US News
Obama, McCain woo Christian voters at faith forum
Aug 17, 2008, 3:04 GMT
Senator Barack Obama (L) high-fives Dr. Rick Warren (R) during the Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, USA, 16 August 2008. EPA/PAUL BUCK
Washington - Presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain on Saturday appeared onstage together briefly for the first time in their general election campaign at a forum where each attempted to convince Christian voters they share their values.
The candidates differed most sharply over abortion, a ubiquitous issue in US elections and a key topic for typically conservative Christian voters.
The wide-ranging discussion about religious beliefs, values and politics was hosted by the Reverend Rick Warren, whose Saddleback Church in southern California has 22,000 members. Each candidate was interviewed separately by Warren, who has been hailed as among the most important new leaders of evangelical Christians.
The group has in the past been a key constituency of the Republican Party, largely on moral issues such as opposition to abortion and gay marriage. But Warren and other young leaders have attempted to expand evangelicals' focus to other issues, such as global warming and fighting HIV/AIDS.
The candidates were asked what Christianity means to them, a crucial issue for Obama, who though a Christian has faced rumours that he was actually a Muslim. He said he believes 'Jesus Christ died for my sins and I am redeemed through him.'
But though Obama seemed comfortable discussing his faith, his views on the hot-button issue of abortion were at odds with much of the audience.
He put off a question about when the rights of an unborn child begin.
'I think whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a culture perspective, to answer it with that specificity is above my pay grade,' Obama said.
McCain, on the other hand, stressed his party's long-standing opposition to the practice, to loud applause.
Both men said they believe in the existence of evil and that it must be confronted. McCain named terrorist leader Osama bin Laden as an example of evil, saying he would defeat the al-Qaeda chief.
'If I have to go to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and I will bring him to justice,' he said, echoing language he has used before on the campaign trail.
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www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/08/breaking_news_n_1.html
Doug Johnson of the National Right to Life Committee drew my attention to a previously unnoticed January 2008 article by Terence Jeffrey stating Barack Obama actually did vote against a version of the IL Born Alive Infants Protection Act that was identical to the federal version, contrary to multiple public statements Obama or his surrogates have made to rationalize his opposition to the IL bill for the past 4 years.
Since then we have found 2 separate documents proving Barack Obama has been misrepresenting facts.
In fact, Barack Obama is more liberal than any U.S. senator, voting against identical language of a bill that body passed unanimously, 98-0. In fact, Barack Obama condones infanticide if it would otherwise interfere with abortion.
Here is the statement with documentation released by NRLC this morning...
New documents just obtained by NRLC, and linked below, prove that Senator [Barack] Obama has for the past four years blatantly misrepresented his actions on the IL Born-Alive Infants Protection bill.
Summary and comment by NRLC spokesman Douglas Johnson:
Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an IL state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion. Obama's legislative actions in 2003 - denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions - were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose.
In 2000, the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act was first introduced in Congress. This was a two-paragraph bill intended to clarify that any baby who is entirely expelled from his or her mother, and who shows any signs of life, is to be regarded as a legal 'person' for all federal law purposes, whether or not the baby was born during an attempted abortion.
Full article and links here:
www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/08/breaking_news_n_1.html
take your politics and shove them where the sun don't shine. You are not commenting, but politicing. What are you, a paid stooge of the GOP(Graft,Obfuscation,Prefidy)? I repeat, because you are a little more than dense in the head department, Sod off, yank-er.
Canadians can't vote here you pathetic loser. No one on either side of the border cares what you think. Go off yourself.
McCain was sharp, fast and funny. He actually appeared to have more energy than Obama. And he was a heck of a lot sharper. McCain never hesitated. He had the ease and confidence of a man who has firmly thought through his positions and is comfortable with his beliefs.
Like Obama, McCain never shyed away from tough questions. While Obama occasionally answered questions more thoroughly than McCain, Obama's slower pace and rambling answers came off as nuanced and lacking in confidence when compared to McCain.
