US News
Obama, McCain talk domestic policy, smears in final debate (Roundup)
By Chris Cermak Oct 16, 2008, 5:10 GMT
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama waves as he walks off the stage after the final presidential debate with Republican presidential candidate John McCain at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York, USA, 15 October 2008. US Election Day is less than three weeks away, 04 November 2008. EPA/PETER FOLEY
Washington - In the last television debate of the 20-month US presidential campaign, Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama Wednesday exchanged some of their harshest words to date over tax policy and the increasingly negative tone over the final stretch.
With 20 days before the November 4 general election, the two candidates held an often fast-paced, free-wheeling debate on domestic policy at Hofstra University on Long Island, New York.
Both men said elections were 'tough' but accused the other of bringing down the tone of the campaign.
Obama said '100 per cent' of McCain's television advertisements were negative and argued voters were more interested in economic issues. He complained that McCain had done little to stop smears shouted by supporters at McCain rallies, including 'terrorist' and 'kill him.'
McCain countered that the Obama campaign had spent 'unprecedented' amounts of campaign money on negative ads and challenged Obama to stop smears coming from his own side. The tone 'could have been different' if Obama had agreed to more town hall debates during the summer and fall, McCain said.
In the days before the debate, opinion polls showed Obama's lead over McCain widening across the country as Americans struggled with a faltering US economy amid a massive financial crisis. Opinion surveys have consistently shown an edge for Obama on economic issues.
Both candidates deplored the troubling economic times. They promised to help the middle class and place more focus on the housing price deflation at the heart of the financial turmoil in the United States. Both have also proposed new fiscal stimulus measures to kick-start the US economy.
McCain and Obama battled to humanize the crisis by speaking directly to the troubles of working-class voters. Both more than once tried to win over a budding small-business owner they called 'Joe the plumber.'
Some key differences were drawn on tax policy and free trade.
McCain called a pending free-trade agreement with Colombia a 'no-brainer' that would create jobs in the United States and help a key Latin American ally crack down on drug trafficking.
Obama said he supported free trade but would enshrine environmental and 'human rights' protections for workers - both in the US and abroad - in all of his administration's dealings with trade partners.
During a classic ideological exchange on taxes, McCain said Obama's proposal to raise the taxes on wealthy Americans would result in 'class warfare' and promised not to raise taxes on any Americans.
Obama countered that McCain's plan was skewed toward big business and did little to help middle-class families.
Much of the tempo of the debate was controlled by McCain, and the debate included some nasty exchanges over character issues raised as the campaign enters its final stretch.
McCain accused Obama of not revealing the 'full extent' of his relationship with 'washed-up terrorist' Bill Ayers, a Chicago education professor who was part of a 1960s leftist radical group that bombed federal buildings.
Obama said that he and Ayers served on the board of directors of an education group, and that Ayers has no role in his campaign and would have none in his White House.
The McCain campaign's focus on Ayers 'says more about your campaign than it says about me,' Obama said.
Obama called McCain a 'vigorous supporter' of President George W Bush, following a consistent line of Democratic attacks to link the Republican nominee with a Republican president whose approval ratings have fallen below 30 per cent.
'Senator Obama, I'm not President Bush,' McCain responded. 'If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.'
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Older Talkback
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'Obama said '100 per cent' of McCain's television advertisements were negative and argued voters were more interested in economic issues.'
Obama is a liar. There are examples of positive McCain advertisements at his web page. Here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpyOSLZw8qo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_A53PAxeR8
'He complained that McCain had done little to stop smears shouted by supporters at McCain rallies, including 'terrorist' and 'kill him.''
Obama associates with terrorists and no one shouted 'kill him'.. that is another Obama lie.
SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.
The Scranton Times-Tribune first reported the alleged incident on its Web site Tuesday and then again in its print edition Wednesday. The first story, written by reporter David Singleton, appeared with allegations that while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd and mentioned Oabama’s name a man in the audience shouted “kill him.'
News organizations including ABC, The Associated Press, The Washington Monthly and MSNBC’s Countdown with Keith Olbermann reported the claim, with most attributing the allegations to the Times-Tribune story.
Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.
“I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.
He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton.
Slavoski said more than 20 non-security agents were interviewed Wednesday, from news media to ordinary citizens in attendance at the rally for the Republican vice presidential candidate held at the Riverfront Sports Complex. He said Singleton was the only one to say he heard someone yell “kill him.”
