human beings into buildings full of people. There you have it.
'Bush's happily departed adviser Karl Rove once said that 'we're an empire now we create our own reality'. '
No he did not.
'fisk only wants answers on a few questions'
No he does not. He wants to obfuscate and apologize for islamist terrorists.
You don't mind that because all you can see is your resentment for Bush. Love or hate Bush all you want, but making excuses for these savage monsters pretty much makes you a piece of s**t.
Nationalization of Natural Resources in North America, (OIL)
It is now time for the current US Congress to draft a law that will authorize the use of the Armed Forces of America to seize control of all Oil reserves, assets, and property within the borders of the United States of America. Americans are suffering financially because of the profiteering that is being sanctioned by the current Congress. The very survival of America will depend on the controls and relief to the consumer. By controlling the oil and refining process, the final price to the consumer can drop back to levels in the two digit margin, i.e. 39 cents. It is now a matter of National Security that this happen within a very short period of time, or every American will suffer the financial burden of out of control price per gallon for fuel, thus driving up every consumer product and service beyond the affordable means of an average income American.
The American Republic will recommend that the current US Congress and President be held accountable for this 'crime against Humanity' as well as numerous others.
It is time to fire the US Congress and President, now and in November, 2008. A new Republic for North America is underway.
We are a Legion of many, who will live a life of peace, and have respect for all living things, while having considerations for those who are different, and look for ways to truly accommodate those who are slow in understanding.
We support the poor, helpless, and defenseless people. We support the freedom of Women, we support the sane treatment of animals and the environment, we support the freedom of religion and expression. We do not support ignorance, period.
We are a growing nation of people that encourage anyone or Nation anywhere to become part of the New American Republic!
NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM
Judah Ben-Hur, Sui Juris
Ambassador
The American Republic
Diplomatic Mission: North America
Quoting Robert Fisk, 'Even I question the truth of 9/11'
'But here we go. I am increasingly troubled at the inconsistencies in the official narrative of 9/11. It's not just the obvious non sequiturs: where are the aircraft parts (engines, etc) from the attack on the Pentagon?'
Burned or melted and mixed into the rubble. Most of the engine parts caught on fire and burned. I you review the tapes, you can see one of the main rotor hubs burning on one corner of the first tower collapse (this building was the second one struck). Aircraft engine parts are made of magnesium and titanium alloys, both of which WILL burn under the right conditions. The conditions in those two buildings were very similar to the condition found inside a blast furnace being use to produce pig iron.
RE:'Why have the officials involved in the United 93 flight (which crashed in Pennsylvania) been muzzled?'
They have not been muzzled. Here Lord Moosetwit lies by asking a question.
RE:'Why did flight 93's debris spread over miles when it was supposed to have crashed in one piece in a field?'
The fuselage did exactly that. Understand something here, Lord Moosetwit, jet aircraft are made to go fast. When you point the noise of one at the ground while under power, it goes VERY FAST and it wastes no time going VERY FAST. When an airplane flies faster than the speed it was designed for, it begins to vibrate. The vibration becomes so bad that it very quickly shakes itself to pieces. The very first pieces to rip away are the pieces that vibrate the most, the wings, elevators and rudder. Those pieces flutter around like pieces of cardboard as they fall and are usually scattered over a wide area as they descend.
RE'I am talking about scientific issues.'
Lord Moosetwit wouldn't know what a scientific issues was if it bit hom on the ankle. There is little science involved here, anyway. Mostly it is just mundane technology.
RE:'If it is true, for example, that kerosene burns at 820C under optimum conditions, how come the steel beams of the twin towers whose melting point is supposed to be about 1,480C would snap through at the same time? (They collapsed in 8.1 and 10 seconds.)'
The LOWER heat of combustion of kerosene (jet fuel)is around 18,500 btu/kg (43.1MJ/KG). The heat of combustion of coal or charcoal, either of which may be used to smelt iron or refine steel is about 13,000 btu/lb. Steel rapidly loses tensile strength as its temperature rises above 343 degrees Celsius (650 degrees F). Conditions inside the two towers of the World Trade Center were only slightly cooler than the internal temperature of a blast furnace in operation.
The North Tower remained standing for fifty-six minutes. It had been struck lower down than the South Tower which stood for 102 minutes. The great wonder here is not that the buildings collapsed, but that they remained standing for as long as they did.
RE:'What about the third tower the so-called World Trade Centre Building 7... final report on the grounds that it could be 'fraudulent or deceptive'.'
WTC7 was stuffed chock-a-block with debris from the collapse of WTC1 and WTC2. Again, the great wonder here is not why WTC7 collapsed, but that so many of the other buildings making up the World Trade Center somehow remained standing. They are a testament to the care and ingenuity exercised by their architects and engineers. All of them were packed full of debris, that entered them in a condition greatly similar to a pyroclastic flow, up to at least the fourth floor and higher.
Robert 'Lord Moosetwit' Fisk is not just a pendejo, he is an evil little man who sympathizes with fanatic Muslims. He is both dishonest and disingenuous and hates both the United States and the United Kingdom.
The only people I can imagine wanting to read this little monster's screed are those who sympathize with Muslim fanaticism and those who MUST read his drivel as part of their analysis chores. The latter must be an exceedingly tedious job.
The problems that arise from fires in steel frame buildings have been known about for quite some time. Here's a short read for you, Tonny. I suggest you send a copy of it to your buddy, Robert Fisk. Then he will not have an excuse for his bullshit.
//books.google.com/books?id=l9MOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA4&dq=fireproofing+date:18 00-1930&lr=&as_brr=1#PPP9,M1
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James ThomasJun 4th, 2008 - 14:43:35
This is a remarkable achievement for Obama to have clinched the nomination for president. It is unfortunate that his opponent was not able to recognize this last night. More important, Clinton's statement that she won more popular votes is disputed by many, but will be used by her loyal followers to place an asterisk beside his remarkable achievement. In this sense Clinton is the spoiler who, despite her claims to the contrary, appears to desire personal victory at the expense of her party and the causes she claims to support.
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