I've just watched the forum a second time. I don't know how he did it, but McCain had more charisma tonight than Obama. This just wasn't the way it was supposed to be! anyone who thought it would be a lopsided election with Obama's youth, superb communication skills and strong position on the issues simply sweeping away the wrinkly old white haired guy needs to think again.
If tonight was Round One, McCain won handily. Obama is in for the fight of his life!
I see the GOP dirty trick department is active again.Defending unborn life ?Once it is born it will be unprotected :the people from the GOP have no problem defending the use of cluster bombs,land mines and other weapons of mass destruction aimed specifically at civilians .When will the USA sign the treaties that ban these weapons ,most other countries di?Double standards and hypocrisy rule unfortunately .Perhaps time to reflect on moral issues in a brader perspective .True christians should consider moral standards on larger issues such as these rather than confine their principles on moral issues fed to you by those that want you to look away from moral equally important issues.
Why give attention to one only?
The candidates are doing nothing more than their mating dance to get the evangelical votes. From their perspective it only makes sense. But I have my doubts that either candidate is really concerned for any religious denomination other than that the winner of the November elections will be sworn to uphold those rights for the American citizens.
By far McCain hold to the closer standards for conservative Christianity. But that would more likely be because of the Republican Partyfs dictates on such issues, rather than by his personal choice.
Rick Warren will likely come out of this forum as the winner with all the additional popularity hefll gain through it. With Billy Graham in the twilight days of his life, and Jerry Falwell gone on to heaven where hefs finally getting his pastoral theology straightened out, Warren is probably looking to become the new gspiritual advisorh to the president. However, in the process hefs walking a very fine line. It is illegal in the United States for a pastor to endorse any political candidate from his pulpit or platform for preaching.
I personally find political forums of this nature distasteful all around. Although the separation between Church and State issue has been blown light years out of proportion in the past 50 years, this is one area where I personally feel it should be maintained and politics should stay out of religion and vice-versa.
'?Once it is born it will be unprotected '
Barack Obama voted against protecting babies that survived an attempted abortion. Stating that is not a 'dirty trick', it is the fact.
'the people from the GOP have no problem defending the use of cluster bombs,land mines and other weapons of mass destruction aimed specifically at civilians'
That is a lie. None of our munitions are 'aimed specifically at civilians'.
'When will the USA sign the treaties that ban these weapons'
When countries like Belgium can be counted on for genuine support in institutions like NATO instead of getting a free ride and complaining about the way other people defend you.
'Double standards and hypocrisy rule unfortunately '
Tell me about it.
'True christians should consider moral standards on larger issues such as these rather than confine their principles on moral issues fed to you by those that want you to look away from moral equally important issues.'
You are too ill informed to lecture, too morally skewed to judge and you don't have a vote in our elections. Fix your own country before you would presume to tell us how to run ours.
I don't want to get to overheated about what occurred tonight, but I do think McCain had a clear and decisive victory over Obama. It all comes down to something that Phil Bredesen, the Democratic governor of Tennessee recently said about Obama: Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.
By that standard, McCain did extremely well and Obama did very poorly. McCain's answers were direct, confident and, most importantly, serious. When asked about what leaders he would consult as president, he first suggested Gen. Petraeus, architect of the surge, who he correctly praised as one of America's all-time great military leaders. By way of contrast, Obama suggested he would seek out the advice of a 'typical white person', err, his grandmother and his wife Michelle, who's still trying to decide whether she's proud of her country.
When asked 'At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?,' McCain answered 'At the moment of conception.' Obama's answer here was flaming-dirigible bad:
Whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is, you know, above my pay grade.
That spectacularly inept metaphor is going to haunt Obama throughout the rest of the campaign.
one can see both these guys are not right in the head .
everyone in their right mind knows God is a fairy tail just like santa claus and the easter bunny .a story that was thought up way back and passed on for generations .im 68 and was told that story when i was a kid...
tonny from belgium: 'Defending unborn life ? ... the people from the GOP have no problem defending the use of cluster bombs,land mines'
Obviously the solution, in this insane world, is to kill unborn babies by inserting land minds up the vessels of their incubators.