“We have yet to find someone to back up the story,” Slavoski said. “We had people all over and we have yet to find anyone who said they heard it.”
''Senator Obama, I'm not President Bush,' McCain responded. 'If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.''
Obama was too busy helping Rezko steal 4 years ago.
It must have been easy for some of the above posters to find comments stating McCain to be the stronger candidate in the debate....relying on Podhoretz,Buchanan,Limbaugh and a few other neocons that have served Bush well over the past two terms .Why not include Bolton and Cheney ?That 'll make it eminently more clear who really will be pulling the strings if McCain wins the elections)But that is where it stops.Those that have seen the debate know what to think,those that didn't should view it,interesting comparison of facts ,policies ,characters.Then choose,should be easy enough....
Dear fellow Americans:
This is your candidate speaking. I am going to raise spending, cut taxes, and have a good war in Iran as well as Iraq and Afghanistan. I will also cut you checks periodically to keep you happy!
Drink more alcohol, smoke cigarettes and eat plenty! Because I am going to make healthcare prefect: Medicare for all! So, use it or loose it.
Iraq has plenty of oil and that means free gas for you! Every business gets free bailout money too! Give out wild bonuses aplenty and the U.S. government will replenish you with more bonus money!
Elect me and freedom will be yours! Free gas, free healthcare, free checks and if you are still not happy then join me in the M.E. and be free to shoot people!
Yahooo! With the American way anything is possible!
A US teacher(!) was heard to screech 'I mean, his middle name is HUSSEIN! I'm not going to vote for someone whose middle name is HUSSEIN!'
Unbelievable ! No wonder the World outside racist, religiously ruled America regards Americans as uneducated morons, with no understanding of the real World.
Hussein means 'good', by the way.
mt late dads name was Adolph so i suppose he should have been hanged
because of his name. get real
If people are going to get hung up on a name, they aren't capable of voting. I have to hand it to Obama in not coming out more strongly on Palin and her fanatical, hate-mongering speeches. He used good restraint as opposed to the posturing, grimacing, eye rolling that McCain proceeded to execute during the debate. As far as I'm concerned, he came off as a real jerk, and it was difficult to get beyond that to listen to his comments. He constantly states 'I' can do this 'I' know how to do that. 'I' know how to get Osama. 'I' know where he is. I might be BJ, but that is BS!
Top Republican explains why McCain will lose election...
Former Bush strategist Matthew Dowd recently said of McCain:
'He put somebody unqualified on that ballot and he put the country at risk, he knows that.'
I doubt you have any reality in your life. Must be drugged up all the time. McCain was only average, as was Obama--too little---too late! He should have picked someone as his VP that could do more more for the 'normal' American, not just the bible thumpers. Too little---too late!
if we would really want a president who, when meeting with foreign leaders whom he wouldn't agree with, would then do his posturing, eye rolling, smirking like McCain did so well in the debate? It was juvenile at best! I would never be able to take this character seriously. At least what we had to put up with in Bush was his constant smirk. Besides the way McCain presents himself, his policies won't work - he doesn't know any thing about the middle class or what they are going through from his mansions and servants and his wife with her thousands of dollars worth of outfits. He screwed up on the abortion issue and couldn't quit with the mud slinging.....bye bye McCain.
A US teacher(!) was heard to screech 'I mean, his middle name is HUSSEIN! I'm not going to vote for someone whose middle name is HUSSEIN!'
According to Google: 'No results found for 'I mean, his middle name is HUSSEIN! I'm not going to vote for someone whose middle name is HUSSEIN!.'
So I guess that's not true.
'Unbelievable ! No wonder the World outside racist, religiously ruled America regards Americans as uneducated morons, with no understanding of the real World.'
You don't speak for the rest of the world 'Jim' . Indeed, you sound like a real moron.
'Hussein means 'good', by the way.'
Not for the USA.
-----------------------------------------------
Any American who uses his full name is trying to scare voters, his wife charges. But Obama says he understands why Islamic terror group Hamas looks at his middle name and trusts him.
Ditto for his plan to meet with Iran's madman president and other rogue leaders. Obama sees his open-door policy as evidence he will end President Bush's 'cowboy diplomacy.' When Bush slammed that plan Thursday as 'appeasement,' Obama accused him of a 'false political attack.'
It's a legitimate attack, because Obama's kumbaya foreign policy is dangerous. And his name, including the Hussein part, is fair game because Obama has declared it an international advantage.
He can want it both ways, but he can't have it.
