US News
Obama and Clinton meet in Washington DC (Roundup)
Jun 6, 2008, 5:33 GMT
On the Web
Barack Obama - View Barack Obama Pictures - Barack Obama News
|
|
|
|
|
Hillary Clinton - View Hillary Clinton Pictures - Hillary Clinton News
|
|
|
|
|
Similar articles
- Romney lags behind a surging Santorum in US polls
- Romney tallies narrow victory in Maine
- Romney wins Maine caucus
- Romney clinches support from die-hard conservatives in US confab
- Romney: Future US president or wolf in sheep's clothing?
Latest Headlines in US
- 1. Actress Susan Sarandon funds table tennis for New York schools
- 2. Romney lags behind a surging Santorum in US polls
- 3. Whitney Houston to be buried Saturday in small family funeral
- 4. Obama, Democrats get Republican raspberries for Valentine's Day
- 5. Obama calls for quick passage of payroll tax holiday extension
Older Talkback
page: 1
From the look of it this is going to be a practical political matter, the real bone of contention will be Bill Clinton and his role. The SOB is a walking disaster and what Hillary has done in the last six months during this so called flawed election is not a pretty picture of being in the executive branch of the Government. Nevertheless, Reagan and Bush One was never a match made in Heaven. But then conservative republicans are a different bunch in their indifference. One would just wish that the President has a legal right to fire the Vice President. Can Hillary the Shrew be tamed ?
I see sexsim still rears its ugly head. Hillary the shrew?? yeah whatever. She owes Obama nothing and it would serve dnc right if she did nothing to help Obama. I am so tired of people calling Hillary ambitous and power hungry. Yeah she did want to be president, but she was earning through hard knocks us senator since 2001 barack Obama was us senator for 18 months said he wouldnt run and did it any way now how power hungry and ambitous is that>
The primary is over....It's time to get rid of the GOP before we're either all in uniform or standing in a bread line.
Since Obama is half European American - why is he described as African American? Isn't this a bit racist and outdated? Not to mention - FALSE?
Hasn't the public been played on - YET AGAIN - by the media and the big political machine? A: YES.
Since Obama is half European American - why is he described as African American? Isn't this a bit racist and outdated? Not to mention - FALSE?
Hasn't the public been played on - YET AGAIN - by the media and the big political machine? A: YES.
Hillary, Obama, McCain. Hillary should stay in the race. Nader should be on the ticket. Obama....whatever. McCain....cant even take care of his own state, or better phrased doesnt care about his own state. Look at what is going on in Arizona, public corruption across the board. Arpios in trouble, Napalatino is complacent, Thomas is struggling with the Bar....what the heck is going on in Arizona. Cowboy Justice? Stumbled upon youtube videos showing such problems, which leads to www.azjusticenews.org...... someone should check that out seems to be the only place to hear real news even if its one little corner of the world. This is what happens in Arizona, I know of others who have had the same crap happen to them, and its all real. Same players, same agencies, same officials and it all leads back to McCain, if not directly indirectly by not actually giving a crap about his own state and its citizens. The best thing he could do is integrally help elevate and empower his own state before he takes on the Country.
Rachel, you're right. There is sexism and unjustly so. You're also right that Senator Clinton doesn't owe Senator Obama anything, but if what she's been saying all during her campaign is true (and I believe it is) that the reason she was running was for THE COUNTRY then she owes it to the country to do everything possible to help Senator Obama get elected in November. The Country will be far better off with Senator Obama in The White House than with Senator McCain in The White House.
Senator Clinton and Senator Obama are not so very far apart on policy issues. I think they can work out any differences and be united. I hope all of Senator Clinton's supporters will help to make a needed change in November.
By the way, I hope Senator Obama doesn't pick Senator Clinton as his Vice-Presidential candidate, not because I don't think she'd make a good Vice-President, but because I think she could serve a more important role either on The Supreme Court or in the Cabinet.
I hope the Country can unite to make changes domestically and internationally.
JDaniel, Senator Obama's Mother was from Kansas and his Father was from Kenya, so where do you get that he's half European? Even if you were right, which you're not, what difference does it make if he is 100% caucasian, 100% African-American or 1/2 European? He just happens to be 1/2 caucasian and 1/2 African-American.
Sure, Hillary causes me to feel a little nauseous whenever her image surfaces in my consciousness, but as for the calls for her to end the contest once and for all, please remember that she has 'loaned' the campaign of her 'own' money. When she concedes, there is no more Hillary Campaign, and thus no more financing and thus any of her 'loans' to the campaign that have not yet been repaid will remain unrepaid forever. She is just trying to recoup her losses by dragging out her 'campaign' until all of the contributions dry up. Selfish and mercenary? Yes, but anyone who would expect otherwise from her is a fool.
Leah. . .'European American'. . .as opposed to 'African American'. Europe is traditionally considered a continent, as is Africa. I think the point is that to use an individual American's distant African heritage as his or her defining characteristic is as ridiculous as to do the same with someone of European ancestry...
When we finally look at another American and see, first and formost, another American, and then as a minor point we notice that they are male, female, or have African, European, or Asian ancestry, or they are gay, or handicapped or whatever. . .then we will be so much better off than we are now. I think that this is part of what Obama stands for. Sure, Hillary is also fighting to end SOME discrimination, though it seems apparent that her opposition to prejudice is much more narrowly focused than Obama's. While I am sure that Hillary would work tirelessly to elevate the status of women and free them from sexism, I am confident that Obama will fight to liberate all of us from all of the negative 'isms'. Sure, in absolute terms he will ultimately fail (as would Hillary, BTW) but the fight would leave us greatly matured and better off. Considering the fact that their platforms are so similar otherwise, it seems a no-brainer to back Obama at this point (unless you want to tackle sexism while leaving racism, agism, and a host of other isms in place. . .in which case you are actually a Republican, whether you know it or not, and you've been supporting the wrong candidate all along).
Anyway, the point was well made. Obama is as much 'European American' as he is 'African American'. Why is it that the African American part trumps the European American part for so many people? This is a serious disease and our society needs to confront it before we can better our society for ANY of us... including for women. We need to evolve our ethics to where we, as a nation, view any racist, sexist, homophobe, or bigot of any type with the same contempt and disgust that many of us regard child rapists. If our goal is to purge the ignorance, intolerance, hate and bias from our society, then nothing less will succeed.
Obama will be challenged to unify the Democratic Party. His biggest obstacle will be die-hard, Hillary or nothing, fanatics. Perhaps their numbers are less than their noise would imply?
Hillary as VP may appease some of her ardent followers; however, it would hurt him in the long run. The Clintons have had ample time at the podium, time to move-on.
Hillary, the Queen of Spin and a Legend in Her Own Mind!
klintons.com
Barack Obama on close friend and mentor Rev. Jeremiah Wright, April 29, 2008:
The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate, and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church.
Barack Obama on close friend Fr. Pfleger, May 29, 2008:
As I have traveled this country, I've been impressed not by what divides us, but by all that that unites us. That is why I am deeply disappointed in Father Pfleger's divisive, backward-looking rhetoric, which doesn't reflect the country I see or the desire of people across America to come together in common cause.
Barack Obama on his church of 20 years, May 31, 2008:
I am not denouncing the church. I am not interested in people who want me to denounce the church because it's not a church worthy of denouncing. And so if they’ve seen caricatures of the church and accept those caricatures despite my insistence that's not what the church is about, then there's not much I can do about it.