Sure, it may seem gruesome and insensitive, but that is the way it works. Sometimes compromise produces the strangest bed fellows. Such as when christians mass kill muslims without mass killing muslims. It isn't that they are killing muslims, it is just that the corpuscular vessel that they are terminating happens to be occupied by a muslim at the time.
There is no sense to such acts, and they are not relegated to the U.S. It just happens that at this time the U.S., and Bush, are the biggest and most powerful hypocrite and bringer of death that the world has ever seen with hundreds of millions of dedicated followers that drink the sugar water of jesus in order to rationalize anything.
The choice is obvious: Kill and you are a killer. Don't kill and you are not a killer.
Also, using ideology as an excuse to mass kill people is plainly stupid and not a legitimate reason for mass killing people.
Spreading democracy by mass kill people defeats democracy.
Spreading the values of jesus by mass kill people defeats jesus.
People that do such things are a sham and have dishonored themselves.
Another dirty trick from those in the GOP dirty trick internet task force that claim Obama kills babies (how revolting can you get making such scandalous free affirmations ) is simply by obfuscating the difference between a baby ,embryos and unborn life .Make the definitions as nebulous and unspecified as possible is the motto from these fine gentlemen ,that way you make every counter argument difficult .Fine then,state your arguments about the right to abortion a little bit less elusive and then we can yalk .Accusing a presidential candidate to be a child assassin could only be used by the GOP 's revolting dirty trick department .Is Karl Rove still working with you guys ?Remember the swift boat campaign?That one worked out really well for you,but times are changing .It will probe more difficult to impose your gross lies on the majority of the people .and with idiots like SP4 on your side,you are in fact counter-productive .Thank you for showing to the rest of the world how insane you all are and what kind of democracy you stand for .The issues are the economy,climate change,the price of the petrol,your financial crisis amongst others .By taking the discussion to other terrain you only show that you fear those subjects .We al know why...
ain't no Canucks here, dickweed. Try again. EssPee doesn't need a wimpy little slut like you to defend him. But then, who am I responding to except the multi-personality disorder man, EssPee itself.
Yes, Tonny, Karl Rove has an ironclad strategy:
Just let them be who they are.
Positively diabolical, huh?
Obama, who belongs to a Pseudo-Christian-Hate Cult, certainly does not need to have Karl Rove undermine him...he did that all by himself.
I know it's hard to swallow, but the Catholic Church, no matter what you think of them, is anassailable on the subject of life, unborn or otherwise. You'd know this if you would inform yourself, or at least admit you are biased. Curiously, the liberal churches, Catholic, Southern Baptist, etc., all still oppose abortion. In fact, almost as many Democrats as republicans do.
As for the issues, we just witnessed the Democratic Primary, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but health care hardly ever came up which was somewhat of a surprise, until you consider the presumptive candidate. In fact, they trashed the supposed health care candidate.
Oil seems to even had it's run, and it looks to me like the dems look more like Republicans every day! I know, it's a sham but it IS uplifting Tonny! What does Nancy Pelosi communicate when she rolls on domestic drilling?
I think that, pretty much skewers your diatribe, through and through. The American political system is complex, Tonny, and you really need to study a lot harder.
Of course, it's been a pleasure.
Of course if you are Republican and a Catholic you are right on the money about everything - right SP? Abortion is a slippery slop, and there isn't one rule that works for every situation regardless - such as, would you abort a fetus to save the mother who already has several living children, etc., etc. Generalization is never good in any situation!
sp4 said awile back hat if he had his way he would kill every democrate he could. and i beleive it.
when you get right down to it
Mccain is a phoney bastard just like bush and sp4 is.
and bush is phoney and deranged too.....like sp4 ...lol
' Abortion is a slippery slop, and there isn't one rule that works for every situation regardless'
If a baby survives the attempted abortion and is alive on the table then what? It is no longer abortion is it? Obama voted to just let those babies die. That is beyond even what the abortion advocates would advocate.
let god sort them out.
And didn't I state that one rule can't apply to every situation, and generalization is never good???
Tonny
The Born-Alive Infants Protection Act extended legal protection to an infant born alive after a failed attempt at induced abortion. It would prevent 'doctors' from allowing a new born baby to die. Obama voted against this twice. His response to questions about this now that he is running for president has been to lie.