The trouble started when Hamas adviser Ahmed Yousef said, 'We like Mr. Obama' and added, 'we hope he wins the election.'
That's an endorsement, plain and simple. When John McCain jumped in, promising to be Hamas' 'worst enemy,' Obama got huffy and accused McCain of 'divisive fear-mongering.'
That's par for the Obama course. Michelle Obama once said anyone using her husband's full name is throwing the 'ultimate fear bomb. When all else fails, be afraid of his name.'
Maybe we should be afraid. Consider what Obama says in an interview in the current Atlantic magazine.
Asked by writer Jeffrey Goldberg if he was 'flummoxed' by the Hamas support, Obama responds no and says: 'It's conceivable that there are those in the Arab world who say to themselves, 'This is a guy who spent some time in the Muslim world, has a middle name of Hussein and appears more worldly and has called for talks with people, and so he's not going to be engaging in the same sort of cowboy diplomacy as George Bush,' and that's something they're hopeful about.'...
Hamas is pledged to destroy Israel in it's charter.
While canvassing neighborhoods in Ohio this Sunday, Barack Obama advised a tax-burdened plumber not to worry about money because under his presidency money will disappear since it will no longer have any meaning anyway. Instead, all Americans will be living off Obama's highly nutritive WealthSpread™ formula that is surprisingly low in effort and is being promoted by a group of leading nutritionists known as the Cook Fringe of the Democrat Party under the brand name 'I Can't Believe It's Not Earned!'
'Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?' the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed 'more and more for fulfilling the American dream.'
'It's not that I want to punish your success,' Obama responded. 'I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.'
'So instead of cutting taxes with a kitchen knife we'll butter it up with wealth and spread it around like we earned it,' the Democratic candidate continued. 'It's a patented foreign blend that is guaranteed to help improve my standing in the polls, but it's made with 100% pure American taxpayer sweat, which once again shows how taxes can be patriotic.'
When asked to clarify how exactly this plan was going to work, Obama, who is currently ahead in the polls, explained that it was 'quite simple: everyone will be contributing according to his abilities and consuming according to his needs, while special observers will be making sure that a worker's contribution does not go above or below the approved list of his abilities. Special distributors will also be making sure that a worker's needs do not exceed the quota based on the availability of the WealthSpread™ formula.'
'And, of course, there will also be watchers who will watch these watchers, and the watchers who will watch those watchers, and so on - leading to a full guaranteed employment for everybody.'
'What's not to vote for?' Obama finished as he was cheered on by a group of supporters wearing blue pins with the Obama logo and the words 'Journalists for Obama.'
When the inquiring plumber, in turn, was confronted with a question whether he would like to be in charge of determining his neighbor's needs and WealthSpread™ rations in his community, he lowered his eyes and admitted in a hushed voice that it sounded like an offer he couldn't refuse.
Obama frequently rails against what he calls an immoral Republican concept of tax breaks that somehow 'trickle down' to the rest of Americans, contrasting it with the beneficial effects his own low-effort WealthSpread formula that he claims has nothing in common with what his opponents label as 'wealth redistribution.'
Socialism: A progressive political system that takes the power away from wealth creators and gives it to wealth distributors. Wealth distributors are typically a class of highly trained government bureaucrats who are being watched by a class of political commissars, who, in turn, are being watched by a class of secret police, all of whom are banded together by shared progressive morals. Because progressive morals are relative by definition, a certain measure of absolute propaganda is necessary to encourage collectivism and discourage counter revolution. Since such propaganda is delivered through mass media, arts, and schools, a degree of ideological monopoly, uniformity, and censorship is also required in those fields. The resulting mass enthusiasm creates a vibrant state-subsidized culture, leading to great economic successes and technological breakthroughs, e.g., North Korea.
@Why wont his wife let you say it then?
What a sad indictment of your mental abilities - 'it isn't on Google', so therefore you believe it can't exist
It was on a BBC comment column this morning. The fact that Google hasn't picked it up means nothing
Now people are down to arguing about Obama's middle name and whether to vote for someone with that name. I guess the candidates could have spared themselves all the campaign money and debating if that's all that's so important!! Maybe they could have just held debates about the credentials and meanings of their names. LOL
'It was on a BBC comment column this morning. The fact that Google hasn't picked it up means nothing'
LOL!!!!!
What a sad indictment of your mental abilities... you believe what you read in rants that are posted on the BBC, let alone the insane leftist drivel that gets posted in their commentary's. Newsflash Jimmy: the biased drivel that gets past the Guardian recruited adolescent intern 'moderator' at the BBC have your say forum isn't a legitimate source of news.