Barack Obama on close friend Tony Rezko, June 4, 2008:
I’m saddened by today’s verdict. This isn’t the Tony Rezko I knew, but now he has been convicted by a jury on multiple charges that once again shine a spotlight on the need for reform. I encourage the General Assembly to take whatever steps are necessary to prevent these kinds of abuses in the future.
When do we get the 'saddened and disappointed' speech about his wife. Louis Farahkahn and the weather underground terrorists that he is a long time associate of?
I`m really a decent chap and thank you for your cool and composed reply to my outrage at you about D-Day.
What pissed me off, was your 'just a memory lane' job, which I thought was despicable, especially coming from an American.
I feel gutted at the sacrifice of all those young American lives in Normandy, especially on Omaha and re-live the ordeal EVERY 6th June. They NEVER had the benefit of a life.
Never miss, starting from 05.00 and lasting the whole day.
IT IS NOT JUST A MEMORY - IT IS A VERY SAD PERSONAL TRIBUTE OF UTTER RESPECT TO THE GUYS WHO DIED FOR ME.
Millions of people commemorate Jesus Christ who died over 2000 years ago,
bugger me ESS PEE they all go to church EVERY Sunday, so what makes the sacrifices made on D-day any different ?
What makes some mythical person of over 2000 years vintage SO much more important ? HE never saved us from Nazi oppression, these dead soldiers did, in fact HE never saved anybody - the graveyards are FULL of his devoted followers.
As for my other comments, they stay. The only feeling I have for my 'fellow humans' is 1) if they decent friendly people and are grateful for help - love `em, and 2) if they are not, sod `em. AND Africa falls into category 2.
I have not got a gnat`s kneecap of concern or feeling for the whole damned African continent of human scum, except for the precious and invaluable wild life. which I may add, these savages do their best to exterminate.
Vote for the HONEST leftist. Vote Obama!
Change!
The Man they call Change!
Oh, He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Chicago
the man they call Change.
Our Barak saw the workers' backs breakin'.
He saw the workers' lament.
And he saw the Management takin'
every dollar and leavin' five cents.
So he said: 'You can't do that to my people.'
said 'You can't crush them under your heel.'
So he strapped on his hat
and in 5 seconds flat
stole everythin' the Yanks had to steal.
Oh, He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Chicago
the man they call Change.
Now here is what separates heroes
from common folk like you and I.
The man they call Change
he turned 'round his plane
and let that money hit sky.
He dropped it onto our houses
he dropped it into our yards.
The man they called Change
he stole away our pain
and headed out for the stars!
(Here we go!)
He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and he gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Chicago
the man they call Change...
I`m really a decent chap and thank you for your cool and composed reply to my outrage at you about D-Day.
What pissed me off, was your 'just a memory lane' job, which I thought was despicable, especially coming from an American.
I feel gutted at the sacrifice of all those young American lives in Normandy, especially on Omaha and re-live the ordeal EVERY 6th June. They NEVER had the benefit of a life.
sp4- like I said, we have a day for commemorating this:Memorial day. The rest of the days, we try to live them.
Never miss, starting from 05.00 and lasting the whole day.
sp4 - ???
IT IS NOT JUST A MEMORY - IT IS A VERY SAD PERSONAL TRIBUTE OF UTTER RESPECT TO THE GUYS WHO DIED FOR ME.
sp4 - you need to go see someone, and learn how to integrate your feelings into your every-day existence.
Millions of people commemorate Jesus Christ who died over 2000 years ago,
bugger me ESS PEE they all go to church EVERY Sunday, so what makes the sacrifices made on D-day any different ?
sp4 - Mass is a celebration and re-affirmation of your faith. Like D-Day, catholics only celebrate Jesus's death for a single day...
What makes some mythical person of over 2000 years vintage SO much more important ? HE never saved us from Nazi oppression, these dead soldiers did, in fact HE never saved anybody - the graveyards are FULL of his devoted followers.
sp4 - he only tried to save us from ourselves....the other part is, he was a victim of Roman/Jewish politics of the day. Try not to draw wide conclusions from limited knowledge.
As for my other comments, they stay. The only feeling I have for my 'fellow humans' is 1) if they decent friendly people and are grateful for help - love `em, and 2) if they are not, sod `em. AND Africa falls into category 2.
sp4 - you need to go study the word 'objectivity'
I have not got a gnat`s kneecap of concern or feeling for the whole damned African continent of human scum, except for the precious and invaluable wild life. which I may add, these savages do their best to exterminate.
sp4 - If you had to eat and feed your family, you'd kill an endangered species faster than anyone. Again, an absolutist perspective coupled with a half-empty glass view of life is pretty boring.
Obama.............
Obama will 'NOT' pick his running mate !! James A. Johnson, Kissinger[wanted for war crimes for his Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos operations and soon in Iraq], and David Rockefeller will decide his running mate. Obama has deep ties with the Bilderbergers [New World Order]. This has been on the net for the past week, odd why mainstream press will not print the story....................One thing for sure more, wars.
McCain, 'THE SONGBIRD OF HANOI' still has not allowed excess to POW records. He has not answered any questions in regards to what he did while he was a POW. But his father a Navel Admiral did docter up his fitness reports to put some medals on him to make Little McCain look good and to gain some respect. No wonder so many Vets hate this guy.........
And so it is......................
Barack Hussein says he'd be glad to have Billy Bubba campaign for him.
That's great news for Conservatives! The only thing better would be the 'Dream Ticket'!
'McCain, 'THE SONGBIRD OF HANOI' still has not allowed excess to POW records. '
That is a lie and you are an asshole. He has opened his Navy record and his 'POW' records are held by the North Vietnamese. Indeed, even those have been turned over when the dirty DNC sent over someone to get copies during the 2000 election.
'He has not answered any questions in regards to what he did while he was a POW.'
He wrote a book about it you disgusting, contemptible, cowardly moron.
'No wonder so many Vets hate this guy.........'
How would you know? It just so happens you are dead wrong.
'And so it is......................'
You are a lying idiot.
So - another secret back room meeting where a deal is made -Now that's change we can live with.
check out the Constitution Party
Vote for the HONEST leftist. Vote Obama.
as bush's chief ass kisser sp4 will never give up
who do we vote for obama lyes mcbush lyes so who in hell do we put office?
people don't like obama because he's black and mccain is bush's titty sucker...so i say lets go 3rd world and piss on everyone..
Yep, here we go again. Here they are, trying to slime MCCain
Go Ahead
In fact, make SURE you do.
This may have worked on Bush ( in fact, it backfired and the back-fired Dan Rather for it ) but do it to old Johnny, and it'll be 100 times worse.
'the whole damned African continent of human scum' - sounds like some of the scum must have escaped to this site! Why is everyone upset about a meeting between Obama and Clinton? They are the top two in their party right now and should be talking and trying to organize a unified Democratic Party for the good of the people.
I'm lying, I'm an Idiot.............ILMAO !!! Check with so many POW net groups, they all hate him. Be a good boy and do some research. Don't rely on one mans word of a book. McCain still has not released 'all the papers' regarding the POW days
McCain wrote his own book !! With no one to back it up but him, and a few well placed friends his father a Navel Admiral, sent his way to coach him !!
Where would McCain be with out his fathers pull, to get his little boy out of trouble. Tapes McCain made in Hanoi while a POW are still in Vietnam. They will be out soon I'm sure !!