...because it helps define what a candidate really is. I mean, a Southern Baptist democrat must have a very difficult time greenlighting an Obama. After all, if a child comes out of the womb and the doctor still intends to kill it, as it arrives in the world what other word describes this except murder?
Now Tonny from Auschwitz seems to think that, if you neglect a child in this world, it, somehow, greenlights you killing it in the womb. A pity we cannot ask the fetus how he feels about this...but then again that is the way liberals like it:
Citizens without a voice.
'Citizens without a voice.'
My, my, what a double standard from the flip-flop man. Those ctizens of the world, without a voice are fair game for the political oil wars of the Republican'ts. It is OK to napalm, clusterbomb, irradiate, shoot, landmine, strafe, torture them, according to SPa-hole and company, but you cannot abort a fetus that is totally deformed and brainless. I guess that is why SP is here, spouting his mindless crap. He is one fetus that should have been aborted. Too bad it can't be done retroactively.
' It is OK to napalm, clusterbomb, irradiate, shoot, landmine, strafe, torture them'
That is because they are muslims, or other non-chirstian non-republican low lives.
'... but you cannot abort a fetus that is totally deformed and brainless.'
That is because, by definition, they are Christian Republican droids, one of SP4's own kind. One day they will be able to vote for Bush III.
... I know, sick humor. But, it is a sick world where christians mass kill muslims.
Sick humor?
Not at all.
That's reality.
'... but you cannot abort a fetus that is totally deformed and brainless.'
That chimpanzee that had you didn't abort you because you were brainless. Lets see, by Obamas reasoning it's still not too late to abort your islamist ass.
Stop hijacking threads, no one is going to feel bad for you.
That the 'shuddup lance' person somehow did not auto-abort due to lack of brains. Clearly another case where the doctors should have vacuumed the little cretin. But then on the positive side, when he enlists and gets sent to Afghanistan the only way he'll come home is in a zip-lock baggy. He'll think cluster bomblets are golf balls and give one a swack. One more Heee-row for Ammerrricka.
'One more Heee-row for Ammerrricka.'
Aaah yes, more hysterical anti American resentment from our impotent neighbor. Poor thing, all the way at the bottom. Under the progressive conservatives, under Harper and under us. Such frustration... :-D
smirks yet once again. Wrong as per usual. He looks north, and 'thinks' that is where I am. I have yet to see one of these republican't morons get one thing right. Slam Canada all you want, it doesn't bother me at all. At least map-wise he is looking up, in total opposition to his future, which is pretty bleak. Just think though, that when a Canadian flushes a toilet the contents go down-hill. Wear it well. Wear it with pride, you yankee pig-dog.
'He looks north, and 'thinks' that is where I am. '
Guess you were lying. Either way, you obviously resent the USA, why would we take your campaign advice?
'st think though, that when a Canadian flushes a toilet the contents go down-hill.'
Guess you are too stupid to understand the difference between 'north and south' and 'up and down' as well.
AP photo of school register reveals 'Barry Soetoro' as muslim Indonesian
A 2007 Associated Press photograph, suppressed until now, shows the school register of the child who is today known as Barack Hussein Obama but was officially listed then as Barry Soetoro, whose citizenship was listed as 'Indonesian' and whose religion was listed as 'Islam.' The visual evidence starkly contradicts the Obama campaign's claim that he was not a Muslim and confirms that he is a national of at least one other country.
In addition, it raises the highly problematic issue of what is Obama's official name. If it turns out to Barry Soetoro, and no official change of name was ever made, Obama may face an array of charges of deception and misprision that may throw into doubt, at the very least, his fitness to run.
web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13056.htm
Is that the best you can do?
No wonder you are such a failure.
To put a little common sense into your education, in orienting a map, North is placed 'up.' South is down. East is to the right and West is to the left. That is the way the words are printed on it as well, so that a person can read the information and not get lost. Now do you see the correlation between North and Up & South and Down, and where the fecal matter on your corn flakes comes from? Or did you get lost, again.