Here, this is from the NY Times:
President Apostate?
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAK (Abridged)
t it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. Senator Obama is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.
As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.
Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.
His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive).
With few exceptions, the jurists of all Sunni and Shiite schools prescribe execution for all adults who leave the faith not under duress; the recommended punishment is beheading at the hands of a cleric, although in recent years there have been both stonings and hangings. (Some may point to cases in which lesser punishments were ordered — as with some Egyptian intellectuals who have been punished for writings that were construed as apostasy — but those were really instances of supposed heresy, not explicitly declared apostasy as in Senator Obama’s case.)
It is true that the criminal codes in most Muslim countries do not mandate execution for apostasy (although a law doing exactly that is pending before Iran’s Parliament and in two Malaysian states). But as a practical matter, in very few Islamic countries do the governments have sufficient authority to resist demands for the punishment of apostates at the hands of religious authorities.
For example, in Iran in 1994 the intervention of Pope John Paul II and others won a Christian convert a last-minute reprieve, but the man was abducted and killed shortly after his release. Likewise, in 2006 in Afghanistan, a Christian convert had to be declared insane to prevent his execution, and he was still forced to flee to Italy.
Because no government is likely to allow the prosecution of a President Obama — not even those of Iran and Saudi Arabia, the only two countries where Islamic religious courts dominate over secular law — another provision of Muslim law is perhaps more relevant: it prohibits punishment for any Muslim who kills any apostate, and effectively prohibits interference with such a killing.
At the very least, that would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards. More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama’s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known — as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad.
That an Obama presidency would cause such complications in our dealings with the Islamic world is not likely to be a major factor with American voters, and the implication is not that it should be. But of all the well-meaning desires projected on Senator Obama, the hope that he would decisively improve relations with the world’s Muslims is the least realistic.
Edward N. Luttwak, a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, is the author of “Strategy: The Logic of War and Peace.”
More Articles in Opinion »
Looked just like he is, old and out of touch. The plumber is unlicensed, owes back taxes and is a long way from owning his own company. Just more typical lies from the right wing.
Obama on the other hand looked just like he is, cool, calm and collected. One who is going to make a change.
McCain continues on his Carl Rove mudslinging, while Obama is concentrating on the issues. McCain's campaign is haphazard and seemingly flip flopping all over the place - very disconnected.
This coming November I will vote for 'THAT ONE!'
You know....the black guy.
Citing Lutwakk is just pointing to yet another neocon fruitcake:quote wikipedia:
addition to his persona as a 'public intellectual,' Luttwak is also an independent intelligence operative who is involved in clandestine activities that include 'field operations, extraditions, arrests, interrogations (never, he insists, using physical violence), military consulting and counter terrorism training for different agencies of the U.S., foreign governments and private interests,' he told Laura Rozen of the weekly Forward newspaper.
Enough said.There seems to be no end to the smear campaign launched by the GOP internet task force.Wielding smear and slan,der as the GOP does continuously,they are destroying the very fabric of your honor and history.
Can toy all even start to imagine what your history book would have looked like if let's say the difference in opinions between your founding fathers had been aired this way ?
Can you imagine reading a text in your history book at school in wgich Thomas Jefferson wouldstate that George Washington's step grandmother is an evil person that nWashignton is unfit to be a president for that matter.
What a sad period for democracy thanks to the GOP.
And this is the sort of 'reliable, representative person', the neocons use to try and indoctrinate people -
it turns out Joe Wurzelbacher isn't a licensed plumber after all. Oh, and his real name is Sam.
The morning after he emerged as the unexpected star of Wednesday evening's US presidential debate, Samuel 'Joe' Wurzelbacher of Holland, Ohio, found himself at the centre of a media frenzy, with reporters camped out on his front lawn and his phone ringing off the hook.
But it wasn't long before the Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics revealed that Wurzelbacher was not a licensed member of their trade.
'That means that he has not completed the training programme necessary for him to sit for a licence test,' said Tony Herrera, market recovery specialist for Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 50 in Toledo, Ohio.
'It's a shame that this guy has ended up in this situation because it seems like he's misrepresented himself - and for that matter the plumbing and pipefitting industry.'
You Europeans can go screw yourselves, you don't need a license to do what joe does. Fix your own messes.