And so it is........................
'I'm lying, I'm an Idiot.'
Yes.
'Check with so many POW net groups, they all hate him.'
Such as?
Check with Obamas associates... Tony Rezko is in jail, Jeremiah wright is in his multi million dollar mansion in a white neighborhood, bought with some of the 15 million he got from US tax payers. Bill Ayers is stomping on flags...
' Be a good boy and do some research'
By a Congressional Medal of Honor winner:
By JAMES B. STOCKDALE
CORONADO, Calif. -- I am not surprised by reports that Senator John McCain's political enemies have been spreading rumors that his famous temper is a sign of a broader 'instability' caused by his imprisonment in Vietnam.
In fact, a few weeks ago I received a call from an old friend who is also close to the George W. Bush campaign soliciting comments on Mr. McCain's 'weaknesses.' As I told that caller, I think John McCain is solid as a rock.
And I consider it blasphemy to smudge the straight-arrow prisoner-of-war record of a man who was near death when he arrived at Hoa Loa prison 1967: both arms broken, left leg broken, left shoulder broken by a civilian with a rifle butt.
He was eventually taken to the same rat-infested hospital room I had occupied two years earlier, and, like me, he had surgery on his leg. By then the Vietnamese had discovered that his father was the ranking admiral in the Pacific Fleet, and he received an offer that, as far as I know, was made to no other American prisoner: immediate release, no strings attached. He refused, thereby sentencing himself to four more years in a cell.
There was a special cramped and hot privy-like structure in that Hanoi prison reserved for whichever American was causing the Vietnamese the most trouble. I was the first in the camp to be locked up in it, and I gave it the name Calcutta.
There was only room for one person at a time in the cage, and after a couple of months I was taken out and marched back to a regular cell. As I limped along, I sneaked a peek at my replacement: John McCain, hobbling along on his own bad leg....
Want more????
John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[33][34] McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned, when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi.[33] After he regained consciousness, a crowd attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him;[33] he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the 'Hanoi Hilton'.[34]
Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information.[36] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[36] and announce his capture. His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of The New York Times[37] and The Washington Post.[38]
McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital while receiving marginal care.[33] Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[33] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[39] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[40] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[41]
In mid-1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release.[42] The North Vietnamese wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes,[43] and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[42] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[33]
In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain.[44] McCain was subjected to repeated beatings and rope bindings, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[44] After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda 'confession'.[33] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable,[45] but as he would later write, 'I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine.'[46] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[47] He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[48] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract 'confessions' and propaganda statements, with many enduring even worse treatment than McCain.[49]
McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.[50]
'McCain still has not released 'all the papers' regarding the POW days'
Other then his navy record what other papers are there? Oh, the ones kept by the people torturing him... Well, the DNC went to vietnam to pick them up 8 years ago. It is a testimony to how low they are to go interview people who were kicking a mans teeth out to get some dirt. It also shows what a POS you are to denigrate him by lying about his service.
...white males are the dems biggest constituancy. Just keep it up...
White males! White males? God we gotta keep an eye on THOSE apes!
What we need is McClainton Ticket. It's easy to vote for cryptic leftists. A McClainton ticket would blow Obama right out of the water.
Me? I like my poison straight.
Vote for the HONEST Leftist. Vote Obama.
I would have liked to vote for Hillary if she had won the primary but this is not the case. It will be refreshing to see the current president out of office.
If Mc Cain makes it, I predict another major fiasco. He should do himself a favor and stop that obsessive sick laugh noise he makes, it sounds like a pervert smirking.
'Vote for the HONEST Leftist. Vote Obama.'
There is not one single, solitary, tiny detail about obama that is 'honest'.
You are a sick racist!
Still awaiting the first republican to condemn racism in these posts ...obviously it is permitted if it can be tolerated if it serves them.
...racism condemns itself. Me...I'm still waiting for someone to condemn bigotry against senior citizens, but that's just me....
RE:'There is not one single, solitary, tiny detail about obama that is 'honest'.'
Honesty is a relative term here. We are, after all, talking about leftists. Bernard Sanders is about as honest as leftists get and he masquerades as an 'independent'. He does not run for office as a socialist, even though he has been quite open about his political beliefs. When working in the US Senate, he caucuses with the Democrats.
Hillary Clinton is a stout leftist who masquerades as a 'moderate' Democrat. John McCain is a leftist who masquerades as a Republican.
Barak Obama, on the other hand, makes no bones about being a leftist. His speeches ring with his ideology. Granted, he touts his stuff as being new and he sells his ideas as being a 'change', but relative to John McCain and Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama is very open about his ideology and his intentions.
Even worse for John McCain, he thinks he holds the GOP hostage. He thinks he will have no choice but to vote for him because he is the nearest thing we can get to real Republican.
Well, he is NOT a Republican. He is NOT a champion of free markets or individualism, even though he prides himself on his individualism. He wants to jam his ideas down our throats and in our ears and up our asses just like Hillary and Barak do.
I'll damned unto hell before I'll take that shit off of a Gooper.
Folks, vote for the HONEST leftist. Vote Obama.
tonny from belgium
'Still awaiting the first republican to condemn racism in these posts ...obviously it is permitted if it can be tolerated if it serves them.'
As a McCain suporting, registered independent who doesn't think the USA owes you an explanation for anything I hereby sincerely condemn the racism from our resident idiot/troll.
'Honesty is a relative term here. '
Why don't you be honest and enlighten people to your reasoning behind your choice? It isn't because you believe he will do a good job or help the country. It is because you harbor fantasies of Obama destroying the USA's economy in order that it can be rebuilt in your creepy, am radio listening, John Burch society inspired image of a 1930's America... You think that what's best for us is to live like the Joad family in the Grapes of Wrath. Honesty is a relative, eh? 'Honor over Honor over all' is a commitment that they make at the Trinity church?
'Well, he is NOT a Republican.
Neither are you. Funny, I always thought that (R) after his name stood for republican.
The thing is, your political ideology isn't particularly 'republican' or 'conservative'. I would classify it more along the lines of 'self destructive' and 'Neanderthal'. Never mind the whole 'unworkable and hypocritical, from a practical standpoint you are a nut case. Some of us think that there should be governmental mechanisms in place to help people who are in trouble. A friend of mine and I flew almost 40 hours straight in and out of New Orleans after Katrina because Americans were dying in the kind of society that you think we all should have. (I know, I know.. survival of the fittest. When people get too old to swim for it they need to be let go, eh? )
'He is NOT a champion of free markets or individualism,'
Neither are you, but again, you are wrong. Perhaps he just sees reflexive opposition when practicalities or principals are not at issue as counter productive. Perhaps he isn't an idiot.
'even though he prides himself on his individualism.'
Your definition of 'individualism' is obviously someone who checks their brain at the door and goes along with everything the republicans have done over the past 7 years, including waste money like democrats.
McCain is a good man. I am disappointed that you can't see that. Suit yourself though, if you want to vote for someone who you have stated will wreck the country because you think it will get you to your governmentless utopia you have every right to do that. You are a traitorous lunatic, but it is your constitutional right to wish destruction on the USA. You have found the perfect candidate.
All I can say is that people better start learning to spell the name of our future president - it's Barack not Barak!!
'All I can say is that people better start learning to spell the name of our future president -'
Capital 'M', lower case 'a' capital 'C' lower case 'a' lower case 'i' lower case 'n'.