Suppressed until now'
Yeah, right.
More likely the Rove dirty tricks department just finished faking the thing in their backroom den of inequity.
'Is that the best you can do? No wonder you are such a failure. '
Gee, one could only aspire to be SP4's creepy stalker like you. A pack of razor blades will make all your failure go away.
'To put a little common sense into your education, in orienting a map, North is placed 'up.' South is down.'
Not always.
'Now do you see the correlation between North and Up & South and Down,'
No. Down has nothing to do with the points on a compass. The only way fecal matter would flow south is if you were to waddle out of your mommy's basement and try to get across the border to the USA.
'More likely the Rove dirty tricks department just finished faking the thing'
Nope. No need.
Guys,best dispose of insults,this starts to look a bit like a clone of the mudslinging campaign from the GOP,do you realy want to use this kind of tactics ?Tey still are trying to make you believe Obama is an islamist:pâid and organised by the GOP and their dirty internet task force,though they know it is nothing but lies .To all the readers,do you realy want to vote for a part that took it's tactics straight from Dr Goebbels ?Piling lies upon lies upon lies upon lies,and not one word about theit own plitical program at all.Wonder why ?Just look at the past eight yers:the top 2 percent of the richest gor richer thanks to Bush,the rest got poorer on the average,and thanks to the accumulated debt it will take a decade to fill the gap without any form of compensation for your tax .The only ones that gained are the friends of the republicans .Forgotten Katrina ?Michael Brown's only merit to be nominated as head of FEMA was organizing hunting parties for the oil tycoons in Wyoming,nothing more .That was enough to make him a b uddy of Bush and apparently the ideal administrator for FEMA.THe consequence of which was that it took 5 days to start the first feeble attempts of rescuin the victims .Your president is bragging that it takes no more than two day for it's army to be present on any operational theatre in the world .Why then such a delay for a domestic operation from this bad administration ?Why was nothing prepared at all for this storm ?Here the answers are common knowledge:total indifference and failure from the republicans ,nothing less.
Now these guys are concentrating on throwing mud ,understandably because their program still is nothing more than slogans with no practical implementations .What about health care for instance ?Still nothing more than the silly claims Mihael Moore is a liar,nothing else .
It would always be interesting how people's ideas would change when/if they were actually involved in some of these situations regarding the intricities surrounding abortions/when life actually begins. It's much easier to sit at the computer and spout off what is right and wrong or the best step to take when it doesn't personally involve you!
A concept that you might want to start embracing is that showering the right with blame will not get Obama a mandate from the people. He's going to have to actually discuss an issue, before the election, and I'm sure he will, either when we are not lookiing or if we wait long enough.
He looked bad at this shindig and he really cannot afford to look bad. He may look cute at the Brandenberg gate, but not a single Berliner votes.
One other thing: if you cannot communicate with the peoples of faith in your own nation, why do you think you can do it in another country?
You might as well fall down, because you're already brain dead.
Everytime you eat lettuce, think of the California vegetable fields and E-coli. The workers are not supplied with portapotties. So where do they do their business? One, guess. Enjoy the terrorism of a Mexican suitcase bomb,
eet sheet gringo.
you speak like a fool and you have no credibility. Where's the beef?
..there are three companies working on a totally automated lettuice picker as we speak. Inside of 15 years, this will be almost totally automated.
Who's laughing now, punta?
Me, for at least the next 15 years, crap hat. Enjoy that Botulism on a bun, complete with E-coli. Or would you prefer a succulent Salmonella sandwich?
Bio-terrorism at it's best - suitcase bombs. The Departnment of Homegrown Insecurity and Paranoia is ineffectual in this case.
I repeat, eet sheet gringo.
....if you can read english, you will discover that most of this was all conjecture and these fruits and vegetables were proven not to be the cause. One other thing, 15 years is the LONGEST it will take. Better find another skill, punta.
I always suspected he was unskilled labor.
Ouch...
Let's see now. Machines to harvest. Hmm, what do they run on? Gasoline. OK, let's switch to ethanol from corn for fuel. In either case that head of lettuce will cost about $27.00. Who can afford that? With food sources going to produce fuel to harvest the food, what will the average person eat? Just like you, they will eet sheet, gringo.