And so called Joe also has $1200 (at least) owing in taxes, so he has obviously gained a lot from the Republican low tax regime
@Joe was right, obama is a socialist
Telling Europe to fix its own messes is a bit ironic when all the current World banking problems have been caused by the US and its Republican greed and lax regulation on letting stupid people take on more debt than they can afford
McCain is a tired, old politician who would be much better in the Senate than as President with his maverickism! This country needs a new direction, and it wouldn't be with him.
Obama:
(1) Knew exactly who and what Mr. Ayers was and is
(2) went forward with the relationship as it probably benefitted him in his Senate run.
The facts are undeniable. No amount of 'I didn't know' will cover for it.
Top Republican explains why McCain will lose election...
Former Bush strategist Matthew Dowd recently said of McCain:
'He put somebody unqualified on that ballot and he put the country at risk, he knows that.'
I am likely among the miles long list of uneducated'YOUNG' voters ' I am 25 and have yet to vote for this very reason. Fear of making a mistake on such a decision of great magnitude, but the last 20 months I have made it my goal to become better informed. I have kept up on the debates and campaigns of each presidential hopeful. Both candidates have their pros and cons. I believe this is a matter of who can be trusted however both candidates have made the truth elastic. Therefore, I am undecided regardless of if I feel McCain basically set the tone and pace of this last debate. I still can't get over the fact he chose an unqualified running mate PALIN. Just cause I am a woman, it does not make me commit to that ticket. But then again Obama is a freshman in the senate hardly experienced. He just up and came out of the word work. I have never heard of him before. I think I would Rather JOE BIDEN be running because he is more like you and I than either candidate. He knows what it is like to feel pain and struggle daily to make ends meet as most of us 'Middle Working Class ' This is all too confusing. At this point Obama has my vote simply because his running mate is qualified.
Pauline
It is me again ..I just had another thought..... Obama is cool calm and collected while McCain is the opposite. hmmmm. I think Obama has my vote.
Obama's tax plan will destroy the Social Security system.
Obama says his income tax plan will lower taxes for 95% of Americans. There is just one problem with this, 40% of Americans already pay no income tax. Obama's response to this is that these people pay Social Security tax. Well, that's not income tax, but a contribution to their retirement plan. So if he wins and implements his tax plan, for the first time in the history of Social Security, 40% of the people who will get retirement benefits will have paid nothing for them. Social Security will then loose all pretext of being a retirement plan, and will become a national welfare program.
This will cause Social Security to lose public support in a massive way. Leave Social Security contributions out of income tax plans. If you take some peoples income taxes to pay others Social Security taxes, Social Security will be destroyed forever.
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Obama got schooledOct 16th, 2008 - 05:25:13
ABC News' George Stephanopoulos: 'I think the fact that John McCain was able to make Joe Wurzelbacher a character in this campaign, I'll bet you we're going to see him in campaign ads starting tomorrow, shows that, why this was his best debate so far. He was able to set the agenda on a lot of issues like taxes, especially with Joe Wurzelbacher.' (ABC News' 'Vote 08: The Final Debate,' 10/15/08)
'HUGE Moment For McCain. Slams Obama For Comparing Him To Bush. VERY Savvy. AND, He Looked Directly At Obama.'
Commentary's John Podhoretz: 'Good zinger from McCain; Obama mentions he wants Warren Buffett to pay more taxes and McCain says we're talking about Joe the Plumber, not Warren Buffett.' (John Podhoretz, 'Warren Buffett Vs. Joe The Plumber,' Commentary's 'Contentions' Blog, www.commentarymagazine.com, 10/15/08)
The Politico's Jonathan Martin: 'John McCain creates an instant headline with some of his firmest language yet to distance himself from President Bush. 'Sen. Obama, I am not President Bush,' McCain said, in a line clearly in his pocket. 'If you wanted to run against President Bush you should have run four years ago. I will take this country in a new direction.'' (Jonathan Martin, 'Your Morning Lede (So Far)' www.politico.com, 10/15/08)
National Review's Jim Geraghty: 'McCain's best line so far: 'Senator Obama, I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.'' (Jim Geraghty, 'If You Wanted To Run Against President Bush, You Should Have Run Four Years Ago,' www.nationalreview.com, 10/15/08)
'I Think He Clearly Won It ... It Was His Best Performance'
MSNBC's Pat Buchanan: 'I do believe that this was John McCain's best campaign. I think he clearly won it on points. It was his best performance. He was intense and ideological and he's appealing to the base, clearly.'(MSNBC's 'Post Debate Analysis,' 10/15/08)
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