RE:'Why don't you be honest and enlighten people to your reasoning behind your choice? It isn't because you believe he will do a good job or help the country. ... at the Trinity church?'
Bubba, this is the most disappointing argument you have made to date. I have never hidden my intentions, not once. Nor have I ever made any attempt to hide my reasons for supporting Barack Obama. You are the one who loudly proclaims that Barack Obama will utterly destroy the US.
You suggest that he will do this by two different means. One, by imposing socialist policies on us and thereby ruining the US economy. Two, and as far as you are concerned is the most likely, by allowing external forces to overwhelm us. You agree with Thomas Sowell on this and I firmly believe both of you to be wrong.
This nation cannot be destroyed by any overt external threat, at least not right now. We are bigger, faster and meaner than any other nation on Earth. Yes, we could lose a city, but who ever aided and abetted that would lose their entire country and they know it.
Would Barack Obama be able to impose the whole of his agenda upon us in two years? NO! Proof of that lies in what just happened to the so-called 'Climate Security Bill', S3036. Take a hard look at what happened to that bill and you will understand why I support Barack Obama for president.
I have said that I would RISK the destruction of this country by Barak Obama, not that I expect it. Quite the contrary. I expect something else to be utterly destroyed or at least very badly damaged.
Re'Neither are you. Funny, I always thought that (R) after his name stood for republican.'
Okay, technically, John McCain is a Republican. He IS a party member. I'll give him that much. So was Jim Jeffords and Duke Cunningham. Then, of course, there was the worse than utterly useless Dennis Hastert.
Re:'The thing is, your political ideology isn't particularly 'republican' or 'conservative'. I would classify it more along the lines of 'self destructive' and 'Neanderthal'. Never mind the whole 'unworkable and hypocritical, from a practical standpoint you are a nut case. Some of us think that there should be governmental mechanisms in place to help people who are in trouble. A friend of mine and I flew almost 40 hours straight in and out of New Orleans after Katrina because Americans were dying in the kind of society that you think we all should have. (I know, I know.. survival of the fittest. When people get too old to swim for it they need to be let go, eh? )'
You have never, not once, ever read anything written by me that suggests that I advocate anything of this kind. You haven't because I have never made any such stance, nor have I ever championed any such ideology. I invite your attention to the posts I have made about what happened in New Orleans and why it was such an incredible mess. I have never advocated the establishment of the society that existed in New Orleans and still exists right now.
RE:'Neither are you, but again, you are wrong. Perhaps he just sees reflexive opposition when practicalities or principals are not at issue as counter productive. Perhaps he isn't an idiot.'
Yes, I am. Principles are ALWAYS AT ISSUE, and yes, he is.
RE:'Your definition of 'individualism' is obviously someone who checks their brain at the door and goes along with everything the republicans have done over the past 7 years, including waste money like democrats.'
Oh? How so? Who on these boards has made vociferous protests over that stupid anti-missile defense system President Bush wants to install in Europe? Who has spoken out against the massive agricultural subsidies just recently passed. Who is holding forth against John McCain? Come on, Bubba, you can do better than this.
RE:'McCain is a good man.'
Perhaps. I do not know him personally. A great many people consider Jimmy Carter to be a 'good man.' I do not share their opinion.
RE:'I am disappointed that you can't see that.'
Be it known to you then, that I dislike disappointing and annoying you. I see it as being necessary to the task at hand.
RE:'Suit yourself though, if you want to vote for someone who you have stated will wreck the country because you think it will get you to your governmentless utopia you have every right to do that.'
I have never championed anything so damnably foolish as attempting to establish a society without a government. You have, however, stumbled into something important.
Government is similar to oxygen in a reverse kind of way. If you have too much oxygen, everything catches on fire and burns up. If you have too little oxygen, everything smothers to death. If you get the concentration of oxygen just right, you can breath and most other living things can prosper, but your favorite knife will rust.
Too much government and everything about the governed society is smothered. Too little government and the ungoverned society will self-destruct. Get the government just right the society functions peaceably and becomes highly productive, but you will still have to pay taxes.
RE:'You are a traitorous lunatic, but it is your constitutional right to wish destruction on the USA. You have found the perfect candidate.'
I can forgive you for calling me this, under the circumstances, but you still have not described to us what you think will happen to the country under Barack Obama. How is it, that this one man, is capable of annihilating the United States?
Oh, and by the way, folks. Do us all a favor.
Vote for the HONEST leftist. Vote Obama.
A little fuel for the fire:
//news.google.com/news?btcid=70e35d3942b671
Good lord, people are acting like the Presidency is like a dictatorship, and he (Obama) will have free reign to do whatever he wants with and to this country. This is absolutely nuts............
Barack won't have to destroy the U.S. - it's already going down the tubes under Bush!
One thing is for certain, though. We are at war and will remain at war for the foreseeable future. But, there is more than one way to fight a war, especially a war such as the one we are in at this point in time.
Given that this is the case, would it be smart for us to abandon Iraq? This is, I do realize, what Senator Obama promises to do. I think the results would be very bad, especially for the Iraqis. It would, in effect, hand Iraq over to the Iranians. In fairness to Senator McCain, I have been giving him a terrible time, here is the best ad that he has done to date:
//blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/06/mccain-opens-ca.html
I do not question Senator McCain's sincerity on this issue.
'You are the one who loudly proclaims that Barack Obama will utterly destroy the US.'
I think he will cripple our economy with ruinous, idiotic trade policies, putting 805 of the the worlds oil supply in to, I think that he capitulate to the islamists who have attacked us, I think he will end our status as a superpower and invite further acts of terrorism. I think it us utterly shameful to deliberately lose us a war that we are winning and negate the loss of 4100 Americans. I think a terrorist attack in the USA with weapons of mass destruction WOULD effectively end the USA as we know it. An attack in New York city with low yield weapons has the capacity of killing between 2 and 6 million people. It would destroy our financial infrastructure.
'Yes, we could lose a city, but who ever aided and abetted that would lose their entire country and they know it.'
These animals show that losing their lives is just fine and dandy to their twisted mind set every day. Look up ahmadinejad +hidden imam
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/1507818/'Divine-mis sion'-driving-Iran's-new-leader.html
These are people who stone other people to death in AD 2008. These are people who lynch children for being 'disobedient'. 'Honor killings', hell 'honor rapes' are their 'justice'. Do you think they care if hundreds of thousands are killed? Also, do you think they will leave a return address?
'Would Barack Obama be able to impose the whole of his agenda upon us in two years? NO!'
1) Idiot, a presidential term is at least 4 years.
2) he will have a democrat controlled congress for BOTH terms.
So YES, he will be able to pretty much impose his WHOLE agenda on us. That is before you consider the idea that he JUST MIGHT get re-elected.
'Proof of that lies in what just happened to the so-called 'Climate Security Bill', S3036.'
The HARD LOOK reveals that the few republicans left, several of which will be loosing their seats were enough to prevent a veto from being overridden.
This collapse that you are rooting for, you selfish idiot, won't happen over night. He could drive us in to the ground slow enough to do irreversible damage.
' Take a hard look at what happened to that bill and you will understand why I support Barack Obama for president.'
I understand that you want to see the USA dragged down in to the mud because you think it will be rebuilt the way YOU think it ought to be. It wont be, either way, the mess created here will certainly out live you. If you have children you are condemning them to pay for your stupidity.