Pssst, EesPee, do you want to buy some nice Brickweed? It's good stuff, cured in Paraquat. We also have your little seester, if you want. No? You're into leetle boys? Try your sock puppet,FPP.
That hurt. Not.
Because I don't have a brain.
It's impossible to have a discussion with a zealot. In fact, studies of how core beliefs affect brain activity suggest it might be futile. Having said that, we'd all like to believe that if you present any person with a rational and factual argument, he or she would change his or her position. This is impossible with the likes of SP4, where rationality is as foreign as good sense or knowledge of facts.
This why pseudointellectuals like you, and Sock Puppet, write tripe like the above, because it saves you the embarrassment of having your philosophy run through and denuded by people like us.
Don't believe me? Just try it.
How much of a zealot do you have to be to be so convinced of your own superiority that by just presenting your argument, the holy spirit of your insights will descend upon that person and he will, divinely, agree with you?
AQUSA (Al Qaeda in USA)
We thank our brothers toiling the the fields for this tactic. We have been conducting tests over the past few years. We are ready for a full assault. Our sleeper cells have already infiltrated the processing plants and distribution centers.
Death and bad bowels to the USA(also known as ESE- Excited States of Excretia).
Long Live Osama Bin Laden.
ong Live the Memory of Che Guevera
Not even God kimself would ever dare to mix words with the neocon/Republican'ts. For, not only have they seen the light, they are blinded by it. Hallejuliah, brothers and sisters, Praise be unto the two Gods(Bush/Cheney), and pass the ammunition.
'Everytime you eat lettuce, think of the California vegetable fields and E-coli. '
Yet another reason to keep people like you out.
Your web moniker says it all. That is what you're going to do after another sh*t sandwich. And you can't keep me or us out. You borders are not secure. There are so many holes that Al Qaeda could drive a herd of camels through and not be spotted.
If you're Al Qaeda, I'm Mickey Mantle.
Yup, you just mught be. Mickey is dead and you are brain dead. He's been worm food for 13 years and you have worms crawling around in your head.
'Your web moniker says it all.'
Look, a hand full of pills will cure you of your impotent rage and will make it so you don't have to be the frustrated, pathetic thing that you are. Playing pretend on the internet and lashing out at people who have out done you may feel good for a moment or 2 but sooner or later you are just going to have to crawl back into your own skin. You realize on some level that things aren't going to get better for you, why prolong the pain?
'And you can't keep me or us out.'
I don't blame you for wanting to flee your s*it hole, but in your case we don't have to worry. You aren't going anywhere and you know it.
Have another sh*t sandwich. You must be down a quart after that pile of crap you just spewed.
'Have another sh*t sandwich.'
No thanks, no one wants to eat your brain.
What a bunch of crapola comments about nothing!
For the brainwashed who really believe a doctor is going to stand by and watch a baby die unless it is deemed no more than a vegetable, are sorely lacking.
Shar; this about how Obama voted. What a waste of oxygen he is.
Why don't you do it and set an example for all not to follow? It is obvious that you have done a LOT of thinking about it. Now put it to practice. What's that old saying? Oh yes, 'ladies first'. Go ahead, lady.
'Why don't you do it and set an example for all not to follow? '
I am, I am leading a productive life as something other then SP4's creepy starker and complainer of all things American.
You on the other hand are obviously completely trapped in your depressing dead end, complete failure of a situation. There is a way out... Sleeping pills would work best, wash them down with booze. No one would notice because you probably already reek of decay. It is the only way things will change for you at this point.
to die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come...
Certainly better then the nightmare you are living now, Eh?
It's a good idea not to degenerate discussions into insults and replies to insults .Democracy only works if topics are discussed on a basis of content .Elections equate political propositions for improving your futur .It is already a waste of precious time to have o respond to the ranting of the republican dirty trick internet task force not to be divrted into personal fencing .Anybody something to say about the right to abortion for instance ?
Don't forget that after the elections you will all have to live together .