'Quite the contrary. I expect something else to be utterly destroyed or at least very badly damaged. '
The liberal mindset? How do you destroy immaturity? It is a fundamental aspect of human nature. Indeed, in is a part of the balance that is necessary to be well adjusted.
'Okay, technically, John McCain is a Republican. '
You are not in any position to be the arbiter of who is a 'good republican' or a 'bad republican'. What you are saying actually makes you a lousy American.
'You have never, not once, ever read anything written by me that suggests that I advocate anything of this kind.'
Of course I have, You want to get rid of social security and the federal reserve and get back to that 'ol fashioned capitalism where there was no fiat currency and trading coon skins for buggy whips is the way to go. Thanks anyway.
I have read what you have written. You are, frankly, all over the place. I think you are simply trying to rationalize a visceral dislike for the man. That is your prerogative, just don't flatter yourself that it is a reasoned decision to vote Obama rather then a hissy fit.
'Principles are ALWAYS AT ISSUE,'
Gee, could it be that he has a principled disagreement with you then?
' Who on these boards has made vociferous protests over that stupid anti-missile defense system President Bush wants to install in Europe? Who has spoken out against the massive agricultural subsidies just recently passed. '
You have made more of an issue over some British aircraft that didn't run out of gas and your visceral dislike for McCain then any agricultural subsidies or missiles which will serve a very real purpose whether they work or not.
' A great many people consider Jimmy Carter to be a 'good man.' I do not share their opinion.'
McCain is no Jimmy Carter, as a matter of fact, you are voting for his ideological soul mate.
'Be it known to you then, that I dislike disappointing and annoying you.'
Not NEARLY enough.
'I see it as being necessary to the task at hand.'
And what is this 'task at hand'?
'You have, however, stumbled into something important.'
Good lord you are full of yourself. There is only room for one arrogant bastard here.
'Government is similar to oxygen in a reverse kind of way. If you have too much oxygen, everything catches on fire and burns up. '
So you are voting for the biggest government, nanny state leftist that there is in the senate versus a moderate who has been a continual voice of reason and fiscal restraint, often against his own party.
This is what it all boils down to: You say you are for one thing and that you are going to vote for the exact opposite. You intend to do this because you want to teach everyone a lesson. It is the craziest, most far fetched thing I have read on this board yet. (Do you realize how loony you have to get in order to earn that title?) It won't happen the way that you envision that it will. You are just helping to make a mess that someone else is going to have to deal with, or simply escape from.
'I can forgive you for calling me this, under the circumstances, but you still have not described to us what you think will happen to the country under Barack Obama.'
Only a billion times at this point, in everything but haiku. Here:
Obama, they know:
Our economy will die
When Hormuz is closed.
--------------
More entitlements?
Our debt is crushing us now.
Are you serious?
--------------
pissing on my head
you grievance collecting b*tch.
calling it; “cloud burst”.
--------------
I don't know what to else say or how to say above and beyond all that I have written about the mess that he will create. That's not even taking in to account who he is: He is a DANGEROUS, socialistic, appeasing, lying, corrupt, fundamentally morally dishonest, kickback taking, crony paying, grievance collecting, perpetual resentment peddling, misplaced guilt complex exploiting, creep collecting messiah of pure, 24 carrot BS.
And you know this already... And you advocate for him.
'but you still have not described to us what you think will happen to the country under Barack Obama.''
Is that the point of this whole exercise?
I condemn the racism in these posts.
KATHLEEN my sweet American beauty, you are in the real world, NOT the puritanical world of the church and all that is nice and cosy.
Meet the opposition, where the gloves come off and practical viewpoints and comments are expressed which are sometimes NOT nice to minds dominated by heaven and angels.
Do you like snakes ? If not, then why have I not the same privilege to dislike blacks ? You hypocritical narrow minded and brainwashed, but probably extremely nice person.
Some of these posts don't seem to be of this world, or from people who's very imagination has gone through the roof! Obama will not destroy this country! The sick racism posted by some mindless fools reeks of low intelligence and probably wouldn't know how or have ever voted. Saying that Obama would destroy this country doesn't say much for any other person serving at the time - is everyone out to do that then? He couldn't do his so-called evil deeds at free reign!
Many of you divine and candy-floss Americans, make obnoxious remarks about 'racism'. a word you don`t even know the meaning of.
Well, just look it up in the dictionary. There is nothing blasphemous or wicked about the definition - in fact it is very logical and natural to all living species, including that supposedly superior variation of the animal evolutionary tree - the human being.
'Racism' has been around for over a million years, ever since man evolved from the primates. What gives any of you the right to suddenly despise what history has proven a natural phenomena ?
OOPS, I`m sorry, you probably believe that we all came from Adam and Eve and the Earth is only 4,000 years old, like the Bible tells you.
If you draw a distinction between animals and that man-made sacred variant called 'humans', then you are simply living in cloud cuckoo land, a world of make believe and everything that is nice.
If you regard all these divine 'humans' as sacred and beyond dislike, then read this and have a puritanical convulsion or heart attack ;-
'Human beings' blew the WTC twin towers to hell, plus the Pentagon, plus some aircraft passengers in a field in Pennsylvania, killing around 3,000 innocent people and maiming 8,000 others, People are still dying from complications through dust inhalation.
YOU LOVE THE 'HUMAN BEINGS' WHO DID THIS ? THEY WERE MUSLIMS - YOU DON`T BELIEVE IN RACISM ?
'Human beings' took Nick Berg prisoner, kept him in terror, until they finally made him kneel down in front of a masked execution team, read a load of crap from the Koran, then cut his throat and while he screamed in terror and agony, spitting blood, hacked his head off and held it up in triumph, while the entire spectacle was videoed in color.
YOU LOVE THE 'HUMAN BEINGS' WHO DID THIS ? THEY WERE MUSLIMS - YOU DON`T BELIEVE IN RACISM ?
Well if you do, I hope your souls rot in hell.
So, don`t come this utter crap about 'racism', it is just an establishment word to make perfectly normal people feel humiliated.
I don`t give a shit about your mental condition, but some do.
GEEEEEEEEEE
So many excotic words to describe me !! Over 62,000 articles describing McCain as the Songbird of Hanoi ! Sorry, but the balance scales just support more and more, McCain is just what he is a 'SONGBIRD'. The Vietnam Vet bloggs are overwhelmed with McCain Haters, Vietnam papers are starting to print more and more about his Singing while a POW !! Bush and McCain walk hand in hand at the White house, what that's telling you..............As any officer in the military knows. With family at the top of the food chain in the military, in McCains case his father a Navel Admiral, always had his son fly just with-in a combat theater to get the points to get the medals. Alot of his combat missions were not really related to going into combat by today's military standards............
Call me what you want, to much out there to support what McCain and his Admiral father did................
And so it is..........................
GEEEEEEEEEE
So many excotic words to describe me !!
sp4 - you have no idea...
Over 62,000 articles describing McCain as the Songbird of Hanoi !
sp4 - that makes none of them right and I'm positive NONE of them are from those who were prisoner WITH him, WHO CAN SUPPORT ANY OF THESE CLAIMS on the record.
Sorry, but the balance scales just support more and more, McCain is just what he is a 'SONGBIRD'.
sp4 - McCain, like other POW's was plian about the fact that he could not hold out idenfinitely. He admits signing documents, to save his life, inhis own book. A half truth is worse than a lie. You could not read a scale.
The Vietnam Vet bloggs are overwhelmed with McCain Haters,
Blogs always seem to be filled with haters -like yourself
Vietnam papers are starting to print more and more about his Singing while a POW !!
sp4 - and, of course, we TRUST state-owned and operated media run by totalitarian governments, riiiight? of course they are...otherwise, the focus will shift to their treatment of him...a fat that is going to be in the media EVERY DAY if he wins. I suspect they do not want this, don't you?
Bush and McCain walk hand in hand at the White house,
sp4 - that would be true only because they are in the same party, a fact that has folks like you instantly condemn him and spread lies like above.
what that's telling you..............As any officer in the military knows.
sp4 - it tells us absolutely nothing, as per the cousr with worms like you.
With family at the top of the food chain in the military, in McCains case his father a Navel Admiral, always had his son fly just with-in a combat theater to get the points to get the medals.
sp4 - MCCains flight history is studded with real missions, including the one that got him shot down. That being the case, I think we can file it under the heading 'you-are-just-a-little-more-than-full-of-crap'.
A lot of his combat missions were not really related to going into combat by today's military standards............
sp4 - all missions called 'combat missions' are such. Any successful take-off and landing on a carrier is the sign of a competent naval aviator.
Call me what you want, to much out there to support what McCain and his Admiral father did................
sp4 - I can never call you what I want. correct, except none of it supports your innuendos. In fact, this is one of the most transparent careers in the public eye.
And so it is..........................
sp4 - you have said nothing. In the age of information, you are why most of it is crap.
No, there won't be a swift boat for mCCain. His comrades in the POW camp are living testimony to his courage and conviction. Go seek the testimony of Colonal George Gay, or his flight buddies still alive. No, you are full of crap.
You are a propagandist, plain and simple. People like you are always with us, Mike Moore and Al Gore, and the rest. It is the price of free speech, and we believe in free speech, because, unlike you libnazis who wan to silence me...
I can win, so I don't need to silence you.
Here is a project for you. Find one guy, ONE GUY, who was locked up with him, who supports ANY of your claims. If you cannot find a single, solitary soldier, sailor or airman, who was locked up with him, to go on-record, to support your useless innuendos, then you are exactly what I said you are. You and dan Rather...
Now get to work. I get tired of having to educate ignoramouses like you.
You apparently don't believe in the Bible, so how do you know anything about hell or believe in that either? Racist, as used in this modern age, has come to mean someone who thinks they are superior, who looks down on another race and believes they are inferior and not deserving - FYI NO single race has all perfect 'human beings' - get real, no one is inferring that..........
And the words racism and racist are used over and over in the papers and mags, not just by some posters here. It seems to me the word 'gay', among others, also has a different or additional meaning that it did in the dark ages!!!
'Obama will not destroy this country! The sick racism posted by some mindless fools reeks of low intelligence and probably wouldn't know how or have ever voted.'
A principled objection to Obamas bad character, incompetence or stated goals is not 'racism'. It is simply common sense.
4SP.................
Thanks for allowing us to laugh our butts off, with your comments here at the VFW !!
Everytime a Navel plane takes off on a carrier that's a combat mission you say..ILMAO !! Then the Navy would run out of medals in days !! Why so many POW's hate this guy, he was taken to a Hospital in Hanoi no other POW was allowed to go. Son of an Adramel, has its most rewarding privileges............By the way, why was he allowed to fly after ditching 5 military aircraft ??? Simple his old man keep him flying, any other Navel pilot would have been drummed out of the Navy long before !!
Want more ???? Bring it on !!!!
Swift Water Will Happen !!
And so it is.................................. :o}
The comments about racism WEREN'T in relation to ordinary criticism of Obama's policies or beliefs, it was toward remarks like 'people in Africa are the scum of the earth' and really vile comments about blacks and Obama as a person. OK???
'Thanks for allowing us to laugh our butts off, with your comments here at the VFW !!'
Oh, so you are a veteran of foreign wars? You are a liar.
'Everytime[sic] a Navel[sic] plane takes off on a carrier that's a combat mission you say..ILMAO !!'
So were you in the Navy? Is that where you learned to spell 'Naval'? You lying idiot.
'Why so many POW's hate this guy,'
They don't. Read Stockdale or Day, they are full of parse for McCains courage.
'he was taken to a Hospital in Hanoi no other POW was allowed to go.'
You are just plain lying. Provably lying. He spent 5 and a half years in a Hanoi torture camp rather then give the Vietnamese a propaganda victory.
'Son of an Adramel[sic], has its most rewarding privileges'
How on earth would you know you complete liar?
'By the way, why was he allowed to fly after ditching 5 military aircraft ??? '
He wasn't, he didn't 'ditch' 5 aircraft, you liar.
'Simple his old man keep him flying,'
His old man keep him flying ridiculously dangerous missions attacking the most heavily defended target from air attack in human history...
'any other Navel[sic] pilot would have been drummed out of the Navy long before !!'
Again, one would think such an expert on Naval Aviation would know that it is not spelled the same way as your bellybutton.
Speaking of bellybuttons, since you have your head crammed so far up your backside to you eat through yours?
' Want more ???? Bring it on !!!!'
Indeed, I can't wait until you scumbags try to tarnish a genuine American hero with your obvious lies. That should help keep that thieving, resentment trading creep that the democrats mominated out of office.
Simple - don't waste time debating McCain's merits or not - vote for Obama.
“I think he is making promises he cannot possibly deliver on and knows it.”
Who will stop him?
“He has been in the Senate long enough to know better.”
He hasn’t been in the senate long enough to know anything. Look at his record, he has missed most of his votes. Just kike when he was a state senator.
“We would not otherwise have a free country. We have a system of checks and balances, remember?”
Yes, the legislative branch is supposed to be a check on the executive. The democrats will have both if Obama is elected. They will have a sizable majority in the legislative. Not having obama IS the only check and balance we will have for at least the next 4 years.
“Compromises will be reached and some of those treaties do indeed need to be modified, or better enforced.”
You can’t just unilaterally abrogate specific terms on something like NAFTA. The Canadians have rightfully said that if we were not going to live up to our word (remember that funny joke? Our word? Does that mean anything any more? Not in the face of hope ‘n change) then the whole thing was open for re-negotiation. When it was negotiated it was at $11 a bbl, now it is at $130 and rising. Where do you think we get most of our oil? That is just an example. The clear point is that you have someone who is dangerously naive and who has complete disdain for American sovereignty who is going to be making these compromises.
“I'm guessing you meant '80% of the world's oil supply in to...'.”
Yes.
“having made that guess, I still am not certain of what you were driving at.”
80+% of the crude oil used in the world today goes in and out of the Strait of Hormuz that connects the Gulf of Oman to the Arabian gulf. The Iranians have repeatedly threatened and tried to close it off. They have mined it.
1) If we turn over Iraq too soon it will become stage for a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The sunnis and the shiites will be at each others throats over who gets control over the oil and it’s wealth. It doesn’t matter who wins, either side will set up a failed, terrorist friendly state in the geographic center of the middle east. Look up Mackinder's heartland theory and read about the concept of pivot points. Iraq is the hub of the middle east. If it is a successful democracy then stability will spread, if it is a failed terrorist state, then islamist terrorism will spread. It is that simple and that obvious.