If you actually had a grasp of American culture and politics, outside of the Clinton Nat'l Broadcasting Co. (CNBC) or the Bolsheviks at the BBC (as if they understood America!), you'd realize we have been successfully picking leaders for 225 years, even if those leaders were, themselves, not successful.
You see, Tonny, we've managed to have representative democracy without herding masses of whole ethnic groups into millimetrically precise death chambers, avoided mass starvation via a corrupt leadership, etc. as opposed to our mother nations, who drove their children here because of it all.
Then we proceeded to rid ourselves of the slavery the europeans instituted for trade reasons, on the battlefield no less, made reparations to the natives, passed legilation to right the wrongs of Jim Crow, all by our lonesome selves, while we still honored our proven method of governing, the model of democracy and freedom the world over.
So, when you look upon the ignorant masses of the west, bear those glaring facts in mind.
My evangelical beliefs:
Barak Obama is a citizen of Indonesia, not the USA.
Barack Obama is not eligible, is unqualified, and totally unfit to run for any political office in the USA.
Barack Obama is an active follower of Islam.
Barack Obama is an islamic fundamentalist terrorist operative who if elected president will proceed to destroy the USA.
Barack Obama is a direct relative of Osama bin Laden, and shares his goal of destroying the USA.
Barack Obama receives his orders from Osama bin Laden.
Barack Obama is a loser, and wants the USA to lose.
I don't care what the facts are, this is what I believe.
overpopulation because ultimately with the high energy demands that most people have now it's the high energy use and food demands and housing demands and water demands that are causing global warming. There are just way too many people and still not enough men and women opting out of child bearing. Christ said it is better to not get married at all so why didn't they discuss that? Overpopulation is potentially the greatest threat to all of us. The only reason to have more kids is to keep 'growing the economy' and it isn't sustainable. Our economic model is broken. Neither party is able to face reality. The best we can hope for is that more people wake up and use more birth control. Having more than 2 children increases overpopulation. Having one or fewer decreases overpopulation.
..we heard all this when the world had 4 billion people in it...
How'd it work out?
The world enjoys the highest standard of living it has ever had. America, Asia, Africa, and Austrailia are sparsely populated nations, with only a fraction of the land mass populated.
Agrculture is subsidized and growing stinted to keep prices high becuae we can far outproduce demand.
There is no energy shortage
We have more diseases cured than at any time in history.
Lifespans are the longest ever.
I think you'd better go look at the facts again. The picture isn't anything like you describe.
you obviously do not live someplace where all you can do all day is hear noise from construction, the freeways, the roads, and breathe the pollution from the refineries and factories and cars and trucks, and live in little 900 square feet condo boxes that are the only housing option left due to overpopulation
it is a nightmare this overcrowding and overheating and overpopulation
I hate it
it stinks and the only reason anyone wants more people is because our economic model is based on usury, which is a sin, or at least it was before it was removed from the Bible
I wish they had talked about how the stock market is based on usury. Every cornerstone of our capitalist system is based on a sin.
Lending money was once considered evil.
And the only thing coming from it is an uninhabitable planet and profits for the richest top 1% of the top 1%. If this is not a moral issue I don't know what is.
SP4 probably likes Ann Coulter and Karl Rove too - he uses the same tactic of always twisting and distorting what others say and calling them names and attacking them
real Christian those republicans aren't they
No, I do not live in a sh-thole, and even if YOU do, everything I said still stands.
Poverty and starvation are political problems and are not predicated on the world's output and liveable land mass. The sooner you embrace this, the sooner you stop enabling those who cause susch things.
As for the other poster, it is typical for Libnazis to blame everything on a Conservative. I particularly like Rove, who's strategy for winning the election this year is absolutely diabolical:
Just let the dems be who they are!
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Obamas voted for baby killing.Aug 17th, 2008 - 05:03:25
Wait until Christian voters hear about his vote to allow doctors to deny care to babies who had survived an attempted abortion. That's right, Obama voted to just allow babies born alive to just die:
Documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an IL state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion - even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion. Obamas legislative actions in 2003 - denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions - were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose.
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