2) If our allies in the region see that we cravenly run from wars that we started there will be no incentive to help us do anything. If we are a country that can not be believed then you will see the gulf states stop cooperating with issues like terrorism and trade. Want to see the dollar take a bigger hit? Watch what happens when they start trading oil in other currencies.
3) If Iran is allowed to acquire an atomic bomb they can make good their threat to close the Strait of Hormuz. They will too. They will also probably make good on their threat to wipe out Israel.
For all these reasons and more, not even considering what will happen to the Iraqis, we can not abandon Iraq before it is ready to stand on it’s own 2 feet. Even just one more presidential ought to do it.
“Worse, John McCain has bought into the Democrat's approach to solving this problem.”
Not really. I do not support the cap and trade nonsense, but he also supports allowing states to decide whether or not they can drill off shore. He supports nuclear power and he has PROMISED not to get caught up in an international agreement like Kyoto unless China, India and Brazil also get on board.
“Not wanting to offend his Democrat buddies, he hides behind his 'federalism' when it comes to our tapping our own resources.“
A reoccurring theme in your whines about McCain is that he doesn’t deliberately offend democrats just for the sake of offending them. Maybe he isn’t stupid…
“If so, then he is exercising some rather poor judgment because this is a matter of NATIONAL SECURITY”
For the Zillionth time, your choice is between someone who is going to give you some of what you want, someone who will listen to what you have to say and someone who doesn’t give a rats ass about National Security.
“I think that he may actually sympathize with them, as do a great many others in the Democrat Leadership. If I'm right, it will be hard for him to hide this flaw once elected.”
I hope it’s your friends and loved ones this time then.
“I think that once this proclivity is exposed, it will have some rather large ramifications for both Republicans and Democrats.”
If 9/11 didn’t get peoples heads right, and it didn’t obviously, you are going to have to reconcile yourself that a large segment of the population is simply oblivious and will be until something unimaginably horrible happens. You seem to have joined them, indeed, they are just clueless; You are something worse.
“Jimmy Carter tried to do this and look what happened to him.”
When Jimmy carter was elected we weren’t in the middle of a 2 front war against an enemy committed to murdering as many civilians as possible. We didn’t have a debt that was 60% of gdp. Indeed, the USA was at arguably the height of the dynastic cycle.
“I mean, we were all SO impressed with the way he dealt with the Iranians, weren't we?”
At this critical juncture we do not have the luxury of electing someone as incompetent or as morally cowardly as Carter or Obama. Obama is actually worse then Carter by leaps and bounds. He can talk his way out of anything. Carter just looked hapless. Obama will have the failures pinned on the usual suspects.
“Unfortunately, the Republicans we elected were poorly led and little inspired by President Bush.”
They were like pigs at the trough. They have made an undeniable mess. There is simply no excuse for the waste over the past 7 years. One of the few that stood against it was McCain which is why they hate his guts. Poorly lead? Perhaps. But the precise truth is that THEY screwed up. Again, McCain was one of the only ones shouting about the disgusting waste of money that is only going to get exponentially worse under Obama.
“On another note, we will NOT be able to remain a superpower if we do not find a way to answer our energy requirements that minimizes our reliance on crude oil”
The obvious issue is how you go about doing it. The Khmer Rouge fixed their crude oil energy requirements in a few weeks by blowing up anything that ran on internal combustion. In the mean time, what then? Price controls? Nationalize the oil companies? Rationing?
“This blythely assumes that a President McCain would have the legislative support he needs to actually win in Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and, quite possibly, Iran.”
All he needs is enough to be able to stop a veto override for Iraq and Afghanistan. North Korea and Iran will have to simmer a bit more.
Regardless, for the Zillionth time, you have a choice between someone who will confront/engage and someone who will capitulate/appease. (yet you know this)
“I think that the Democrats will milk everything they can from John McCain and then still hold us short of a victory. They really are that rotten.”
Yet you are going to vote for the most rotten one.
“They will engineer a failure with John McCain as president and do so in a way that makes their perfidy appear to be his responsibility.”
At this point the heavy lifting is done in Iraq and Afghanistan still has support. We simply cannot afford to lose either.
“I think that it would infuriate the American people so badly that there would be no place for the bastards to hide.”
At what cost? The death of the USA? Look, I won’t be here, I live in the red part of the bulls eye but I do not appreciate the woman and children that I see every day being so “blithely“ sacrificed in your bazaaro-world scenario of allowing Americans to be murdered in order to properly “motivate” the survivors.
“As for the destruction of our financial infrastructure, I do believe that our financial wizards understand the need for off-site backups.”
Again, Americans being killed by the thousands or hundreds of thousands or quite possibly the millions as has been speculated by detonating a 1040’s era atom bomb in midtown Manhattan will probably not produce the results that you are wishing for. But thanks for your well wishes.
“I have said that I would RISK the destruction of this country by Barak Obama,”…
Pretty stupid, self-centered, self-defeating, un-epenthetic and mentally unbalanced of you.
“How could they fail to leave a 'return address?'”
Load it in a truck, drive it in, set it off. Where did it come from? AQ Kahn? North Korea? Iran? Russia? They all deny it. Your isotope tests are Jack Bower-esque fantasy.
“Leave us to say that I do not share your pessimism.”
Well you haven’t read any polling data then.
“The numbers I have in front of me suggest that Congress is already in for a bloodbath.”
Take a look at the number of weak seats held by the GOP and by the democrats.
“A President Obama backed by a compliant Democrat led Congress will begin to self destruct during the first one hundred days of his administration.”
You underestimate the degree to which the willing can be had. You see it here every day. These people do not want to be bothered with inconvenient facts, they WILL believe what they want to believe and that is whatever makes them feel better about themselves. Obama is the most gifted salesman/messiah of BS I have ever seen. All of that adds up to enough time to sink the ship to where it can’t be floated again.
“You overlooked that fact that Harry Reid was the one who insisted on a cloture vote on Friday.”
Because he KNEW IT COULDN”T WITHSTAND THE VETO. He did that to save the bill for another day when they have a better shot at getting it passed. The only thing a cloture vote does is temporarily stop debate. This thing isn’t dead yet.
“He was pressured to do so by Democrats.”
WHO KNEW IT COULDN’T WITHSTAND THE VETO. Reid is saving it for another day when he knows the thing can be pushed through.
Here, the list of people for:
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Collins (R-ME)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dole (R-NC)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Sununu (R-NH)
Tester (D-MT)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
7 Republicans 2 independents.
The list of people against:
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Brown (D-OH)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Corker (R-TN)
Crapo (R-ID)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lugar (R-IN)
McConnell (R-KY)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Wicker (R-MS)
4 democrats…
“Those Democrats voted WITH the Republicans or that bill would still be on the floor of the Senate.”
The numbers prove you wrong.
“Remember how quickly we rebounded from that madness after Reagen was elected?”
Pinning your hopes on that is so far fetched that it is ludicrous. Obama is not as pathetically un-slick as Carter and the country is not the same as it was in 1979.
“I want to encourage the Democrats in their folly, yes.”
Some of are trying to have a life in this country that you want to drag down.
“One of the things I want the most is to discredit the radical left that drives the Democrats to such unforgivable excess.”
Isn’t deliberately losing 2 wars and destroying the economic prosperity of the country going a bit far to make Michael Moore look like a bigger turd?
“Below that I want the Democrats out of power for twenty years.”
So of course your brilliant plan is to vote them in to office…
“I have children and grandchildren. Their future is one of the things that worries me the most.”
Well you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are condemning them to live in a country whose word means nothing.
“So anyone who votes for a Democrat, Barack Obama in this case, is a lousy American?”
Anyone who votes for someone because they recognize that they will drive the country in to the ground is a lousy American. Anyone who is reasoned enough to see the calamity and who takes steps to see that it happens is a lousy American.
“What if they vote for Jim Webb?”
Lol… It depends on what is motivating them. If they believe that he will do a great job because they do not know the first thing about him then no, not a “lousy American”. If they are voting for him because they KNOW that he is an abusive, swaggering, boorish ape who gets off on making other peoples lives miserable and they WANT him to drive the country in to the ground, then YES, they are a “lousy American”.
“What about the guy who caucuses with Republicans, but supports Democrat ideology”
He doesn’t.
“and thinks of Hillary Clinton as a source of inspiration?”
Personally I admire her drive and stamina. Like her or not, she is as tough as a keg of nails, and almost as cuddly. I do not have to endorse what she is in order to respect attributes of her personality.
“'As the father of three daughters, I owe her a debt for inspiring millions of women to believe there is no opportunity in this great country beyond their reach.'”
And that somehow makes him a traitor to individualism no doubt? Or to the Republicans?
“Why did he feel compelled to talk about Hillary Clinton this way?”
Because Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Susan Palin, Jean Kirkpatrick and Margret Thatcher were not competing against him for the office of President. He was trying to be gracious and maybe pick up a few votes. Should he have pulled out a tazer and given the hag a few thousand volts? Is that how you would have handles the situation?
“No, I see myself as a hardcore American. An American who recognizes political and intellectual poisons for what they are.”
You are simply floating in your own rationalizations.
“I especially dislike it when fiat currency is used to encourage people to go heavily in debt and fail to save money.”
What happened to individual responsibility?
“Why would I go to this extreme if were anything less?”
I think your rationality has been usurped by your ego.
“I have gotten far more arguments from posters on this board over BAO38 than over the missile defense shield”
You picked up a troll, that is what happens when you have a fixed user name.
“Where were you? If you disagreed, why is it that you and I haven't had a serious debate over it?”
Choosing my battles, only 24 hrs in a day. Soon I will have almost no time for this.
“yes, I do intend to vote for Senator Obama and I expect him to be rather less successful than Jimmy Carter was.”
Gee, idiot, voting for someone because you believe they will make a mess makes you a lousy American.
“As bad as it will be, that will be considerably better than the disaster we suffered under Richard Nixon.”
I don’t.
“have encouraged you to speak up a bit more than you might otherwise have done.”
I was so shy before.
“I am obliged by duty to continue annoying you.”
You will be annoying others soon as I will be on a project. I hope you will reconsider the stupid idea of deliberately damaging the country on the off chance that the disgust that it produces will somehow get you your way.
“Oh, I think you will figure it out eventually. You are a good deal brighter than most.”
Wrongheaded yet patronizing… Yup, an obama supporter.
“I want to cripple the Democrat Party. I would destroy it if I could.”
So the obvious choice is to vote for it… Not get out and work to defeat it or anything. Sort of like defeating the Nazis by joining the SS. It makes perfect sense!
“Nicely done, but do you think we will be ready to tackle Iran by the time these elections are over?”
I hope it doesn’t come to that. Appease the monsters and it will.
“And yet you cling to social security.”
On the most basic level, it is not only correct to help people who can’t help themselves it is also enlightened self interest.
“I think he will serve our needs better than Senator McCain can.”
I do not need the country destroyed in order to save it. What I do need is to get my tired ass out and fight the good fight until election day. If Obama wins (and you just might get your wish) he will be my president as well and I will support him as best as I can because I believe in democracy, the constitution and the USA.
“It is necessary to explain why.”
I have been. You are not going to hear it though.
'Simple - don't waste time debating McCain's merits or not - vote for Obama.'
The 'reasoning' behind most of the 'decisions' to vote for Obama...
Voting for 'chipmonk cheeks' is not going to do this country any good unless we want more Bush years!
Yo, Bubba!
I'm answering your questions under USA/In Photos: Hillary Clinton suspends her campaign'.
This article is about to scroll out of sight and is going to be hard to find.
By the way, I am saving both our posts. Let me know if you need a copy.
'By the way, I am saving both our posts. Let me know if you need a copy.'
Are you kidding?
'Voting for 'chipmonk cheeks' is not going to do this country any good unless we want more Bush years!'
You regurgitate your programing well Diana....
First of all, you need to learn to read. And second of all, if someone thinks differently than you, they are an idiot? That makes tens of thousands of idiots then.
'First of all, you need to learn to read. '
If I didn't know how to read how would I have been able to determine that you are an idiot? I can't see how dumb you look from here.
'And second of all, if someone thinks differently than you, they are an idiot?'
ABSOLUTELY.
'That makes tens of thousands of idiots then.'
Indeed it does.
It wasn't Diana, you simpleton, it was Dina. You can't even read a simple statement. And I'm not surprised you hold youself so far above the tens of thousands. Obama and Clinton did the only intelligent thing by holding a meeting and deciding to work together. I don't feel it's necessary to call people names who are voting for McCain, when you can certainly state reasons, and I feel like it would just be voting for another Bush and his war mongering. That doesn't mean I think the voters are stupid, idiots, f-ing idiots or whatever. Maybe you need to go to your happy place!
'It wasn't Diana, you simpleton, it was Dina. '
Oh well...
'. You can't even read a simple statement. '
'chipmonk[sic] cheeks' is a statement from a simpleton. If I were to say that you shouldn't vote for obama because he has clownishly large ears would that be as valid as saying that he is a dangerous incompetent that plans to lose us 2 wars to the islamists who attacked us and destroy our economy with entitlement programs that we can't afford?
'I'm not surprised you hold youself[sic] so far above the tens of thousands. '
It is a needy, fundamentally insecure mind that seeks to justify your decision by the fact that other people have made it. The fact that someone else has come to your same conclusion doesn't make your conclusion more valid... Is popularity the measure of accuracy or truth?
'and I feel like it would just be voting for another Bush and his war mongering'
Why don't you think instead of feel?
' That doesn't mean I think the voters are stupid, idiots, f-ing idiots or whatever.'
Could I ever persuade you with logic and reasoned arguments that you were wrong? Seriously? Could I, with pictures and pie charts and footnoted texts persuade you that your 'feelings' on the subject are not as valid as your 'thoughts' should be? Could I ever persuade you that some things are worth fighting for and that this country is one of them? That is not a popular idea so probably not.
'Maybe you need to go to your happy place!'
Dina, ignoring what is going on is not going to make me happy for very long.
you are totally unbelievable! Actually I didn't say 'Chipmunk Cheeks' McCain - you are being presumptuous! Regardless, I think/feel that is pretty mild compared to the completely vile words that have been used in relation to Obama. As for going along with something because of a majority is not what I inferred. You need to get your 'teacher's' mentality wrapped around the subject at hand. I think/feel that Obama and Clinton are on the right track in meeting and wanting to unite for the better of the party, and I strongly hope that they accomplish this, and Obama is voted in as the next President. I don't think/feel he is out to ruin this country. However, the voters should have been well aware that this might happen before voting for Bush because of his obvious 'dumb guy' persona. Although that is probably no doubt what the 'players' wanted - someone to control!! -
page: 1
Your Talkback on this Story